Together We Can Put an End to Religious/Ideological Bigotry at ATS!

I have noticed during my relatively short tenure here at ATS we have what could be considered a pretty decent cross section of our world in general. We have people of every race, ideological stance, religion, belief structure, political party, etc. Within these categories we have people that represent both the positive and negative sides of each.

We discuss wars, poverty, environmental concerns, alien abductions, government conspiracies, paranormal activity, and religion.

We have all met people that are perfect reflections of our own views as well as people that are our polar opposites.

We have met people who we can strive to be like, as well as the type of people we try to distance ourselves from.

We meet people who are intelligent, thoughtful, and insightful.

We also meet people who are ignorant, bigoted, and close minded.

In the end we are what the world is: conflicted, multi-faceted, horrific, and sometimes idyllic.

It's all about perspective, and everyone is entitled to their own.

Which brings me to the subject at hand. I have noticed that many people including myself have been unhappy with the recent wave of religious intolerance at ATS. Many of us are guilty of feeding into the frenzy, and at certain points, I have been guilty of it myself. Sometimes when we have an issue with someone instead of dealing with the problem or issue at hand we use what we know about the person to take the cheapest shots possible. It is time for us as a community to say enough is enough.

I have seen topics that have been quite prevalent and controversial come and go at ATS. When I started visiting ATS on a regular basis it seemed like everyone was battling about reptilians. Do they exist? Do they not exist? Are the people who people who believe in them delusional? Everyone had their own opinions, and everyone was battling. At times it got quite heated and sometimes vicious. Along the way other topics seemed to take the spotlight, andget everyone riled up, and to a certain extent that is healthy. It challenges us to see thing from someone else's perspective. It helps to push us out of our respective comfort zones and maybe, just maybe learn something about each other.

Now what I've seen is threads whose entire purpose seems to be to tick off the religious opposition. Most of the time it's atheists vs. Christians, but I have seen others. IMO religion is one of the most personal, important things to a person and faith in whatever religion that may be is something that should be respected. The religious arguments I have seen as of late have been nothing but destructive. It has become a constant contest to see what group can one up the other. When you push your religious beliefs or lack there of it only makes the other party more close minded to your point of view than they already may have been.

It's easier to destroy than to create. It's time for us to say that we will represent our respective religions in a "lead by example" kind of way. It's time to store the verbal battle maces back into the metaphorical closet. It's time to ask open and honest questions about what each other believes. It's time to discuss possible conspiracies in religions without condemning the religion being discussed. It's time for us to say that though we have people here who believe in Christ, Buddha, Allah, Amaterasu, Osiris (eh he he), and many many other gods, goddesses/spiritual paths that we will give them the respect that fellowhuman beings deserve. That we will allow whatever higher being exists to judge us, and not spend our time judging each other. It's time to understand that even if we don't believe in any god or religion that it is ok for others to believe in whatever their heart tells them to believe, whether it makes sense or not.

This thread is an opportunity for everyone of all belief structures to come together in a spirit of reconciliation. Ideally it will be somewhere where people can discuss religion and our differences in a civil, respectful, non-judgmental manner. It can be a place to apologize to each other, to find common ground outside of religion, to learn what makes each other tick. A place to say it's ok that everyone is different, and we can learn something from each other. Maybe we can't, even united, change the state of the world, our respective countries, states, counties, or even cities, but we can come together and say that we have had enough of the religious and ideological bigotry here at ATS. That we can put aside some of the religious ignorance and discuss some of the other conspiracies and problems facing us as people.

Unfortunately I need to be away from my computer for the next couple hours, but please do not let that hinder any discussion. I will be back later.

Make this thread something we can all be proud of.

reply to post by Osiris1953


So what you are saying is end the religion debunking? That would mean you are censoring all the Atheists, Agnostics and people from the other religions. Censorship is something that should not be tolerated in ATS. Yes we have an endless fight between Atheists/Christians,or Creationists/Evolutionists, but that is what makes this forum better then any other.

If I went to a Christian forum and tried to debunk their religion then I would be booted out. Same with any other religion. Atheists already get censored enough as it is. So with all due respect if you do not like the religion forum then there are many other boards on ATS you can search.

reply to post by Osiris1953


This seems to be a rant, rather than a cure for the way you see this Conspiracies in Religions board run.

There are options available to you if you don't agree with what some people posting have to say.

