reply to post by bruxfain
Well I agree it may be a rope a dope and I don't like it but it sounds about right...... If Obama wins and things get ugly you can bet your last can
of beans he will get the blame for it. That's how it goes in politics and I would't put it past those in power to screw the guy and by extension
black America... They think they have it bad now? Just wait until this goes down...
Btw... You won't have to worry about "muslim" terriosm if things get bad. You will have some good old fashion FEMA style terriosm to deal with when
the fhit hits the san...
Global Economic Crash Late July!, page 8
privacy
reply posted on 19-6-2008 @ 09:16 PM by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by WyrdeOne
some of you have said to buy gold. Good thinking, but silver is a much, much better idea. lets say you want to barter for a chicken. have fun getting change for that 1 oz gold coin.
1 oz of gold is worth around 50oz of silver, much easier to make change with.
read the forums at www.kitco.com to learn all the fundamentals about why buying silver bullion is better than gold.
1 last thing - don't forget how gold was confiscated from 1935 to 1975 and was basically illegal to use. Silver has never been confiscated.
some of you have said to buy gold. Good thinking, but silver is a much, much better idea. lets say you want to barter for a chicken. have fun getting change for that 1 oz gold coin.
1 oz of gold is worth around 50oz of silver, much easier to make change with.
read the forums at www.kitco.com to learn all the fundamentals about why buying silver bullion is better than gold.
1 last thing - don't forget how gold was confiscated from 1935 to 1975 and was basically illegal to use. Silver has never been confiscated.
reply posted on 19-6-2008 @ 09:39 PM by traderonwallst
reply to post by Agit8dChop
Alright...lets get one thing straight. The financial sector is beat up granted, but a lot of those other sectors everyone points out is down and their losses being masked by the rise in oil stocks are down because of the cost of oil. So...now if we see a pull back in oil stocks due to a decline in oil we will not see a melt down in the markets. Those beat up stock (not financials) will gradually rise as oil comes down and costs go lower. Stop screaming that the markets are already lower without the run up in oil stocks. Take the financials out of the picture and we are going through cycles. Cycles we have seen over and over again in these markets. Oil price goes up.......airlines go down. Gas prices go up.....retailers go down.... Am I the only one out there making money in these markets? Everyone has been complaining about the rising price of oil and food costs. have any of you invested in these stocks?
AGU, MOS, TNH, POT.....these agriculture stocks are strong as hell. All kinds of oil plays are working. natural gas stocks too.
Stop all your complaining and do something for yourself. You don;t need a lot of money, so I don;t want to hear that. Got $500???? If you had bought 100 shares of FPP recently you could have doubled your money. Want another oil play?? MXC.... PDO...CLR.....I could go on for an hour. But last time I started naming companies or stocks I was accused of touting my book and was banned. Please don;t ban me again.
All I am saying is as bad as things are....do a little homework and make things work for you...There are 2 sides to every trade.....For every winner there is a loser..... You can't be a winner if you don;t play the game.... Research..Research...research....and you won't be a loser. Let your winners run and cut losses!!! Cliches? Yes, but oh so true.
When there is blood in the streets BUY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All the panic selling has happened. I am not saying the panic has happened already I am just using another cliche to prove my point.
Do I see a market sell off happening?? I sure hope so. We can't go up until we have one. Again cycles.... You can not go back up and set new highs until old money is taken out. We have a lot of support in the 11,500 - 12,000 on the DOW ... what does that mean??? lots of supply here. If we break below certain points without demand for stock, selling will accelerate and new lows will be put in. Once we reach a bottom, expect us to stay there. You have to see accumulation of stocks taking place in order to put a new floor in. Once this floor is in place the markets will go up again.
1 think you need to know is economics 101. Supply and demand.... You might not know but that what the stock market is all about... If there is not enough supply or demand is strong prices go higher. Too much supply or not enough demand and we go lower. It really is that simple. Do you really think their is an intrinsic value for a stock??? Hell no.. When valuing a stock you look at where the price could go over time based on earnings power and dividends, or thats what they teach you in school. Know what?? It's bull crap. If people want stock in a company they are willing to buy up the stock at higher and higher prices. Expectations of performance be damned. If people are buying, I want in....that the mentality.... that's how supply and demand works here. The stock market is a game. I have learned that over time. Get good at the game and you come out ahead. When trading you learn, be early in and out even faster.
