(Website Claims..) Iraqi Cilvilians Massacared By American Soldiers (Highly Graphic)

The apparent damage is from small arms fire. There are no helicopter chain gun trails as one would expect.

As far as a crime scene goes its already far beyond contamination. once the bodies are moved and handled it all lab forensics. The bullet holes in the vehicle appear to be more on the level of the AK as far as size. The fact that the bullets were stopped at some angles within the vehicle, indicates it was not the .308 nato round used by the US, which would have gone right through. I suspect it was an insurgent attack, and the person being released may have cooperated, and was set free.

This is clearly a case of propaganda against US forces. The bullet hole and path evidence does not hold up. Check the forensics and the facts. I'm more than happy to shoot down these BS stories with common sense.

I have seen AC-130 footage of the gunner dropping 120mm rounds on unidentified groups of 30+ people. They don't wait anymore to see if people are armed they just kill them, and this type of engagement is encouraged and recommended.
We have all heard the story of the soldier who blew the 10 year old girls head off who was minding her own business on the side of the road because she might have a bomb.
I don't care if the soldiers are "stressed". I don't care if their buddy got blown up right in front of their eyes and now they are on edge.
NOTHING permits the killing of the innocent.
Remember Nuremberg? They decided that "I was just following orders" WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!
Well over a million Iraqi civilians are dead since the beginning of Gulf War 1.
It is a genocide.
So stories like this, whether this particular one is true or not, happen on a daily basis and the civilian body count continues to rise.

(Please do not assume that I lack empathy for the soldiers I know they are just ignorant pawns who, like many of us, fell for propaganda)

[edit on 30-6-2008 by Trauma]

Another thing I have to say...

Its very odd how this Post quickly goes to a debate of whether or not the story that comes with it is true or not, if USA did it or not, large arms or small arms.

Its obvious to anyone who knows even a minimum amount about fire arms and the type of long range artillery on US Helicopters that something about the story has been lost in translation.

That being said though, I think what the OP and what the true point of this thread should be is that no matter whoever did this, no matter whenever it was done. This is a event that happens all the time over there in the war..I heard a soldier say they other day(on last episode of 60mins for those who saw) that they were finding 500 bodys A WEEK while on patrol with holes in the back of there heads. Now he says its better there down to 200 a week.

No. Something is dead wrong over there and it stinks to high heaven. To me it is all the more worse knowing we are basically supposed to be in charge there. Lets not forget this is not a war in the sense that we know and think of wars. Like Shock and Awe and the opening days of the first gulf war. Or like the Veitnam war, or like the world war two. Where there were two super powers having multiple battles on daily basis with high body counts. No. This is us over there practicing down to a science how to occupy and defend our bases for a long time to come. Running endless patrols, and protecting payloads and convoys.

In this case though no matter what the story is..it shouldnt be happening there its terrible and MSM should show us all the footage so we have all the information..Instead of always having to goto ATS

Originally posted by jhill76

As the two car convoy was waiting nearby, an American helicopter nearby opened fire on the vehicles. As the vehicles were hit, the drivers attempted to seek cover, but both vehicles were repeatedly shot and disabled. The helicopter landed but instead of assisting those shot and needing medical help, the American soldiers killed any survivors and then wrote numbers on the foreheads of some. Several children including a young girls body are clearly visible, and the wounds suffered by the men are horrific. The vehicle is clearly shot with many rounds and the seats and road is covered with blood. Iraqi police were called to the scene to remove the bodies, and some video footage was taken. It is clear that these people were unarmed civilians.

American troops did eventually enter the house where over 50 Iraqis were gathered for the homecoming party, and the soldiers proceeded to destroy furniture and belongings as they conducted their search. No one in the house was harmed.

Ok, so which is it?

Are they:

1. Vicious Killers who just randomly kill women, children and mutilate bodies
OR
2. Furniture smashers

?? Seriously? Could they be both? Pick and choose? Today I'll kill a 4 year old, but tomorrow.. ah yes.. tomorrow, I'll bust up a Hutch or two.

