The Social Taboo of Criticizing Radical Islam

The ad hominem and blatant false accusations are stupefying.

Originally posted by t0ken
In all your threads you only repeat 2 things...

In all my threads? This is only the second thread I have ever created relating to Islam.

First you talk about how blood thirsty these radicals are.

Second, go back carefully and read my comments to this thread and my other thread about Wikipedia images of Mohammad. Several times I broke up fights and and stated I did not want it to turn into a hate fest of derogatory comments. I'll supply you with quotes if you are too lazy.

Second you moun like a little girl about people who don't agree with you.

I'll assume moun = moan. And no, not remotely. I have openly stated opposing views are acceptable and that some are bound to disagree. Again, I will supply quotes if you are too lazy to go back and read.

Can we pleae move forward with something new because i am bored reading the same thing again and again with a different twist.

I'm certain there are hundreds of thousands of other threads on ATS/BTS/PTS. Possibly millions. Take your pick if you find this one boring.

Now I really need to go and get some work done.

I wanna make a view points here...


1st of all Islam is in no way against christianity.

Islam regards Christianity and its people, as the PEOPLE OF THE BOOK and are required by Shari'ah law to be respected and protected.

We regard Jesus as one of the Special Prophets of God sent to the tribes of Israel.

He was sent to replace those old currupted laws with new Bible.

wasnt it the jews who killed him?

jews dont believe in Jesus Christs Prophethood or as u call him son of god, to this day.

then how come jews are more respected than muslims in Christian societies?

you might recalls the so called "Islamic Terrorism"

one mans terrorists is anothers hero.

as we all know Opperesion comes in the cost of resistance.

i am sure any open minded christian brother in this forum would turn to war if his home, food, land, women were to be attacked.

im sorry for taking your time, just wanted to make a few quik points.

On a side note, that is another example of what I am talking about. I have done nothing wrong, made a thread, posted a theory, have been discussing said theory, been beyond civil, accept opposing arguments, and have provided differing levels of evidence to support my theory and opinion. Not once have I made it personal or 'snapped' into a lack of civility.

Yet I am still labeled as an 'obsessed' person 'moaning' around in my thread acting 'crazed' and 'foamed mouth' who 'gulps down hate jizz' but defends 'murderous Christian freaks' and generalizes all Islam as 'blood thirsty.'

Interesting.



I must have overestimated this crowd.

reply to post by AshleyD

Now I really need to go and get some work done.

Posting pics of radicals from google isn't as hard as you're makin it sound like.Like t0ken said 'your point has been proven' about how radical the radicals are.Can you show us some real radical conspiracy to spice up the topic atleast

You may have a point here.

I see a society scared of criticising Islam - they will not say boo to a goose when Mohammed is involved yet will slate off Jesus which is ironic as Jesus is massively important for Moslems as well. Yet these don't get reported nor do we hear of death threats.

This may get worse as the Islamic population grows faster than other population and becomes more important at the ballot box. Although I am seeing a kick back to the "political correctness" brigade in all sorts of areas.

In the early middle ages, the Moslem society was more advanced than the west as the religion allowed free forward thinking and tolerance - a more open society - hence its quicker progression. The lack of criticism whether conversation, debate or joking is stopping the faith from progressing (e.g. where is the debate about the role of modern women in the faith? or homosexuals?)

For the record, I am fundamentalist agnostic - if I believed in God, my God and his minions would be big enough to take a bit of criticism though

Originally posted by Attari
Can you show us some real radical conspiracy to spice up the topic atleast

You have 15 pages sprinkled with evidence from not only myself but numerous other posters. Again, some is exact, some is anecdotal. But you must have not even bothered to read anything except for what you are wanting to see. Did you even bother to read my comment? Apparently not or else you would have seen this statement from me:

"Now, most people will agree that this is stating the obvious. Unless you live under a rock, we know radical Islam lashes out at some of its detractors. Whether they are Muslim or Infidel, woe to those who do not submit. But what about the social pressure to not criticize Islam?"

