When Evangelicals come out to vote.

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by LDragonFire

 

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. First of all, I didn't see any frothy mouth rabidly hateful Christian comments in those threads. I admit I have only participated fully in a few of your threads and only quickly scanned the first pages of the other links. It looks like you are trying to show examples of hateful Christians?

Lets just say I have questions, and here on ATS I'm attempting to have them answered with discussion, discussion that in real life Christians seem to shy away from

First of all, I didn't really see that but of course I am biased. Second, although it is sad when a Christian is a poor example of the faith (and of course I admit I am guilty of letting emotions and ego get in my way sometimes and am just as guilty), judge the faith by the texts, not the people.

People are people, it just seems to me that if Christians are truly touched by God, it would show in there everyday life. Really Christianity has cut a bloody path through history I bet more people have been killed in the name of Jesus Christ than any other name in history, I bet Christianity has destroyed more cultures than any other group in history they held a convert or die mentality for well over one thousand years, yet they to this day they claim a higher morality.

The God in the old testament is not a God of compassion or love, this God promised free will it was our gift yet if you chose not to believe he would destroy you eg: Sodom and Gamora and the great flood.

You said to another member, "Uh I challenge you to prove that Christianity is a religion of compassion and love!!!" Well, that would be easy to do. Christianity is very obviously a religion of compassion and love. However, it is the people that act like doofuses. Simply because they're people who still learn and grow.

It's not obvious to me or my ancestors.

It's not a magical, instant transformation where we become saints. We're still people.

I guess I expect more from the divine.

What I find interesting is most cultures/races on Earth developed there own versions of religions, I wonder why people have embraced the one the Jewish people created, based on Egyptian, Persian, and Greek religions.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


nope. didn't vote for him. haven't voted in a presidential race since i voted for jimmy carter.
that was a long time ago.
i don't think it's just demos, i think the repubs are in on it too. afterall, kerry and bush were skull n' bones buddies.
looks like the whole thing is a big "Order out of Chaos" scenario. Shrug.
there's literally, nothing new under the sun. i'm just learning to accept my situation, which at the moment could be worse and could be better.

reply to post by darkelf


I believe in Jesus Christ but am not a Christian. Why? Because his name has been so tainted! The history of the Christian movement has not been a good one. To be Christian is to take on the beliefs of Christianity, of which is questionable.

Jesus did not start Christianity but Paul ran with the torch. His character is very debatable in many recent discoveries by Biblical scholars. He was a man that staunchly and with charisma stepped into the role of power, controlling everyone (including the apostles) to do his bidding, and the entire process of the Christian movement. He felt he was inspired to run the show, and therefore instigated the start-up of Christian congregations or churches. He encouraged all to follow his example, and said so on numerous occasions. All under the guise of authority from Jesus, but it was an illusion, for Paul was actually the backbone of the movement.

I very strongly believe that Paul was used by the dark side to create an enigma that would soon take man into the dark ages and then into the feudal system, with inquisitions to support the Church. It should be no surprise that Christianity would be involved in politics. When were they not?

I could know longer be part of something so abhorrent and with such demonic power behind it! Jesus said that one would know who his people are if they have love amongst themselves. We can certainly say that history speaks for itself regarding; so-called Christian love. Can we honestly say that Jesus was this fickle? Would he really want his name attached?

To be hated for righteous reasons is one thing, but to be hated because of misleading mankind down an ugly path - is another.

[edit on 1-4-2008 by MatrixProphet]

[edit on 1-4-2008 by MatrixProphet]

Then do you not believe the Great Commission to take the gospel into all the world? Paul was the one who ministered to the gentiles. Should the gentiles not have been included in the saving process? (sorry worded so simply, but I'm tired and having a hard time finding words).

