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Did Jesus really die?

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posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 02:15 AM
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Indeed. As you say the Gospel leaves discrepancy over the circumstances around the crusifiction. And you are correct about the ninth hour being around three in the afternoon, if you are counting nine hours from sunrise, thinking sunrise would be at around six in the morning.

And if Jesus carried out the Nazareean tradition all his pre crusifiction life he would have long hair and beard making it relatively easy to disguise him, they would only need to cut his hair and beard, making him difficult to recognise. There are several things that suggests that Jesus had his hair and beard cut shortly after the crusifiction. In Hebrews he is refered to as turning in to the High Priest of God after the crusifiction, and the Law demands that such a priest shall have short hair and no beard. When I met Jesus in a dream the night before I was baptised, he had short, black hair and no beard, and his appearance would suggest a man in his late thirties.




posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 04:57 AM
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reply to post by saint4God
 


saint4God,

It's the truth, Jesus died just like a normal man at the age of 120 according to the Prophet Muhammad, as revealed to him by the Angel Gabriel.

"It is reported from Ibn Abbas that the Holy Prophet said in a sermon: O people! You will be gathered to your Lord (on the day of Judgment) ... and some people from my Umma will be taken and dragged towards hell. I shall say: ‘O Lord, but these are my people’. It will be replied: ‘You do not know what they did after you’. Then I shall say as did that righteous servant of God (Jesus) say: ‘I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die (tawaffaitani) Thou wast Watcher over them’ ..." (Bukhari, Kitab al-Tafsir, under Surah Ma’idah)

"Aisha (God be pleased with her) said that, in his illness in which he died, the Holy Prophet said: ‘Every year Gabriel used to repeat the Holy Quran with me once, but this year he has done it twice. He has informed me that there is no prophet but he lives half as long as the one who preceded him. And he has told me that Jesus lived a hundred and twenty years, and I see that I am about to leave this world at sixty’."

005.075 The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!

We are given the age of Jesus as 120, the supposed crucifixion of Jesus was at the age of 30-33, he was not the one who died, but in truth it was Judas, which they wrote off in the scripture as hanging himself due to ill conscience.
For all we know, Jesus has married and had kids as normal men do.

013.038 And verily We sent messengers (to mankind) before thee, and We appointed for them wives and offspring, and it was not (given) to any messenger that he should bring a portent save by Allah's leave. For everything there is a time prescribed.

"Muhammad is only a messenger, messengers before him have indeed passed away" (3:144);

"And We made no mortal before thee to live on forever" (21:34);

"Nor did they (the prophets) live on forever" (21:8).

016.043 And We sent not (as Our messengers) before thee other than men whom We inspired - Ask the followers of the Remembrance if ye know not!

016.063 By Allah, We verily sent messengers unto the nations before thee, but the devil made their deeds fairseeming unto them. So he is their patron this day, and theirs will be a painful doom.

018.056 We send not the messengers save as bearers of good news and warners. Those who disbelieve contend with falsehood in order to refute the Truth thereby. And they take Our revelations and that wherewith they are threatened as a jest.

021.025 And We sent no messenger before thee but We inspired him, (saying): There is no God save Me (Allah), so worship Me.

022.052 Never sent We a messenger or a prophet before thee but when He recited (the message) Satan proposed (opposition) in respect of that which he recited thereof. But Allah abolisheth that which Satan proposeth. Then Allah establisheth His revelations. Allah is Knower, Wise;

022.075 Allah chooseth from the angels messengers, and (also) from mankind. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Seer.

On the Day of Judgment, the messengers and those who received the message will be questioned, and Jesus and his disciples will be a witness against the Children of Israel for contaminating his Gospel.

005.111 And when I inspired the disciples of Jesus, (saying): Believe in Me and in My messenger, they said: We believe. Bear witness that we have surrendered (unto Thee) "we are muslims".

007.006 Then verily We shall question those unto whom (Our message) hath been sent, and verily We shall question the messengers.

005.012 Allah made a covenant of old with the children of Israel and We raised among them twelve chieftains, and Allah said: Lo! I am with you. If ye establish worship and pay the poor-due, and believe in My messengers and support them, and lend unto Allah a kindly loan, surely I shall remit your sins, and surely I shall bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow. Whoso among you disbelieveth after this will go astray from a plain road.

The Children of Israel who received and believed the Prophet Muhammad fulfilled their Covenant with God, that is to believe in His messengers. But the rest who keep on denying the Holy Quran are the Covenant Breakers.

We believe in the testimony of the Prophet Muhammad about the true circumstance surrounding the alleged death of Jesus on the cross, because it was a revelation from God, the ONLY Knower of the Unseen. And the Gospel which I quote from testifies also to the truthfulness of Jesus. The New Testament where you base your belief has been corrupted and contaminated by the workings of Satan that scarcely is the truth found. But now has the truth come to you, if you really believe in God, trust in His guidance and He will lead you to the path of truth.

007.157 Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.

