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Does the bible condemn homosexuality?

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posted on May, 16 2008 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


This argument is nothing new. It has been going on in the Church since
it's beginning. I subscribe to Paul's doctrine. That which is right or wrong is known by the Spirit of God. "As many as are led by the Spirit of God, are the Sons of God." The works of the Laws of the old Covenant where only to expose all men as sinners. No body tried harder to keep the law then the Pharisees. Yet Jesus told them, "ye are of your father the devil".
Because they didn't have the truth of God in their hearts. They were always ready to judge and condemn others, for what they themselves where guilty of. Remember what Jesus told them about adultery, a condemnable offense, " if you just look on a women to lust after her, you
have already committed adultery!"
Until your heart is ready to see and receive the truth; it will not. You will not find the freedom that Christ promised. You will not be a child of promise. You will continue to try and achieve righteousness by the works of the law and condemn all those who don't. Because you judged and condemn others, you yourself will be judged by the same law.
Salvation, righteousness are gifts of God. They must be received as such.
As soon as you try and earn them. They are no longer gifts. (that was the mistake the Jews that rejected Jesus made. They thought they could earn salvation by keeping the law.) Being born again of God's Spirit of Love. All we need to do is love one another and remember the truth, that all flesh is corrupted by sin, made clean, only by the blood of Christ.




posted on May, 16 2008 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by InterestedObserver
 


Jesus was referring to what he will say to all people on the last day. He did not say it only applied to people who lived before his death. In fact that would be absurd - Jesus came to reveal the New Covenant. He brought God's kingdom into this world and all his teaching is for the church!

I have answered Howie in full. There is no conflict or disagreement between the words of Christ I quoted and all the Scriptures he quoted - they are all part of the New Covenant between God and his New Testament people: believers in Jesus Christ who have turned from a sinful way of life to keep the Law of God by the power that raised Christ from the dead working within them.



posted on May, 16 2008 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 





No sir! Circumcision was part of the ceremonial law that set apart the Jews as God's people. It was a sign that they were under the Old Covenant.


What do you think the old covenant was? LOL Keep the law and be blessed. Brake it and be cursed. That was the old covenant. Circumcision was given as a sign of taking on the old covenant, which meant you kept all the law of Moses. Do you need an old testament verse?!



posted on May, 16 2008 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


Before I respond to your replies


I am wondering, were you not able to find anything for my other 'challenge'?


Here is an even bigger challenge:

Post some red text scripture to support the idea that he (Jesus Christ) would have no problems with it


Here is what I believe. You are more interested in showing how the Bible supports hateful ideas such as God being against homosexuals, then you are in using the Bible to show loving ideas such as how God loves homosexuals.

Again, I repeat that second challenge.

[edit on 063131p://16u47 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on May, 16 2008 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by Howie47
 


We are talking at cross-purposes here!

You have just said:


You will continue to try and achieve righteousness by the works of the law and condemn all those who don't.


I had already said:

Christians are dead to the Law in terms of seeking to establish their own righteousness in order to be accepted by God. Those who seek to establish their own claim to be good enough to enter Heaven by their own deeds are under a curse.


Perhaps you missed my post? Perhaps English isn't your first language?!!

I am simply stating that true Christians express their love for God by keeping his moral Law. This is the universal testimony of the New Testament. I have shown this through the teaching of Christ and the apostles. There is nothing to add.

The New Testament Scriptures I quoted demonstrate that to claim to belong to Christ and practice lawlessness, whether in terms of immorality or anything else, makes that person a liar. Keeping God's Law is how a Christian expresses love, worship and gratitude to God. A Christian's righteousness is, however, 100% a gift from God through faith in the Cross.



posted on May, 16 2008 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 



Here is what I believe. You are more interested in showing how the Bible supports hateful ideas such as God being against homosexuals, then you are in using the Bible to show how God loved homosexuals.


PLEASE read this post, which I referred to on page 1 of this thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...

If any further clarification is needed, please read this post: www.abovetopsecret.com...

which I finished with this phrase: "Our Maker loves us sinners, literally to death, whatever our orientation."

I don't blame you for misunderstanding me. I have spent a lot of time, for example in that second post, trying to undo the harm done by people who claim to be Christians but are not true disciples of Christ and followers of his Way.

I'm afraid I don't understand your second challenge, i.e. how it differs from the first.

I've worked hard at this. It's now 00:42 am and I need some sleep! I trust what I have said will be considered in good faith.

God bless, and goodnight.



posted on May, 16 2008 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


Let us not get "testy" pause4thought. For that would be out of the spirit and in the flesh.




The New Testament Scriptures I quoted demonstrate that to claim to belong to Christ and practice lawlessness, whether in terms of immorality or anything else, makes that person a liar. Keeping God's Law is how a Christian expresses love, worship and gratitude to God. A Christian's righteousness is, however, 100% a gift from God through faith in the Cross.