I am also someone VERY familiar with small and large caliber weapons...specifically those used on aircraft...after reviewing the video, it's painfully aparent that the rounds came from a medium calibur weapon (7.62) more than likely...if an Apache with it's Chaingun had opened up on these vehicles, there wouldn't be a whole lot left to examine. For the sake or argument, lets say it was a Blackhawk (The OP stated in the story that troops disembarked...that would lead me to believe the helo was carrying troops) A 7.62 helo-mounted machine gun would've been the likely weapon used...but the angle and location of the bullet holes clearly show impacts from the side, front and rear...not the top (Although there were a couple...but NOTHING like I've seen from other pictures and real life). As for the "Fog" of war, it's true...been there...done that...but in hind note, it's VERY important that I get this word out clearly and loudly. I've worked for over 6 years in an Air Operations Center supporting both fronts...what alot of people do not realize is the hoops that we must go through to strike a target...one of the first teams to get the target list is the JAG (That's right...the lawyers...) we scutinize every detail of a targets area (Schools, Mosques, etc)...if there are targets with these facilities near by, we simply WILL NOT strike them...also goes for other things as well...and if you think the bad guys DO NOT know this, then you are either stupid or crazy...sure, we DO strike these targets when in close proximity to thses facilities, but ONLY after going through about 5 layers of BS and finally a generals approval...we take the protection of civilians VERY seriously...but unfortunately some DO get hurt or worse...and trust me...we ALL feel badly about it...but these A-Holes that are fighting us do so from inside mosques, schools, etc...knowing we are VERY hesitant to hit them with air power...so now ya have to send in the Army and Marine bubbahs...and when ya got lead flying all over the place, anything and anyone can get hit by that "Golden BB". Just think of this...this is how far we've come since even Vietnam...let alone the carpet bombing days of WWII...what used to take literally 100's of planes to take out one target (Say the Schweinfort BB Plant in Germany)...it take ONLY 1 or 2 now with the precision guided munitions we have today...are they accurate ALL of the time...no...but a 98.8%, 20 Meter strike radius is DAMN GOOD!!! Or if you'd like...we can line up a couple of squadrons of B-52's and do a Linebacker style carpet bombing of the entire place...there wouldn't be enough left to sift through, let alone give back to these people...who, BTW, are VERY kind and giving...You NEVER hear about the good things going on over there...just the VERY occasional bad or possibly bad ones...as for teh poster with teh Navy SeaBee buddy, I doubt VERY seriously it was like that...he probably was just acting with bravado...because those of us who have seen war and death up close....DO NOT come home to brag about it...I still have nightmares and images...but those are MY demons I have to deal with...and I will...but WILL NOT talk abou them to friends or family....that's just the way it is...My Grandfather even to his death bed, VERY rarely talked about WWII nor has my uncle from Vietnam...see the clue...?

Originally posted by Trauma
I have seen AC-130 footage of the gunner dropping 120mm rounds on unidentified groups of 30+ people. They don't wait anymore to see if people are armed they just kill them, and this type of engagement is encouraged and recommended.
[edit on 30-6-2008 by Trauma]

What sick source are you getting this from?

I'd like to see some of that footage, as well as something 'recommending' the wholesale slaughter of civilians.

I went to Afghanistan once and Iraq twice, and saw firsthand a total of four incidents with civilians that could have been avoided. In all but one, unfortunately the Marine was justified. In that last one, you know what happened to him? He got court-martialed, busted down to private and shipped off to a brig to wait for transport home at the end of his tour. On top of that, we had so much heat on us our liberty was completely secured to the base. If we had friends we'd made outside the perimeter, well they'd just have to do without our gifts for a while.

There's a big goddamn difference between opening fire into a crowd of civilians and shooting a kid approaching your gate without stopping, because not a week ago some sick bastard stuffed some poor little girl with explosives and sent her to the Americans' patrol trucks to get blown up.
In this case the Marine fired a warning shot in front of the kid and gravel got in his face. Turns out his sister was working on our base, he just didn't know to approach us the right way. The guy that almost shot that kid was a wreck for weeks.

You guys want to talk about what changes soldiers? There's your drugs and baby-killing mentality.

So tell me, please. What's your source. Youtube? Foxnews? Reuters?

uh that was pretty much the most graphic footage I've seen. I kept pulling my head back cuz he was zooming in to close. I couldn't look. Dam man. Why he have to zoom in like that sheesh.

reply to post by jhill76


If this is what we've become, then America deserves to die a miserable death.
Again if our soldiers are guilty of this, one can find no excuse for this. I've been in war, and though this sort of thing did happen in Vietnam, I don't feel that it happened on the scale of what's happening in Iraq.
Obviously, if we're doing this on a large scale, is it to wipe out the people of Iraq so that we can just take the oil?

reply to post by Agit8dChop


agreed , USa is a bunch of digustimg dangerous and genocidal imperialists out for world domination

Originally posted by Trauma
I have seen AC-130 footage of the gunner dropping 120mm rounds on unidentified groups of 30+ people. They don't wait anymore to see if people are armed they just kill them, and this type of engagement is encouraged and recommended.
We have all heard the story of the soldier who blew the 10 year old girls head off who was minding her own business on the side of the road because she might have a bomb.
I don't care if the soldiers are "stressed". I don't care if their buddy got blown up right in front of their eyes and now they are on edge.
NOTHING permits the killing of the innocent.
Remember Nuremberg? They decided that "I was just following orders" WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!
Well over a million Iraqi civilians are dead since the beginning of Gulf War 1.
It is a genocide.
So stories like this, whether this particular one is true or not, happen on a daily basis and the civilian body count continues to rise.

(Please do not assume that I lack empathy for the soldiers I know they are just ignorant pawns who, like many of us, fell for propaganda)

[edit on 30-6-2008 by Trauma]

uhhh, care to PROVE anything you are saying, or are we just supposed to take your word for it?

