I've got nothing but love for you too rockpuck

I agree, not too many Americans are planning their European vacations any time soon. I really don't know how big of a bite out of the European economy it is when American tourists are MIA so I can't speak to that and don't want to come off as a condescending American that thinks that America has more influence than it does I know that I wouldn't be caught dead in Europe right now with the dollar the way it is and inflation exploding. The loss of millions of tourists has got to take some toll though. Hawaii is really suffering right now from this since airfare is so expensive and discretionary spending for the average US consumer these days is nil. If people are taking vacations then they are mostly 'staycations' or camping in a location within 2-4 hours drive of their homes.

My folks are recently retired and last year they took their RV out west and I flew out to meet them for a few weeks. We drove all over Utah, Arizona, and New Mexico and had a great time. This year they were going to head out to Montana and Wyoming and I was going to fly out and meet them again. They canceled the trip because diesel is too much and that beast only gets like 7mpg. They are pretty well off too, and they planned well for their retirement and still they decided the cost just wasn't worth it. Last year they spent about $1500 in diesel costs. This year it would have been well over $3k.

It's very sad that Congress has the nerve to take vacation with all of these things going on. I am a fan of the free markets, but when speculators and corporations start influencing the cost of necessary commodities then that is a national security issue and they should be dealt with quickly and harshly by the authorities. They are all kicking back and getting rich while they laugh at the apathy and stupidity of the American people.

rockpuck seems the dollar would have went down today on ECB hike, i think i'm smelling something else besides the barb-q. Think the dollar may be hittin some fresh new lows in the coming weeks possibly testing 70 with repreated attempts at intervention.

you know one of the things alot of people on financial boards have been bringup is a "new resolution trust" deal a gov't backstop to all this worthless debt, nationalization if you will, this would weaken the dollar and drive price inflation in commodity's up even higher, but slow the debt destruction (credit/debt deflation forces) and slow house price falls.


paulson says they need more tools to help with the liquidiation of large institutions become more orderly, wonder how much sleep Bernanke is getting?

[edit on 3-7-2008 by cpdaman]

you know i have been wondering of late regarding the high prices of oil and such if the U.S govt was caught (like the fed) between a rock and a hard place. And i would be interested in behind the scenes take on this specifically.

As the dollar devaluates the OPEC nations face upward pressure to cut their dollar pegs as well as their 'deals' to price dollars in Euro's which is very important ( contrary to what some people believe). The dollar as world reserve currency is what allows america to be a consumer nation that produces very little yet consumes so much. This can not be understated. also the devaluating dollar causes more central banks to diversify their holdings out of dollars and into other currency's (and using soverign wealth funds to hide this diversification from the u.s (and our military). Seems to me this started to occur not just during the euro's inception but also late in 2005, as foreign central banks realized the dollar's future was not too brite.

THIs may have left america with a difficult task,
A/ watch the dollar lose it's reserve currency status slowly but surely

B/ bomb all central banks and opec nations (crikey!)

C. increase OPEC shieks profits and thus give them a reason to not give in to rising pressure to go off petro dollar pricing ("make it worth their (shieks) while") BECAUSE the u.s gov't and financial institution allowed energy speculation to be unregulated which gave the SHIEKS a great deal (for sticking with the dollar thru a 35% currency depreciation they would be rewarded w/ nearly a 300% increase in the price they received for their oil barrels).

i think the U.S may have negotiated a deal w/ most opec nations that they would be rewarded for sticking w/ a weak dollar by exponential returns on the price of oil. Central banks would now need to hold more dollars for their nations oil payments and this would help mask the diversifying effort they had been partaking in, especially those central banks not in opec country's. Problem is should gas prices fall, opec may have much less reason to price oil in dollars and world central bank reserves will probably (rapidly lose tons of dollar $) because they will not need as much for oil, and thus dollar as world reserve currency will for real be on life support. So a little temporay relief at the pump may cost consumers and everyone in america the benefit of being the benifactor of the petro dollar system. This is what makes me question my earlier held beliefs in regulating speculation.

