Together We Can Put an End to Religious/Ideological Bigotry at ATS!

Originally posted by darkelf
I doubt that anyone who has a belief thinks that their belief is the wrong one. Of course we think we are right! This is why we have our beliefs. We all tend to believe we are right. However, many of us are open to challenging our beliefs. I have learned that I no longer believe in many things I was taught as a child. Challenging your own belief systems creates growth as a human.

Allowing ourselves to be challenged about any belief allows for both spiritual and intellectual growth, and IMO is part of the reason ATS exists/continues to thrive and grow. It really does boil down to how things are conveyed to others. I enjoy being challenged by ideas and beliefs that opposite to my own, but I don't like feeling that I need to avoid any thread that is about religion because whatever my opinion may be will be rejected and attacked immediately. Thank you for continuing to post.

reply to post by bugs_n_recovery


Rock on bugs_n_recovery. Thank you for returning, and putting forth a sentiment that is the very heart of this thread. Agreeing to disagree, any and all of us can agree with that. Hope to see you around.

Thank you to those who have posted for the first time in this thread. The fact that you are here says a lot. We have a lot of good points. There are even some that I disagree with, but for the most part the way they were conveyed is quite commendable. Good job.

There is some hints of a coming disconnect between those who have already participated, and I would ask that we keep the gap closed while we still can.

[edit on 15-5-2008 by Osiris1953]

Originally posted by bugs_n_recovery
darkelf ...your open mindedness reminds me of myself, and to all of you we can agree to disagree

Thanks, I think. I try to be open minded, but at the end of the day, I know what I believe and why I believe it. I have no problem agreeing to disagree with anyone. I think this thread is turning into a good example of how to and how not to address emotionally hot threads.

It looks like this thread is about to die faster than Molly Ringwald's career. Hopefully more will take the time to read, think, and reply. I would hate to see it fall flat so quickly..... but ATS members are rather fickle. Only time will tell.

reply to post by Osiris1953

You started this thread with the best of intentions, however it seems as though there may be some who would rather not engage in rational, intellegent conversations concerning this topic.

Maybe some are just not interested in hearing the ideas of others on this topic. And to others it just may not be exciting enough when people are not at each other's throats. For those that seriously want to hear what other's have to say about thier beliefs with an open mind, i guess there just aren't enough of us.

I think maybe some people don't want to hear others views on this topic because it makes them question thier own beliefs, and for some that is hard to accept. I personally believe that if another's beliefs make me question my own, then there may be something to thier beliefs. And it's is also a good thing imo as it means that i still have an open mind, and am still capable of learning and accepting new ideas.

Maybe the thread will pick up again. If it doesn't i would like to Thank You for making the effort.

Actually, I think what needed to be said was said. The only thing now is for others to find there way here and read. There is really little to debate, and repeating the same thing isn't much of a discussion.

All things end in truth. Sadly, it seems, this thread will end as well as truth has been spoken. Now it must lay in wait for others to find.

I have bookmarked this thread for use the next time I am involved in a “religious” thread that gets derailed or turned into a flamefest.

I am still relatively new to ATS, and I have engaged in a few of these type of topics, and I know some of you on this thread (like jimbo) were on some of those threads too. I hope that the answers or comments (with the exception of one I got mad on, which was my mis-understanding) were done with conviction of my Christian beliefs, but also posted within the context of the topic, and did not demean those who believe differently.

As a poster above said, a Bible believing Christian has commands to go into the world and preach and teach of Jesus. Not to condemn others, not to judge them, not to demean and denegrate. If those other 'beliefs' - IF, IF - are necessary to be denegrated or punished or anything like that, I believe it is God's business, not mine.

He doesn't task me with proving His existence, nor of defending His Word. Rather, I am taught to tell others about Him, and if they choose to ignore it, rebuff it, or be antagonistic to it, then so be it. Now here may be what some refer to as "bigoted", but again, if I believe the Bible, then it says GOD, not me, will deal with anyone rejecting him.

I hope that any of my posts on like subjects have reflected this attitude I am not judging or condemning, but answering and teaching as I understand it, and that I could be wrong, and am willing to be corrected where I err away from scriptural teachings. If I have not reflected that in my posts, then I am not doing my job, and I apologize to God for my failure to do what He asks me to do, in the correct state of mind.

[edit on 19-5-2008 by TrailGator]

reply to post by Osiris1953


It seems strange that you would post such a long post with a "let's come together theme" and then laugh at the thought that someone believes in Osiris. I know many that do. Also, I agree that what you propose boils down to censorship.

reply to post by yourrolemodel


Actually I laughed at the fact that I mentioned Osiris because my screen name is Osiris. It was supposed to be an evil little giggle to make it seem that I was only mentioning Osiris because of obvious reasons. It was a joke. I'm entitled to a few of them now and then.

