Was Jesus a Magician?

so lets talk about adam and eve now....is that story truth to you?
Truth or not i can interpret it rather well......can you tell me yours first so i dont have to make assumptions?

i MEAN WHAT do you hope to accomplish here? I dont need a priest to absolve me of sin because making mistakes is part of human life.
I will never kill someone or hurt another human being on purpose....i understand the ways of the world though and do know that violence only begets violence and that sometimes in order for physical survival you have to resort to basic instincts to come out on top. So only if my life is threatened.....actually you know what? I wont....because my spirit will live on and probably do more good on another plane of existence so if i had to kill or be killed i would sacrifice my life for the inner respect that i have for human life even if my murdere did not.

I dont need a church to tell me how to live or a book written by god knows who and manipulated by invisible forces of authority hell bent on control.

Spirituality and not religion.....labels are no good anymore.

reply to post by GUICE2


It is to me:

Mitochondrial Eve
Genetics and Biblical demographics
No bones about Eve
M. Even & Y Chromosomal Adam
Y Chromosomal Adam

reply to post by GUICE2


The whole Genesis 1 -3 creation account was not meant to be a scientific history. I have a book by a Hebrew scholar, John Salhimer, on it. It is way more complex than I feel like getting into right now.

There were angels that rebelled long ago.... Satan was one of them. God created man to teach them a lesson and because he wants worshippers

Satan tempted eve --- she went for it --- brought a seperation from God in

I believe they disobeyed God and that brought separation from God which is what evil amounts to.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


too vague man...to damn vague.
Those gods that created man? Yea...they were from other planets.
talk about selfish...you think a man made religion and book trumps ENTIRE GALACTIC REALITIES?

Seriously....ancient religions werent religions. They didnt know what else to do other than "worship" what they could not understand because they simply couldnt conceptualize it.

I cant wait until someone reveals what is hidden beneath the sphynx about our parent civilization.....you are talking about one message, one story, one beleif structure about the existence of humanity. It doesnt get any more selfish then that dont you think?

And how far down this slippery slope do you go? Any evidence brought to you about where we actually come from would be written off by a statement such as "Well god created them too, etc..." ?


"God works in mysterious ways"
That statement has probably killed more people than any other sentence in the english language. So what? What am i supposed to do? not find out why the sun doesnt revolve around the earth? Not find out why aliens visit this planet? Not question any authority in front of me because if its too mysterious to grasp then and there it is just "god acting in mysterious ways"?

Im not mad at you guys....only the millions of human lives MURDERED in the name of these religions we adhere to on this planet enrages me beyond belief.


YES....its the same religion as yours. It's structure is the REASOn why millions were persecuted and burned alive at the damn stake. Its the reason why millions were persecuted and slain in the middle of the streets during the spanish inquisition. You gotta ask yourself why and not just fall back on that blind faith "God works in mysterious ways"

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Dont eat from the forbidden fruit of knoweledge. What a crock.
Even by the logic of the bible it doesnt make sense.

Is reason evil? So i shouldnt reason? Yet the bible states that god created man in his image which is inherently good and compassionate because it is defined by unconditional love right? So then why give us free will to use reason to come to concluisions but then say "wait a sec, dont look behind that curtain!"
come on man....the tree is a representation of all the ancient wisdom and truths held away from mankind because if it fell into the wrong hands we would all be vulnerable and naked in this world. Look around you....it is already happening.

people keep praying, going to church and giving donations to these corrupt institutions and NOTHING has changed.
NOTHING AT ALL!!!

Except of course in those nations and countries that adhere to these religions and built society around them....everyone else is a heretic.

[edit on 29-2-2008 by GUICE2]

[edit on 29-2-2008 by GUICE2]

Originally posted by GUICE2
reply to post by Bigwhammy

 

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YES....its the same religion as yours. It's structure is the REASOn why millions were persecuted and burned alive at the damn stake. Its the reason why millions were persecuted and slain in the middle of the streets during the spanish inquisition. You gotta ask yourself why and not just fall back on that blind faith "God works in mysterious ways"

You've been watching too many you tube movies dude.