Then I continued with other forms of evidence.

Uh oh. If you are going to gripe, know your facts.

Now go back and reread the comment and other comments if you so desire.

[edit on 2/26/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD

You have 15 pages sprinkled with evidence from not only myself but numerous other posters.

I wana know something new about these radical conspiracies.The ones you have stated in '15 pages sprinkled' are same old that i keep hearing time and time again.

reply to post by Attari

I wana know something new about these radical conspiracies.The ones you have stated in '15 pages sprinkled' are same old that i keep hearing time and time again.

So basically you're asking for more evidence on top of the 15 pages of evidence that has been provided.

Oh, or do you want to discuss a different conspiracy regarding Islam? That's your right. Make a new thread. But this one happens to be about the silence and stigma of criticizing radical Islam.

Islam intolarant? Against Christianity? Redical?

You Decide...........


Please Read all.



God only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong. (Quran 60:9)



Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth. (Quran 7:159)



Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous. (Quran 3:113-114)



And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book (Jews and Christians), those who believe in God, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to God: They will not sell the Signs of God for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and God is swift in account. (Quran 3:199)




Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. (Quran 5:82)


And when it is recited unto them, they say: We believe in it. Lo! it is the Truth from our Lord. Lo! even before it we were of those who surrender (unto Him). (Quran 28:53)



This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them. (Lawful unto you in marriage) are (not only) chaste women who are believers, but chaste women among the People of the Book, revealed before your time,- when ye give them their due dowers, and desire chastity, not lewdness, nor secret intrigues if any one rejects faith, fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good). (Quran 5:5)



Some people laugh at Muslims for not eating pork, take a look at this Bibilcal Verse

"And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase." Deuteronomy 14:8

Come on Ash... I've given you a lead earlier (and a good one which you can actually use to support your thesis, which might even convince melatonin). Why aren't you following up on that instead of rehashing old news with a new spin?

reply to post by templar knight

if I believed in God, my God and his minions would be big enough to take a bit of criticism though

If someone sweared at your parents on your face..what would you do?
I am sure you would turn around and say something back..
Now why would you do that? Because you love your parents and someone swearing at them for no reason is Not acceptable!

Muslims love Muhammad at that level or higer aswel.It truely hurts their feelings when people make mock out of their prophet for no reason.

We know that it hurts them but we still poke the stick into them.Radicals than feed this 'poking' to young angry Muslims which makes them react radically aswel.

The radicals should be given the example of their prophet muhammad's character and teach them that their prophet never reacted aggressively but always smiled when abuses were hurled at him.


[edit on 26-2-2008 by Attari]

Originally posted by Attari
I wana know something new about these radical conspiracies.The ones you have stated in '15 pages sprinkled' are same old that i keep hearing time and time again.

I think it's sort of a case of 'case-closed', 'jury decided', taboo exists. It's similar to the atheist conspiracy thread, the level of evidence required is not that high, all about truthiness. It involves lots of claims of 'yeah, that is so true' and some not so convincing evidence repeated continually.

reply to post by Al-Mahdi


Welcome, Al-Mahdi. Thank you for joining us and adding your insight from a Muslim perspective. In my original thread and other comments, I tried to make it clear this conspiracy theory is not about whether or not Islam in itself is intolerant or Anti Christian. This 'disclaimer' was purposely issued because I have a serious interest in discussing the taboo of criticizing Islam. I also did not want it to turn into a hate fest against Islam.

Thank you very much for adding your view but my question is: In your opinion do you think there is an intentional silencing of Islamic critics either by social stigma or violence?

This has become a pretty heated discussion with most members choosing an absolute view. Do you feel there is, there isn't, or there might be?

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Come on Ash... I've given you a lead earlier (and a good one which you can actually use to support your thesis, which might even convince melatonin). Why aren't you following up on that instead of rehashing old news with a new spin?

