The Politics of Economic Depression

In recent days, we've seen a major bank fail. Now, it's looking like America's two largest mortage companies are about to get a big shot of tax payer dollars. I've heard it said that there are 900banks in the U.S. Some analysts are suggesting that we might lose 300. Even if we only lost 150, the pain will still be more than enough to signal a deep deep deep recesson. Can a Dpression be very far behind?

What do you think the impact will be on the Canadian economy. Will there be a lag, or will it's natural resources be of no real benifit in battling the fall ?

At this stage I would say that a depression is probable because unless inflation(SP?) is reigned in money will become worthless . Of course if money becomes worthless so does tax payer funded bail outs . Rising food and oil have to be curtailed . It is crucial that our elected leaders don't act rash while exploiting popularism. The last thing we need to do is to remove the incentive to produce via price controls . There is no use solving one problem and causing four others .

Refinement rather then wholesale changes is what is required it would be foolish to drift away from the free market economy all together. For once Speculators can no longer drive up the price of food example US farmers could better prepared to meet global demands for food if there not subsides .Along those lines globally there should be enough producers of food for a competitive market price wise to exist .

Another thing if anybody is expecting our current economic woes to end globalization are going to be disappointed. The world has shrunk to much for that to happen and any new body's that emerge will likely be a global forum .
For me a good guide of how things are going is the fact that more people are growing vegetable gardens in there backyards and other throw backs to the past are reappearing .

Old School methods are partially responsible for our decline. We're witnessing the collapse of an outdated economic model, that will eventually be preplaced by something else. The discussionsh ere on ATS and other board are already knee-deep in the question of what comes next.

A snipit from Richard C. Clark's latest column:

www.globalresearch.ca...


What is taking place is not just the collapse of the U.S. , but more than likely the final crash of Western civilization, since we are the last of the world empires to go down the drain. World War I saw the end of the German, Austro-Hungarian, Russian, and Ottoman empires. World War II saw the disappearance of the French, British, Japanese, and Italian empires, along with Nazi Germany. The Soviet empire collapsed in 1991. The American is next. The danger is that we may lash out and start a nuclear World War III out of frustration and to appease the elitists of the world who see war and famine as their pathway to world control. Such a war would also mean a military takeover domestically to manage the pathetically weak nation that we are becoming.

reply to post by Justin Oldham


Justin, I have to say I agree with a lot of what you have to say here, but personally I think it's also a mixture more so of both sides of the political fence working in coordination, or rather collusion through the Republicans and Democrats working in tandem to fool the mass populace of America into thinking they are working on seperate side of the table, meanwhile they are conspiring against the citizens to crash the economy on purpose, in order to usher in the Amero as well as form the North American Union, similar to how the European Union was formed and the Euro was brought in to solidify all nationalities under one monetary system.

One large step towards the World Government, because the exchange rates are not a factor so much in how money is moved around, as well as equalizing the money it streamlines the system.

Political Collusion of a President and Congress in Collapsing America, The Fall of The New Rome

In this thread here, I outline a lot of what the World Government is up to within their halls of government, in ushering in the Amero as well as the drive toward unionizing the North American continent, and the role Verichip/Digital Angel will take on towards the new monetary system.

Hope you didn't mind that I dropped in and linked that here, Justin, I'm not trying to hi-jack your thread, as I have much respect for what you're doing. I just thought that this might add to and enhance your theories already outline from someone else's perspective.

The difference here of course between "conspiracy" and "collusion" is conspiracy is always linked to UFO's and the X-Files, whereas collusion is something that can become a criminal charge against multiple people. I wonder if all of Congress, or even the majority of it can be brought up on charges of collusion, and if this would constitue a coupe and or regime change in totality, as well as impeaching Bush. That would rock the entire world, would it not.

I also linked everyone to come over to Conspiracy Master Justin Oldham's Forum to check out what you have to say.


