Together We Can Put an End to Religious/Ideological Bigotry at ATS!

For all of those who argue science, I think it is important to realize that science cannot explain consciousness. I think we really have no idea why we have it, and religion and science both make arguements, but neither knows with certainty.


"There is, however, one very serious anomaly that everyone accepts, and that the current superparadigm is at a complete loss to explain -- namely, our own consciousness. Even if we were able to account for paranormal phenomena within the current worldview, and even if we were able to trace the neurophysiological correlates of every conscious experience, there would still remain the thorny question of consciousness itself.

There is nothing in the physical sciences that predicts living systems should have any form of inner experience. Furthermore, there is no easy way to explain how consciousness can arise from inanimate matter. Yet the evidence for the existence of consciousness is irrefutable.

If there is nothing we are more certain of than consciousness; there is also nothing that is harder to explain. Consciousness seems to have no place at all in the space-time-matter-energy framework of the contemporary science. This is the paradox of consciousness. Science exists only because of consciousness, yet consciousness is not to be found anywhere in science. Scientists find themselves in the strange position of being confronted daily by the indisputable fact of their own consciousness, yet with no means to account for it. "
Source : www.peterrussell.com...

reply to post by bugs_n_recovery

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That’s because they never played EverQuest. I know people who think that my gaming (I play Star Wars Galaxy now) is very unchristian. I should be spending that time reading my Bible, helping others, etc. . . . They believe that they are right and I am wrong. I have no problem with that. I was still an avid EQ player when I first came to this site. I think we spend too much time worrying about silly stuff that what truly matters.

I normally don’t take an issue to people using science against faith. Faith is what it is. If you had proof, it wouldn’t be faith. I have a saying I use for Christians who get frustrated with trying to show proof for their beliefs: For the Christian no explanation is necessary, for the non-Christian no explanation is enough. This is not to be condescending to non-Christians, but one of those “you have to be there to get it.” I know some of you can’t get there from here and that is ok. Those who truly seek God have probably found Him. Those who haven’t are not to be denigrated for seeking their own path.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

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This answer is to you and thillygooth, but i reply to you as you expanded on the original question. My beliefs are based on love. I was not taught to fear God, because he was vengeful, etc, rather i was taught that he had great love for me. I have had several experiences in my life that have strengthed this belief.

I do not speak to others about my spiritual beliefs unless they ask me, or unless we are on the subject of spirituality. When i do speak to others i speak of the love that i feel that God and Jesus have for us, not the supposed reprocustions of our actions or lack of belief. There are things in the bible that i am uncomfortable with, as well as things that i do not believe, and things that scare me. Im not into all that fire and brimstone mess and you must do this and you must do that. I don't believe that thier is any "ONE" right way or path, every one must choose thier own path to whatever higher being that they believe in, or not as the case may be.

To both of you good question.

Well, I have to agree with ya. I myself am guilty of this, and I will do my best to see it their way. Like the saying goes "if you dont have nothing nice to say"......... I am going to take a weird approach and I will believe everyone.....Then look it up and study a issue for myself.

reply to post by Osiris1953

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I don't usually weigh in on this kind of thing because I believe in a God that allows for all other belief systems, basically, If you are interested in becoming one with Him, then you take the steps necessary to do that..
Personally I understand what you are talking about Osiris1953, your point of all the Hatred being thrown around is a good one and I also see and agree with your view about having a board where people can debate anything without getting personal, if cheap shots are being taken, then it's only because one or both sides really haven't found all possible relative information to debate with, and it's taken personal and the hash starts flying and getting really personal..
I believe in one thing and one thing that stands above all my other reasoning and belief, All people ARE equal, and no matter what we say or do, there's Nothing in this world that can change that..All men, all women, all religions, all Non-religions, all people, no matter what race, creed, sex or orientation, are equal in this world, because of one unifying thing, and that is this(it's very simple..We all bleed the SAME blood, like blood types there are many, and many others inside the many, but it's all still blood, it's all still red, and it's all keeping us alive..
I hope that this board sees one other thing that unifies us all, because we all came here for the exact same reason, we all know there's something more out there than we have been told, and/or shown, and it's driving us to be here, like a splinter in our minds it drives us to seek the truth and other points of view, so we can see, and maybe even believe that there are other intelligences out there besides our own, ones that know a different world or see ours from a whole different perspective.. I hope this ends the hatred, because we all need to take a step back and realize that we are ALL SEEKING THE TRUTH TO WHAT OUR WORLD/UNIVERSE REALLY IS..
:up

Its threads like this one which makes me wish for a DE-Star button.

there is no substantial reparte'... the Reason (for OP) is purely for "Showcasing" ones self
and perhaps looking at the world through rose-colored-glasses.

Ever heard the Jim Croche song that has the line...
"... don't spit into the wind"...
well, that's whats being accomplished here with this topic...