If it's the Saudi idea, it's actually a good point. These are the dudes that even the laws of the UK don't apply to. £££££££££s trump laws in the UK apparently.

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Come on Ash... I've given you a lead earlier (and a good one which you can actually use to support your thesis, which might even convince melatonin). Why aren't you following up on that instead of rehashing old news with a new spin?

I'm still working on it! I also promised Mel a complete reply instead of the portioned reply earlier but it took me about an hour to do the last collection of evidence and about 30 minutes to collect the evidence comment before that and I'm getting exhausted. Supposed to be house cleaning but instead I have multiple windows open researching some more stuff.

There is a good reason why America’s founders strictly limited the government’s power to regulate speech.

The UK is taking the social taboo of criticizing radical Islam to a new level. In

an absolute travesty of justice, a British blogger, who uses the name

Lionheart, was going to be prosecuted for “stirring up racial hatred”.

The blogger posted on his page,

I am currently out of the Country and on my return home to England I am

going to be arrested by British detectives on suspicion of Stirring up Racial

Hatred by displaying written material" contrary to sections 18(1) and 27(3) of

the Public Order Act 1986.

Read His Blog

Brittish Blogger Lionheart Seeks Asylum in The US

A controversial ‘web logger’ from Dunstable is seeking asylum in America because he faces arrest in the UK for stirring up racial hatred.

Paul Ray, who regularly writes an online diary as ‘Lionheart’, was due to attend Bedford’s Greyfriars Police Station on February 18 as part of Bedfordshire Police’s investigation into his blog.

However, he has decided to apply for political asylum in America because he risks charges which carry a maximum prison sentence of seven years.

His blog includes his opinions on the heroin trade, Islamic fundamentalism and police corruption.

Mr Ray, 31, speaking to told Luton on Sunday on the phone from South Carolina, said : “I was going to meet Bedfordshire Police on Monday. But I don’t want to come back to England and get arrested.

source


Orwellian consequences of a social taboo? Perhaps it goes deeper than that




[edit on 2/26/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
The UK is taking the social taboo of criticizing radical Islam to a new level.

Is this using the same law that was recently applied to radical muslims?

Just asking...

ok i agree with the thread people are scared from Muslims. Why? we don't bite

seriously though dont you think that society collectively decided it would be better not to balantly critize Islam. If you want to see criticism of Muslims all you have to do is read between the lines.
the image of a muslim person has been tarnished so much ever since 9/11 that it became useless or futile to disparage it more than it already has been. sadly Muslims became the elephant in th room.

Here is some interesting information originally brought up by Beach Coma concerning Wahhabism and the original thread. This at least gives some information for all those who may be asking for who, what, where, why, and how evidence.

This is interesting. Wahhabism Conspiracy:
The 'Wahhabi' Nemesis: Exposing those responsible for terror in the UK

Other Muslims seem to be against them as well and offer their critical view:
A Warning to Muslims against the Bid'ahs Preached by Muhammad Ibn 'Abdi-l-Wahhab

And for anyone who needs background information of the basics of Wahhabism:
Wikepedia's An Idiot's Guide to Wahhabism

After reading it looks like some of the connections are still disputed but if there was a conspiracy of an organized network this would sound like it is it. Then with how it ties into the other parts of the world, including the U.S., gets even trickier.

Topped with the U.N.'s activities it certainly seems like something is there. And if we wanted to get really wild we could bring up the Cairo declaration as well but I don't think this crowd is prepped enough to think outside the box using back door logic. Essentially, something must have been going on for such a declaration to have been necessary in the first place.

I'm pretty ignorant of the Wahhabi angle but it is interesting nonetheless.

[edit on 2/26/2008 by AshleyD]

Great Post. You've done a good job of trying to keep the people on tract. I hope to read more of your posts in the future.

Bob