God created sexuality and our genes. 10% of us are genetically gay. You find the same pattern more or less everywhere in the animal kingdom.

Your argument is completely illogical. All humans have impulses that vary in degree and in nature. Joe down the steet may have an inclination to screw animals, Sally an inclination to screw her sister and Mike a predisposition to murder, et cetera. It doesn't matter if they were born that way, or conditioned that way. It's all wrong. And one of the reasons why the Bible exists is to give mankind some kind of moral standard that's separate from your personal moral compass.

That is the most rediculous interpretation of Biblical reasoning that I have ever heard.
In the Ten Commandments, adultery is clearly stated as a sin. (Please learn how to spell "adultery".) No further explanation is necessary to make clear that adultery is, IN FACT, wrong. Homosexuality is also stated as WRONG in the bible and other religious texts. These "blind-folded preachers" you discuss are commonly opening their doors to homosexuals in hope that they will see the realilty of their actions. Just as churches don't close thier doors to Liars and Coveters, they won't exclude homosexuals. In the spirit that repentance is possible and that people can change their ways for the better, the church accepts homosexuals with compassion. It does not CONDONE homosexuality, just as it does not condone adultery, etc. And 10% is a stretch. Just because every television show has tons of gay characters doesnt mean every American community is the same way. I personally have nothing against homosexuals, however I do recognize that the practice is a sin. But who am I to judge them? We are ALL sinners, and nobody has the right to condemn people except God Himself.

Originally posted by jbondo

All this over a book written by primitive men trying to create a society where they would be in charge. There's nothing "holy" about the Bible. It's a book of myths, astrology, and so-called "laws" handed down from "God" through "Prophets" and such. Seriously, if someone today, right here in the modern world, declared they were a "Prophet" and spouted all kinds of new "laws" God wanted us to follow, would you believe him?

Or would you have him committed to the loony bin?

Be honest.

Furthermore, as a Christian I must recognize both old and new testaments. It doesn't matter that one was before Christ or not. If it were not relevant in teaching it wouldn't be in the Bible.

And who decides what's in the Bible?

You can call me anything you wish but those that know me also know that I am not biased against any person. I cannot however support a lifestyle I know to be wrong. There is no hatred or avoidance involved

Oh yes there is. Considering your assertions of homosexuality as a choice are scientifically incorrect, and that it is a genetic factor the same as race, calling it "wrong" is tantamount to bigotry. That's a painful thing to hear and I'm sure you'll refute it wholeheartedly, but I for one am convinced by the Science. Homosexuality IS Genetic. If you consider homosexuality "wrong" you are guilty of racism, same as if you said black or hispanic people are "bad" by nature of their birth.

I believe fear has more influence on this topic than one would like to believe. Homosexuals like, let's say sharks are a cause for fear in some cities, towns etc... where previously there was little to no gay residents (yeah right!).

My only question regarding this topic is: If being gay is a sin is it a sin to appreciate works created by gays? If so how many people have looked with admiration unto a religious painting or artifact, that has possibly been fabricated by a homosexual? Is that a sin? I would really be interested to know how many religious artworks have been created by homosexuals and there possible location.


-Cuauhtemoc

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
I personally have nothing against homosexuals, however I do recognize that the practice is a sin.

This statement makes you a bigot.

But who am I to judge them?

In "recognizing that the practice is a sin" you do exactly that. It IS a judgment.

We are ALL sinners, and nobody has the right to condemn people except God Himself.

Assuming God even exists. As for the public policy debate, homosexuality's "legitimacy" cannot and should not be based on religious belief. That's why we have a Separation of Church and State.

what is sin besides the have's telling the have nots how to live their lives???

its condemned in the old testament, it depends on the wording of the bible you are reading, it is explicit that it is a sin, theres no doubt about it. however, to each its own, only God can judge someone and their lifestyle not man.

Originally posted by esseen
its condemned in the old testament, it depends on the wording of the bible you are reading, it is explicit that it is a sin, theres no doubt about it. however, to each its own, only God can judge someone and their lifestyle not man.

which text? Original text before all the wording got changed to King James' liking? It all reeks of BS to me. Doesn't even go along with the message of God. Love except if they are homosexual, different color, poor, or of different religious background. RIGHT.

But then again just my opinion...

Ludicrous, but here I am chiming in.
Give it up gay people. No matter how you twist the Old Testament you're not going to get it to say that Butt sex bwteen two dudes or women penetrating and giving each other whatever isn't classified as sin.
(Man, it doesn't matter what version. This is a no-brainer. Gayness is bad for a community/culture concerned with perpetuating itself, for obvious reasons and the Hebrews thought it would be a good idea to formalize their observations.)

But take heart. Jesus said that you'll be judged by different criteria than ol' fire and brimstone Jehovah would've before. So you're fine.

Yes, homosexual behavior is found in the animal kingdom. But usually only when resources and space is limited. resources includes availability of mates. You know, prison sex stuff. You've got a pretty mouth etc.

No matter what, you're not going to make a case for it being normal beahvior. If so we wouldn't have sexual dimorphism. It's a genetic strategy for getting a good gene mix.

I am not judging anyone. You can rrub feces all over your genitals for all I care, but you will not get me to say the behavior has any purpose or isn't deviant. Nor will you get me to say that any thriving productive human organization in the past viewed it as OK. Those that did are gone.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by djerwulfe]

Originally posted by djerwulfe
I am not judging anyone.

