Japanese invent car that runs on water

Just a little note:

techon.nikkeibp.co.jp...

Its NOT electrolysis. Its a chemical reaction =P

The basic power generation mechanism of the new system is similar to that of a normal fuel cell, which uses hydrogen as a fuel. According to Genepax, the main feature of the new system is that it uses the company's membrane electrode assembly (MEA), which contains a material capable of breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen through a chemical reaction.

I read this article and almost started pulling out my hair because of how absurd it is. To those of you who have already commented saying that this car doesn't work as advertised, I'd just like to say this: well done.

Apparently this car only needs water to run on. I guess they don't say what the exhaust is, but I have to assume that it is water (because there really aren't that many ways to combine hydrogen and oxygen, and water is the most stable). There is no way to take water, do a chemical process to it, and get out water and energy. It violates the first law of thermodynamics.

I'm not saying the car doesn't run. I'm just saying that water isn't where the energy is coming from. It could be from a battery, or an external source. Either way, water can't be reacted to form water and energy.

The company says that it has a special membrane that separates the hydrogen and oxygen in water to supply the fuel cell. It doesn't matter how this is done, it will still take the same amount of energy to do as you will get back from the fuel cell. More, actually, because nothing is 100% efficient in reality.

I'd like to say two more things to forestall any arguments. First, I don't need to know what process they use to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. It is one of the amazing things about thermodynamics that you only need to know the start and end states to determine where energy went in any process. Second, I'm a junior chemistry major, so I'm not just pulling this thing out of thin air.


[edit on 15-6-2008 by AERO_VISIONS]

Originally posted by AERO_VISIONS
I read this article and almost started pulling out my hair because of how absurd it is. To those of you who have already commented saying that this car doesn't work as advertised, I'd just like to say this: well done.

Apparently this car only needs water to run on. I guess they don't say what the exhaust is, but I have to assume that it is water (because there really aren't that many ways to combine hydrogen and oxygen, and water is the most stable). There is no way to take water, do a chemical process to it, and get out water and energy. It violates the first law of thermodynamics.

I'm not saying the car doesn't run. I'm just saying that water isn't where the energy is coming from. It could be from a battery, or an external source. Either way, water can't be reacted to form water and energy.

The company says that it has a special membrane that separates the hydrogen and oxygen in water to supply the fuel cell. It doesn't matter how this is done, it will still take the same amount of energy to do as you will get back from the fuel cell. More, actually, because nothing is 100% efficient in reality.

I'd like to say two more things to forestall any arguments. First, I don't need to know what process they use to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. It is one of the amazing things about thermodynamics that you only need to know the start and end states to determine where energy went in any process. Second, I'm a junior chemistry major, so I'm not just pulling this thing out of thin air.


[edit on 15-6-2008 by AERO_VISIONS]

Then what do you say about this?

reply to post by Quazga


That's years ago. He said he's into production years ago. And it's been years and how come nothing comes out of it?

And why the US military isn't interested in this? It's because it's a scam, hoax,fake, phony phony, PHONY!!!

If it was true, and all that revolutionary, all the multibilion companies would be all over him, as we are facing a really serious energy crisis.

But guess what? NOTHING. It's a scam. Get over it. Water isn't fuel.
And someone in here said that air is also fuel. "Air works great too... it comes in cold and pressureized then it is super heated"
Wuaahahahahaha!!!
Ok what do they use to "pressureized " it in the first place, genius?
Well someone in here was sleeping during science class.....

Water isn't the new oil, and you can't have free energy out of water. Water is water. Sure it gave my "ignorant existance breath and existance" but you can't live on water ALONE just as you can't use fuel as water ALONE.

I guess if he mysteriously dissapeared, every conspiracy theroist would scream "Coverup!!" "Free energy suppression!" "They killed our saviour!! "without thinking about the possibility of him being a lying scum that he truly is away with his investor's money.