If you want to express love and worship. Then forsake all else and follow Christ. This is probably the main reason people hold to the law of the old covenant. They like to believe they are pleasing and obeying God.
They are not!
Righteousness is not some mysterious thing. It is simply doing the right thing. Under the old covenant, it was keeping the law of Moses. Under the New it is following Jesus! No one has or ever could follow Jesus perfectly.
"All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God." Our perfection is made by the blood of Christ. The law of Christ is in Jn 15. "If you keep my commandments, then are you my disciples, this is my commandment,
that you love one another as I have loved you." It is very simple and clear.
Of course our and all, flesh is corrupted, sinful and wicked. We should be satisfied that our needs are meet. We are not under any law as to how they are meet. We our under Christ. If we have put on Christ.



posted on May, 16 2008 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


Alright, sorry for confusion, I'll do some paraphrasing:

Can you post red scripture that supports anything that would also in affect support love, compassion, and tolerance to homosexuals?

A reoccurring theme with many Christians while attempting to prove The Bible is against homosexuals, is that they completely ignore the parts of The Bible, specifically the words of Christ himself, that support and encourage people to not judge, persecute or hate homosexuals, but rather to love, be compassionate towards and tolerate (acceptance). Don't think so?... hence my challenge.

**also, I am not taking into account what is in other threads for a reason. Please post key relevant things from those threads in this thread, so everyone reading this thread will see it and understand your points, instead of just redirecting the reader. I am trying to encourage the integrity of this threads discussion.



posted on May, 16 2008 @ 08:57 PM
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Romans 1:26-28 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due. (28) And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a

reprobate mind

, to do those things which are not fitting;




posted on May, 16 2008 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


with sodom and gomora.. they wanted to take the angels against their will which is rape.. that was the sin



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by jbondo
 



i dont mean to offend. but i found first had that the only choice was wether or not to be honest with myself about who and what i am so as far as i can tell. the only way u were going to see beyond a shadow of a doubt that being gay is a choice thru u'r friend's friends is if u found them to be sexually attractive.. or did they say that they chose this path.. i know hundreds of gay people and not one of them ever said that



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 12:17 AM
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 


we're not we're just geting to the bottom of the issue.. besides bible thumping holier than thou jerks have been doing that for hundreds of years.
people like that said the same about black equality.. it was used against the jewish people.. we are trying to undo the twisting of a book that has been misused for centuries



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 12:33 AM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


what was in red is what jesus said.. what u added under mattew was by the church scribes



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 12:45 AM
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While I do think that the Bible states rather clearly that Homosexuality is indeed a sin I must say that I have found this thread interesting to say the least.



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 01:07 AM
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Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

Originally posted by menguard
reply to post by darkelf
 


If you don't that means your sin is bigger then my sin, I just sinned by placing you in sin, so it does't matter. Your thoughts are sin, your body is sin, so sin away sinner.

Lol.


This is something of the more hateful things I've seen here. Apologise or claim gnosticism...


Oh please allow me to change your opinion


Originally posted by darkelf
The Bible proclaims that any sex outside of sex between husband and wife is wrong. This is because marriage is a symbol in the Bible of Jesus and His believers. Jesus is called the Groom and His believers (church) comprise the bride. The bride is to remain faithful to the Groom. There are many instances where sexual infidelity is used as a symbol of God’s people turning away from Him.



You are right darkelf and this was the same angle I used in the many other threads about this. I have seen this argued from a evolutionary stand point where monkeys do it so that means it is ok for them to do it. Monkeys throw feces too so we know how scat became so popular

I have seen them (gays ) argue saying "why is it ok for heterosexual men to fornicate and don't lie to me because I know they all have sex." No one is saying that is a lie or the truth and yes it is a sex sin just like fornicating with any other man or woman.

You just don't see straight men making threads arguing thier convoluted discontexual tortureously construed alibi's and excuses. If you think it's ok to do it than why on earth are you seeking our approval or attempting to persuade anyone that it is ok?

I have heard every twisted messed up mucked up mangled and manipulated machination on this topic and as p4t has already said it has been coverd but you insist that their is still blood in this topic as if we have to bleed it dry. I suppose beating the topic to death will change the minds of those you think need to hear more so called Christians bearing false witness makling so much more confusion as if their hasn't been enough Christians already who rather than let the lord shape their life doing HIS will, you like to not only bend Gods word to your will, YOU want to drag others down with you.

This isn't about your silly right to get your freak on for Jesus, this is about GUILT and it is your cross to bear, not ours.

