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Does the bible condemn homosexuality?

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posted on May, 17 2008 @ 02:34 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

I don't care what you call me. I don't expect respect





I am also bisexual.


Awe Jeeez Lunacy,, did I ask?? is it any of my business! NO!

You got no class lunacy,,

im outta here

You win

- Con




posted on May, 17 2008 @ 02:36 AM
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Originally posted by drevill
what??? seriously??????????

Romans 1:26-27

for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

marriage? rubbish! this is talking about men and women in general society.

what next? A talmud defense posting??????


The Epsistle to the Romans is written by Paul to a small but growing congregation of Rome. He is speeking merely to Christians telling them not to do the things common in Roman society, for instance having concubines beside marriage of both sexes. Christians should marry their sex partners, and leaving them would be adultary. The verse speeks of people within their congregation who left their spouses to have sex elsewhere. It surely is like the prophet said: They are blind and deaf and won't listen to sense.



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by scorand
reply to post by Conspiriology
 


well i for one have never heard of this other site u'r talking about..


Oh another agent provocateur.

Nice try but I won't post it here as that too gets in trouble

- Con



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 02:43 AM
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i think there is a lot of chuch dogma placed over the scripture to its own agenda for the time.. and i think thats why the church is so divided.. we r supossed to figure out whats what.. as we can plainly see as new understanding comes we view the scripture differently, while jesus never said anything about homosexuality.. remeber he was perfect.. the church wanted to keep its control over the people and wrote a lot to suit themselves. and remember they were only human and therefore less than perfect.. misstranlations, and misunderstanding is rife umong us.. so we must be carefull not to use dogma as a basis for hate, instead of following what jesus said.. and lets face it the church has done it before.. many times.. i truly think that jesus said that he wasnt here to abolish the laws or the prophets because we r supposed to find our way thru all of this by useing our minds, god gave us one so lets use it.. hiding behind dogma is not the way to go...



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 02:43 AM
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Originally posted by drevill
Hello There




God created sexuality and our genes. 10% of us are genetically gay. You find the same pattern more or less everywhere in the animal kingdom. God doesn't condemn gays, he loves them. Statistically one of the twelve sons of Israel would be gay. Wonder who it was...


Nice statistic, where is the proof of this? you will not be be able to prove it because it is pure conjecture. There is NO proof that it is genetic.

all the best

david


en.wikipedia.org... Demographics to show statistic.
en.wikipedia.org... Reasons behind homosexuality, factors making people gay.



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 02:44 AM
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reply to post by drevill
 


There has been lots of evidence, and there continues to be evidence, from various scientific studies. Do you mean proof? You are familiar with the difference between proof and evidence right?

[edit on 023131p://17u57 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 02:45 AM
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reply to post by Conspiriology
 


seriously i have no idea what u r talking about.. if u want to debate the issue that fine.. but dont put me in a catagory that i know nothing about



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 02:46 AM
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reply to post by zysin5
 


hello

can i clarify something for you? I have seen you mention twice about clothing.

this practice of mingling is mentioned along with other things.

not only was a garment made from vegetable and animal weaker than one made from either it also served the purpose of keeping the Israelites in mind of the not mingling of other things also, like breeds of oxen,seed and also onto not mingling outside the house of Israel in marriage etc.

also the prophets were at times asked to wear during times of prophecy against Israel sackcloth (goats wool) was used. a symbol of mourning etc.

there is a solid reason for this command, it wasn't on a whim by God.

all the best

david



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 02:52 AM
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reply to post by Conspiriology
 


God you are such a homophobe lol...

No class? What are you talking about man?

You called me a gay atheist, and I am not either.

I was just clarifying what I was (again) so you would stop saying things about me that are not true. You called me a "gay atheist".

What if I went around threads warning people of you, and I called you a "gay pagan". Would you say anything?

Is it my fault me mentioning I am bisexual causes your brain to explode with imagery? This doesn't happen to my brain when I read these terms. What's going on with you? I think a psychoanalysts would have something to infer here



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 02:54 AM
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reply to post by jbondo
 


Hello there

just like to say this is an excellent way to post what God says about any issue, i think at times we (certainly me) can forget what our words my imply our own thoughts and feelings and this can be misleading and untrue.

