The Social Taboo of Criticizing Radical Islam

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posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 01:47 PM
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NOTE: This thread is not about the religion of Islam itself but about the injustice of anyone speaking out against Radical Islam being labeled intolerant and treated like a pariah. It is to discuss the possibility of a conspiracy to silence all dissenters of Radical Islam either through the 'social shame' of being labeled intolerant or violent backlash from Radical Islam.

Why is it 'trendy' to make fun of other faiths but deemed intolerant to show disdain for radical Islam? The atrocities behind radical Islam are too often hidden behind the excuse of culture and respect for the beliefs of others.

Have we really become so politically correct that we're scared of speaking out against something that is so blatantly wrong?

Another thread on ATS discusses THIS website. It is a compilation of news stories concerning Radical Islamic atrocities. Some posters in the other thread deemed the entire website intolerant and biased due to its theme. But how can truth be biased? Those are legitimate news articles taken from other sources. How can someone speaking out against something that is very real and threatening be accused of bias?

If someone saw a tornado approaching, it would be like accusing them of being biased against the tornado for warning the other residents.

Why is it acceptable to speak out against other faiths but intolerant to see the forest for the trees in the case of Radical Islam? Why are we intimidated? Is the media actually programming us in the name of liberal political correctness to keep us silent? Or are they just as scared of the backlash or violence that seems to follow criticism of Islam?




posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


Wow what an amazing post.

Is that why the Danes decided to reprint the cartoons of Muhammad again?

If you think making fun out of other peoples beliefs/religions is exciting than i think you might have a problem there my freind.

I am sure you can find things that are more exciting the bashing other religions.

The muslims seem to be more firm on their belief thats why they dont like it being bashed.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 02:04 PM
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There are RADICALS in every religion. BUT, I agree...the Islamic faith is one NOONE wants to take on. Is it fear? Is it just so new/unknown to us in the west we use their actions as excuses? At this point, who knows...because I personally don't believe in one single RELIGION...I believe in one single GOD.

As I stated in another thread www.abovetopsecret.com...' since the beginning of time MAN has put his own spin on religion. We as the human race destroyed all that WAS pure and true about religion because of greed, power, and fortune to name a few. How most religions have a belief in ONE GOD, yet have 40 different denominations is beyond me...other then to prove somewhere in the timeline MAN didn't like or understand certain things...soooo he made his own way to fit HIS needs, thoughts or desires.

Anyway..off my soapbox and back to Islam....I at this point am leaning towards fear of the unknown and retaliation. When someone is willing to decapitate in the name of GOD...your going to have many NOT willing to question it. IMO



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 02:22 PM
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A number of reasons that I can see.

First off, a number of the people who are so eager to talk about the subject are the same people who ignore, defend, or dismiss Christian extremism. You, for example, are in this crowd where every murderous, foam-mouthed freak of a Christian is either "not a Christian" or "not as bad as the Muslim just like him." One would wonder why you guys are so easy to talk about radical Islam when you refuse to do the same about radical Christians. You could let Muslims handle their own stable, and you handle yours. Instead, so many people are "let's ignore the pile of turds in the middle of our living room, and talk about the one in our neighbor's!"

So there's that.

Now the other reason, is because very few people talk about "radical Islam" - In fact the only people I've seen do so are Muslims. Instead, what we get are people who try to paint all Islam by the radical elements, or people too ignorant to learn the difference.

For example, that site you linked. Take a look at it. Seriously, shuffle through the links, look at the titles. Do you see anywhere mentioned that the site talks about radical Islam? No, you don't. Because thereligionofpeace.com doesn't talk about Radical Islam. Instead it paints Islam as being radical, violent, bigoted, and so on and so forth. The site does have a little disclaimer about not treating Muslims like , but that's appended with "It's not their fault that they're too stupid to know what they're talking about"

How can truth be biased? You're kidding, right? Ashley, I know you're smarter than that. It's possible to present facts in numerous ways, without ever once being untruthful. Imagine you're speaking to a Kosovar about the independence of Kosovo and the tensions over that. Now imagine you hear the same topic discussed by a nationalist Serb. Both are being factual, telling you of the events. But do you think either is free of bias? Of course not. "Truth" and "bias" are not mutually exclusive, and I'm subtracting from your overall score for presenting a statement that begs that question.