008.024 O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and the messenger when He calleth you to that which quickeneth you, and know that Allah cometh in between the man and his own heart, and that He it is unto Whom ye will be gathered.

The Holy Quran is a well of Living Water, just as the True Gospel of Jesus was, let him who thirst drink from this well and they will thirst no more.

Deuteronomy 18:17-19

17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Peace!



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 05:37 PM
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edit


[edit on 11-7-2008 by Iasion]



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 05:39 PM
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edit


[edit on 11-7-2008 by Iasion]



posted on Jul, 16 2008 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by queenofangels_17
reply to post by saint4God
 


saint4God,

It's the truth, Jesus died just like a normal man at the age of 120 according to the Prophet Muhammad, as revealed to him by the Angel Gabriel.


I wouldn't use Gabriel as a valid source, he's reknown for telling allegories, not truth. He simply cant hand'le duality and division, for he is division, he is duality. My friend Gabrien said it clearly: jump oppf the earth core, turn yourself into a steam engine making it possible in origo of time; before whatever happened happened. What I explained here Gabrioelø wise, means we could'st make it to the moon without nuclear energy. ....and titan. Gabriel simply said Jesus was limited by man's limitatio0ns, and was not a preordeal giant. He had to de at 120. Like me perhaps ;P)



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 04:36 PM
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It's quite intrigueing that the centurion Longinus who is credited with killing Jesus by piercing his side, was killed for helping the Christians, or for being a Christian. Just a thought, while reminded that the sceptics to my view said Longinus would've been put to death if he healed Jesus with the spear in the side...



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 10:24 AM
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This is the truth as far as I am aware.


Hugh Schonfield, in his The Passover Plot, suggests that Jesus was drugged—sedated on the cross such that he appeared dead but could be revived later, after he had been taken down. This is by no means such a wild idea, and it has received a sympathetic hearing. For example, in a television program on the crucifixion broadcast by the BBC in 2004 called Did Jesus Die? Elaine Pagels referred to Schonfield's book, which, she noted, suggested that Jesus "had been sedated on the cross; that he was removed quite early and therefore could well have survived." And, she concluded, "that's certainly a possibility."


Also for the more open minded amongst you I have verified it myself by having accesed Jesus's memories in the Akashic records library during my last passing. It's certainly nice to know someone else has worked out this hidden truth.



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 10:36 AM
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I don't mean to start an argument but if you read the "Confession of Peter" he claimed someone else stood in for that Crucifixion... they had whisked away their messiah... only when this hiding place was discovered did they concoct the story of him being reborn....

To you naysayers be comforted in knowing this confession was taken on his death bed after spending years as a guest of the Roman Prison system who can really say if it was cohered or not?

BTW that is the lesser know Confession of Peter... and the vatican spent hundreds of years trying to keep that version from getting out...



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by pharaohmoan

Hugh Schonfield, in his The Passover Plot, suggests that Jesus was drugged—sedated on the cross such that he appeared dead but could be revived later, after he had been taken down. This is by no means such a wild idea, and it has received a sympathetic hearing. For example, in a television program on the crucifixion broadcast by the BBC in 2004 called Did Jesus Die? Elaine Pagels referred to Schonfield's book, which, she noted, suggested that Jesus "had been sedated on the cross; that he was removed quite early and therefore could well have survived." And, she concluded, "that's certainly a possibility."


Also for the more open minded amongst you I have verified it myself by having accesed Jesus's memories in the Akashic records library during my last passing. It's certainly nice to know someone else has worked out this hidden truth.


there is only one drug that is known to do that and thats blowfish poison and not many people know about it (even today)

the idea is sooo unplausible



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 05:43 PM
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There were many anaestetics available at the time. With well known effects. They didn't have drugstores back then, but they sure grew herbs of any kind. Below is a link showing 300 common medicinal herbs. Most known since the stoneage and beyond.

www.anniesremedy.com...

[edit on 24/5/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 06:53 PM
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Jesus was human (if he existed at all) and therefore, he died. Humans die. Just like Elvis is dead and Jim Morrison ,etc. We'd all like to think that these wonderful people couldn't possibly be dead, but as Jim Morrison said: "No one gets out of here alive."

BTW: Where is the conspiracy here?



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 09:25 PM
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The conspiracy proposed in The Passover Plot is that Jesus planned to fake his own death. He could then drop out of sight and not be pursued by the Romans who did not like Jewish messiahs. I have this very good copy of it but do not remember reading it or how I happen to have it. This is not my subject, but I have boxes full of used books.

But here is a quote from the front of the dust cover. "On the hill of Golgotha three bodies are suspended on crosses. Two, the theives, are dead. The third appears so. This is the drugged body of Jesus of Nazareth, the man who planned his own crucifixion, who contrived to be given a soporific potion to put him into a deathlike trance. Now Joseph of Arimathea, bearing clean linen and spices, approaches and recovers the still form of Jesus."

That was the teaser, and it is not a novel but a conspiracy theory. It looks almost interesting enough to read sometime.



