(Website Claims..) Iraqi Cilvilians Massacared By American Soldiers (Highly Graphic)

Hello,

At what point do you guys think it will be OK to use the term "US sympathizers", much like the term "nazi sympathizers" was used? Are we far away from that? I ask this seriously. I wonder how much more this country has to do in order for its citizens to wake up and realize just how bad things are, just how criminally insane the current administration is.

- Invasion of sovereign nation, based on lies (proven)
- Slaughter of civilians (hundreds of thousands)
- Open torture of detainees
- Well known propaganda programs
- A possible new war, with Iran

What I don't get is that there are ample domestic indicators that clearly demonstrate that things are WAY OFF TRACK. Not slightly, but WAY off track.

- Mortgage collapse
- Credit Bubble
- Worsening economy / jobs
- Devaluation of the dollar
- Oil prices
- Increasing gap between rich and poor
- Healthcare
- Education
- Loss of rights and freedoms
- Scientific suppression / censorship
- Increase in racial tensions

All the major indicators say that something is terribly wrong.

There is every indication in the world that the leaders of the US are all as corrupt as they come. These guys lie, cheat and steal to meet their goals. And this is proven. There are credible whistleblowers. There are news articles *every week* that unearth new skeletons, talk about censored reports, manipulated scientific data, political hirings and firings, outright fraud .. the list goes on. Hell, there are BOOKS on the subject.

I am all for giving people the benefit of the doubt, but even the most ardent supporter of US policy has GOT to admit that there is a LOT of smoke, way too much for there to be no fire. At this point, if people still cling to the concept that the US is "doing good", in ANY way, shape or form, they probably cannot be convinced, because it has nothing to do with logic at this point.

Anyways .. I will not accomplish much by posting this. To many I will be preaching to the choir. To US-sympathizers, this will just be inflammatory. I just felt the need to put this in writing.

Hello,

At what point do you guys think it will be OK to use the term "US sympathizers", much like the term "nazi sympathizers" was used? Are we far away from that? I ask this seriously. I wonder how much more this country has to do in order for its citizens to wake up and realize just how bad things are, just how criminally insane the current administration is.

- Invasion of sovereign nation, based on lies (proven)
- Slaughter of civilians (hundreds of thousands)
- Open torture of detainees
- Well known propaganda programs
- A possible new war, with Iran

What I don't get is that there are ample domestic indicators that clearly demonstrate that things are WAY OFF TRACK. Not slightly, but WAY off track.

- Mortgage collapse
- Credit Bubble
- Worsening economy / jobs
- Devaluation of the dollar
- Oil prices
- Increasing gap between rich and poor
- Healthcare
- Education
- Loss of rights and freedoms
- Scientific suppression / censorship
- Increase in racial tensions

All the major indicators say that something is terribly wrong.

There is every indication in the world that the leaders of the US are all as corrupt as they come. These guys lie, cheat and steal to meet their goals. And this is proven. There are credible whistleblowers. There are news articles *every week* that unearth new skeletons, talk about censored reports, manipulated scientific data, political hirings and firings, outright fraud .. the list goes on. Hell, there are BOOKS on the subject.

I am all for giving people the benefit of the doubt, but even the most ardent supporter of US policy has GOT to admit that there is a LOT of smoke, way too much for there to be no fire. At this point, if people still cling to the concept that the US is "doing good", in ANY way, shape or form, they probably cannot be convinced, because it has nothing to do with logic at this point.

Anyways .. I will not accomplish much by posting this. To many I will be preaching to the choir. To US-sympathizers, this will just be inflammatory. I just felt the need to put this in writing.

reply to post by crmanager

You are guilty of lible and slander of Americans fighting in Iraq.

Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!! I love how you guys take a word, and ride it like a pony!!! You really are hilarious. YEE Haw......Freedoms on the march!

Originally posted by crmanager
reply to post by jhill76


"I'll tell you whois guilty... You.

You are guilty of lible and slander of Americans fighting in Iraq. As you stated, you just wanted people to know where you stand. We get it. You stand against the people fighting to protect you."