Christians are commanded, exhorted to 'spread the gospel'
as a duty of their Born-Again Faithfullness,
Christian dogma says anyone not Chrisatrian is 'Lost' & 'Heathen'...

so, as a consequence of Christian theology,
there is NO quarter for the other 2/3rd's of the Earth's population !!

and if a Christian does not nicely berate a non-believer, and mildly evangelize or prostelize to one's own capacity...then they too are considered 'luke-warm' followers of the faith.

If they give me no-quarter..... they should expect the same !
civility couched in hdden meaning language is like a turd with a bow-ribbon on it




[edit on 15-5-2008 by St Udio]

reply to post by St Udio

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Dood. That is SUCH a strawman argument.
I would be impressed if I haven't seen it a million times before.


[edit on 15-5-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Very well said Mr. Moderator. And I agree completely. You must have one hell of a tough job trying to moderate this forum - but I appreciate your efforts. Leave the Soapboxing for sundays, I say - use this forum for something far more elevated and substantial...

J.

UNforunately, and ironically too I might add, this thread is rapidly devolving into another 'this is my faith - that is your faith' mud-slinging match - as usual. I think you've made an heroic effort in trying to bring some sort of sanity to this forum, and that is highly commendable.

However, as always seems to be the case here, some still insist on turning this forum into a bizarre religious, dogmatic feud!

Great try though

J.



[edit on 15-5-2008 by jimbo999]

Not true. I agree with the OP that there is too much name calling and dissention among posters that takes away from the subject matter. We can discuss a topic with out making personal observations about the poster.



Again, I disagree. We as a community are trying to come together to determine how we can discuss a topic. Not attack, preach or accuse, simply discuss.



Do you believe that people who are on this site and are not Christains are that way simply because they have never heard the Word? Or is it perhaps that they have heard and have made a decision to not believe. If God allows for everyone to have free will in this decision, is it wrong for us to allow them to make their own decision? Why is it necessary to call those who do not believe the same as you lost and heathen simply because the Bible does?



I’m not sure where you are going with this.



Where in the Bible does it state that we are to berate non-believers nicely or otherwise? This is the reason for this thread. These people do not need to be preached to or evangelized. They are fully capable of making their own decisions. As Christians, it is not our place to wave a Bible in front of their nose and tell them they are going to hell. They simply do not believe it and all the preaching in the world is not going to change that.



Ok, I think I know where you are coming from. I am not advocating that anyone deny their faith or pretend that they have no beliefs. I don’t advocate couching hidden meanings in any post. I am a Christian and have made that clear in many of my post. I try to not retaliate against people who respond to my post with venom. I offer scripture whenever it will make my beliefs clear. I don’t use the Bible like a hammer, rather I use it as a support.

The whole point of this thread is to learn how we may discuss religious topics without resorting to evangelizing, criticizing and attacking others. If people want a sermon, they’ll go to church.

I think religion is good for people if it leads them down a path of goodness

I went to church as a kid then grew out of it..i think as long as you know the basics and are good then you're good to go


I believe in myself.my parents who created me and if/when i find out which exact aliens(gods) created us i will believe in them


Religion can be bad as well(mind control,extremism and another form to seperate the human race from each other)

comes down to whatever makes you happy imo.

You know...........
I think it all boils down to the idea that you don't have to agree with someone in order to respect them.

Some for whatever reason, simply can't or won't. And I think everyone (most likely me included) need to a long good gaze in the mirror because it's altogether possible that you could be one of those, just not know it. And some know it but think they are justified, when there really is NO good justification if you really think about it.

And I remember someone saying something about censorship. It's not censorship to ask someone to control the one person they really could have control of, themselves.
Some words are better not spoken.
Or do you think allowing Hitler to speak as he did was a good thing?
Don't get me wrong. I am against external censorship of any sort as it stifles creativity.
But things like the extreme of Hitler's hate laced rheotoric should NOT be allowed and some of the things said here are in that ballpark, even if its just the "kiddie pool" section.

And remember he didn't talk about killing the Jews at first. The "Final Solution" didn't come til later.
And that is the road some of the rhetoric I have seen said here is on.
It's no where we should go again.

[edit on 15-5-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Sorry for the double post, don't know what happened. This is not a one line reply, it's an apology for a mistake.

reply to post by St Udio

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I'm not quite sure how I'm showcasing myself. If it seems that way I'm sorry.

I believe that you are making broad generalizations about what Christianity is, which, as you can see in this very thread, Christianity has a very different meaning from person to person. There is a good portion of them that don't fit into the stereotype that you have made abundantly clear.

Don't get me wrong.... you are welcome here much like everyone else that has contributed so far. All I ask is that you don't return with any more hostility. I would like you to share your opinions in a civil manner. Which is really the point of this whole thread.

Please use this thread to express your opinions, just please do so in a mature manner.

Thank you for this. I agree the personal attacks must be set aside. I am starting to see a subtle trend that might be a signal that this thread will end up being something completely contrary to what it should be. Which IMO would be very disheartening indeed.

darkelf ...your open mindedness reminds me of myself, and to all of you we can agree to disagree

reply to post by thillygooth

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Yes it is a great question, partially because of it's humble honesty. Hopefully people will continue to provide their individual answers to the query. Thank you for your contribution.