Gay homosexually debased sexual sinners got the State Government of Califorina to endorse this depravity so you think your marriage bed won't be defiled? You think you are a HERO for adopting children as a Christian married who are as far from equally yolked as you can get? Yeah that's just one of many areas to consider. Does it mention ANY where in the bible aout a man betrothing a man? If you want to engage in sin then just do it but don't use the Bible and think you can accuse Christians of judging you exclaiming you're a victim of bigotry. Don't give me a Christian Reputation to live up to when it is the Christian reputation of our forgiving nature you are seeking to appeal while we can forgive it we are called to correct it and if need be REBUKE YOU for it.

Name ONE example JUST ONE where a man and his husband are mentioned. Name one lyric in the song of soloman where he talks of the splendor and beauty of his lovers mangina You won't see anything specific like that and is why many homsexuals say the bible doesn't say there is anything wrong with it.

The fact is they should say the bible doesn't talk about it because it assumes the reader KNOWS men do not fit with man and is why he made woman for man and man for woman. When the Bible speaks about fornication and lust of the heart, it doesn't mention man with man so I guess that makes that kind of fornication ok then uh?

Don't give that BUNK about the gay gene unless you can prove it but even then I guess we can make all of our transgressions against god a genetic excuse we Christians call SIN.

Genesis 2:24-25 says, “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.” Hebrew 13:4 says, “Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.” All sexual sins (i.e. promiscuity, adultery, homosexuality, prostitution, etc.) are sins because they do not conform marital activity.

Genesis chapter 19, two angels that pay a visit to Lot’s home in Sodom. In verse four, “all the men from every part of Sodom” surrounded Lot’s house, and told Lot to bring out his visitors “so that we can have sex with them.” homosexual revisionists who like to bastradize the Bible with bullcrap argue that the wickedness of Sodom and Gomorrah was that the residents wanted to commit an act of rape.

That fact the rape would have been homosexual escapes them , In Jude 7 what does it say? Sodom and Gomorrah’s punishment was due to their sexual perversion. Their sin was not simply one of violence (rape) but of sexual immorality. According to your false witness this, it would be hard to quantify unequivocally what the hell that immorality is since the bible doesn't say you can't have sex the way you suggest. (homosexuality). As further evidence of the sinful nature of homosexuality, Leviticus 18:22, and 20:13 both describe homosexuality as “an abomination.”

Paul said for us to honor the marriage bed and keep it pure.

Romans 1:26-27 Paul is very specific, “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.”

The Greek “effeminate” is malakos, means soft to the touch, but is used metaphorically reversed to mean a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man. The “abusers of themselves with mankind”

It doesn't mention thou shal not covet thy neighbors "lover" or boy toy, his homey his bitch but his what?

HIS WIFE

I guess any lover is copasthetic It doesn't say you can't fornicate with your great dane so God must mean thats ok too.

Spare me your mundane platitudes about bigotry and hate when you should be ashamed of yourself. Not for homosexuality but for bearing false witness and endorsing sexual depravity and abominable sin.

You want to talk about being a hero?

Try living with honor and discipline

doing the lords will

and not yours

- Con










[edit on 17-5-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 01:36 AM
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reply to post by Conspiriology
 


Conspiriology nice to see you again


Can you please try and be nice and civil and um...not so offensive sounding? Lets not Sally Kerns this one too, alright? Try and present yourself in such a manner that homosexuals, and others, would actually want to debate and discuss with you.

Your normal "homosexuals are disgusting vile creatures that fornicate with dogs and dead people" just isn't conducive for civil discussion.



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 01:41 AM
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reply to post by sacerd
 


Thanks for coming into it with an open mind!


Can you take some key parts from The Bible that you think clearly support that notion. I'd love to discuss it, just share my thoughts and feelings on interpretations or authenticity, etc.

Also, are you referring to Christs words, OT or NT. All the above?



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 01:42 AM
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reply to post by Conspiriology
 


wow that was rather well put.. and rather longwinded.. jesus didnt say anything about gays.. the attempted rape at sodom and gomorra was the sexual imorality... just like the inqusition use the bad to hate the rest convert or die.. the truth is there to be seen.. our church leaders r supposed to guide us.. not dictate hate...and lets face it jesus went off on the church for its inequities... bible manipulation is the churches domain.. just look how many versions there r and how differently they r written.. and no two denominations view the bible in its entirety..the same way and just because new understanding of it doesnt mean that we r twisting it to our will.. their leaders have done that enough..

[edit on 17-5-2008 by scorand]



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by Conspiriology
 


I see even after pages upon pages of beating the Sodom and Gomorrah story to death, you still don't understand the point.

Rape transcends sexual orientation. When the townsmen wanted to rape the men/angels that was not homosexuality. They were lusting after the prospect of raping them. The fact that you still cannot make the distinction between rape and consensual sex worries me deeply about your overall sense of moral and ethical issues at large.

Come on man, we beat that one to death already.

[edit on 013131p://17u08 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 01:49 AM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


right on lucid. u seem to be well versed in the bible..while i do read it i'm no scholar..lol if i have any questions may i ask u



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