The Politics of Economic Depression, page 1
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 11 times
Topic started on 7-4-2008 @ 03:38 AM by Justin Oldham
You don’t have to be a conspiracy theorist to know that the U.S. economy is entering a recession that may result in a larger Depression, of the type we experienced in the 1930’s. In addition to the economic considerations that we must now contend with, we face a second problem that’s just as harmful.

As the economy fails, our elected leaders will be tempted to use the resulting national fear and and individual misery to their advantage. Never mind the fact that most of these politicians and their cronies had a hand in the fiscal mismanagement that is going to hurt us. They’ll insist that they have the answer to our woes, which will come in the form of more government.

Critics of the recent Republican administration will counter that GOP policies only made things wrose. For the most part, they'll be right. Since 1994, the Republican party has been anything but fiscally wise in its policies. In many respects, George W. Bush has out liberal'd the liberals in matters of money management and the growth of goverment. Even so, the larger trend has meant that both parties are guilty of bringing us to this horrible moment in our history.

The overall trend in
centralized power at the Federal level hasn't been hard to identify. It's been observed by many of ATS, and elsewhere, for a very long time. I'm still of the opinion that you won't find a more real conspiracy than this. The terrible fact of the matter is that our political elites know what they've done to us, and they have every intention of exploiting the opportunity they've created.


Using the threat of financial failure as leverage, we can expect to see certain members of the conspiracy take a more active role in public life. Some will be people you've heard of. Many will not. The institutional forces that drive this hidden agenda will cause some members of civil service to be recruited. Others will simply be bullied into not bucking the trend.


It's been two years since I made my case in The Shape Of Things To come, and we're now on the verge of seeing it all play out. The hidden politics of economic decline are no longer being practiced. Power brokers at all levels are now acting out in the open. Tehre's really only one question left to ask. How does it all play out?

That's what I'd like to discuss with you in the weeks and months ahead. Most will be preoccupied with the Presidential elections. Others will be too busy with their daily lives to notice that this trend is cresting. The issues we face go beyond radicalization and revolt, with the potential for coup de'tat. In the years to come, as conditions deteriorate, we'll wrestle with social issues and questions of personal philosophy that could affect our national future.

My goal is dialogue. Don't just read what I write. Share your thoughts, and let's see what happens.


reply posted on 9-4-2008 @ 02:55 PM by Justin Oldham
The potential for U.S. economic collapse now seems more real to me than at any other time in my life. As it stands, we are heading in to a recession that may be deeper and longer than anyone suspects.

What is a recession? If you ask an economist, you won't get a straight answer.
See this example. In school, they taught us that a recession was caused by a slow down in consumer spending...which...caused a slow down in business activity.

Why does consumer spending slow down? One word. Inflation. As this article points out, there are two things that make up "inflation."

Part One:
"An increase in the amount of currency in circulation, resulting in a relatively sharp and sudden fall in its value and rise in prices: it may be caused by an increase in the volume of paper money issued or of gold mined, or a relative increase in expenditures as when the supply of goods fails to meet the demand."


The recent hosuing bubble in the U.S. was made possible when too much credit was made available. The resulting spike in home prices had the net effect of putting too much currency in to the economy, which drive up the prices of many things.

Part Two:
2) "A persistent increase in the level of consumer prices or a persistent decline in the purchasing power of money, caused by an increase in available currency and credit beyond the proportion of available goods and services."


The recession we now face will be 'propelled' by this over abundance of credit and dollars. It won't go away unil the bad debts and excess credit have dried up and the dollar has increased in value enough to allow the average person to afford a stable and 'safe' lifestyle.

There are only two ways for the bad debts to go away. the major banks that own those debts could eat the losses, or; they can be bailed out by the U.S. taxpayer. The recent Bear-Stearns bail out indicates that the Federal Reserve intends to use taxpayer money to prevent these businesses from failing under the load of their bad debts.

Banks and speculators aren't the only people and institutions that will be hurt by the recession and depression that follows. Many ATS members have written quite a bit on the subject of predatory lending. I don't want to duplicate their work. I will say that the home loan failures and personal credit bankruptcies that result will play their part in this economic disaster.

Over the next two years, American consumers will have less spending power, which will mean they'll be buying a lot less. Entertainment budgets will go away so that the average family can keep paying their utilities and other bills that make it possible for them to keep their jobs...if...they keep their jobs.

As the economy fails, the Federal treasury will take in fewer tax dollars. that means they won't have as much money on hand for company bail outs. We should assume the Fed will resort to credit, as many consumers did. In the long run, Uncle Sam will be forced in to bankruptcy. When that happens, you'll begin to see the worst of a Depression that could last for ten years.