By possibly negotiating this the u.s gov't would have at least temporaily stopped a very painful and globally destabalizing break of dollar as world reserve currency. the u.s standard of living would have dropped like a rock and the u.s military might (financing) would have been shattered as they could no longer produce paper in exchange for goods and services w/o crippling consequences. of course the consequences of making this deal were higher oil prices (food as well) which is more slowly but steadily hurting americans (better than the alternative).

i am starting to believe more strongly that the u.s gov't (poss. globalists and their investment banks, hedge funds as well!!) made a deal w/ opec to keep dollar pricing thru the currency depreciation and they would be rewarded with much high oil prices (much more than makes up for depreciation). you see with the rest of the world (not made up of opec nations) diversifying out of the dollar (primarily stealthly thru undisclosed soverign wealth funds) the u.s became HIGHLY dependant on OPEC nations to step in and make up for the $$ losses. The only way to do this was take the pressure of them to diversify and even more importantly keep pricing oil in dollars by rewarding them hand over fist w/ exponentially higher oil prices.

The longer this policy continues the more third world country's starve yet we retain a higher standard of living (status quo minus steady increases in oil), when this "new agreement can't be kept by either party, oil prices may fall" and it is yet to be seen wether foreign central banks wil step in to buy u.s treasury's again (may depend on wether the fall is due to a stronger dollar or inabilty to keep the oil price bubble going) and wether should especially the latter be true if OPEC may shift out of $



[edit on 7-7-2008 by cpdaman]

Cpdaman: But if this were true, then wouldn't this mean that the fall would only be that much harder when the dollar really does crash? Since we are now sending so many more dollars out of the country by paying so much more for oil, then what happens when all of those dollars come rushing back home after the dollar crashes and the other countries that have them start to unload? We are talking inflation on a scale that we have never seen. Seems to me that the govt. would anticipate this as an endgame to what you are suggesting. This would be likened to taking a pill to cure you of a common cold when the pill is known to cause cancer a few years down the road. Doesn't make sense to me.

[edit on 7/8/2008 by Escrotumus]

Originally posted by Escrotumus
Cpdaman: But if this were true, then wouldn't this mean that the fall would only be that much harder when the dollar really does crash? Since we are now sending so many more dollars out of the country by paying so much more for oil, then what happens when all of those dollars come rushing back home after the dollar crashes and the other countries that have them start to unload. Seems to me that the govt. would anticipate this as an endgame to what you are suggesting. This would be likened to taking a pill to cure you of a common cold when the pill is known to cause cancer a few years down the road. Doesn't make sense to me.

you do have a BIT of a point (but not what you think) gov't often don't look past the short term, and this administration gov't/ globalists may not have done this out of the intrests of it's citizens but out of pure greed and survival or golden parachutes of the elite in the plutocracy. i.e buying a bit more time to well postion the elite's

well (sans this hypothetical new deal i think the gov't made w/ opec) the fall in dollar would have been more orderly by global central banks they don't want a crisis in the currency markets, the only thing is the u.s gov't could have made the deal that benefited the shieks as well as gov't insiders and financial big wigs (to recoup their losses) and known that when oil slides and U.S (petro recyling) falls and they lose more share of the world reserve currency that; (the five points i am about to list would have already been occuring and that to them the trade off (of buying time and making profits) may be worth the bumpier/quicker transition to the downside as well as increase the visibility of a problem the citizens may then REACT to , giving the globalists their option to pounce. but again that is if oil falls signifcantly (30% or so)

1. the u.s bond market long term rates will go very high

2. pressure to switch to oil pricing in euro's will be elevated

3. consumer prices spikes in the u.s (due to rapid weakening of the dollar) will be first offset (at least slightly) by the fall in oil prices since speculation had driven up prices so initially the dollar could fall but oil prices could as well

4. u.s miltary will have it's funding legs cut out from underneath

5. The insiders/globalists will be well protected by their investments and probably have houses in other country's and leave the mess to someone else/ and the NEW american Century will be that of feudalism , an elimination of middle class and a much larger gap between rich and poor.