More people have been killed by communist governments with no religion than all of what you said combined. Hell just China did more.

The Bible covers all the ancients. I am very familar with the Sumerians and all

The other Gods were fallen Angels and Angels .

The Bible is way deeper than you know....

Here read this is my view !!

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Bro understand that i take all that into account....and communist countries dont kill their own people. THe ways of the world that wants nothing to do with them is what destroys these countries because like the USA, no one wants to trade with them because of their social ideas. So they starve and see nothing more than starvation and lose hope. Take that and throw a dictator in there and you have a huge problem but at least the people dont kill each other for paper.

The bible was created by man dude....and i dont watch you tube videos about this crap.

NOt at all......i came to these conclusions by myself.

What do you think communism is based on? Do you even know what it is? Remember to stay away from labels and understand the agenda behind it and the agenda is the overall wellbeing of the people, not the government or religions but the PEOPLE who live. Its about teaching infrastructure and evolution through determination and personal responsibility to your fellow man and not profit and greed. forget about the negative connotations attached to the idea because ideas and men can be corrupted by those who have enough power to.

I bet now you are going to tell me that communists eat babies like they were telling this country during the vietnam war.

Sheesh, i know people have their beleifs but sometimes it turns into a neurosis.

I think the bible went something like this....

"Everyone look hes walking on water!"

"Wait a second those are stilts"

Jesus: "No there not, behold the power of god"

"I can't see the wood, look"

"God, no longer likes you, go away my son"

reply to post by Bigwhammy


the sumerians calle dthem those from the heavens and you call them angels.


Im more realistic....i call them beings from another world with powers and technologies that we do not have but can and need to better our humanity and survive the natural disasters of both this planet and the galactic environment.

Thats all they are....can they walk on water? Probably....but that doesnt mean i should worship them.
Ancients had no better choice than to worship. We were still a young race and had not developed the reasoning skills that we have now as a race.

reply to post by GUICE2



did you read the link??

Angels are beings from another world and they're superior.

I think that one day you'll find out that the Bible is true...

believe what you want

I gotta do some other stuff

so peace Guice2 be true to yourself

later

If this ONE god exists he isnt ours because we are so damn far from his existential plane that there are so many other things we need to learn first before we can actually reach that level. What i beleive that is on top is the creational existence that we are all a part of. We are all one and we are all together at the same time....all part of the same spiritual construct which is why physical unity is important.
i dont need to delve into the bible or any other book to understand life...i just need to read true knowledge of our past. So im going to egypt!!

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Again...you are choosing this book as the SUPREME TRUTH and you call me selfish.

reply to post by GUICE2


I said all men are selfish.. nothing personal to you

Do what you think is right OK?

I've made my choice ans I stand by it. I do not have to defend it to you OK?

I really wish you the best.

When you think about it, all Jesus did punk was miracles. Stuff that people could do or fake pretty easily for the time. It was all loaves and fish.

He never manifested a jet airplane out of thin air or anything. He never did any mystical kung-fu and smacked up a couple dozen Roman soldiers. Blew up a castle with a laser beam gun. Manifested a solid chunk of platinum ten stories high in the middle of the city.

There was nothing done that was so entirely out of place as to be completely astounding or completely recognizable as an actual miracle that would defy space and time.

Oh, and don't give me that "rise from the dead" stuff. Magicians are constantly sawing ladies and themselves into pieces and reassembling themselves. Whoop dee doo.

Where's the Bible story where he gives everybody in the crowd an iPod?

reply to post by GUICE2


Going to Egypt! Really, that would be the most awesome trip, IMO. But be careful when you travel...K.

When reading your last post, Guice, I can relate so well to that feeling of alienation (not to the ETs btw) from God.

Anyways, I used to feel pretty darn alienated myself (of course that was years ago)...I was always looking, reading and investigating EVERYTHING I could get my hands on. I studied, to the best of my ability, various other religions looking for nuggets of spiritual truth I could hold onto. Dharamsala, India is one of my fondest memories. I openly admire Buddhists (the adherants to the tenets of peace, that is) and their philosphy of non-violence.