Under these worst-case conditions, we should expect the Federal government to do something drastic. The Federal Treasury may choose to default on its debts and issue a new currency. This could serve the interests of many corporations, which have since moved their headquarters to Dubai and other non-U.S. locales.
As many ATS members have pointed out, this would easily be the moment when the "Amero" is put in to service.

There is a school of thought among certain conspiracy theorists who believe that this crash is deliberate. They contend that this planned depression is going to pave the way for the creation of a North American Union. In purest political terms, this is possible when one considers that a shattered economy would be much easier to manipulate than one which is healthy and robust.


reply posted on 14-4-2008 @ 10:58 PM by Justin Oldham
Welcome all to this discussion. I reget that much of what I predicted has come to pass. For the last two years, I've limited my discussion to polcy and bureaucracy. As our economic decline became more obvious, I thought it was necessary to talk about the hidden politics of economic decline.

Our leaders have known this downturn was coming for quite some time. There are two schools of thought on the matter.

a) That they intended this failure to happen so that hey could exploit our fears and centralize power.

or...

b) That this whole thing is the end result of stupid people acting stupidly.

In my opinion, there's too much collusion between governemnt and big business for this economic slide to be an accident.



reply posted on 16-4-2008 @ 05:02 PM by Justin Oldham
Hello jefwane, it's good to meet you.

Originally posted by jefwane
Great to see you active again Justin. If you can tell from my recent posts i've been almost obsessed with markets and the credit crisis since it started. I believe that we are repeating alot of the mistakes ( or actions if you are of the deliberate collapse thesis) that lead to the great recession. History does not repeat but it often rhymes.


It has been said that those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it. Like yourself, I've been interested in the economic side of this thing for quite some time. You've seen my work in the other threads, so I won't bother quoting it here.

It's hard to know if this collapse is deliberate. I say that its deliberate in that no one in the Bush administration has made an honest effort to deal with this problem. They could've let the housing bubble burst in '02 OR '04, depending on how you run your numbers.

They could've reformed the banking laws at any time prior to '06. They couldn've done a lot of things, but they didn't. That says to me that they saw this coming, and decided to exploit it.

Originally posted by jefwane
I'm starting to see rumblings in the bond market that really scare me. The financial institutions almost all have encumbered balance sheets and are only solvent currently due to access to the Fed's money. They must instigate something that lets them restore their balance sheets. A bond market collapse would allow them to restore balance sheets by swooping in and buying up treasuries.


In my published work, I determined that bonds would be the only refuge ONCE the credit market had failed. T-bills won't be worth having, and the voluntary acquisition of Savings Bonds will dry up. As I write, that's 2-4 years out. Expect Bernanke to be replaced. Expect the NEXT Fed Chair to tell the bankers to eat the bad debt until its mostly gone. The bond market collapse will essentially happen with Federal approval. Watch the litigations, and you'll see what I mean.

Originally posted by jefwane
I'm currently studying what happened to commodities during the Deppression and trying to get a handel of what is going to happen to them.


The short answer is that they'll become too expensive prior to the financial collapse. Blame the speculators, who will be leveraged to the hilt. Prices will fall like a hot rock, but nobody will have credit to finance improved production or new product development. Expect the Fed to reach for FDR's playbook. You know how well that turned out.

Originally posted by jefwane
I've seen a couple of people say that in this long cycle, the US sits where Britain was during the first depression, and china is sitting where the US was.


That's a fair assessment for just one reason. The Brits had money, but they had no labor and no heavy manufacturing. Today, the Chinese have both, as we once did.

Originally posted by jefwane
What do you see happening near 1-3 months, intermediate 6-18months and long term 18 + months economic wise.


1-24 months out, recession. 12-24 mounts, out, unemployment increases by 3%. 1-36 months out, comodities boom, credit dries up, and the housing crisis bottoms out. 36+ months out, the depression hits. 2014 becomes the year of greatest misery before we have any shot at climbing out of the hole we dug with our own hands.


reply posted on 16-4-2008 @ 05:46 PM by jefwane
I've also noticed that Volker has crawled out of his crypt lately. It appears he is one of the main economic advisers to Obama. A blunt former Fed chairman takes on Bernanke. Take heed of what he says I'm looking for a source right now but all is not as it seems with Volker, apparently he's pushing for a global currency on the other hand while criticizing actions of Central banks.


reply posted on 27-4-2008 @ 09:23 PM by jefwane
A little news on the bond collapse front Justin. It looks like Japan, who as I'm sure you know is the largest foreign holder of US debt, is reconsidering the value of treasuries due to dollar decline.

From Bloomberg

Japan owns more Treasuries than any other nation. After raising their holdings by $9.2 billion to $620.6 billion between March and July 2007, Japanese investors trimmed that stake by $34 billion through February, the Treasury said April 15.


Also what is your take on the negative non-borrowed reserve number referenced in this ATS thread.

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