[edit on 16-7-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

I'm justo ne voice. I'm glad youstopped in to share your thoughts. I hope you do it again. This is an open-ened discussion that can go on forever. We can only benefit from hearing many different opinions.

I thought that it was worth noting that the price at the pump as dropped to $1.95 per Litre . Naturally this has been over shadowed by Wall Street recent woes . When it comes to rising oil prices some breathing space is on offer which allows the discussions to remain on recent bailouts . At present the banking sector is much more secure in New Zealand during the current climate but that is working on the assumption that the current woes are a hard knock rather then a full blown depression in the making .

All of us here in the United States are hoping that this "rough patch" is not the precursor to a new depression. I, for one, would very much like to be wrongabout this. AS I write this, our President is busy pledging more bail outs, which will increase the deficit AND saddle the tax payer with an obligation to pay off more corporate welfare.

So, in november, when you go into the voting booth, which hand do you trust? One of them may not satisfy you. One of them may cause you pain in the wallet. Should you carry a video camera?

It's just that being in the middle of the street, crying, and mumbling about McCain, Obama, Palin, Biden,....... is there a way that you might for go this continued punishment of yourself?

Certainly we hope that after this 4yrs at least, someone puts the break on that corrupt political machine. Not doing it, and wrong, has led to trillions of dollars of debt which has to be directly shown in a continuing collapse of the market.

I've seen it for my 50yrs and when do we get to do and right, so that we make the profit that we should. If we had to get broke we should have been at a higher growth percentile. The inability to perform business correctly, to many "boom" fraud company's, and the inside edge,.... wrong makes you lose your edge and makes a small growth percentage.

Plus unfortunately, some threw away their education and tried drugs which as you can see, what economic expert would that be? Ingenuity, was the piston of the market, I'm afraid that cylinder has reached it's peak performance.

Gadgetry, cellphones and Ipods, these cheap boom products cannot hold the market stable. The investment in housing, a very bad move, which distabilized the market. Market fluctuation is good but fluctuation in different growth periods. Not that it went up and down!

Now, sad market, repair market? I can only scream,
YOU CAN GO IN THE BOOTH AND DO WHAT EVER YOU WANT WITH YOUR HANDS, JUST DON'T PULL THE LEVERS NO MORE!!!

[edit on 19-9-2008 by rightwingnut]

You make some interesting points. A lot of things have been mis-managed. I'm not one of those who will say home on election day. I may have to choose between what I see as the lesser of evils, but I will choose. I haven't missed a national election since I was 18, and I don't plan on skipping out now.

As you point out, the economy is broken. We no longer build anything that matters. The guts have been pulled out of our economic engine and sent overseas. Now that i've said all this, I'd like to point out one thing.

American politicians don't actualy "fix" anything until it breaks. The last short-term fix to the financial industry happened in the late 1980's. Those who don't know can do their own homework. You'll see that the Fed's response that Savings and Loan crisis was half-hearted and limp. Now, today, we're paying for that short sighted policy. We can only hope that the Fed's response is an actual fix, instead of a temporary triage.

reply to post by Justin Oldham


The saying that goes something along the lines of " prepare for the worst and hope for the best " springs to mind . If you prepare for the worst and the best happens no harm has been done . If the worst happens and your not prepared then you are screwed .

He says the US Federal Reserve should get back to its core business of managing the money supply and protecting the strength of the US dollar.

But his Democratic rival Barack Obama says he will support the plan, as long as it shields American workers as well as banks and big companies.

Source

When will the bail outs end ?
Every wall is breached eventually so the bail outs can only keep plugging the holes for so long . Even if bailouts were a long term answer to the current economic woes the cause of the problems would not be addressed .

I think that the bailouts must be insulting to the small business owners and such like who have gone under due to the troubled times . In the US those who have gone under may struggle to file for bankruptcy thanks to Bush .

