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Big Oil before congress: If you take away our 18bn tax breaks, gas prices will go up.

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posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 09:55 AM
reply to post by dawnstar

If there were enough people that didn't depend on petroleum on a daily basis, then it might work. The problem is that it'd take a lot more than not driving for a day or two, to have an effect. They know that they can hold out a lot longer than we can.

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 10:44 AM
reply to post by defcon5

How can you pay $250,000.00 a year when you only have an average salary of $57,000.00? That is ludicrous. I can't imagine a doctor who makes $57,000.00 unless he is spending all his time doing charity work.

My daughter had a brain tumor and the surgeon worked on her for about 2-3 hours and the bill was over $200,000.00 and I don't mean the hospital either but the surgeons bill. $57,000 a year my rearend.

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 12:46 PM

Originally posted by BlueRaja
reply to post by DYepes

Nationalizing is a terrible idea. The government absolutely can't operate as efficiently as the private sector. There are very few things the government does well, and most other things the solution is to throw money at problems or add beauracracy. Also, that'd just mean higher taxes, because that'd be one more thing that WE the people would have to pay the government to do.

Who says the private sector is efficient? Since when? Let me tell you something about corporations--they are SO inefficient, and SO bloated, and SO full of incompetent fools they can barely operate day-to-day. I won't name names, but I work for a company that does outsourced hiring for major companies. Basically, our clients are so big they can't even handle their own human resources anymore. They can't set solid policies, they can't keep their stories straight when we ask questions that need answering, and nobody ever knows anything. The comic strip "Dilbert" is more real than you can imagine. I'm guessing you're either in a small business or self-employed, because if you've ever worked at the rank-and-file level in the corporate world you'd know just how back-asswards it really is. Hell, for every dollar spent on for-profit health care in this country, thirty cents goes directly to paying for paperwork. That's efficiency?

Government inefficiency is a lie perpetrated by the neo-conservative movement. The only reason that lie is coming to be true now is because they've spent the last 30 years systematically destroying this government by cutting funding and forcing out the professionals who posed a threat to their regime. Read some history books. Look at the efficiency of government from the fifties and sixties. God, I am so sick of this anti-government, anti-tax, privatize-the-fire-department BS! Government separates us from animals, people. Without it you would have chaos and anarchy. Unless you actually want that sort of thing, in which case you've got a flippin' screw loose. Is government out of control? When it comes to domestic spying, secrecy, and the police state, yes. Is it incapable of providing needed services? No, but some people are trying to make it so.

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 03:08 PM
reply to post by The Nighthawk

Would you care to tell us what the government does more efficiently than the private sector? The government has been inefficient far longer than anyone has used the word "neo-con." Believe me- there is plenty of incompetence in the Federal govt too.

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 04:25 PM
reply to post by The Nighthawk

Government inefficiency is a lie perpetrated by the neo-conservative movement.
Really? Just a lie? I would like your opinion on this shining beacon of government efficiency.

Nancy Pelosi wants to replace the 18-year-old Capitol lighting system with a new energy efficient system that will cost $672,000. The current energy bill to keep the Capitol lit up at night is $15,000 a year.

If the new lighting system cost $0 to run, it would take 45 years to recoup the cost of the new system.

Please show me an example of any private sector business doing something this boneheaded. Something like this would only come from an entity that can legally confiscate my money at gunpoint.

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 07:09 PM
reply to post by Karlhungis

And what they were afraid to say was that oil companies employ hundreds of thousands of workers; drill, transport, and refine the oil. They take all the risks, and get 10-12¢ per gallon for their efforts. This is somehow gouging the public when City, State, and Federal taxes hit your pocket for 50-70¢ per gallon.

So who is REALLY gouging you? OK, the oil companies take 2¢ less per gallon. But Uncle Sam should be willing to take 20% less too! And then gas would only fall by 14-16¢. And Uncle Sam does NOTHING for that money.

But who is REALLY gouging you? The free market bids the price for a barrel of oil. And it's going up because of uncertainty around the world. So the ONLY recourse we have is to DRILL OUR OWN! And until you all start complaining to your representatives, we'll continue to be gouged by the Mid-East and the money going to killing Americans.