I agree that homosexual sex or whatever term is used to describe this is said to be wrong by God and i have to listen to God, I also agree that doesn't mean we shun,spur ,direct hate etc etc towards gay people as they too have the right to here the gospel.

excellent post and praise God for it.

all the best

david



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 02:59 AM
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Originally posted by Conspiriology
while you are busy gettng your team to hit the alerts and various other snitches and tattle tale sophistry, than be my guest.



I have no idea what you are talking about.

Minus the thesaurus for a second, although we share that interest it seems, can you paraphrase it a little more "intuitively". Are you saying I got you in trouble some how?



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 03:05 AM
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Okay I was expecting some of the original posters to come back and help tackle this. Many posters did such a great job earlier, I was hoping they would continue (some are, but most left it seems)! But... it seems the sith outnumber the jedi at the moment


So in an effort to bring balance back to the thread, I will respond to earlier posts (that I was pending on), in which I will attempt to explore the idea of 'mistranslations' and 'historical accuracy' and my personal favorite 'things Jesus Christ actually said and didn't say'. In the meantime, I am getting my second dinner and doing housework.

I look forward to seeing how you guys develop it for and against while I am away




[edit on 033131p://17u59 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 03:51 AM
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reply to post by acegotflows
 



Hello

King james did not change the text

1611 king James Bible

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.



1560 Geneva Bible

22 Thou shalt not lie with the male as one lieth with a woman; for it is abomination.



1532 Miles Coverdale Bible

22 Thou shalt not lye with mankynde as with womankynde, for yt is abhominacion.



1384 John Wycliffes Bible
22 Thou schalt not be medlid with a man bi letcherie of womman, for it is abhomynacioun.



all the best

david



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 03:57 AM
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The science of etymology and the semantics of words both show us what the original meaning of the quotes used to battle homophilia and sustaining hate towards gays which results in the banning and cursing of gays in the churches and congregations is. They all refer to ceremonial misconduct, sex done in an act of religious expression. Since the homophobic assertion is baseless, based on flawed translations and interpretations the Christian hate towards homosexuality in general the gay agenda of the church contains all the basics of a conspiracy.

For the bible doesn't speek about homosexuals at all, it speeks of hethen practises connected to Ba'al worship. Ba'al temples had templeservants who only worked as prostitutes. Believers came into the temple, hired a manwhore and had sex with him at the altar of the Ba'als to honor them. The bible speeks of forbidden acts having to do with unsound religious doctrine, not homosexuals.



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 03:59 AM
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reply to post by drevill
 


King James (aka Queen James) was a bisexual. He was buried with a male lover.

So, using his translation to further your stance against homosexuality is rather... entertaining.



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 04:23 AM
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Originally posted by drevill
King james did not change the text
1611 king James Bible
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.


The Torah is translated from Hebrew, and the word translated Abomination is a word lacking in most European languages, since it has to do with ceremonial sins, not moral sins. Old Greek has this word in it's vocabulary, and the translation in the Septuagint is correct. It translates the passage using a word that means ritually/ceremonially unclean. The same word is used when dealing with laws of food hygiene, the laws concerning the work of the Levites etc. While laws dealing with moral acts, like incest, lying and killing use another word for Abominable meaning morally unsound/unclean.



1560 Geneva Bible

22 Thou shalt not lie with the male as one lieth with a woman; for it is abomination.


Why do you use an English translation of the Geneva Bible? It's in German. Still in German it doesn't translate this passage correctly, since German lacks the same word as English.




1532 Miles Coverdale Bible

22 Thou shalt not lye with mankynde as with womankynde, for yt is abhominacion.

1384 John Wycliffes Bible
22 Thou schalt not be medlid with a man bi letcherie of womman, for it is abhomynacioun.


Your way of research excludes the original MSs of the text. What you do could be compared to explaining Shakespear's impact on the English language by using only German translations. Noone would respect such a survey. If you want to explain the Torah, use Hebrew and feel free to parallell read with the Greek LXX, it's a relatively reliable source being older than most Hebrew MSs. Your effort is worthless, you only quote books based on the Latin Vulgate, with erronomous translations. Below are quotes from the Hebrew and Greek:

VaYikra 20:13 Ve'ish asher yishkav et-zachar mishkevei ishah to'evah asu shneihem mot yumatu dmeihem bam

ואיש אשר ישכב את־זכר משכבי אשה תועבה עשו שניהם מות יומתו
דמיהם בם׃

Leviticus 20:13 και ος αν κοιμηθη μετα αρσενος κοιτην γυναικος βδελυγμα εποιησαν αμφοτεροι θανατουσθωσαν ενοχοι εισιν

Now translate from that using a dictionary. You will learn that the words used discribe ceremonial sins having to do with symbolic sacrifice of a male body through having sex at the altar of Ba'al.