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Uh, where did I say I voted for Bush? I simply said I haven't decided who I will vote for in the upcoming election and generally vote for the person I believe best for the job; not along party lines. I think you must be assuming that because we're Christians, we fall into the generalization so many other religions, including atheists, try to force us all into.

reply to post by MatrixProphet

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by darkelf

 

I believe in Jesus Christ but am not a Christian. Why? Because his name has been so tainted! The history of the Christian movement has not been a good one. To be Christian is to take on the beliefs of Christianity, of which is questionable.

My understanding of being Christian is following the teachings of Christ. As I stated earlier, I follow no organized religion. I read the Bible and other works both secular and Christian. I am not afraid to read views that do not necessarily line up with mine.

Jesus did not start Christianity but Paul ran with the torch.

Are you disavowing the first five books of the New Testament? Jesus promised the Holy Spirit after His resurrection. This was fulfilled at Pentacost.

His character is very debatable in many recent discoveries by Biblical scholars. He was a man that staunchly and with charisma stepped into the role of power, controlling everyone (including the apostles) to do his bidding, and the entire process of the Christian movement. He felt he was inspired to run the show, and therefore instigated the start-up of Christian congregations or churches. He encouraged all to follow his example, and said so on numerous occasions. All under the guise of authority from Jesus, but it was an illusion, for Paul was actually the backbone of the movement.

That Paul was as coarse as he was charismatic I will not argue. He often argued with the original 11 disciples because he was bringing Christianity to the gentiles. Originally the disciples felt that since Jesus was the Jewish Messiah, Christianity should be for the Jews only. Paul was not trusted at first because before his conversion, he persecuted the early Christians. Now how could he persecute Christians if he was the originator of the Christian movement?

I very strongly believe that Paul was used by the dark side to create an enigma that would soon take man into the dark ages and then into the feudal system, with inquisitions to support the Church. It should be no surprise that Christianity would be involved in politics. When were they not?

I strongly believe that man’s greed was used by the dark side in the guise of religion. This is the corruption of Christianity. Religion is the bad guy here, not Christianity. Many people have trouble distinguishing between the two.

I could know longer be part of something so abhorrent and with such demonic power behind it! Jesus said that one would know who his people are if they have love amongst themselves. We can certainly say that history speaks for itself regarding; so-called Christian love. Can we honestly say that Jesus was this fickle? Would he really want his name attached?

Agreed. This is why I have left organized religion. Many people call themselves Christian, yet have no idea what the name means. Others use it to fulfill their own lustful desires. I am not responsible for them or their actions. I am only accountable to God for what I do and say.

To be hated for righteous reasons is one thing, but to be hated because of misleading mankind down an ugly path - is another.

Jesus said that the world will hate us for His name. I expect that. I just find it sad that so many have used His name for such dreadful purposes.

reply to post by idle_rocker

Should the gentiles not have been included in the saving process?

Saved from what? Or saved in what way? Remember, I am no longer religious, and that saying is very religious.

Note: I do not believe that Jesus came to save the world in the way that Christians believe. Nor do I believe that he came to start religion. If he did - then it all failed! History is my witness. Nor do I believe that he would be part of something that has such pagan aspects to it nor such discrepancies amongst all the beliefs. I do not feel him to be the least bit lukewarm, and he would have to be, in order to go along with pagan Christianity.

Christianity is part of "The Lie" Evangelicals prove it by even voting! Jesus said he was no part of the world, hence his followers should be no part of the world, not unless we want to be like all the other lukewarm Christians who decide which parts of Christs message they want to follow, or not.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by idle_rocker

 

Should the gentiles not have been included in the saving process?

Saved from what? Or saved in what way? Remember, I am no longer religious, and that saying is very religious.

Note: I do not believe that Jesus came to save the world in the way that Christians believe. Nor do I believe that he came to start religion. If he did - then it all failed! History is my witness. Nor do I believe that he would be part of something that has such pagan aspects to it nor such discrepancies amongst all the beliefs. I do not feel him to be the least bit lukewarm, and he would have to be, in order to go along with pagan Christianity.