Please, learn a LITTLE bit about the system.

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 07:23 PM
reply to post by Nunny

You honestly think that prices would go down if we were to drill our oil here? I seriously doubt it.

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 07:37 PM

Originally posted by 024ORP
maybe they should boycott oil and look somewhere else for gas. There's Hemp, corn (i think), nuclear power. i dont know anymore. they should use hemp for gas. It would really be good for the enviroment.


Someone in Australia is working on a Project that will Power the Legs to travel at the Speed of a Bicycle for Free. Other projects are also in the pipeline, as now is the time to come up with answers to the Energy Crisis, that Dubya and Co Inc created, it's here to stay, until someone cracks the code. There's an opportunity for every situation, take the challenge.

Oil Stock Brokers on the Chicago Futures Exchange have already collected huge amounts of Hedge Funds Money from Frenzy Clients, trying to make-a-buck on the Oil Brothel Bonanza, little knowing that these Money Sharks are just waiting to turn into Ghosts, "The Disappearing Act"

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 08:12 PM
Some interesting dialogue on this in

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 08:26 PM
reply to post by damwel

I did not make up those numbers, I simply looked them up. I know that many physicians make much less than what many folks consider that they do, and they often have to pay outrageous amounts of liability insurance. The doctor you are talking about is a specialist neurosurgeon with a ton of additional schooling, and you can bet he is paying at the top end of the liability scale. Also, just because the bill said that that money went to the doctor, does not meant that the money actually went to the doctor himself, but rather to his practice. In his practice he has overhead that has to be paid for as well out of that money. So out of your 200K he had to pay for office staff, maintaining an office, liability, record keeping, and every other thing you can think of that involves running a business. There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes prior to a surgery, both at the hospital and the private practice, that you are probably not aware of, and a lot more folks involved then you realize.

Not every doctor is a specialist neurosurgeon, and most don’t make the salary that folks think that they do. It was so bad for a while that people were leaving med-school because they knew they would come out in an extreme amount of debt to a job that would not cover their expenses.

posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 03:23 PM
reply to post by Christian Voice

I agree that they are making far more money than seems reasonable. It's crazy. Right now, as a friend pointed out to me, everyone still has gas in their tank, the stations aren't suffering from shortages... This isn't like it was in the 70s.

Since the war started, and since Katrina, gas prices have for some mysterious reason gone steadily up. I think that since we kept our consumption at about the same level after Katrina, an actual disaster that I can credit with disrupting oil production (for a while, only, though), Big Oil realized that they could get away with higher and higher gas prices. If we'd all stopped buying at the pump, (Yes, I know that's not easily possible, I live in a rural community, I understand lack of public transportation) it'd would have eventually hit them enough to make them drop the prices to a less exorbitant price at the station. Instead, all we've shown them is that we'll pay what ever they ask - "Keep gouging us, please, it's FUN!"

I have a friend whose job brings him into contact with these companies - he says that if someone sneezes wrong across the globe, they raise the price. They raise it for no real reason. It's ridiculous. Unfortunately, our society is car-centric. For many years I've been without a reliable car, and have driven out of town only with the help of others. You're looked down on if your "ride" isn't up to speed. And as I said, some communities simply do not have ANY public transportation. Riding bikes is great - in an area with an agreeable climate - in good weather on reasonable terrain - if your job has storage for the bike and you don't mind arriving sweaty. Done that. Arriving at 8 am stinky and sweaty and staying for 9 hours, knowing you're smelly and can't change because you'd just have to ride home and get sweaty again on the way back is not a good way to start your day. Rainy days, don't even ask.

We're in a lose-lose situation at the moment. We either have to give up the idea of the open highway and 3 cars in every garage and work on crazy but needed mass transit (tubes, teleporters, I don't care), or we have to stop paying Big Oil to bend us over since that's the only thing they'll respect. I just bought a car. I'm glad I don't have to bum rides anymore, but I feel odd propagating this system that is driving up the price of everyday goods in addition to simply charging me a ridiculously high price.


