Big Oil before congress: If you take away our 18bn tax breaks, gas prices will go up.

Originally posted by The Nighthawk
Damn right. Wanna make something of it?

Yeah, socialism sucks!.....and is un-American.

You keep saying this.
So I would say they have been paying their fair share.
Again, source?

Let me see if I can find it........
Here it is.....

There is more than one source but I'm sure you know how to Google.
I really don't see the point because I'm sure you will find someway to discredit it.

Exactly how much? What percentage of their gross income? What's the actual dollar amount? No more generalities. What's your source?

I don't have there tax returns but here is a link:

Big Oil Tax Link

I want people held accountable for their actions.

What actions?
You mean the action of making a huge profit margin of 8 cents per gallon of gas.

Originally posted by The Nighthawk


This has nothing to do with deciding they have too much money. It's about making them pay their fair share back to the society that buys their products and gives tham all that money. In a democratic republic supposedly for, of, and by the People, the People decide how much that "fair share" is. As one of the People, I don't think they're paying what they should, and they're dragging their feet on alternative energy.

In a democracy(which isn't the type of system we live in by the way- we live in a Federal Republic), the people don't decide what "fair shares" are, aside from voting with their wallet. The whole "don't be selfish, give it to me" mentality is tiresome. I recommend taking some Economics and Marketing classes, and learing about supply/demand, business cycles, etc... . It's terrible policy to have the government interfere with market forces.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
People resist building nuclear plants because of the chance of radiation causing damage. Besides, a nuclear reactor is not going to produce oil. Oil is used for more than producing gasoline. Just think of all the lubricants and plastics made from oil. We need something to replace oil.

Solar power is no way near efficient enough to power a nation or even a large city.

Nuclear plants are safe for the most part. I don't think we should completely rely on nuclear energy, but we can certainly use it to power 50-60% of the country and be safe. We have ways to effectively destroy low and medium-level waste, and I believe MemoryShock found a source that showed a technology to help deal with long-term waste. Nuclear energy is a viable source.

And no, lubrication is not the main source of our oil problems. The oil companies do not make money off of lubrication. I didn't say we couldn't import oil, I just said we can relax the stranglehold it has on us. Why would be so actively against that?

Also, where do you get your information? Solar energy can do some good work, and we havne't fully developed it yet. You should read up on it. If we used Nevada, California, and Arizona deserts, most of the West Coast and some inland could easily have their homes and businesses powered by solar energy alone.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
Yeah, if you want to drive a go-cart and I don't. Again, think of all the energy, material and machinery, which uses oil, required to build your electric car and batteries. If this were to happen, another corporation would arise to replace big oil. It would be the corporation who produces the most of the rare elements required to build these batteries for your electric cars. Instead of everyone complaining about 'big oil' it would be 'big battery'.

I don't even know what this means? "Big Battery" first of all? What? Batteries aren't a depletable natural resource. What are you talking about?

Second, do you even know anything about electric cars? Go-cart? Those things are fast. I mean really fast. I believe some of them got 0-60 in under 5 seconds. It's not about the power, they are light-weight.

Also, maintenence is cheaper (ie, no combustion engine). However, for the people afraid of change, yes I'm refering to you, they can still go hybrid.

The technology exists to have engines that run soley off electricity, but also have combustion engines for when the battery runs dry (or if you just want to keep using oil out of stubbornness).

You should really look things up. It's not all as you imagine it. You're not giving our race enough credit for our creativity - we can find other ways to live without oil.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
Yeah, socialism sucks!.....and is un-American.

If "American" to you means selfish, greedy, disgusting pigs fat on the blood of the working class, then Hell yes, I'm anti-American. I love my country. But we can do better. And the first step in that is overcoming greed. Unrestrained capitalism is dangerous. It destroys economies, jobs, and lives. Only through social consciousness can America move forward. This isn't the 1800's anymore. Throw out the coon-skin cap and the myth of the indepentent American as a country unto himself and wake up to the fact that we're all in this together.

What actions?
You mean the action of making a huge profit margin of 8 cents per gallon of gas.

No, the action of colluding with suppliers to drive up prices and screw the American people, while preventing alternative sources from reaching the market.

Originally posted by Christian Voice
. What are they gonna do with all that money once they've bankrupted all the businesses and people and there is nothing left to buy?

Seeing as there are capped wells all over Texas and untapped reserves all over the world, I doubt there will ever be "nothing left."

