Did Jesus really die?

Originally posted by toasted
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

 

20Times! that's quite impressive. Anyways his visit was to fulfill the Law, the scriptures and to expose the frauds and to inform us, that the only way to make it to the next world will be through a belief in Him and repentance of our sins.

Or simply judge. To fulfill a law means to judge by it. Or like Jesus said:

Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. (I.e. "I have come to judge by the Law and bring about the promise of the Prophets") 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments (that would be the laws of Moses) and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

In other words, in order to enter heaven you must practice and teach the Law of Moses to the fullest. You must be even more lawful than the Pharicees and the scribes. The Pharicees feared this, so the Pharicee Saul/Paul "converted" to Christendom and tried to stop the Christians from entering the Kingdom of Heaven, by abolishing the Law of Moses and teach the Christians to believe Jesus abolished the Law. In that way Christians would exclude themselves from the synagogues and the Temple and the Jews would sit safely in their positions of power. Paul did this right infront of the eyes of the Christians in order to prove their rightiousness was far from the Pharicees and was therefore also excluded from the Kingdom of Heaven.

"Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called LEAST in the kingdom of heaven".

Paulus or Paul means literally LITTLE or SMALL. So why did he change his name from Saul which means desired. Another interesting fact about Paul is that in Hebrew Saul is written almost exactly like the name of "the Kingdom of Death" or Hebr. She'ol, Gr. Hades.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


" unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the..." And just how righteous are a bunch of puffed up Satanists acting "as if" they are something they are not? lol

Satan has been prince of this world since the fall of man. Nimrod was the greatest of the "gods' to be worshipped by the uninformed masses. When Shem killed Nimrod and cut him into pieces, his wife and the corrupt priests went underground with their sick practices and eventually passed themselves off once again to the uninformed masses as legit priests , but not who they really worshipped.

It was the saducees and pharisees that Jesus called vipers! Not exactly a warm and fuzzy compliment!







[edit on 4-4-2008 by toasted]

Originally posted by toasted
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

 

It was the saducees and pharisees that Jesus called vipers! Not exactly a warm and fuzzy compliment!

And who taught Man rightiousness in the first place? The serpent. Serpent is wisdom. Wisdom is rightiousness. The pharicees kept the Law, that's the whole point here. Christians don't, since a Pharicee told them not to. Hmmm...

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

Originally posted by toasted
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

 

It was the saducees and pharisees that Jesus called vipers! Not exactly a warm and fuzzy compliment!

And who taught Man rightiousness in the first place? The serpent. Serpent is wisdom. Wisdom is rightiousness. The pharicees kept the Law, that's the whole point here. Christians don't, since a Pharicee told them not to. Hmmm...

I think you should clarify what you are referring to as the law. This may have differant meanings for differant individuals. Is the law of Moses simply the ten commandments or are you referring to the law of Moses in respect to the Torah?

I have been reading your posts and I dont quite understand where you are coming from. Perhaps if you posted your general overall beliefs or which religion you belong this would clarify what you are trying to state.

If I understand correctly you have said that Jesus did not Die on the Cross because you cannot kill God, Further I understand that you are stating that Since Christians do not follow the Law of Moses they will not reap the benefits of heaven and that Christians do not follow the law because of a conspiracy of the Pharisees. Are you stating that wisdom and righteousness are given to us from the serpent? It is my impression that the serpent grants knowledge. How are wisdom and righteousness joined? is wisdom not the combination of knowledge, experience, and the intuition to decipher that knowledge and experience to the greater glory of God? Are you stating that righteousness along with an unfaltering following of the laws of Moses will allow you entry into heaven? I am a little confused by the points you are trying to make or is that perhaps the purpose of your posts.

Originally posted by photobug
I think you should clarify what you are referring to as the law. This may have differant meanings for differant individuals. Is the law of Moses simply the ten commandments or are you referring to the law of Moses in respect to the Torah?

The Law is the Law of Moses. All 613 commandments: www.jewfaq.org...

I have been reading your posts and I dont quite understand where you are coming from. Perhaps if you posted your general overall beliefs or which religion you belong this would clarify what you are trying to state.

I am a Christian outside church who found God in a book about ancient geometry some ten years ago. I don't go to church, I wasn't taught to be a Christian and would typically mock Christians in my early age for being gullible and stupid. However the bible now gives me more challenge than the physics of Einstein. When you dive into the Torah especially Genesis, everything we know from science is layed out as riddles. And I love riddles...