[edit on 19-9-2008 by xpert11]

The small business community is outraged at the scope and scale of these bail outs. Hundreds of top executives will be getting out with golden parachutes worth almost as much money as the Fed is about to throw away. Even so, a lot of people are still unaware of this 'plot' and its full ramificatiosn . THAT is why I started this thread. If you want a real conspriacy, this would be it.

OK to move the discussion along I have a question for everybody .

Dose anybody think that the bailouts will actually prevent the global economy from a complete melt down ?

At this stage as I have already mentioned I hold the view that bailouts are a short term fix at best which makes the cost even more outrages .

Cheers xpert11.

Originally posted by xpert11
OK to move the discussion along I have a question for everybody .

Dose anybody think that the bailouts will actually prevent the global economy from a complete melt down ?

At this stage as I have already mentioned I hold the view that bailouts are a short term fix at best which makes the cost even more outrages .

Cheers xpert11.

I don't care if the bailout will succeed in preventing a complete melt-down, which I seriously doubt it will after spending several hours at www.tickerforum.org... reading what some people say who understand this event much more than I ever will.

What concerns me the most is the power play that is coming into effect as a result of this crisis. I'm truly worried for my country as I look at what the bailout consists of..........
www.tickerforum.org...

The fact that I hear McCain and Obama playing lip service to this kind of action reinforces my perspective that I won't be voting for any candidate this election.

Justin and others participating in this discussion, I think we're witnessing an amazing event here that I personally do not understand economically. The only thing I understand is that this bailout plan is being used as an opportunity for the FED to have some crazy power that borders on fascism. I'm striving to be able understand exactly what is going on and the best community I've found expressing an economic perspective is that of the people at the link I've posted above and the sudden attention Ron Paul has been receiving from the media.

Also, from my limited understanding what the "bailout" is proposing is that the debt of the banks (who started this mess) over to us taxpayers is one way or another. This will further enhance the issues of inflation and yes, as xpert stated, seems to only be a temporary fix that prolongs the issue.

[edit on 21-9-2008 by Bugman82]

reply to post by Bugman82


Well, Bugman82, I think you've hit the nail on the head. My point, whne I started this thread, was that our leaders are using this collapse for their own gain. they are NOT actualy trying to fix anything. As Xpert11 says, this is a short term fix. Bush43 is doing just enough to make sure the worst of the recession doesn't happen on his watch.

As Bugman82 points out, we are seeing a large power grab. Earlier today, Treasury Secretary Paulsen said he wanted full discretion over the 700 billion dollars that he's asking for. Full discretion? Yikes.



[edit on 21-9-2008 by Justin Oldham]

Here is a link discussing the inherent problem and the possible solution. I like this idea of nothing being hidden and nothing out of sight.

www.fedupusa.org...

Question:

Are we likely to see any real reforms as a result of this bailout?

Or, are we seeing the GOP use the national check book to buy more time?

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
Question:

Are we likely to see any real reforms as a result of this bailout?

No as you said politicians don't fix anything until it is broken . I am still deciding if this is just human nature in general or just politicians .
So in other words there is no chance of reforms until the melt down is complete . Besides even if I am wrong and the bail outs work nobody ever learns from a near miss .

Or, are we seeing the GOP use the national check book to buy more time?

You hit the nail on the head . The scary thing is just like back in 2003 and the invasion of Iraq there is no over sight that could prevent this madness . When the 6 o'clock news was first covering the bail outs it was said that the total sum of money to be spend is nine times the size of the New Zealand economy.

If you bail out you only change the name on the debt. The people who are owed should demand the money comes from the long suffering of private debts. We as taxpayers are now saddle with private debts of others. Is this the american way "some must die so others can live"?.... better than those who now pay? Wall street needs to dump venture capitalism over the side. Start calling the bank and making sure these investors have money. The bank should say no to mortgages on private homes and stick to the less risky business. We've got to get back to bank and trust, bank and bust just don't work.

The debt is going to be manifested some place why can't the original debtor take the loss and that's that?

[edit on 23-9-2008 by rightwingnut]