This is your lesson for the day and sorry if I went off topic, but since the OP's article is about what some idiot at RBS is saying.....lets look at RBS's track record!! Recently they are scraping the bottom of the barrel and I have been using them as sort of a "do what ever they say not to do".
For full disclosure.......still long agriculture stocks, still long some oil stocks, still short financials (but have been long and short them regularly since the Bear Sterns collapse, ran them up and ran them down < see there really is 2 sides to every market>). Long the US$ since the last week of April and currently short the Euro.
[edit on 19-6-2008 by traderonwallst]
[edit on 19-6-2008 by traderonwallst]
Alright...lets get one thing straight. The financial sector is beat up granted, but a lot of those other sectors everyone points out is down and their losses being masked by the rise in oil stocks are down because of the cost of oil. So...now if we see a pull back in oil stocks due to a decline in oil we will not see a melt down in the markets. Those beat up stock (not financials) will gradually rise as oil comes down and costs go lower. Stop screaming that the markets are already lower without the run up in oil stocks. Take the financials out of the picture and we are going through cycles. Cycles we have seen over and over again in these markets. Oil price goes up.......airlines go down. Gas prices go up.....retailers go down.... Am I the only one out there making money in these markets? Everyone has been complaining about the rising price of oil and food costs. have any of you invested in these stocks?
AGU, MOS, TNH, POT.....these agriculture stocks are strong as hell. All kinds of oil plays are working. natural gas stocks too.
Stop all your complaining and do something for yourself. You don;t need a lot of money, so I don;t want to hear that. Got $500???? If you had bought 100 shares of FPP recently you could have doubled your money. Want another oil play?? MXC.... PDO...CLR.....I could go on for an hour. But last time I started naming companies or stocks I was accused of touting my book and was banned. Please don;t ban me again.
All I am saying is as bad as things are....do a little homework and make things work for you...There are 2 sides to every trade.....For every winner there is a loser..... You can't be a winner if you don;t play the game.... Research..Research...research....and you won't be a loser. Let your winners run and cut losses!!! Cliches? Yes, but oh so true.
When there is blood in the streets BUY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All the panic selling has happened. I am not saying the panic has happened already I am just using another cliche to prove my point.
Do I see a market sell off happening?? I sure hope so. We can't go up until we have one. Again cycles.... You can not go back up and set new highs until old money is taken out. We have a lot of support in the 11,500 - 12,000 on the DOW ... what does that mean??? lots of supply here. If we break below certain points without demand for stock, selling will accelerate and new lows will be put in. Once we reach a bottom, expect us to stay there. You have to see accumulation of stocks taking place in order to put a new floor in. Once this floor is in place the markets will go up again.
1 think you need to know is economics 101. Supply and demand.... You might not know but that what the stock market is all about... If there is not enough supply or demand is strong prices go higher. Too much supply or not enough demand and we go lower. It really is that simple. Do you really think their is an intrinsic value for a stock??? Hell no.. When valuing a stock you look at where the price could go over time based on earnings power and dividends, or thats what they teach you in school. Know what?? It's bull crap. If people want stock in a company they are willing to buy up the stock at higher and higher prices. Expectations of performance be damned. If people are buying, I want in....that the mentality.... that's how supply and demand works here. The stock market is a game. I have learned that over time. Get good at the game and you come out ahead. When trading you learn, be early in and out even faster.
This is your lesson for the day and sorry if I went off topic, but since the OP's article is about what some idiot at RBS is saying.....lets look at RBS's track record!! Recently they are scraping the bottom of the barrel and I have been using them as sort of a "do what ever they say not to do".
For full disclosure.......still long agriculture stocks, still long some oil stocks, still short financials (but have been long and short them regularly since the Bear Sterns collapse, ran them up and ran them down < see there really is 2 sides to every market>). Long the US$ since the last week of April and currently short the Euro.
[edit on 19-6-2008 by traderonwallst]
[edit on 19-6-2008 by traderonwallst]
reply posted on 19-6-2008 @ 09:54 PM by traderonwallst
reply to post by leo123
I have always said...bond traders are the smartest people on the street!!!!
Not a 1 liner, but an observation I have made.
I have always said...bond traders are the smartest people on the street!!!!
Not a 1 liner, but an observation I have made.
reply posted on 19-6-2008 @ 11:07 PM by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by mythatsabigprobe
Nah, it can be traced back to the establishment of the central banking systems here in the USA and earlier in Europe and England. 1913 was the year the Federal Reserve Act was passed, and WW I immediately followed, then the Great Depression, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and a succession of serial wars since then.