Christianity is part of "The Lie" Evangelicals prove it by even voting! Jesus said he was no part of the world, hence his followers should be no part of the world, not unless we want to be like all the other lukewarm Christians who decide which parts of Christs message they want to follow, or not.

"Our eyes are open when it suits us to see" and not until then. Converting Christians is the same as them witnessing to you. I was incredible at witnessing as a Christian and constantly praised from the pulpit- the feeling is only more powerful than the desire to to be called up for your testimony- it is similar to what an actor feels during a curtain call- only Christianity's has the illusion of deity associated with it- you will not be able to break this and in your relentless attempts to educate/relay information, you will only be drawn into a debate that will strip you of the credibility of your own journey and the "lost" ones looking will have more difficulty finding you and receiving your very enlightened message.

No one can save or re-save someone who already believes they are saved. The contest you have been sucked into does not really exist except to distract you and those who would seek an alternative.

No one hears the "heretic" cries while she/he burns at the stake in the city center as it only serves to remind those who would question.

Answer their question before they move into town and save them from "heresy" by building a village of your own. Better they never see the city and suffer from burning stupidity amid the "spectacle" of fire. Those who survive will find their own way out and hopefully to the healing salve offered free of charge in the village.

[edit on 2-4-2008 by dk3000]

reply to post by dk3000


Thank you! Advice well taken. I remember when I first left religion and how lonely it was. I was always so grateful for any new discovery that I was on the right track. It can be a scary thing to leave something that was such a pivotal part of your life. I sucked up new information like it was sustenance. I also had a lot of anger - knowing like the masses - I had been duped!

I thought this was interesting:

Obama Could Win 40 Percent of Evangelical Vote, Says Expert

A well-connected authority in the evangelical world said in an interview this week that Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama could get up to 40 percent of the evangelical vote.

The fascination with the charismatic Illinois senator combined with evangelicals’ effort to not be seen as an appendage of the Republican Party could swing evangelical voters in Obama’s favor, predicted Mark DeMoss – a prominent public relations executive whose clients include Focus on the Family, Franklin Graham, and Campus Crusade for Christ – to Beliefnet.com.

“I will not be surprised if he gets one third of the evangelical vote,” DeMoss said in the interview. “I wouldn’t be surprised if it was 40 percent.”
Obama Could Win 40 Percent of Evangelical Vote, Says Expert

Now this when you add the fact that so many evangelicals voted for Bill Clinton for his second term makes things look even worse for McCain. Seems that Evangelicals can't stand McCain, I personally view McCain as a closet neo-con while attempting to come off as moderate. He flip flops every time the wind changes direction.

If upto 40% of Evangelicals vote for Obama he will win the election.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
There are Christians and some are Evangelicals but the ones you are talking about do not really exist. It's a myth made up by the NWO to fool you right into their plan. The NWO is the Satanic conspiracy. The bible predicted the NWO 2000 years ago, now you are throwing out the one Book that tells you how to deal with it.

I love stuff like this. Everyone seems to have their own ideas of what the conspiracy (if there is one) is, and who by.

#1) "These guys are conspiring against us!"
#2) "No, we're not - these guys are! And we're the only ones who know how to stop it!"
#3) "That's a lie, it's not them and it's not you, it's actually those guys over there, and they're tricking you so you don't believe they're a problem. I should know, because my group's the only one that really knows what's going on and how to deal with them!"
#4) "Well, you're clearly trying to hide the fact that your bunch is the actual conspiracy! I know because I've got a book and a model house made of toothpicks that tells me so!"
#5) "Fool! Toothpicks are the real conspiracy! I should know, because...."

And on it goes.

But, to jump on the bandwagon, the only ones that come close are the plans laid out by the Right in the late 60s/early 70s to combine religious, political and business interests & efforts to reverse the decline they saw in the 60s, and the Council for National Policy, a religious fundamentalist political strategy group.

[edit on 7/23/2008 by Nightflyer28]

Starred and flagged! I strongly agree with everything you had to say here and we share an extremely similar point of view my friend. Keep saying it like it is.