Right now for most of the $$ we send out for oil...lots of them come right back to us. (Petro-dollar recycling) OPEC nations especially in the gulf, take a large portion of their petro dollars and purchase U.S gov't debt (gov't bonds) this helps keep interest rates low in america. (artificially)

I don't get when people say all these dollars will come back to us, because right now they are coming back to us thru petro recyling (which is good , because this support's U.S govt bond market. These foreign central bank dollars should oil fall(that are no longer needed for oil) may be used by foreign central banks to buy U.S business share's overseas, or raw materials. Or perhaps the u.s govt would finally allow foreign investors to buy stock in financial institutions. or perhaps they would be converted to Euro's or another currency.

The current neo-con administration may have made the deal just to buy more time for globalists and neo-cons to make some $$ ( and recover some as well) prior to sweeping changes and a inevitable changing of the guard (which based on a economy so out of balance, and consumer debt pilling upward) was inevitable. i.e western financial system crash and the ensuing gov't bailout and nationalization all the while the emerging market fare much better due to underlying fundamentals



[edit on 8-7-2008 by cpdaman]

ok enough of my speculative dribble


here's a quote from some guy named Jim willie who gives financial advice

For two decades, the public has subsidized corrupt, crooked, conniving Wall Street elitists without a peep of objection. The problem is that the public citizenry in the Untied States is profoundly ignorant, based upon lack of reliable information and lack of ability to discern much beyond video games and reality television shows and new hamburger options and Hollywood star drug habits. The majority is clueless, while the enlightened few feel helpless to contend with a corrupted system that controls the media networks, regulatory bodies, and law enforcement

THIS is the TRUTH imo, however i don't pass much judgement on those that may be ignorant because i could have just as easily not taken and intrest in this crap had i not had a couple good friends move away. ( would have been partying more)

the banks are ready to be carried off in stretcher, bernake is running around like a used-car salesmen on crack trying to get private investors to give banks some money....paulson is trying to convince regulators to use.......his plan when the sh$% goes down (which helps bailout wallstreet fat cats) .....and now the controlled corrupt media is desperate to parade a new face out on tv (jamie dimon) cause the insiders need more people to hold stocks (in sectors that haven't dumped yet) while the smart money sells.

also the IMF has told the federal reserve board that they will have to submit to some sort of financial sector assesment program, for the first time in any fed chief's history. Bernanke is way over his head. The globalists first became parasite in britan and britan became artifically strong from their parasites before the globalists left and finally invaded america on their THIRD TRY (fed reserve was third attempt at central bank in U.S.A) now the u.s.a is infected terminally from these parasites who are about to jump ship and since their are no super powers (hosts) left they want to run the World (gov't)

also the high oil prices are doing two things to the economy.

They are weakening the lower and middle class

they are increasing the petro dollar inflows from OPEC nations into higher purchases of gov't $ debt (petro recycling) in order to pick up the slack on fewer/less purchases by the europeans and asians.

Remember the deal we made w saudis and opec, well if it weren't for higher oil prices, the dollar as world reserve currency would be much weaker (in terms of total % of reserves) because higher prices increase country's demand for dollars (to pay oil bills!) , w/o this added dollar volume, the $ would be alot closer to euro in terms of world reserve currency and IRan would have more leverage/power and their choice to insist japan pay for oil in euro's would have been more significant and able to gain momentum. You wanna know why iran is trying to get nukes?