It is all the well planned dismantling of the American middle class and the economic slavery of America first, then the world.
Nah, it can be traced back to the establishment of the central banking systems here in the USA and earlier in Europe and England. 1913 was the year the Federal Reserve Act was passed, and WW I immediately followed, then the Great Depression, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and a succession of serial wars since then.
It is all the well planned dismantling of the American middle class and the economic slavery of America first, then the world.
reply posted on 19-6-2008 @ 11:56 PM by Leo Strauss
reply to post by traderonwallst
you know trader there are many stories of people like yourself throwing themselves out of windows in 1929. How sure are you???
Your buddies are rollin the dice. Would you bet your life on it??
you know trader there are many stories of people like yourself throwing themselves out of windows in 1929. How sure are you???
Your buddies are rollin the dice. Would you bet your life on it??
reply posted on 20-6-2008 @ 12:04 AM by traderonwallst
reply to post by Leo Strauss
Damn straight I would! Rule #1...manage your risk. I am no longer an active trader on Wall Street, but still trade very actively on my own. Right now I run the Risk Management division at a major Japanese Company in Midtown, specializing in credit management and investment opportunities. I do miss the active trading and the Wall Street business, but the risk is much more minimal here and I leave all my worries at the office.
Damn straight I would! Rule #1...manage your risk. I am no longer an active trader on Wall Street, but still trade very actively on my own. Right now I run the Risk Management division at a major Japanese Company in Midtown, specializing in credit management and investment opportunities. I do miss the active trading and the Wall Street business, but the risk is much more minimal here and I leave all my worries at the office.
reply posted on 20-6-2008 @ 06:26 AM by pjsconcrete
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
Agreed!!! That's one of the biggest problems we face!! We need serious election reform NOW. The money needs to be taken out of Washington. No more lobbyists, and force candidates to take public financing. Our politicians are beholden to their special intrests, while we all die on the vine.
Agreed!!! That's one of the biggest problems we face!! We need serious election reform NOW. The money needs to be taken out of Washington. No more lobbyists, and force candidates to take public financing. Our politicians are beholden to their special intrests, while we all die on the vine.
reply posted on 20-6-2008 @ 08:50 AM by behindthescenes
reply to post by traderonwallst
Okay, Trader .. but the average ATSer isn't an active Wall Street participant, but a passive 401K hopeful. That's life and a fact. And whereas $500 for you may be small potatoes to start with, $500 for me or another person -- if lost even by 25% in the markets -- could mean a month I can't pay the minimum on my CC bill, or I don't have enough to pay the power bill, etc.
Now, I do dabble in the market, and like you, have benefitted greatly from oil stocks and raw material companies. But honestly, I'm getting scared and pulling out. Nothing seems to make sense anymore. Valuations are all over the map. Commodities and oil price rise and falls defy all logic.
To me, that defines a bubble. Saw it in tech. Saw it most recently in commercial real estate. Now seeing it in corn and oil and steel and silver and aluminum and even in South American coffee, for Pete's sake! Seriously, a run up in coffee futures? When plantation yields have been at all-time highs? What the @#($*&!?!!!
This is just pure rampant speculation by the same overly-liquid hedge fund operators who killed tech, real estate and banks.
Therein lies the danger. It's not individuals like you or me making rational, solid decisions. It's a herd mentality. You said so yourself -- follow the crowd to invest, but be sure you're in early and out early.
There's that famous adage here in ATS about the individual versus the group. An individual is smart and can handle and respond to information. The group is reactive, dumb and exposed to all those dire sins we talk about. Especially greed.
That's what we're seeing in the commodities market -- puriant greed. And when those real inflation numbers finally come in by July, the market is going to get stone-cold frightened, and it's going to force the Fed into a wall it never wanted to be in -- keep rates low and fuel further inflation, or raise rates to combat inflation, but kill liquidity and let more banks fail, fear spread and a recession collapse into depression.
Okay, Trader .. but the average ATSer isn't an active Wall Street participant, but a passive 401K hopeful. That's life and a fact. And whereas $500 for you may be small potatoes to start with, $500 for me or another person -- if lost even by 25% in the markets -- could mean a month I can't pay the minimum on my CC bill, or I don't have enough to pay the power bill, etc.
Now, I do dabble in the market, and like you, have benefitted greatly from oil stocks and raw material companies. But honestly, I'm getting scared and pulling out. Nothing seems to make sense anymore. Valuations are all over the map. Commodities and oil price rise and falls defy all logic.