Case closed. Get over yourselves. There is no saviour. There is no free energy. We will die in our own waste. Save up, work hard, face reality and stop dreaming and go on with your life. Work hard, pay for your gas and drive your fossil fuel burning vehicle.

Water isn't gonna run your car. Get over it.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by Macrotus]

Originally posted by Macrotus
reply to post by Quazga

 

That's years ago. He said he's into production years ago. And it's been years and how come nothing comes out of it?

And why the US military isn't interested in this. It's because it's a scam, hoax,fake, phony phony, PHONY!!!



[edit on 15-6-2008 by Macrotus]

Actually, if you would have taken the time to watch the entire video you would have seen that the US Gov has a contract to them to develop a Hummer that can run on both water and gasoline.

It must be embarrassing to have posted something so asinine so quickly, simply to satisfy some subconscious pessimistic desire to be right.


Oh and here is his company website Where you can purchase the aquygen generators.




[edit on 15-6-2008 by Quazga]

reply to post by Quazga


Any official papers to go with that, or any official military website to support that or you "just heard it on TV"? Eh? Or was it just his claims?
Oooohhh...... funny the TV said there was WMD in Iraq. And sometimes the TV also said there's a white bearded guy in the clouds watching all of us....

TV won't lie, wouldn't they? "Oh no ythey would NEVER EVER lie"

Riiiiiight...........

[edit on 15-6-2008 by Macrotus]

Originally posted by Macrotus
reply to post by Quazga

 

Any official papers to go with that, or you "just heard it on TV"? Eh? Or was it just his claims?

Funny the TV said there was WMD in Iraq. Hmmmmmmmm...........

Yeah, here is the company website where you can purchase it.

Don't be so quick to judge.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by Quazga]

reply to post by Quazga


Eeeeeeeeeeeehhhhh.......

I was not asking for his website "where you can purchase it for $6995". Remember about Steorn Orbo?

I'm asking you about OFFICIAL papers or OFFICIAL military website that states they are contracting him. Where????? Where????

And if he was contracted by the military (which could well mean million or even billion of dollars) then why is he desperate to get money out of people's credit card?

This is really fishy indeed. Yup.
Go ahead invest in his scam. I wanna see you be the first here on ATS to buy his "oh so winderful free energy technology"

"This is a new free energy, ..........but you have to pay $6995. Let see those credit cards flashing"

Eeeeeheheheeheh.......


[edit on 15-6-2008 by Macrotus]

Originally posted by Macrotus
reply to post by Quazga

 

Eeeeeeeeeeeehhhhh.......

I was not asking for he's website "where you can purchase it for $6995". Remember about Steorn Orbo. Same thing.

I'm asking you about OFFICIAL papers or OFFICIAL military website that states they are contracting him. Where????? Where????

And if he was contracted by the military (which could well mean million or even billion of dollars) then why is he desperate to get money out of people's credit card?

This is really fishy indeed. Yup.

Eh?

Nope, not fishy at all. Check out the patent.


I don't understand how someone having a storefront to sell their invention is in anyway "desperate for our credit cards".

Also, here is another site dedicated to HHO Technology.


[edit on 15-6-2008 by Quazga]

[edit on 15-6-2008 by Quazga]

reply to post by Quazga


That's it. Electrolysis? Ahahahah!

That doesn't prove siht. Even if he has a patent on it doesn't mean it works like it some kind of free energy device where you can get more than you put in. If you spent some time reading patents there are much much more ridiculous patents than that.

Here:

www.cracked.com...

I'm done wasting my time proving 8th grade science to bunch of stubborn gullible people.

And where is the official military papers/website that I asked you about them contracting him? Where? Where??? WHERE???????? Oooops. He lied. Oh no.
Then if the military is contracting him, then why is he asking for manufacturers? Eh?

Uh, please......


Fraud. Hoax. Scam. Fake. Phoney. PHOOOONEEYYYY!!!















[edit on 15-6-2008 by Macrotus]

Originally posted by Rumrunner
This is one of the stupidest/scariest idea's I have ever heard of!