Yeah...ok?
protecting us....fighting for us?

Did somebody from iraq do something to uk/usa?
I didn't see anything about it if they did....must have missed that.

More than a million people protested this war in the uk in a march at hyde park.
It is the most illegal and challenged war in along time and to say they are fighting for us or me or anyone over in the west is ridiculous.

It is for profit and resources and that's it.
they couldn't get bin laden (who wasn't responsible for 9/11 either) in Afghanistan, so they thought, let's get our old pal saddam.
He's evil and we'll get the backing of the people.

While i respect and admire the bravery of all our troops all over the world in battle.....i strongly condemn the reasons they are there(iraq/afghanistan) and the real perps in this saga....ie; uk/us governments.

It seems in america if you are against the iraq war, you are anti-american or anti-troops or something.

that kind of mentality helps nobody.

[edit on 30/6/08 by blupblup]

reply to post by jhill76

Originally posted by Grafilthy
reply to post by sos37

 

The OP should be BANNED by the moderators for posting hate-filled topics without evidence, and using such a sensationalist and unfounded subject line.

For someone who is so "patriotic" you are having a tough time understanding the first amendment. So in the spirit of denying your ignorance....

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Hope this helps.
You don't wanna sound un-American do you?

Hey genius, last time I looked Congress didn't control this website. The first amendment says Congress won't make any law abridging that right. As soon as Congress joins the ATS moderator staff then you might have a point. Your first amendment rights are precluded by the TOS on websites like this one, Einstein.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


By Agit8dChop
"I believe that sort of thing goes on a hell of a lot more than we're told.
And to immediately assume that in this case, its American's being innocent isnt the right way."

Well you said it, that is what you believe, so for you to assume, without any evidence of what happened that Americans are guilty is your thing, this is not a new position for you, it is the stance that you hardline on. It is not hard to see that no matter wheather there is proof to the contrary or no proof at all you believe what you believe and youll argue for it being the bad Americans.

By Agit8dChop
"here's different assumptions that could be made, but to be just and fair one has to accept that American's blatantly killing for fun/anger"

Ok so to be just I have to take the authors word for it, You are telling everybody else what option and or assumption they need to accept. Who are you? In fact anybody that would look at these pics and make assumptions and state them as fact, just on what is conveinant for them is so severely biased prima facie, that I dont think anybody could objectively believe anything that, that person had to say.

Could it have been American troops, sure it could have been any number of people. Even if it were American troops the amount of variables is inconceivable based on the evidence that we have to judge.

Look at these pics and clear your mind of the unsupported authors story, then tell me what happened ....you cant because there is nothing other then the fact that these people were killed.

reply to post by sos37

Hey genius, last time I looked Congress didn't control this website. The first amendment says Congress won't make any law abridging that right. As soon as Congress joins the ATS moderator staff then you might have a point. Your first amendment rights are precluded by the TOS on websites like this one, Einstein.

I have a better idea.

Why don't we make you a mod.....that way any time you want to wave your flag at someones post you misunderstand you can ban them!

Or you can move to China!!
It's already like that there.
Einstein.

So why don't enemy leaders, and us leaders form a meeting and talk about how they can stop the war....if they demand, give them...as long as its not ridiculous. I mean it seems to me they just want to kill the entire population.
Am I wrong here? is there no one, or no leader they can negotiate with? are these just hateful people with bombs attached to themselves and snipers, just killing, all on a rampage?

[edit on 30-6-2008 by CommanderSinclair]

reply to post by Agit8dChop

By Agit8dChop
1. Iraqi's have experienced so much death/destruction, why on earth would they want to just kill each other

You will have to take that up with them, but it is being done everyday and while your speaking of facts, that is one. Without trying to be smart I will help you on this question, First of all when Saddam was in power the #e vs. Sunni thing was a big deal and after Saddams removal there was a whole revenge and get even motive which played out, now not so much, but it still exists. Second, there is already a move by different factions to control provinces, it is just not the Insurgents vs Americans. Insurgent factions have very diff beliefs, some are dispalced soldiers from the war that see other factions, including Al Qaida as outsiders do not reflect their Countries best interest, and with in those factions Shiites do not want Sunni factions to take a strong suit. Also there are the in place government troops getting killed and bombed and their families getting killed for taking place, in what as viewed as their cooperation with an occupier of their Country. If you feel the need to do some research you can find that the amount of factions his fairly high and all have diff agendas, so that will help you with your first question.