1) an ignore feature
2) you can alert the staff about an offensive post

If you don't like using those options, then maybe this particular board on ATS is not for you.

I really don't think you are approaching this issue, which I do think is an issue, with unbiasedness and objectivity. The religious on ATS are plenty guilty, as much if not more, of intolerance and judging others. They just pass it off as "judging the sin and not the sinner".

If you don't see that I can link plenty of threads were this is more then evident.

[edit on 033131p://14u03 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by Equinox99


post by Osiris1953


So what you are saying is end the religion debunking? That would mean you are censoring all the Atheists, Agnostics and people from the other religions. Censorship is something that should not be tolerated in ATS. Yes we have an endless fight between Atheists/Christians,or Creationists/Evolutionists, but that is what makes this forum better then any other.

If I went to a Christian forum and tried to debunk their religion then I would be booted out. Same with any other religion. Atheists already get censored enough as it is. So with all due respect if you do not like the religion forum then there are many other boards on ATS you can search.

I didn’t see that at all. What I think Osiris is getting at is we can debunk the topic rather than the poster. I love a good religious discussion. What I don’t like is a post that demeans Atheists, Agnostics, Christians, or believers of any other system. As a diverse community we need to stay focused on the topic.

I could start a thread on the antichrist and in a few pages it would devolve into a heated flame fest on whether Christians or Atheists were the most stupid for what they believe. Then we would have the drive-by post with various statements attacking posters without adding anything to the discussion. The one line posts that simply say Christians or Atheists with the emoticons are useless in that they only sever to demean and not add anything to the post.

This is a discussion forum with high standards. We need to start living up to those standards rather than stooping below them.

reply to post by darkelf


Thank you darkelf, you have summed up exactly what this thread is about. I'm not in the position to censor anyone, nor would I want to. I'm asking for civility, and respect for others. That's it, it's really what it boils down to. Thanks for responding.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Of course I have my own opinions and if those became evident throughout the original post I apologize. It was in fact my intention to be as unbiased as possible. Yes some parties may be more guilty than others, but I'm not here to point fingers at any one group in particular because that wouldn't work to solving anything.

reply to post by Osiris1953


This particular forum has long ago become little more than a soapbox for religious fundementalists, bible-thumpers, and sermonisers, I'm afraid. It's supposed to be for 'conspiracies in Religions' - ie. The Holy Grail, The Bloodline of Christ, The Black Madonna, location of the Ark of the Covenant etc. - but it's rarely if ever used for anything more than a pulpit for boring diatribes on scripture and biblical quotes.

It's a crying shame really, but that's the simple truth of it.

I think as long as this forum is used in this kind of abusive manner, then people who resent this form of insipid propaganda are going to take shots - and who can really blame them??

J.

reply to post by Osiris1953

Together We Can Put an End to Religious/Ideological Bigotry at ATS!

I wish I could agree with you, brother, but from what I've seen, the people here on ATS are just as bad as anyone else, anywhere else I've ever been.

It's a shame that very few seem to 'rise above'.

reply to post by bigbert81


I realized while writing my original post that my efforts might be in vain. However, I figured that it was worth a shot even if only a few people were able to reconcile their differences.

[edit on 14-5-2008 by Osiris1953]

Originally posted by jimbo999
reply to post by Osiris1953

 

It's supposed to be for 'conspiracies in Religions' - ie. The Holy Grail, The Bloodline of Christ, The Black Madonna, location of the Ark of the Covenant etc. -

I agree with this statement those types of things should be discussed.... and it would be nice to see a shift back to such matters.

reply to post by Osiris1953


Okay thank your for the further clarification As long as it is understood both are equally contributing to this issue, everyone can make an effort to correcting it. I agree this is an issue on ATS.

Originally posted by jimbo999
but it's rarely if ever used for anything more than a pulpit for boring diatribes on scripture and biblical quotes

That's the bulk of what I observe from my experience on ATS, and I have been reading ATS for 4-5 years.

In addition to that, the bulk of those scriptures and biblical quotes aren't to further the thread topic but to condemn and judge imho.

reply to post by Osiris1953


Osiris1953, I think you are the only Atheist (you are an atheist right?) that I have ever been able to agree with. I don't like fighting with people, I try to clarify things about misconceptions about what I believe, but people don't listen.
There are sooo many (really too many) threads about how evil God and Christians are, al I ever see on the forum section is constant hatred from the other side, people name calling Chrisitans constantly and creating threads to try and bait Chrisitans, it's really just rediculous and I don't know why any mods have'nt stepped in, I think they try there best to avoid this section, personally I don't blame them.
All in all though, I'm getting tired of the same crap being spewed up and then the Christians debunking that crap (like Zieghtgiest, if anyone else uses that crap as "proof" for anything I'm going to scream!).
A star for you though my friend, maybe they will let you be a mod, you seem to be a fair minded person.
Let's end the fighting.