The world can do without oil but it CANNOT do without water!

You are not serious, right?!

This car doesn't need freshwater, it runs on stale or seawater if you want.
We live on a waterplanet. What if we could stop poluting the thin film of air surrounding our planet. It would be fanstastic.

And thereby, the water is not lost.
Normally hydrogen used as fuel produces water. H2+O2>> H2O

reply to post by rjmelter


This is false. The human body does not use water as an energy source. Water is a lubricant used in the transfer of nutrients and minerals from cell to cell. As a source of energy, water is simply in an unusable form for the body.

As to the "water car", this is impossible. You are taking water, converting it to HHO, with the end result being nothing but water and a surplus of energy which is then used to create more HHO. This is a perpetual motion machine, which so far has never been proven to work and even contradicts a very well known law of thermodynamics.

Originally posted by AERO_VISIONS
I read this article and almost started pulling out my hair because of how absurd it is. To those of you who have already commented saying that this car doesn't work as advertised, I'd just like to say this: well done.

Apparently this car only needs water to run on. I guess they don't say what the exhaust is, but I have to assume that it is water (because there really aren't that many ways to combine hydrogen and oxygen, and water is the most stable). There is no way to take water, do a chemical process to it, and get out water and energy. It violates the first law of thermodynamics.

I'm not saying the car doesn't run. I'm just saying that water isn't where the energy is coming from. It could be from a battery, or an external source. Either way, water can't be reacted to form water and energy.

The company says that it has a special membrane that separates the hydrogen and oxygen in water to supply the fuel cell. It doesn't matter how this is done, it will still take the same amount of energy to do as you will get back from the fuel cell. More, actually, because nothing is 100% efficient in reality.

I'd like to say two more things to forestall any arguments. First, I don't need to know what process they use to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. It is one of the amazing things about thermodynamics that you only need to know the start and end states to determine where energy went in any process. Second, I'm a junior chemistry major, so I'm not just pulling this thing out of thin air.


[edit on 15-6-2008 by AERO_VISIONS]

Good remarks. I thought the same. But I still cannot bend my mind around the fact that people claim these kind of things when there is nothing to it.

I also do not understand why Reuters send a journalist who is not informed about these simple matters.

Is it possible that the electrons used for power are derived from the H2 and the endresult of the process is LESS H2O then you started with and some form oxygen combined with...?? This is a layman talking off course. I have a friend who is a professor at the University working on H2 storage, i will ask him.

Ok where's the official papers/ official military website report that say he's contracted by the military?

WHERE? WHERE? WHEEREEEEE?!?!

And this thread is done. There's no free energy. It's a an asinine term by the way. How can energy be free if you have to pay for the converters?

I might as well say I can get free energy out of my own fart.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by Macrotus]

Last Post and im done here...

Its these critics who are EXACTLY why the Government wont release such technologies out... So much ignorance. The capability is there. I seriously want to ask you something

When the NEWS channel reports that The U.S. Military is contracting these people to design a hummer for them using this technology does this tell you ANYTHING? Or do you normally say the news is fraud to... no offense... they suck at their job but they do their research... no question there. I dont really care what anyone says. I've taken chemistry physics etc and taken a basic 6v battery with the right electrical components and have SEEN a crap load of hydrogen fall off. We could not burn it however because of the hugh explosion it would have had but the CAPABILITY IS THERE. All we need to do is prove it with releasing it to the public for small prices instead of patenting the crap out of anything so people can walk away millionaires... Or MAYBE they cant release it because the oil companies already bought them out... lol. Patents are the worst things ever invented.

Stop being critics. The technology exists. It does use a lot of energy but it is possible with certain frequency sets. Where there is a will there is way. Confidence is all you need. And no that is not overly optimistic. Just a better way of thinking. Have a nice day.

What is the net loss compared to running fossil fuels? Even if this is a battery technologie the net result is a cleaner burning fuel. Hydrogen fuel cells seem to be one of many answers for the fossil fuel economy.