[edit on 4-4-2008 by Sheeple]

posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 07:28 PM
Of course the price of oil will go up if the tax breaks are removed! The tax money would come from the consumer's pocket.

But I don't buy the bit about it hurting alternative energy investment. Naturally, the more expensive oil is, the more attractive the alternatives become.

posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 10:44 PM
reply to post by Karlhungis

You're righ t that we need new refineries, but you're wrong that the oil companies don't want to build them.

Actually the oil companies would like to build new refineries, but the process has become so politicized that they haven't been able too. The greenie weenies have consistently sued and used the regulatory process to stop the approval or siting of any new refineries.

And actually refinery CAPACITY keeps increasing and has at least doubled in the past 30 years. So even though there aren't more refineries the existing refineries PRODUCE more oil than they used to and continue to increase production each year.

Additionally, Congress keeps closing off access to our natural resources for exploration and exploitation. They have banned all oil and gas drilling for 200 miles from the coast. The last energy bill, which raised fuel economy standards and established and renewable fuels standard, also banned oil and gas exploration on Colorado's Roan Plateau, which is thought to contain abundant supplies of both. Senator Boxer and Congressman Markey tried to force the government to declare Polar Bears an endangered species before the government sales of oil and gas leases in Alaska because such a designation would have stopped the sale.

Also, gas prices have shot up so dramatically because the value of the dollar has plummeted dramatically in the past several years, but especially 2007. Because oil is priced in dollars for a producing nation to receive the same VALUE today, they have to raise the price of oil. For example, if the value of Kuwait's oil sales to the U.S. were $50 billion in 2002, they would have to charge $80 billion today in order to receive the same value for the same quantity of oil sold. The dollar has lost its value because of Congress's profligate spending.

Finally, I know everyone thinks oil company profits are excessive, but as a proportion of total revenue (which pays for operating expenses, salary, etc.) it is only about 10% -- they actually lag FAR behind the pharmaceutical industry and are only slightly above average for all industries in the U.S. It's just that their revenues are so large that the 10% actually is a large dollar figure.

posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 11:38 PM
reply to post by Uneven Steven

What your not mentioning is that 8% is left over after all of the spending. After all the high pay and perks they give each other in the company plus politicians arent cheap these days so trust me it would be a lot more they just couldnt spend it all.

Side note Sheeple I love the name and pic hehe it describes well a few people on ATS.

posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 01:51 AM
Here is how Hugo Chavez is handling the issue. It is an interesting take on it.

"Because of high oil prices, oil companies have excessive earnings that go beyond reasonable levels of profitability," Legislator Angel Rodriguez told state news agency ABN.

"One way to distribute them to our people, who are the owners of the oil, is to create this tax." The windfall tax will take 50 percent of oil revenue above $70 per barrel, Rodriguez said, and an additional 60 percent of revenue over $100 per barrel.

posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 12:35 PM
I did not know we had so many pro government socialist types on these boards.

posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 08:27 AM
reply to post by Uneven Steven

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on a point. Gas prices have not gone up because the dollar is shot. Gas prices are going up because we are being butt raped by the big wigs at the oil companies. Nothing else is to blame. This crap didn't happen before we had an oil tycoon in the head seat.

posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 08:33 AM
reply to post by searcus

What's worse, a little socialism or an unchecked monopoly? On paper, I like Chavez's take on the situation. In reality though, who knows?

posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 03:00 PM
The fault is not with the oil companies, who are unapologetically greedy beyond measure as are all private companies by capitalist definition. No the fault is with the government. Anyone ever heard of legislation...? That is what governments are supposed to do, but they are not. I wonder why...

posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 03:07 PM
Want to solve the problem of higher gas prices? According to Hillary Clinton, just vote for her, because "big oil" will be on trembling knees knowing she will magically transform our power systems to alternative fuels and the "big oil" companies will drop their prices dramatically so she will not move us to alternative energy sources. Yes, she really did say that. Well, I added the magically part, because she didn't elaborate on how she would do this.

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