Originally posted by Sublime620
I don't even know what this means? "Big Battery" first of all? What? Batteries aren't a depletable natural resource. What are you talking about?

What do you think makes up a battery which powers electric cars? There is not a unlimited supply of materials. Perhaps you should do a little research first.

Second, do you even know anything about electric cars? Go-cart? Those things are fast. I mean really fast. I believe some of them got 0-60 in under 5 seconds. It's not about the power, they are light-weight.

The versions you and I would be driving are not like this. You also mentioned light-weight....well guess what? Accident = death.

You should really look things up. It's not all as you imagine it.

I was just about to say the same about you. You must be able to read minds.
Look, I am not stuck on oil but I do want to wait until there is a feasible replacement before jumping ship.

Originally posted by The Nighthawk
If "American" to you means selfish, greedy, disgusting pigs fat on the blood of the working class, then Hell yes, I'm anti-American.

That is your sad interpretation and has no basis in reality. People you are condeming are the people who made changes and invented things we use today. And guess what......they made money. So really, you are calling yourself all those nasty things.

No, the action of colluding with suppliers to drive up prices and screw the American people, while preventing alternative sources from reaching the market.

You asked me for links because you were tired of generalizations, and I provided them.
So I now ask you the same. Please provide proof for that statement or is it another opinion?

Originally posted by BlueRaja
In a democracy(which isn't the type of system we live in by the way- we live in a Federal Republic), the people don't decide what "fair shares" are, aside from voting with their wallet. The whole "don't be selfish, give it to me" mentality is tiresome. I recommend taking some Economics and Marketing classes, and learing about supply/demand, business cycles, etc... . It's terrible policy to have the government interfere with market forces.

I have taken some classes. Enough to know the stock market is no different than a riverboat casino, and that the playing field is not level.

As for "government interference" in the markets, they already do that. It's called corporate welfare. They bail out failing companies, set regulations to prevent competition, and send Americans to die in God-forsaken hellholes to prop up the military/industrial complex. Government interferes plenty. They interfere to make sure the people who have money and power, keep their money and power in perpetuity. It's all about promoting the elite above all of society, above the law, and above any kind of repercussions for wrongdoing. People on this site talk about the "NWO" all the time. Who do you think the NWO is?

reply to post by WhatTheory


So your arguments are:

• Because there is no engine, an accident would cause you to die.
  
  
• We will run out of batteries
  
  
• Nuclear and solar combined are not feasible (though you never listed a valid reason)

Batteries are recycled by the way. Wet cells are made up of sulfuric acid and lead - I doubt we'll be running shortages.

And the car accidents one...

While I don't see any statistics you've shown to prove it, I'll say this:

DRIVE SAFER THEN! Don't you think it's worth it? We'll certainly make up for the few deaths gained in accidents by dropping the many deaths in wars fought over a natural resource.

Anyone else think the same people who are grilling the oil-companies over profits, are the exact same people who can not only vote themselves a pay-raise, but are pushing for higher taxes on gasoline to stop the public from driving so much?

reply to post by SaviorComplex


Oh, and don't forget that many of them hold shares in Oil Companies and have particular interests.

A little lobbying and donating can go a long way.

Yes now in California they want to raise fuel tax again,guess un Cal;ifornia like not to have highest fuel cost,looks like any chance of prices going down just pissed out the window

Originally posted by Sublime620
So your arguments are:

No, that is exactly what I was saying.

Batteries are recycled by the way. Wet cells are made up of sulfuric acid and lead - I doubt we'll be running shortages.

Sorry, but the batteries to power tomorrows electric cars are not made up of acid and lead. That is todays batteries used for gasoline cars. The materials used for the electric cars are made up of materials which you cannot recycle.

DRIVE SAFER THEN!

They are called 'accidents' for a reason.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
That is your sad interpretation and has no basis in reality. People you are condeming are the people who made changes and invented things we use today. And guess what......they made money. So really, you are calling yourself all those nasty things.

Bullsh!t. The rich despises the working class. I can attest to that from experience.

You asked me for links because you were tired of generalizations, and I provided them.
So I now ask you the same. Please provide proof for that statement or is it another opinion?

I'd love to! Unfortunately nobody's investigating what, oh, some 90% of Americans already know in their gut. And, not having the resources nor the authority to investigate it myself, there's not much I can do.