-Jimmy

Originally posted by Osiris1953
reply to post by bigbert81

 

I realized while writing my original post that my efforts might be in vain. However, I figured that it was worth a shot even if only a few people were able to reconcile their differences.

[edit on 14-5-2008 by Osiris1953]

I commend your efforts then.

Bigotry and ideological bigotry certainly do run rampant here, and I hope this thread gets read by many.

Starred and flagged.

[edit on 5/14/2008 by bigbert81]

reply to post by jimmyjackblack



For the time being I'm keeping my religious views out of this. I want those of different beliefs to start to have some open, honest conversation. As far as Zeitgeist goes, the section on religion is almost utter BS. If it were true, it would be world changing, however, it isn't. Thank you for the compliments, but again I'm trying to keep this thread from focusing on me. I'm trying to do something for the good of our online community. If I need to clarify what I'm trying to say, or if posts are directed towards me I will respond. I'm also checking in between chasing my daughter around the house so I won't be very prompt in responding until later on.

If I were given the opportunity to be a mod I would try my damndest to help wherever I would be needed. However, I doubt the opportunity will arise... and I'm not quite sure I'm the man for the job, but your comments are appreciated just the same.

reply to post by bigbert81


Thank you bigbert.... and since we've never had real direct contact I'd like to say that I do enjoy most of your posts and it's nice meeting you.

Originally posted by jimbo999
reply to post by Osiris1953

 

This particular forum has long ago become little more than a soapbox for religious fundementalists, bible-thumpers, and sermonisers, I'm afraid. It's supposed to be for 'conspiracies in Religions' - ie. The Holy Grail, The Bloodline of Christ, The Black Madonna, location of the Ark of the Covenant etc. - but it's rarely if ever used for anything more than a pulpit for boring diatribes on scripture and biblical quotes.

It's a crying shame really, but that's the simple truth of it.

I think as long as this forum is used in this kind of abusive manner, then people who resent this form of insipid propaganda are going to take shots - and who can really blame them??

J.

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
reply to post by Osiris1953

 

Osiris1953, I think you are the only Atheist (you are an atheist right?) that I have ever been able to agree with. I don't like fighting with people, I try to clarify things about misconceptions about what I believe, but people don't listen.
There are sooo many (really too many) threads about how evil God and Christians are, al I ever see on the forum section is constant hatred from the other side, people name calling Chrisitans constantly and creating threads to try and bait Chrisitans, it's really just rediculous and I don't know why any mods have'nt stepped in, I think they try there best to avoid this section, personally I don't blame them.
All in all though, I'm getting tired of the same crap being spewed up and then the Christians debunking that crap (like Zieghtgiest, if anyone else uses that crap as "proof" for anything I'm going to scream!).
A star for you though my friend, maybe they will let you be a mod, you seem to be a fair minded person.

Let's end the fighting.

-Jimmy

These two quotes sum up what Conspiracy in Religion has become. Too many threads are being started as either a way to pad ATS points of just to bait the other side. Let’s get back to the conspiracy aspect. The rest of this, if there is no obvious conspiracy, should be delegated to BTS.

Originally posted by Osiris1953
We also meet people who are ignorant, bigoted, and close minded.

Those are terms frequently used by people here when someone holds a different viewpoint then their own. Automatically they are idiots or bigots. Sometimes it's true ... but many times it's not.

Originally posted by jimbo999
This particular forum has long ago become little more than a soapbox for religious fundementalists, bible-thumpers, and sermonisers,

Amen! (sorry, couldn't resist that one!).

Edited to add - lots of folks don't want to be educated. They want to remain in their bigotry. There isn't anything that can be done about those people.



[edit on 5/14/2008 by FlyersFan]

And I would like to add that I am God-believing and I have read the Bible (Torah and NT)... so I am not biased or partial to the Atheist perspective when I say that the Bible Thumpers in my eyes are equally (if not more) contributors to this issue.

Just my imho, and observations,

Is there a conspiracy?? I am certain of it. Each side wants to convert the other!!