I realize that people still believe in Osiris, and my screen name including the numbers has to do with what the cult of Osiris currently believes. They believe that Osiris will be re-incarnated sometime after 1953, and will begin preaching as an ordinary human within the next few years. I thought it was an interesting story and it became my screenname. The "eh he he" really was just a joke.

As far as censorship, once again, I am not in the position to censor anyone, nor would I if I had the chance. I'm simply asking that people treat each other with respect, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

reply to post by Osiris1953


Hey if anyone looked into it my avatar is RA the sun god! My reason for having this avatar is very far from religion, it's simply something that happened earlier in my life.

A name does not show your intentions or your beliefs. If anyone wants me to explain my name i'm happy to do so, i warn you it's boring.

My point is a name means very little online or in real life, sometimes it does mean something but you shouldn't judge solely on a name until you have asked.

Every culture in every millennium has had a means to deal with the mysterious and death. Christianity is but one of thousands and thousands - hence if you do not believe in the "Rainbow Serpent" or the Dream Time of Australian Aboriginals, The Cargo Cults in Melanesia, Thor or God - there is no difference what so ever. So for a person to believe in one religion at the expense of all others is to say that they are %99.999 percent atheist.

To simply pick one fantastic story out of the thousands and claim it to be true for no other reason beyond indoctrination and "sense" of something more, curiosity, is profoundly simple minded.

Further, Christianity is particularly heinous in that it not only selects a particular God over all others but actively pursues the denial of all others including none. So how can a thread like this even exist, Christianity explicitly (as do all Abrahamic faiths) casts atheists as heretics and we have been, and especially in a America, are profoundly vilified for their beliefs.

This type of thread is deeply concerning for its Machiavellian undertones. People have not just the right, but the moral obligation to fight tyranny, injustice, prejudice, intolerance, hatred and oppression when ever it occurs and there is NOTHING worse than organised Christian religion. It is synonymous with human suffering.

reply to post by Osiris1953


Your name... man, that's what happens when I don't get enough sleep. I agree that everyone should respect each other's beliefs. What happens though when my beliefs are that you should eliminate the infidels? Should you have to respect my belief even if you are an infidel and I'm actively eliminating your kind? It would be my belief after all.

oops Osiris....this thread by bigbert has done it again....
www.abovetopsecret.com...
so much for tolerance.

reply to post by TrailGator


Sorry it took so long to respond.... but I've been busy lately. I think that bigbert wasn't being intolerant of other religions so much as being appalled by the separation of church and state being ignored. The separation of church and state is essential in order to keep personal bias to a minimum. It in and of itself is a protocol to make sure that people aren't forcing their religious beliefs onto others. It's not fool proof of course, but helpful. The situation wouldn't be as bad if the creation beliefs of other religions were also represented, but in the end, it's not appropriate, and should not be allowed. It's not intolerance. If you want your child to be taught creationism, send them to a Christian school, teach them yourself, or allow them to learn in Sunday school. Everyone has the right to believe whatever they like, and I respect that, but I don't think that my religious beliefs or anyone else's should be taught in a public school.

[It's time for us to say that we will represent our respective religions in a "lead by example" kind of way. ]

YES that would be a perfect UTOPIAN WORLD then right here at ATS ...
And we certainly would accomplish a whole lot and get to the bottom of the TRUTH about everything then wouldnt we ?
One could only dream of this though ..since so many are really just wanting to ONE UP on another (as you so very well pointed out)
Why cant we just stop that and care for EACHOTHER AS MUCH as we CARE ABOUT OURSELF ..that would be a really great start wouldnt it ?

Star for your post ..

I believe sincerely that if we spend more time examining our motives, there would be much less intolerance.

Can either side say truly that their life has improved having spread fear, hate, anger or discord?

The only ends these ideas serve is an attempt to control and quiet the other side. And what is the result of that? No mind is changed, and animosity breeds in such dark places. Is anyone smarter for being called "stupid"?

I don't mean to say that anyone has to like anyone else, or that they even have to appreciate other beliefs. Really, in the end, out of respect for ourselves and others, we can simply walk away.

Thanks for posting you two. You make some excellent points, it is all about respect for what others think.


And here I thought this thread was dead.

reply to post by Osiris1953


For this thread to have died religious bigotry would have had to of died...

*puts on his ring of gyges and vanishes*