If I understand correctly you have said that Jesus did not Die on the Cross because you cannot kill God,

Partly right. The indications of him dying in the Gospel is merely an indication of punctured longue, which when treated is not fatal.

Further I understand that you are stating that Since Christians do not follow the Law of Moses they will not reap the benefits of heaven and that Christians do not follow the law because of a conspiracy of the Pharisees. Are you stating that wisdom and righteousness are given to us from the serpent?

Yes.

It is my impression that the serpent grants knowledge. How are wisdom and righteousness joined? is wisdom not the combination of knowledge, experience, and the intuition to decipher that knowledge and experience to the greater glory of God? Are you stating that righteousness along with an unfaltering following of the laws of Moses will allow you entry into heaven? I am a little confused by the points you are trying to make or is that perhaps the purpose of your posts.

It is said that Satan has never broken any commandment God has given him. His sin is Rebellion. A wise man is a rightious man. Always. That's what wisdom is all about. The Zealots will probably call me a satanist after this...

Did Jesus die? No....he's now 2008 years old. He goes around lopping off heads of other "immortals" to gain their strength, kind of like Highlander.

diddnt he get put into a cave or something ? then the next day the cave was unblocked and he wasnt their... and a deciple said they saw him or something ? maybe the aliens took him

The story goes that he was crucified on the preparation day before Passover, Erev Pesach. That would mean the day before Passover starts, on Wednesday before Maundy Thursday (in other words, not Good Friday as the church wants us to believe). He rested in his tomb for three days and nights and on Sunday morning the grave was empty. Later Jesus showed himself for Mary Magdalen and his disciples, alive and kickin'. The story goes that he went up to Heaven right in front of his disciples' eyes.

[edit on 6/4/2008 by Neo Christian Mystic]

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


What is your position on the serpant granting us wisdom and rightousness? It almost sounds as if you are glorifying the serpant.

I appreciate the link on the 613 laws I shall spend some time researching those.

You mentioned your thirst for debate regarding the book of revalations in your profile. How do you see that coming down and what is your interpretation of such.

The serpent is wisdom. Jesus likened himself to a serpent:

John 3:14 "Just as Moses lifted up the snake (the copper serpent) in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up"


Numbers 21:9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, he lived.

And we all know the story of when Moses and Aron turned their staffs into serpents in Egypt. The serpent is the symbol of healing, wisdom and law.

Exodus 4:1 Moses answered, "What if they do not believe me or listen to me and say, 'The Lord did not appear to you'?" 2 Then the Lord said to him, "What is that in your hand?" "A staff," he replied. 3 The Lord said, "Throw it on the ground." Moses threw it on the ground and it became a snake, and he ran from it. 4 Then the Lord said to him, "Reach out your hand and take it by the tail." So Moses reached out and took hold of the snake and it turned back into a staff in his hand. 5 "This," said the Lord, "is so that they may believe that the Lord, the God of their fathers--the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob--has appeared to you."

Exodus 7:10 So Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and did just as the Lord commanded. Aaron threw his staff down in front of Pharaoh and his officials, and it became a snake.

Originally posted by photobug
You mentioned your thirst for debate regarding the book of revalations in your profile. How do you see that coming down and what is your interpretation of such.

I believe the sixth trumpet is WW3 and the former five trumpets are fulfilled this century, the First Gulf War being the fifth. I believe the woman cloathed in the sun with twelve stars around her head will give birth on the 6th of June 2012 when Venus is in transit with the sun in the year of the Water Dragon. The beast's heads are the empires of Egypt, Assur, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome (Cæcar means slain or deadly wounded) and the Pope, the ten horns being the ten Imperial Circles of the Holy Roman Empire. The false prophet would be an Israeli Messiah. I have way more. Look out for some more elaborate posts in the near future. I am working on something...

Edit: Hope you don't mind me adding you as a friend...

[edit on 6/4/2008 by Neo Christian Mystic]

Edit: Please see the following link for a short elaboration on the trumpets and some more:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 6/4/2008 by Neo Christian Mystic]

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


" The serpent. Serpent is wisdom. Wisdom is righteousness. The pharicees kept the Law, that's the whole point here. Christians don't, since a Pharicee told them not to. "

Wise? I so disagree! Would you call a man wise who fleeced you out of your money with his clever words, or rather a thief? There is no inherent wisdom in just being wise without having any integrity! The serpent is a liar, a crafty wordsmith and deceiver!!