To me, that defines a bubble. Saw it in tech. Saw it most recently in commercial real estate. Now seeing it in corn and oil and steel and silver and aluminum and even in South American coffee, for Pete's sake! Seriously, a run up in coffee futures? When plantation yields have been at all-time highs? What the @#($*&!?!!!
This is just pure rampant speculation by the same overly-liquid hedge fund operators who killed tech, real estate and banks.
Therein lies the danger. It's not individuals like you or me making rational, solid decisions. It's a herd mentality. You said so yourself -- follow the crowd to invest, but be sure you're in early and out early.
There's that famous adage here in ATS about the individual versus the group. An individual is smart and can handle and respond to information. The group is reactive, dumb and exposed to all those dire sins we talk about. Especially greed.
That's what we're seeing in the commodities market -- puriant greed. And when those real inflation numbers finally come in by July, the market is going to get stone-cold frightened, and it's going to force the Fed into a wall it never wanted to be in -- keep rates low and fuel further inflation, or raise rates to combat inflation, but kill liquidity and let more banks fail, fear spread and a recession collapse into depression.
reply posted on 20-6-2008 @ 09:05 AM by behindthescenes
Originally posted by son of PC
reply to post by behindthescenes
I would like to call out the OP on this post. Rick Flair says " to be the man you have to beat the man". I see all those stars and flags on you post and I don't see any on mine.
In other words, I don't think much of you predictive skills, but I don't want to make this personal. I will tell you exactly what will happen in July. I hope some of you characters who can read can also remember.
Here goes. 1. the US stock market will test the 11,500 level and will seem to hold, and
2. the minimum wage will go up
That's about it. OK people, try to remember who the absolute numero uno predictor of the site is and will forever be. Take care------------------PC
First off, anyone who quotes Rick Flair -- well, no offense, but not sure how much credence I should give you there. Sounds like you're modeling his ego more than using your actual brain. And you seriously seem put off by not having any stars on your thread contribution. Wow. That's something, dude.
Secondly, I really hope you're right. And history certainly is tilting in your favor. But if we get through the summer and absolutely nothing happens -- economy just bumps along the bottom, commodities level and maybe even moderate, housing shows signs of recovery, etc. -- then I will be just as happy as you.
But to me, you're missing the point of the RBC article -- he's saying that we're going to see some very catastrophic inflation numbers finally coming to light this summer and that will send the markets into utter turmoil.
As for the minimum wage -- that won't happen until after an Obama administration comes into office. Bush may be a lot of things, but he's been pretty dead-set against raising it any. Now, with inflation, he may change his stripes and show himself (again) to not be a fiscal conservative. But, I'm betting against that.
As for the DOW, I believe we'll go sub-10,000 by the end of summer. Then and only then will I reenter the market with aplumb.
reply posted on 20-6-2008 @ 10:51 AM by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by LostNemesis
I live in Idaho and love it here plus a lot of mountains to escape to. I tell you I'm going to be stocking up on wood before winter and starting to buy extra food everytime I go to the grocery store. I'm kinda freaking out about all of this!! Feel better about being in Idaho though rather than L.A. or somewhere like that - lived there for years, would never go back.
I live in Idaho and love it here plus a lot of mountains to escape to. I tell you I'm going to be stocking up on wood before winter and starting to buy extra food everytime I go to the grocery store. I'm kinda freaking out about all of this!! Feel better about being in Idaho though rather than L.A. or somewhere like that - lived there for years, would never go back.
reply posted on 20-6-2008 @ 02:09 PM by son of PC
reply to post by behindthescenes
Thanks for the reply. Predicting stuff is not so easy. Interestingly enough, I asked the Amazing Randii Foundation to test me with a random number generator, but since I'm not eligible for the million dollar prize, they refused. But that's more like psi than clairvoyance. I was going to send a copy of the letter I received from them to Noory, but he's so busy. I listen to c2c almost every night. Anyhoo Take care-----------------------------PC
Thanks for the reply. Predicting stuff is not so easy. Interestingly enough, I asked the Amazing Randii Foundation to test me with a random number generator, but since I'm not eligible for the million dollar prize, they refused. But that's more like psi than clairvoyance. I was going to send a copy of the letter I received from them to Noory, but he's so busy. I listen to c2c almost every night. Anyhoo Take care-----------------------------PC
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