Yes you are. You're just too cowardly to admit that you're a bigot. Homosexuality is genetic, plain and simple, same as race. Split hairs all you want by saying "hate the sin not the sinner" but in the end, it's still bigotry. Homosexuals are BORN homosexual. Science has proved it. To deny a group of people who are born differently from what you consider "normal" basic human rights all others in this country share is criminal and, essentially, racist. To do so based on religious belief is un-Constitutional. There is NO rational basis for the denial of rights to homosexuals and anyone who would disagree with this basic principle is a bigot, no if's, and's, or but's.

the same people who call to their GOD of abraham isaac jacob etc, usually keep things behind closed doors and at the same time condemn them in public. Child molestation in the church, NOT JUST CATHOLIC. is a prefect example. How natural is it to tell a man that he can't be with a woman, but share the word of God which paints the virgin Mary in a high light.

GET THE TRUE STORY OF Sodom and Gamorrah.

It's the way of control by making up down, and operating in shades of gray, while at the same time only painting black and white to be correct.

I'm not gay or straight or any of that. Labels are a way of control, used for A LONG TIME to stratify societies. Look into the underground laboratories of New Orleans and how they cooked up cancerous diseases to kill many, blaming homosexuals and gays for Aids and likened it to a curse from God. All a sham

It's the same concept that paints certain people in the "LIGHT" while others in the "DARK" so to speak.

IF one is going to consider the old testiment, why not consider the apocrypha? It's not readily there for a reason.

It's too small a scope to call homosexuality a sin, the condemnation of one man to another man is a sin in itself, as well as spreading that message, IF one believes in the Bible...

I just love the liberal stance on morals. Twist scripture to fit your own beliefs and if it doesn't then you either explain it away or dismiss it as fictional.

There are those who like to say that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality. Various verses are cited (out of context) and the verses that people use to show that homosexuality is wrong are explained away. The world wants to change God's words and meanings into something more suitable to its sinful desires. Nevertheless, the truth stands: The Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin. Let's look at what it says.

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God. He created Adam and then made a woman. This is what God has ordained and it is what is right. Unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: They are given over to their passions. That means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:18ff). As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing. Without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation.

What should be the Christian's Response to the Homosexual?

Just because someone is a homosexual does not mean that we cannot love him (or her) or pray for him (her). Homosexuality is a sin and like any other sin, it needs to be dealt with in the only way possible. It needs to be laid at the cross, repented of, and never done again.
As a Christian, you should pray for the salvation of the homosexual the same you would any other person in sin. The homosexual is still made in the image of God -- even though he is in grave sin. Therefore, you should show him same dignity as anyone else you come in contact with. However, this does not mean that you are to approve of their sin. Don't compromise your witness for a socially acceptable opinion that is void of godliness.

If you are not a Christian then why are you so worried about what the Bible says? You call us bigots because we stand on the word of God, go ahead then, you can call me a bigot all day long if you want to. That won't change the fact that the Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin.

I'm not going to read all the post and threads on this subject. But I will add my two cents.
Christian's are no longer under the old law, even the 10 commandments.
Christ's only law for Christians, was to love your brother as you love yourself. That kind of love isn't exclusive. It must include everyone.
We are not to do anything that offends are brother, or causes him to stumble. (cause them to think God or you don't love them). Thus Paul said. "hast thou faith, let not your faith (to eat the unclean), become a stumbling stone for others" "keep it to yourself".
Christ was often speaking of interring the Kingdom of heaven, here on earth. He even told his disciples to "go preach the kingdom of heaven". and that, "the kingdom of heaven had come." If you want to enter the kingdom of heaven now on earth. The law and the prophets are the narrow gate, you pass through. Every thing else you allow yourself; as Paul said, will be a loose for Christ. and a loose of part of the kingdom for you! Doesn't it say, that those who practice such, "will be made servants of servants"?!
Bottom line. Homosexuality should be viewed as a perversive behavior. If someone cannot contain themselves, then they should keep such behavior secret. Remembering that such labels them as having a
fallen nature! Which we all have to some degree. Which we should wrestle against and not advertise as a good thing!
Remember this, those of us that would judge your brotheren. "let him that is without sin cast the first stone"!

[edit on 16-5-2008 by Howie47]

Originally posted by esseen
its condemned in the old testament, it depends on the wording of the bible you are reading, it is explicit that it is a sin, theres no doubt about it.

Not so explicit when it "depends on the wording of the Bible you are reading"!

Can you elaborate on how and where it's explicit so we can discuss?

[edit on 023131p://16u55 by Lucid Lunacy]

he skipped it anyways

[edit on 033131p://16u35 by Lucid Lunacy]

I wlll reply to this really quick.

Furthermore, as a Christian I must recognize both old and new testaments. It doesn't matter that one was before Christ or not.

Okay, but what about the Christian's New Covenant?

If it were not relevant in teaching it wouldn't be in the Bible.

So then what did you think about the OT Law that was already discussed in this thread? Do you follow it? Do you find the teachings relevant?

How many people did you kill that worked on the last Sabbath Day? As the OT commands of you.

And remember, you are allowed to beat your slave, so long as he gets up after two days. Yeah, that's OT as well.