By Agit8dChop
2. Americans seem to be the only ones driving around aimlessly shooting guns, dropping bombs and blaming everyone else.

Are you kidding me, obviously you havent been there. Seems to be is another way of you saying, IMO that is what is happening. Your entitled to your opinion, but it is very short sighted

BY Agit8dChop
"There's a chance americans did this.... deal with that fact."

Yep, there is also a chance it could of been any number of factions, Al Qaida, Opposing religious groups, Family rivalry, Someone who thought they were any number of the already above mentioned, revenge, one of the members had committed a crime, Iraqi Troops, Iranian Agents, somebody who thought they were someone else or the chance they could have just been killed by someone so they could say Americans did it. Yes, it could have been Americans and maybe they did just because they are blood thirsty, drugged up monsters who like killing women and children and stomp around with American colonization and oil running through their imperialist veins (sarcastic) BUT THERE IS NO PROOF WHAT HAPPENED HERE, that is REALLY THE ONLY FACT. That is what you need to accept is that this is all just conjecture and speculation. The only thing you are offering is your severely biased opinion and thats it.

i only have a few question's....

ps yeah war suck's ..and people die sometimes that have no reason to.

But why are all the victim's wearing white?

and the other i read where it say's they was warned a raid was going on...and they still said screw it.
that don;t add up to me...i wouldn't take my kid's outside if they said WAIT....the army is on that road today shooting Taliban....why cause i would have had more respect for my kids as to take them near the gunfire.

with that said again...war sucks period

and 3rd kid's are always used in war's to shoot soldier's Vietnam Korea you name it.
so unless you got proof the kid's wasn't packing heat....cause they was all wearing white..for some reason...in a area they was warned to stay away from...no adult with good intention's are going to take there kid's into a warzone....and apparently this one did
they was probably mistaking for Taliban ..for being where they was told to be warned of.

just a assumption ...

Originally posted by Grafilthy
reply to post by sos37

 

Hey genius, last time I looked Congress didn't control this website. The first amendment says Congress won't make any law abridging that right. As soon as Congress joins the ATS moderator staff then you might have a point. Your first amendment rights are precluded by the TOS on websites like this one, Einstein.

I have a better idea.

Why don't we make you a mod.....that way any time you want to wave your flag at someones post you misunderstand you can ban them!

Or you can move to China!!
It's already like that there.
Einstein.

A post I misunderstand? The content AND the subject line speak for themselves. What, are you really going to try and spin this like I don't know how to read? I don't know what I'm talking about? Like the OP wasn't drawing conclusions based on a video that someone posted somewhere? It's quite clear the OP was blaming U.S. forces for the bloodshed even though there is NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE CLAIM.

Why don't you go back and read the post again and then come back down to reality? Afterward we can get your take on this, situation.

Oh that's right, you have no wiggle room here because you know I'm right. All you can do is scream that someone's constitutional rights are being violated where they clearly do not apply. Way to try and spin the situation, genius. I'll still clap for you though if you know any other tricks like sitting up or barking.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


my friend Larry just got back from Iraq, he was a Navy SeaBee. He would beg to differ from everything you say. He's been there, and he says it's pretty much just kill whatever you want whenever.

Originally posted by OhZone
This is the sorry thing about war. The purpose of war is to kill people and break things.
These guys are trained to kill, and so that is what they do. Everyone not them is the enemy, so kill it.

I cannot condemn them for this. Add to their training, the psychoactive drugs that they are given. They are not the same men who got on the transport ships, and many of them are not the same when they come back. Many of them will never be the same.

I know this generation has forgotten that there are international legal supposed to be binding, I man oh man I wish they had REAL TEETH, laws regarding war, which involves not targeting civilians.