Originally posted by manson_322
reply to post by Agit8dChop

 

agreed , USa is a bunch of digustimg dangerous and genocidal imperialists out for world domination

and your just a ignorant as the person you quoted. GO YOU!!!!!!

Another "joke" post condeming the USA.

This video is as real as the "alien autopsey" video of several years ago.

This is just more evidence that ATS is killing ATS.

Those bodies don't look real to me. And I think I saw a bottle of heinz ketsup in some ones pocket.....

reply to post by SRTkid86


lol, prove it ,
anyways,
USA is resp for death of millions across latin america and the third world ,

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

thank God, that is still freedom in other places of the world from genocidal american imperialism

Altogether, the terrorist U.S. government and military have directly slaughtered literally millions of civilian people in the Philippines, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, Russia (the civil war, 1918-1920), Japan, France, Germany, Korea, Thailand, Indonesia, Panama, Grenada, Libya, Lebanon, Iraq, Sudan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Bosnia and Yugoslavia.

In addition, the terrorist U.S. military and CIA have trained, armed, funded, provided intelligence and direct military support for fascist puppet-regimes and right-wing death-squads around the world.

America's servant-states have carried out appallingly vicious campaigns of state terrorism. With the direct support of the U.S. government they have committed the torture and genocide of additional millions of helpless, civilian people in Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras, Haiti, Mexico, Cuba, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Chile, Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, Brazil, China, the Philippines, East Timor, Indonesia, the Congo, Angola, Zaire, Mozambique, Palestine, Israel, Turkey, Greece, Cyprus, Iraq, Pakistan and Iran.
www.intellnet.org...

Originally posted by manson_322
reply to post by Agit8dChop

 

agreed , USa is a bunch of digustimg dangerous and genocidal imperialists out for world domination

Way to stereotype, there Hitler. Guess if you had your way you would be sticking all of us Americans into concentration camps and ovens and gas rooms, huh?

reply to post by manson_322


yea, because youtube videos and a excerpt from a site that labels america as a terrorist orangization is credible, try again..

i don't believe anything on youtube, it's a webiste where anyone can load whatever garbage they wnat on there without ever having to provide hard evidence of their claims. there is nothing to ensure that the information you are getting on there is anything more than the opinion and spin of the poster of the video

a website that calls the american gov't a terrorist organization is something to disregard as well, as it is ovious it's a biased source that will put a spin on anything bad that happens to try and track it back to the US having something to do with all the bad in the world.

believe what you want, but what you posted is not what i would call hard verifiable and credible evidence

does the US do bad things sometimes? yes, we do... after all we are only human and occasionally that gets the best of us. do we condone the killing of innocents? negative.

reply to post by sos37


nope, if i had my my way , i would have Bush and the military and mercenaries tried in the Hague international court for the massive war crimes against humanity that USA has performed , and make it pay trillions of dollars to whose nations which you committed genocide,rape looting on in the past 200 years .

also , would disarm the USA of its nukes , and transfer the control of USA to Russia ,India and China under UN supervision and control ,

reply to post by SRTkid86


except that the videos are a investigative doumentary of the famed journalist John Pilger documentary 'War on democracy '

by the way, intellnet.org is website that contains the chronological events of US invasions,Genocides and destruction performed by USA

a website that calls the american gov't a terrorist organization is something to disregard as well, as it is ovious it's a biased source that will put a spin on anything bad that happens to try and track it back to the US having something to do with all the bad in the world.

lol, USA sponsored death squads in latin america and islamic terror in 80's

lol, USA is state sponsor of terror

believe what you want, but what you posted is not what i would call hard verifiable and credible evidence

and you have no evidence at all...to show that USA has not performed grievous war crimes against humanity

[edit on 30-6-2008 by manson_322]

[edit on 30-6-2008 by manson_322]

Does it matter who killed them, its the United States governments fault for occupying that country,for BS reasons. Two million dead because untied states, has become a bitch hand of the imperial conquest for the NWO. I laugh at some of you people trying to justify this as fog of war

Please sir, educate this ignorant fool on how we can stop the bad men without losing people.

Those bodies are not fake the least bit. I can understand how people who have only seen gorey death on movies and video games would not want to believe this was real, but they are quite very real dead people.

I am more inclined to believe that they were victims of some sectarian violence though. The story does not match up the clearly evident attack scene the least bit. Had these vehicles been attacked by airborne units, they would have been quite mangled. Not only that, but you probably would not have been able to identify the victims using their faces, because they would have been destroyed completely.

There are head wounds that are clearly visible from small arms. A mounted gun from a helicopter would need only one bullet to completely destroy the head.

I am sorry to see that this innocent family was cut down by their own people though, because our units do not ambush Iraqis and run off. Whether it was intentional or accidental, we have regulations to follow and would have remained present at the scene until local forces were able to secure the scene. If that was the case however, no doubt the video would have been rolling at the time.

I believe it is safe to rule out coalition forces, or at least American. I cannot vouch for Albania, Armenia, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Mongolia, Poland, Romania, South Korea, or UK procedures and behavior.