Here's a wee bit of advice before you travel for spiritual enlightenment;

Be serious about what it is you want to discover. I think "alienation from God" would be a fabulous beginning!.....Consider some ideas for exploration:

1) What IS alienation from God and how is this alienation perceived by me (this is your personal quest anyways but the same question can be applied to the rest of humanity for later reflection)?

2) What role does God play in alienation.

3) What role do I play a part of in alienation.

4) Is alienation really REAL or do I only perceive thusly.

5) Would God seperate Himself from me OR do I seperate myself from God...via by my thoughts, intents, desires, actions, etc.
-----------

I certainly think you'll have an exceptional journey and the only thing missing would be me!, lol!!!

You're bright and articulate (as the rest of us have discovered), Guice, so I think you'll be safe physically and spiritually. You'll be travelling into an area that is in lots of turmoil these days. You'll be witness to events that may prove truly disheartening to your spiritual well-being. But remember to stay focused in that you aren't there to solve the ills of the world. People are doing evil unto each other, yet you must continue and not succumb to nihilism. Despair will take you there quicker than anything, my friend.

I wish I could find the quote made by the Dali Lama (I'll look for it but can't promise as it's probably packed away in storage) that I read during my quest. And I'm paraphrasing here:

"...many people are looking for ways to worship God and I now see many westerners coming to the teachings of Buddha. This is all well and good---we need all of us to come to a realization of God; simply for the betterment of humanity and not just for selfish motives".........." the main issue I see as problematic for the westerner is due to a diversity of cultural and experiential differences; putting the western mind at a definite disadvantage....."

In short, the Dali Lama was not keen on westerners, mostly brought-up within a Judeo-Christian society trying to embrace eastern concepts.

Anyways, much good luck on your search. My own travels took me to some curious soil around the globe. And my own personal epiphany came to me only after I quit the quest and was home again. Sort of ironic in that I spent a lot of dough, time and energies looking for that "epiphany" ....later to discover it in my own backyard, literally and metaphorically! God NEVER left me....I only perceived as such!

The only other bit of wee wisdom I have to offer is to get yourself a copy of the book "The Hound of Heaven" by Francis Thompson to take with you!

That book played a part in re-discovering things I thought lost. Matter of fact I had the book, shelved it lonnnng ago only to have it show up again. Read it again and found meaning there that I couldn't discern earlier.

Sorry for the long rant, Guice.








[edit on 29-2-2008 by deenamarie53]

Originally posted by Nohup
When you think about it, all Jesus did punk was miracles. Stuff that people could do or fake pretty easily for the time. It was all loaves and fish.

He never manifested a jet airplane out of thin air or anything. He never did any mystical kung-fu and smacked up a couple dozen Roman soldiers. Blew up a castle with a laser beam gun. Manifested a solid chunk of platinum ten stories high in the middle of the city.

There was nothing done that was so entirely out of place as to be completely astounding or completely recognizable as an actual miracle that would defy space and time.

Oh, and don't give me that "rise from the dead" stuff. Magicians are constantly sawing ladies and themselves into pieces and reassembling themselves. Whoop dee doo.

Where's the Bible story where he gives everybody in the crowd an iPod?

Jesus performed miracles that people of the day could understand. IF he had performed miracles that were beyond their undersanding, i.e. making an airplane appear out of nowhere, everyone would have believed and there would have been no reason for him to die to save the future population. He would have indeed been made King of this Earth and the plan put into place before the beginning of time, would not and could not have come to fruition. Jesus died, "allowing" himself to be killed, only to rise again to save all humanity from future death and separation from God.

Remember the jews were looking for a Messiah that fit their definition...a king and warrior who would save them from Roman rule. His death and rise from the dead provided a broader good. Everyone may now obtain the fruit of his selfless act, if they so choose.

I_R

reply to post by AshleyD

Great post, Ashley! Those are terrific links! I've gotta make this more than one line, so now it is...sorry Mods.