I know a little something about the effects of small and large caliber damage to vehicles. The damage observed on the video appears to be consistant with small arms fire from close range and from different angles.
Note that there is very little weapons damage on the hoods, tops and trunks themselves. The shots were all fired into the side of the vehicle and through the front and rear wind shields.

I find it very odd that there is so little damage to the top portions of both vehicles considering that they were fired on from the air. Even a stabalised gun has a large drop pattern. Weapons damage would be apparent in these areas. The OP states that the vehicles were immobalised from the air. It also doesn't appear that there is any heavy caliber damage to the cars.

I can't see it. There is something missing here.

Answer me this.
1. What kind of helicopter fired on the vehicles?
2. What type of weapons were used to immobalise the cars?

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Of course you didn't see any US troops.

Don't you see the scheme.

Poster A posts a video from an enemy website that claims that the poor victims were killed by the evil, drugged, US soldiers.

Then, without any scrutiny whatsoever, Posters B, C, D, E... chime in with their armchair psychology and personal anecdotes that have no connection to the event in question, but are meant to affirm without question that indeed American service members are poor, confused fools who kill indiscriminately and agonize over it all later among themselves and a few close friends.

It's a shame to see our website used in such a shameless manner.

This is basically it. Some guy posted a propaganda video, with no proof that it was connected to the United States in any way, and then all the...hey, I can say it...sheeple, went along with how it was done by American soldiers, even though there was no proof.

Originally posted by palg1
I know a little something about the effects of small and large caliber damage to vehicles. The damage observed on the video appears to be consistant with small arms fire from close range and from different angles.
Note that there is very little weapons damage on the hoods, tops and trunks themselves. The shots were all fired into the side of the vehicle and through the front and rear wind shields.

I find it very odd that there is so little damage to the top portions of both vehicles considering that they were fired on from the air. Even a stabalised gun has a large drop pattern. Weapons damage would be apparent in these areas. The OP states that the vehicles were immobalised from the air. It also doesn't appear that there is any heavy caliber damage to the cars.

I can't see it. There is something missing here.

Answer me this.
1. What kind of helicopter fired on the vehicles?
2. What type of weapons were used to immobalise the cars?

I know a lot of nothing about the effects of firearms on vehicles, but I did expect far more damage on the top of the vehicle, as you said. If you look at it from the side, you can see some holes, which makes me think of small arms.

Basically, I'm repeating what you said. Sorry.

reply to post by jhill76


The thing is stuff like this is happening all the time in Iraq, very few incidents are even reported.

SAD==>

reply to post by OhZone

"Add to their training, the psychoactive drugs that they are given. They are not the same men who got on the transport ships, and many of them are not the same when they come back. Many of them will never be the same."

People would be amazed to learn the capability of the government when it comes to brainwashing and reprogramming of the mind including erasing memories!


[edit on 30-6-2008 by Alien_Question]

reply to post by Agit8dChop


Exactly Chop. Bottom line, OP and Grady is that we will never be shown in MSM here or on you tube or LL for that matter because americans can never believe that that is going on over there. They must only be made to know that people we kill are guilty insurgents and if iraqi citizens are killed by us(USA) the insurgents did it and said we did, or they used them as shields/weapon and we had to.

Originally posted by palg1
The damage observed on the video appears to be consistant with small arms fire from close range and from different angles.
Note that there is very little weapons damage on the hoods, tops and trunks themselves. The shots were all fired into the side of the vehicle and through the front and rear wind shields.

I find it very odd that there is so little damage to the top portions of both vehicles considering that they were fired on from the air. Even a stabalised gun has a large drop pattern. Weapons damage would be apparent in these areas. The OP states that the vehicles were immobalised from the air. It also doesn't appear that there is any heavy caliber damage to the cars.

I can't see it. There is something missing here.

Yeah, the helicopters. I agree completely, these vehicles weren't immobilized by aircraft fire. Somebody's trolling for reactions, or just regurgitating propaganda as he finds it. Either way, a waste of time and brain cells.