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 04:29 AM
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Why is sex between men discribed as unsound religious doctrine in Leviticus if it has to do with homosexuality? Because sex between men were part of Ba'al doctrine, what the Torah was composed to battle.



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 04:44 AM
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reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 



For the bible doesn't speek about homosexuals at all...

Here, as elsewhere you prove yourself a false witness in full view of everyone.

Alternatively, those who are Christ's true disciples - those who have turned from immorality to live according to God's commandments, rather than continuing to satisfy their immoral lusts - needed to wait all through the ages until you appear to hear you dismiss the Bible's crystal clear teaching that all sexual activity outside male-female marriage is immorality. And of course it has nothing to do with the fact that you practice such things yourself...

People can follow false teachers who twist the Scriptures or they can follow Christ and the apostles he sent.


...certain men, who were designated for this judgement long ago, have come in by stealth; they are ungodly, turning the grace of our God into promiscuity...

...Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them committed sexual immorality and practiced perversions... and serve as an example by undergoing the punishment of eternal fire...

...they [i.e. those who turn the grace of God into promiscuity] are... fruitless, twice dead, pulled out by the roots; wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shameful deeds; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever!

...But you, dear friends, remember the words foretold by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; they told you, "In the end time there will be scoffers walking according to their own ungodly desires"...

Jude verses 4, 7, 12b, 17 & 18

Furthermore, you are as adept at twisting the apostle Paul's writings as the Old Testament. This is what the apostle Peter wrote:


...our dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you. He speaks about these things in all his letters, in which are some matters that are hard to understand. The untaught and unstable twist them to their own destruction, as they also do with the rest of the Scriptures.

Therfore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard, so that you are not led away by the error of the immoral...

2 Peter 3:15b-17a

You are not a neo-christian mystic, you are a 'scoffer walking according to your own ungodly desires', pretending to be a Christian, twisting the Scriptures and turning the grace of God into promiscuity.

This would be very apt as your signature.

[edited to add:] I have just looked at your current signature, which begins -
"Why do you look for the living among the dead?" Luke 24:5

How apt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[edit on 17/5/08 by pause4thought]



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 04:52 AM
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reply to post by Howie47
 


I said:

The New Testament Scriptures I quoted demonstrate that to claim to belong to Christ and practice lawlessness, whether in terms of immorality or anything else, makes that person a liar.

You responded directly to this by saying:


Let us not get "testy" pause4thought. For that would be out of the spirit and in the flesh.


No, I was referring back to the Scripture I had already presented:

This is how we are sure that we have come to know Him: by keeping His commands. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," without keeping His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 2:3&4

I was not being 'testy' I was thinking and teaching Biblically, the very opposite of acting in a fleshly manner.



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 05:03 AM
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So why is sex between men described as unsound religious practise or forbidden religious doctrine then? How can homosexuality be a religious doctrine? Because it's not homosexuality which is described, but sex between men in Ba'alism, the religion that soaked the ME in the time the Torah was written. The Torah is the Law that forbids Ba'alism, therefore it also forbids the Ba'al doctrine demanding symbolic male sacrifice at the altar of Ba'al, done by the men haing sex with male prostitutes before the priests and congregation.

A more corret translation of Leviticus 20:13 would include a correct translation of "to'ebah" which means ritually, ceremonial or doctrinally unclean:

"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have committed themselves to unclean doctrine.

or

"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them are doctrinally unclean."

or

"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have joined an abominable religion."

It is impossible to translate to'ebah with one word in English and most European languages, since we lack a word for to'ebah. Still most translations in European languages use a single word, abomination, instead of containing words discribing how this abominable act has to do with ceremonial or doctrinal sins.

[edit on 17/5/2008 by Neo Christian Mystic]



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