Because they saw what happened to IRaq when you go off petro dollar, and they want to have protection once they do.

besides covering what in my opinion is an obvious idea to
1. boost dollar demand thru higher oil prices (at a time when u.s dollar asset demand is low thanks to a slumping economy) (which maintains dollars role as world reserve currency per % of reserves) as well as

2 give opec nations nice profits to keep them from thoughts of diversifying out of dollar (which in turn increases the purchase of u.s govt bonds thru petro recyling) keeps intrest rate on gov't debt low

the other important reason OIL and FOOD are going up is SOVERIGN Wealth FUNDS.

I have pointed the finger at investment banks but now i think a bigger player in the recent surge of prices is the Soverign Wealth Funds investment in Commodity's. And why wouldn't they? its almost too good to be true for them. Think about this. They have nearly 4000 billion!!!! So far they have invested in the neighborhood of 5% (which could tell you prices may have a ways to go)

1. They purchase commodity's in large numbers and the prices rise =

2. which (should they be in OPEC country's) leads to even higher profits from opec exports (due to higer prices per barrel/oil) = more money and a nice % gets funneled back into SWF's, which then buys more commodity's... which in turn creates a ever exanding feed back
loop of high prices. Bueller....... and the media blackout because we made a deal w the devil (in exchange for oil pricing in dollars from OPEC which gives the U.S (or globalists who are parasites to the U.S host economy) ability to run what they infiltrated ( military-financial complex ) to maintain us as a super power all else is peanuts

note .........if the weight of this doesn't sink in , read again.


[edit on 15-7-2008 by cpdaman]

a 'crash' may well come to the stockholders... but any 'crash' will be less severe on the Corporate or Treasury bond holders... not saying they won't take their licks too....but the middle class with their 401k all in common stocks will suffer the most.

the model for 'saving' the economy is a Fascist-corporate takeover
with the Fed getting new and expanded powers, as the SEC and the US Treasury and Govt all allow the fascist Fed to takeover all theduties that Congress, Treasury, SEC were supposed to handle.


look for more & more regulations, rationing, and a lot of industries being nationalized on a basis of that area or product being of "[Strategic National Importance"

prepare to now revisit the 'Grapes of Wrath' world condition,

even if i am able to extracate myself from a 'super-depression' i won't...
as i could never be an elite.... how bout you?

Originally posted by St Udio
a 'crash' may well come to the stockholders... but any 'crash' will be less severe on the Corporate or Treasury bond holders... not saying they won't take their licks too....but the middle class with their 401k all in common stocks will suffer the most.

the model for 'saving' the economy is a Fascist-corporate takeover
with the Fed getting new and expanded powers, as the SEC and the US Treasury and Govt all allow the fascist Fed to takeover all theduties that Congress, Treasury, SEC were supposed to handle.


look for more & more regulations, rationing, and a lot of industries being nationalized on a basis of that area or product being of "[Strategic National Importance"

prepare to now revisit the 'Grapes of Wrath' world condition,

even if i am able to extracate myself from a 'super-depression' i won't...
as i could never be an elite.... how bout you?

Corporate thugs have already pre-planned for this and their money has long gone to their off shore accounts, further, they are asking government for a bailout from their misdeeds, which is pure treason to the taxpayers. let the people take over the country from the alien thugs

Come on guys.....
many of you think that our government has alot of secret technology
If this is true, how can our economy really crash, unless they want it to.
If our economy crashes for good, too many business men loose too much money. I don't think it will happen.

Considering its late July already, and oil prices are going down, I do not see an imminent crash.

All of the above listed men are Jews.

Com'on man. That's just right wing Propaganda. It says All of the above listed men are Jews.... if you read something like that in a so called "serious" article you know it's bull#.

OK, Professor....you tell us who are they and why is the Reserve Bank in their controll, when it belongs to the People.....The Overburdened Taxpayers...and further more, why is it that only they have the special previlage to 'bunk a bank' and still get a bail-out from the Taxpayer, is this not called treason, for breach of trust. aka Fraud