If you want to talk about Radical Islam, I would suggest you first clean up your own backyard, and then, you know, stick to radical Islam, rather than *snip* . As for it being a "social taboo" I'm not sure where you're getting THAT from... As islam is absolutely the only religion that gets this treatment in widespread media, with an occasional mockery of Wicca thrown in for leavening.

[edit on 24-2-2008 by TheWalkingFox]






[Mod Edit: Profanity removed. Please see Terms and Conditions of Use section 1b. Thank you - Jak]

[edit on 25/2/08 by JAK]

Mod edit: to remove inappropriate language and attack.

[edit on 3/28/2008 by kinglizard]



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by Attari
If you think making fun out of other peoples beliefs/religions is exciting than i think you might have a problem there my freind.

I am sure you can find things that are more exciting the bashing other religions.

The muslims seem to be more firm on their belief thats why they dont like it being bashed.


Go back and read the note at the beginning of my thread. I double checked and it is most definitely in English.
This is about expressing disgust with radical Islam and being labeled intolerant for doing so. Not Mohammad cartoons or attacking the faith. Even Muslim moderates believe what they are doing is wrong according to the Koran.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 02:35 PM
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walkingfox...I agree with you in the aspect that there are radicals in all religions...but what other religion does the following:

-forces their women to be hidden except for their eyes
-beats their women for not obeying the man (on a religious bases, not some drunk scumbag who beats up his wife because he's a loser)
-beheads in the name of their god
-jails or beats for flirting or talking to the opposite sex
-believes suicide is a form of cleansing and doing the work of GOD, especially if you take others out with you...the more the better too

I mean anyone can see the Islamic radicals far exceed all other religious zealots....

Christians & others do dumb stuff too....but its usually more on a theory and thought basis, NOT actions. In my experiance.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


For some reason this is not getting through. It's not about whether or not Islam has radical factions, the radical factions of Christianity, or the radical factions of anything else. It is not about Mohammad cartoons as I agree those are purposely meant to be inflammatory.

This thread is about the silence of speaking out against Islamic radicalism in general. Those who do either suffer a violent or social backlash. My question is why?

You make a cartoon of Mohammad and your life could be in danger. But if something happens the response is typically, "Well, they asked for it by offending the culture." You put a crucifix in a jar of urine and call it art and the person is defended under the freedom of expression. But simply mentioning the difference, as evidence by this thread, is intolerant and biased.

[edit on 2/24/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by rcwj75
Christians & others do dumb stuff too....but its usually more on a theory and thought basis, NOT actions. In my experiance.


Exactly. Boy howdy do Christians do some stupid things. Fred Phelps always comes to mind. But the thing is, we can object to him and be very outspoken about it without being accused of intolerance. He is the poster child of media ridicule because he is so insane and Christians consider him an embarrassment. However the point is, the media, society, and even other Christians speak out against him without reprisal and are even applauded for calling him on his tactics. But say something against against a Muslim extremist who cut off someone's arms for thievery and you are a bigot.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 02:48 PM
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Good topic. I'm not sure if it's a taboo. I think many Muslims who emigrate to Western countries are either decent people who want to live like everyone else in that country, or become more 'Westernized'. Others of course are hard liners, and keep many of their 'old way's perhaps.

I'm yet to directly encounter any of things that rcwj75 mentioned. The full-body dress that some Muslim women wear is way too much, and it's a rare site to see it in a hot country like Australia. The head scarf, the way I see it, is no different from what you might find in a Catholic nunnery.