But let's consider some facts we all should know by now, eh? Oil was around $27/barrel when Bush, an oil man, took office. Now it's over $110/barrel in just seven years. That's one Hell of a jump. We know PNAC wanted a "Pearl Harbor" event so they could invade Iraq and "secure" the oil fields there. Sure enough, they got one, and we invaded. Had we not, Saddam would have dumped his oil on the market, driving the price per barrel even lower. We know Venezuela's oil companies are nationalized, and in response the other oil companies have thrown lawsuits at Venezuela and frozen their assets so they won't be under-cut. We know oil is being traded like candy on the playground in the commodity markets, and that speculation is driving up prices even more. This can't all be coincidence.

Originally posted by Sublime620
Oh, and don't forget that many of them hold shares in Oil Companies and have particular interests.

A little lobbying and donating can go a long way.

But I don't think it goes far enough, at least not in the minds of certain members of Congress. To them, the greatest crime the oil companies are committing is (on top of making a profit) not giving the government a bigger cut.

[edit on 2-4-2008 by SaviorComplex]

Originally posted by The Nighthawk
Bullsh!t. The rich despises the working class. I can attest to that from experience.

I'm sure some do but it's not the norm.
People will always hate some other person. Look, most of the people you label as rich worked hard for their money and don't despise the working class.

I'd love to! Unfortunately nobody's investigating what, oh, some 90% of Americans already know in their gut.

Just what I thought....no proof and it's your opinion. So because of this, practically your entire argument is moot.

reply to post by WhatTheory


I suppose you are talking about lithium phosphate? Do you have any sort of source that shows we will run shortages on that, and that they cannot be recycled?

I've never seen that, would be interested if you had one.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
I'm sure some do but it's not the norm.
People will always hate some other person. Look, most of the people you label as rich worked hard for their money and don't despise the working class.

Again I call Bullsh!t. Most of these guys are born into it. Bush and his cronies sure were. This stuff is kept "all in the family". That's why they have secret societies like Skull and Bones, to help keep the elites' private club going and weed out anyone who might come from the bottom and throw the Big Boys into chaos. And yes, they despise the poor. Most, if not all. The working class is a tool to be used, abused, and thrown away. If that wasn't true there would be no such thing as sweatshops, there would be no need for a minimum wage, and there would be no need for child labor laws. But we have them--why? Because the rich hate the workers.

Just what I thought....no proof and it's your opinion. So because of this, practically your entire argument is moot.

Nope. Not moot at all. Opinion holds more weight than you realize. Do you vote? Voting is an opinion. Judges' rulings are opinions. Just because I have an opinion doesn't negate my argument. My opinion is based on evidence that you already know is out there, along with personal experience. Your opinion is that capitalism is great, business should be allowed to do whatever it wants and charge whatever it wants without consequences, and there is no such thing as wrongdoing in business. Mine is that business needs to be reined in because they're destroying this country. You're obviously a hard-core conservative, and I'm a socialist liberal progressive. More Americans than ever are coming around to my way of thinking. Get used to that.

[edit on 4/2/2008 by The Nighthawk]

Originally posted by Karlhungis
How can they possibly expect to turn a profit without juicing the tax payer for an additional $18,000,000,000 in tax breaks.

I'd like to know why we even need to pay taxes. It's not like congress balances the budget. They just print money up and it's really backed by nothing. I bet you in 2012 they tell us that all money is wothless and we have all been believing a lie for our entire lives.

I personally think society should take matters into it's own hands for once and stop depending on the gov't to do everything.They have you trained to be dependent like domesticated animals.

As far as I'm concerned I would rather see this country fold like a cheap shirt, then we could do away with the weak. Then all the useless and trivial matters of life such as vanity,greed and the such would be eradicated. The basic need for survival and the reality of rebuilding the world would take over our instincts.

I'm personally tired of everyone fighting about which race,religion,money,what's on mars,some alien and whatever else you can think of. Stop buying oil and start walking or biking the fat off your American @zzes (myself included). Live a healthy lifestyle and watch how fast their raised prices do nothing when everyones robbing the gas at gunpoint.

Doesn't matter.The simple fact is that we CAN"T sustain this pace and it won't last. Call it intervention, nature or whatever you want but us parasites are multiplying rapidly and expanding our need for everything w/out contribution and sucking our host ( mother Earth dry).

Enjoy life !!!!!