And the pharicees just ACTED, like they kept the law. They were mostly full of themselves.
And the laws they created, The Talmud is mostly mans law, not Gods law, hence their being frauds!
Which today spells out mans problem, all we have to do to end the problems on this planet, is to follow Gods laws and poof, end of problems! But the powers of this world follow a different god, the architect of the universe, not the Creator, and the architect only has our destruction in mind!

One can turn on almost any television channel to see our destruction is nigh!

And alot of Christians don't keep the law because they follow wolves in sheeps clothing, [ clubmembers and also new agers ] and are ignorant and haven't read The Word nor comprehended its' contents.

If you want to say there is only one serpent in this world, and that he is evil any way you put it, so be it. But the fact is that Satan is the OLD serpent. In other words, who is the NEW serpent who will take over? Is Dan Satan in your eyes? Jacob likened him with a serpent on his deathbed. Is Jesus Satan? He likened himself to the copper serpent Moses had made in the desert to heal people. Was Moses and Aron in companionship with Satan, since they could turn their symbols of power and wisdom into serpents? Don't be so biased. Without serpents there would be contageous rats all over the place.

Greetings,

Originally posted by DaddyBare
See The pagan Roman emperor Constantine ordered the Christian bishops to meet at Nicaea in 325 A.D and create what we all know of as the bible

No it didn't.

The Council of Nicea had NOTHING to do with chosing the books of the Bible. They did not even discuss the subject at all.

This is merely a very common urban legend, endlessly repeated by people who never bothered to check the facts.

You can read about what the CoN decided in the minutes of the meeting :
www.newadvent.org...

You can read about the formation of the Bible canon here:
www.ntcanon.org...

Repeating this false claim shows you haven't a clue about the facts.


Iasion

Greetings,

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
In 325 AD the Council of Nicaea lead by the Roman Emperor decided uppon a canon among the scriptures that were already circulating.

No, it did NOT.

The Council of Nicea had NOTHING to do with chosing the canon.

Doesn't anybody here ever check ANYTHING?

Go READ what the CoN decided:
www.newadvent.org...

Note well - not a word about the books of the bible.

Repeating the false urban legend shows you never researched the subject at all, but just repeated what someone told you.


Iasion

Greetings,

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
The "original" Greek manuscripts exist to this day.

No they don't.

We have no original MSS at all.

Merely later copies of copies of copies...


Iasion

Greetings,

Originally posted by DTOX X
There are substantial amounts of evidence that Jesus actually did exist as a human being.

There is NO contemporary evidence at all.
You failed to cite any, because there is none.

Jesus made NO mark on his world.
All we have is later beliefs ABOUT Jesus.

Originally posted by DTOX X
He was a scholar of the time, that is on record.

There is NO SUCH record.
You failed to cite any, because there is none.

Originally posted by DTOX X
Do some research and you will find the evidence for yourself. All it takes is legwork.

I have.
There is no contemporary evidence for Jesus at all.
You failed to cite any, because there is none.

You did no legwork at all.


Iasion


[edit on 7-4-2008 by Iasion]

Originally posted by Iasion
Greetings,

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
In 325 AD the Council of Nicaea lead by the Roman Emperor decided uppon a canon among the scriptures that were already circulating.

No, it did NOT.

The Council of Nicea had NOTHING to do with chosing the canon.

You're absolutely right. Sorry for confusing you all. I mixed up history here.

"In his Easter letter of 367, Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, gave a list of exactly the same books as what would become the New Testament canon, and he used the word "canonized" (kanonizomena) in regards to them." (Wikipedia)

Come on man. this thread a joke? the Romans made sure all their criminals died. they would crucify everyone and made sure they were dead. How did they do this? they would poke, slash, the victim and make sure he was dead. they did this to all of the people they put up in the crosses. To them Jesus was no different. He died, they took him down and wrapped the body up.

Later, Jesus went to heaven, ressurected and was sent to earth again. but this time he could not stay in human form. So he came back for a brief time.

Originally posted by Iasion
Greetings,

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
The "original" Greek manuscripts exist to this day.

No they don't.

We have no original MSS at all.

Merely later copies of copies of copies...


Iasion

As you may have noticed I used quotes around "original" citing that they were translations from earlier Aramaic writings. There are different versions of the Greek texts, but their differences are subliminal. Most scholars believe the Greek MSs we have today differ very little from the earlier texts.