I guess you can have a radical anything, even a radical atheist. It's important to make the distinction between the two.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 02:55 PM
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Well your question should really be why are Muslim radicals soo extreme?

Simple answer:Because they are extremists and their way of extremism is chopping up flesh.

And when we see them chopping people up than it automatically creates a sense of fear in us because we dont wana be in that position.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


I don't think there's a social taboo of criticizing radical islam Ashley.

Bush/Cheney and the like have been criticizing them since day 1.

Bin Laden was smeared for the 9/11 attacks, the Taliban was considered the worst regime in history, Saddam was a 'terrorist' and the list goes on.

Muslims have been blamed for all of our societal problems.

Muslims are the scape goat.

They are talked about all the time in the media. There may not be outright blame put on them, but there is certainly an allusion to that.

[edit on 2/24/2008 by biggie smalls]



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 03:17 PM
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Here is a general analogy. Someone brings up the criticism in the Hebrew Bible of the law regarding stoning an adulterer. The defense and explanation, "it was just their culture" would never fly. We have to drag out the context and explain everything. The Jews would still be declared savages as well as their God. If someone brings up the criticism of Islamic law stoning an adulterer, we're told, "who are we to judge."

This is something I see happening quite often on ATS. In the media, I see the religious nuts of other faiths (Christianity, the New Age movement, Judaism, and UFO cults) openly being ridiculed. If a mother kills her children and claims "Jehovah told her to do it" it will be all over the news. If a man kills his two Muslim daughters for not wearing veils in Dallas it is seen on a few fringe news websites.

I have no hardcore evidence of anything but am simply putting forth a conspiracy theory for discussion.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 03:20 PM
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RCWJ,

All of them. Why? Because individuals do that stuff. Congratulations, you've proven my point. Both of them in fact. Not only to you sweep the freaks in your neck of the woods under the rug, but you try to portray the entirity of Islam as violent and extreme. I would suggest you try this thing called "research," maybe even speak to some of the Muslims on this message board about those issues - they're certainly more informed than I am... But I have a very secure feeling that you're not too eager to learn better.

Ashley,

What silence? Seriously. Is there a place I can go where I can open the paper, watch TV, or get online without constantly being told how goddamn awful Muslims, Islam, and Arabs in general are? Because after more than a decade, I could use a break from it. Like a month or two. Maybe you're just so completely numbed to it that you utterly miss it?



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD



I have no hardcore evidence of anything but am simply putting forth a conspiracy theory for discussion.


More like conspiracy theory to bash Muslims.


Muslims have something called the 'Sharia Law' according to their islamic teachings.And in Sharia law you are meant to chop a thieves hands off and stone an adulterer to death according to thier religious teachings.

If Muslims dont have problem with it than why do you keep crying out about it?

Saudi Arabia does it all that and its also best freinds with US.


I mean if you are soo worried about it than give us the SOLUTION to it Not go around bashing the religion itself.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 03:31 PM
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I think there are two different phenomenon going on here.

First, those who criticize radical Islam may come off as criticizing mainstream Islam. These people may not be taking care to distinguish between radical and mainstream Islam. They may also not take care to distinguish themselves from biggots who are against all Islam.

Second, perhaps mainstream and radical Islam may not be too close for comfort. It may be difficult to criticize ideas held by radical muslims without offending the sensibilities of many manistream Muslims. For example, many Muslims support or at least sympathize with Hamas. One cannot criticize Hamas and the violent acts if performs without offending the sensibilities of millions of Muslims.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 03:36 PM
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I'm going to take a moment to spin it around. Hope you don't mind I use your post as an example of what I often see.


Originally posted by Attari
More like conspiracy theory to bash Muslims.


The next time someone brings up Christian conspiracy theories I will just tell them they are bashing Christianity instead of discussing the conspiracy theory they are putting forth.


Muslims have something called the 'Sharia Law' according to their islamic teachings.And in Sharia law you are meant to chop a thieves hands off and stone an adulterer to death according to thier religious teachings.