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 02:29 AM
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Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
There were many anaestetics available at the time.


and anesthetic is different than a drug that makes you look dead.



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 02:55 AM
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Well there do exist certain Eastern techniques in which one can slow their heart and metabolism to take on the appearance of death. That coupled with how simular Jesus and Buddha's teachings were make me wonder if there was a connection. But that is not part of the question posed in the OP.



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 06:30 AM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
There were many anaestetics available at the time.


and anesthetic is different than a drug that makes you look dead.


Hehe, narcosis where the only thing moving is a highly sedated heart, sertainly not visible to the naked eye and difficult to spot.

FGS he was decleared dead by a soldier looking at him from a distance. A soldier who had just seen the light and shouted out that Jesus was the Son of God. I would say such would subject him to severe bias. "Hallelujah I have killed the Son of God, let's make sure his dead" Get Real! Why is it so important to you that he died? So that you can continue to believe the lies of the Pope and your aunt that you then somehow don't need to die? That he died for you? If he was killed, he was killed for your transgressions towards the Spirit who witnes not reality, but the hopes and beliefs of the people and gods of this world.

Edit: It goes with the story, that Longinus the Roman centurion in charge of the execution, and who converted uppon Jesus' "death", was later executed by his officials because Jesus obviously survived. Like Jesus himself said it so nicely: There is no greater love, than to give your life for another". Thanks Longinus, the greatest saint of them all...

[edit on 25/5/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 06:35 AM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


I share the belief that Jesus was influenced by buddhism and other Eastern ideas. But like you said it's kinda off topic, so, later...



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Why is it so important to you that he died? So that you can continue to believe the lies of the Pope and your aunt that you then somehow don't need to die? That he died for you? If he was killed, he was killed for your transgressions towards the Spirit who witnes not reality, but the hopes and beliefs of the people and gods of this world.


firstly, what does the pope have to do with this? and i dont even have an aunt.

secondly, to say that jesus didnt die is to miss several thing about the bible. its to claim that he wasnt the son of god, its to claim that a ransom wasnt needed and it is to claim that the bible is not inspired.

in fact, it makes worshipping god pointless.

1 cor 15:[12] Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
[13] But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
[14] And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
[15] Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
[16] For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
[17] And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
[18] Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
[19] If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
[20] But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
[21] For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
[22] For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 01:40 PM
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It will make twisted Christian worship, like you say, pointless. And it is, and Paul saus so himself. Paul never witnessed the crusifiction or had even seen the guy, but you hold this Pharicee's way of explaining Jesus crucial as if it was a mechanial method to get to heaven. God is love, and love saved Jesus from certain death. Love, and God, is a motivator, it makes us do good things. And instead of breaking Jesju's bones, he instead proclaimed him to be the true Son of God, and instead performed a rather violent looking surgical prosedure which allowed Jesus to breath again. And the sponge with vinegar lying by would make a great valve. Then all they needed to do was to save him from ending up in the fires of Gehenna, where all dead convicts were burnt and condemned for good. Suddenly, like an angel, Joseph of Arimathea is there with his contacts and money and manages to buy the lifeless corpus, they hurry up to his tomb and the rest is mystery until the tomb is found open three and a half days later, when Rosemary meets the risen, and like any other patient he has to say to her who wants to hug him, that he is still not fully well after the incident the other day, so she can't throw her arms around him. Love works. You can't get something to happen without doing something. Leaving it all into the hands of the Lord, like Christians tend to do, is to tempt God, and you wouldn't want that, would you? Satan revealed for Jesus what he would test his followers in. Here, have some granite, it is marbleous...

[edit on 25/5/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


Not really, it's my opinion that his teachings and his message was perverted into a device for control by those that came later. Also, the only reason the title son of god has any revelance in this day and age no one uses it. But back then it was a common Hebrew sentiment that they were all children of god so thusly not all that remarkable a claim. I think that is part of the perverting I talk about earlier.



posted on May, 26 2009 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
...
it was a common Hebrew sentiment that they were all children of god so thusly not all that remarkable a claim.


Indeed being a circumcised male Jew, meant you were a son of God:
Deuteronomy 14:1 You are the sons of JHVH Elohim.

However, the Jews called Jesus a Samaritan:
John 8:48 The Jews answered him, "Aren't we right in saying that you are a Samaritan...?"

Emerentiana, grandmother of Mother Mary, together with her husband were immigrants from Britannia where her family had generated a conciderable fortune mining for tin and lead in particular. This link may explain why Joseph of Arimathea cared for Jesus' body at Golgatha, saving him from Gehenna, for according to one source "Joseph of Arimathea was referred to by the Romans as 'Nobilis Decurio' or Minister of Mines to the Roman Government". When they had revived Jesus and the crap hit the fan for real, Joseph of Arimathea is said to have fled to Scotland. Jesus and Rosemary, together with their children, one of them called Sarah fled to France and ended up in England. The Kolbrin is the legacy after Joseph of Arimathea, and you can read it online at www.thekolbrin.com...



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