Wind and solar converted to hydrogen is the key.

Go hydrogen!!!!!!!

Free hydrogen is not an energy source; it is rather an energy carrier. Free hydrogen does not exist on this planet, so to derive free hydrogen we must break the hydrogen bond in molecules. Basic chemistry tells us that it requires more energy to break a hydrogen bond than to form one. This is due to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and there is no getting around it. We are working on catalysts which will help to lower the energy necessary to generate free hydrogen, but there will always be an energy loss, and the catalysts themselves will become terribly expensive if manufactured on a scale to match current transportation energy requirements.

All free hydrogen generated today is derived from natural gas. So right off the bat we have not managed to escape our dependency on nonrenewable hydrocarbons. This feedstock is steam-treated to strip the hydrogen from the methane molecules. And the steam is produced by boiling water with natural gas. Overall, there is about a 60% energy loss in this process. And, as it is dependent on the availability of natural gas, the price of hydrogen generated in this method will always be a multiple of the price of natural gas.

Ah, but there is an inexhaustible supply of water from which we could derive our hydrogen. However, splitting hydrogen from water requires an even higher energy investment per unit of water (286kJ per mole). All processes of splitting water molecules, including foremost electrolysis and thermal decomposition, require major energy investments, rendering them unprofitable.

hydrogeon myth

Hmm, some people here are claiming an education in certain areas and have shot down this idea, but with a bit of research into fuel cell technology, one can see that this does have potential.

It is possible to have a fuel cell that could generate enough electricity in order to electrolyze the water and split it into hydrogen and oxygen, without requiring any external electrical input.

Currently about to be brought online at a brewery in Australia is a system that utilises something called a Microbial Fuel Cell. Basically, microbes consume a fuel source, in this case waste water from the brewery containing organic compounds such as sugars and in a anaerobic catalytic reaction on a membrane within the fuel cell, they generate a flow of electrons, which is captured by the device and harnessed as a usable current.

A prototype system, which has been developed by the University of Queensland, has been successfully demonstrated and the Fosters Brewing Company is to have one installed at it's sites.

The MFC can output 2KW of electrical energy from the microbial process and also produces clean water. This is of special interest in Australia due to the scarcity of water and the huge demand for it by the Brewing company. It also produces carbon dioxide, but if you use an organic compound as food for the microbes, say sugar, it would be carbon neutral.

So, in essence, you could use the above system (or something similar) to generate enough electricity to either power an electric motor or to electrolyze water into H and O, providing a fuel for a combustion engine.

Honestly, if some people actually did some reading on the matter, you'd find that this isn't as far fetched as you claim, nor does it have to be a perpetual motion machine.

The technology is there and is being developed around the world as we sit here and debate whether it is real. In reality, there is no debate, just ignorant people who have pre-conceived idea's about what is possible and what isn't.

EDIT: Further reading reveals that Suzuki, of JAPAN, have had extensive knowledge of anaerobic Microbial fuel cells for at least 30 years, specifically one's that can produce a reliable supply of hydrogen without requiring an external electrical input.

[edit on 15/6/08 by stumason]

Antoine Lavoisier, a great French scientist and the father of modern chemistry declared his opinion about meteorites to his colleagues at Académie Française des Sciences: "Stones cannot fall from the sky, because there are no stones in the sky!" and he was applauded by the fellow scientists.

Today, two hundred years later, we know that sometimes there are stones falling from the sky, and meteorites do really exist.

Most new ideas are always vigorously opposed, ridiculed and even attacked by the scientific community, if that new idea does not fit the current scientific world view. Only decades or even centuries later we will really see who in the scientific community really was to be laughed at.

Luckily, there are always scientists who can -- and dare -- to think outside the box.


[edit on 15.6.2008 by Doc Lithium]

You can run a standard car on water with just a few minor adjustments to a standard engine, this really isnt new technology.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by DigitalKid]