The Jews have something called "The Law/Torah" according to their Jewish teachings. In Jewish law you are meant to stone an adulterer to death according to their religious teachings.


If Muslims dont have problem with it than why do you keep crying out about it?


If Jews don't have a problem with it then why does everyone keep crying about it? Especially such a sentence that hasn't been carried out in centuries unlike Sharia sentences that are carried out for such a crime frequently. And Christians understand why the law was 'cultural' for the time in antiquity and that it is now obsolete under the New Testament covenant.


I mean if you are soo worried about it than give us the SOLUTION to it Not go around bashing the religion itself.


And now we can bring it back full circle. If I offered such explanations for the Hebrew Law, it would never be accepted. But since I have questioned something about Islam (and again, I have made it abundantly clear I do not want to debate Islam but the media silence of its radical atrocities), I'm bashing the religion. This is supposed to cause immediate shame on my intolerant little head.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 03:36 PM
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Ashley: I completely agree with you. What a well written post!

I think the hypocrisy is sickening. And there is hypocrisy.


And to Attari: I think she is talking about (as an example) those who blow themselves up, along with innocent people all in the name of Islam. RADICALS. Come on, you really cant be defending that radicalism, can you?

I mean, if woman want to subject themselves to ridiculous customs such as hiding yourself from view of man...or not being allowed to talk to a man. Fine, so be it. I dont think that is what she is really refering to. Though I could be wrong LOL

I think she is talking about RADICALS - those who will kill in the name of their religon.

[edit on 24-2-2008 by greeneyedleo]



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 03:36 PM
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In every thread about this topic it tends to be always a maze circular logic.
While most understand that Radical Islamic Extremists are an evil psychotic plague that needs to be exterminated from the Earth, you have an equal number of people who want to defend them based upon either the fact that they themselves are sympathizers, or they wish to defend them based upon the "live and let live" "freedom of religion" theme. However, one needs to understand that these people are sick terrorists who USE religion as an excuse to justify their murderous genocidal actions. Ok, I can do that too.
The only way to make these terrorists stop is This:


Or this:



Frankly I will say what some are too afraid to say:
We are sick of it. We are sick of YOU(terrorists).

Some people are trying to have a peaceful society here. While we would love to do this in a peaceful, non aggressive, non war-oriented way, The Radical Terrorist Islamics will not allow for it, so we must also fight in any way we can to eradicate these people. This is my opinion, and many share it. Most are tired of hiding our true feelings on this matter.
I advocate peace, and yet I advocate the fact that we cannot resolve this with peaceful methods. Diplomacy with these psychopaths does NOT work.
Being all Ghandiesque with them does not work. What works? Things like the pictures above, until they cease to exist.




[edit on 24-2-2008 by WhiteWash]



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 03:42 PM
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So to point out: This thread in itself is a perfect example of its own content. We're still on the first page and how many people have jumped in to cry, Foul!' I purposely walked on egg shells in my original thread to show it was not about Islam but the lack of outrage regarding radical atrocities.

The very names I see in this thread who are quick to rush into Christian conspiracy threads and jump on the bandwagon o' bashing are the first ones in to turn it around and claim intolerance, bigotry, close mindedness, and spin doctoring when the subject shifts to Islam.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 03:45 PM
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Yes i know he/she is talking about radicals but whats the point when overall the whole topic will end up become a islam-bashing thread eventually.

When it comes to women being opressed than dont you think Bush should send a few cruise ships and rescue all those opressed 600-700million Muslim women from ME?
They chose to put the veil on and the environment they live in its all NORMAL.

The radicals will remain radicals and the only way to get rid of them is like my freind WhiteWash stated.

But even those mehtods dont work as more civillians will end up dying and nuking the whole ME will just be too harsh.



[edit on 24-2-2008 by Attari]

[edit on 24-2-2008 by Attari]





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