Advice from the pros please. Re: Handguns

Originally posted by Lotiki
This thread has taken a turn for the worse and needs to be closed.The OP has gotten the information he was looking for and the names of people he can PM for mor info.

How in the hell did we get from "help a newbie choose a decent home defense pistol", to "in case the law enforcement is wearing body armor, aim high" posts?!?!?!?

Disturbs me as well. Going from self/home defense to these other topics is in no way proper or civil.

Folks here talk sitX but there is a fine line being crossed with what some of these posters are saying. Bad juju.

Originally posted by Illahee

Originally posted by Lotiki
This thread has taken a turn for the worse and needs to be closed.The OP has gotten the information he was looking for and the names of people he can PM for mor info.

How in the hell did we get from "help a newbie choose a decent home defense pistol", to "in case the law enforcement is wearing body armor, aim high" posts?!?!?!?

Disturbs me as well. Going from self/home defense to these other topics is in no way proper or civil.

Folks here talk sitX but there is a fine line being crossed with what some of these posters are saying. Bad juju.

It's really easy.


Take a no-Knock warrant

Mix it with information from a known felon

Add in the over-zealous murder of a little old lady (92) who get's her front door blasted down with police gunz a blazing

Let simmer over a city wide cover-up where police "protect their own" and there you have motive for self-defense against a heavily armed criminal element known as the PD.

www.washingtonpost.com...

This is the same PD which looked the other way when a husband of an Officer was peddling Child Porn.

I really don't understand how anyone can sit back and defend the corrpution that is going on as "isolated incidents"



[edit on 5-2-2008 by Quazga]

As it appears some believe that discussing such topics will result in eternal damnation for all parties involved, let us just call our attacker the Bad Guy. We're talking self-defense here. If we are acting within such a right, who we are defending ourselves against doesn't really matter.

I for one am quite thankful for this thread as it has turned me on to the Glock 23 and now I need to change my underwear. All is well with the world.

I have the gun for you... No one has mentioned this, but Smith & Wesson makes a .45 acp revolver. This gun fires the very potent .45 ACP round used in the Colt 1911. But the best part is you can get FULL MOON CLIPS! These clips load into the cylinder as fast as a semi-auto and you get the reliability of a revolver. Keep it loaded all the time, there's no magazine spring to wear out.

Trust me on this.. If you're gonna have just one gun, look at this revolver.



God bless our military...and question our government.

Originally posted by apc
As it appears some believe that discussing such topics will result in eternal damnation for all parties involved, let us just call our attacker the Bad Guy. We're talking self-defense here. If we are acting within such a right, who we are defending ourselves against doesn't really matter.

I for one am quite thankful for this thread as it has turned me on to the Glock 23 and now I need to change my underwear. All is well with the world.

No one likes the 357 magnum. I guess I'm just old fashioned. But that thunderous roar, visible blast, das for me.

Handguns shmandguns.
I'll take my bear compound bow any day of the week. With bone cutter heads of my arrows it will take out anything alive. Silent, deadly.

reply to post by jpm1602


We are talking about quick, easy home defense. Compound bows are for hunters. I just can't see any life threatening situation in which I would rather have a giant bow over a concealable pistol.

[edit on 5-2-2008 by Trauma]

I have pretty much settled on a S&W 357 Revolver. Thanks for all the input guys. This is one of the few times a forum has been TRULY helpful for me. Thanks a ton.

reply to post by shug7272


I personally would recommend you pick up a revolver, it is more durable than an auto with fewer working parts, and you don't have to fumble with safeties in a fast reflex scenario. A good bet if you wanted to stay around 250 would be a used Ruger GP100, these things are like tanks, I know of a guy who actually had his run over by a truck at the firing range, and the thing had absolutely no damage... don't know how he managed to have this happen, but nonetheless it is a good selling point. Furthermore the .357 magnum is a great round, lots of knock down power, a number of different rounds for various purposes, and most importantly you can shoot 38 specials out of it as well, which are cheaper and a lot less punishing for range shooting. I would recommend a 6" barrel if your primary use is at the range, a 6" barrel is still eassily wielded in a protection scenario, but it gives you a bit better sight radius for more accurate shooting at the range. I personally opted for the Ruger Alaskan in .44 magnum with a 2.6" barrel... which is a pretty nice handgun. The .44 mag will certainly put down any intruders, and the boom that accompanies the discharge is enough to make a 2 legged predator crap their pants regardless of whether the shot finds its mark or not. Unfortunately it might be a bit big for most people, and the ammo is not cheap in the least, not even when shooting 44 specials out of it, which is why I reload my own. It's not the most accurate handgun i've ever shot, short sight radius and huge recoil are big factors, but I can eassily put all 6 shots within the 5 ring on a NRA 50 foot target when im out to about 25 yards. I am personally looking into getting a used GP100 myself, and would highly recommend the gun and the cartridge as a home defense / range weapon for its economic vs power benefits. If you are willing to spend up around 500-700 then I can think of no better auto than the Sig P220 .45 ACP... unbelievably accurate, reliable, awesome shooting weapon, well worth the money in my opinion. Hope this helps out somewhat, and enjoy your time at the range - it can truly be an amazing recreational experience.

reply to post by Bad Mulder


Yeah I think it's the 625, thats a great weapon too, I would love to have one, the only problem is that i believe the best youre gonna do ffor price on that one used or not is aorund 500, and our OP here is looking for around 250ish. Also the moon clips could be great if you have a number of them reloaded and ready to roll for the fasst reload value, but they are a pain in the *** if you only have a the one ready.

Originally posted by apc
As it appears some believe that discussing such topics will result in eternal damnation for all parties involved, let us just call our attacker the Bad Guy. We're talking self-defense here. If we are acting within such a right, who we are defending ourselves against doesn't really matter.

I for one am quite thankful for this thread as it has turned me on to the Glock 23 and now I need to change my underwear. All is well with the world.

Thank you, I believe you brought up a great point here. The topic is self defense, which has no way of indicating who the bad guy at the time would be.


I don't actually own a gun either, so it was also informative for me.

reply to post by Grizzly Bear


Ruger gp 100 in a .357 is a very nice weapon ive got one for my wife but she shoots .38 thru it and i shoot the .357 thru it they are definetly tough as nails mines been thru hell and still shoots everytime

Originally posted by Grizzly Bear
reply to post by Bad Mulder

 

Yeah I think it's the 625, thats a great weapon too, I would love to have one, the only problem is that i believe the best youre gonna do ffor price on that one used or not is aorund 500, and our OP here is looking for around 250ish. Also the moon clips could be great if you have a number of them reloaded and ready to roll for the fasst reload value, but they are a pain in the *** if you only have a the one ready.

Yea I upped that to 600 later on and it looks like I can find a new one for 550 or so. Thanks for the input, im not huge on brands so I am open to any and have been wondering about barrel length. The cheaper bullets for the range are a big plus for me too. As pointed out above this gun is all about self defense in my home. It will not leave the home unless going to the range.

[edit on 5-2-2008 by shug7272]

Yea, mine is the 625. Plenty of full moon clips pre-loaded within arms reach as well...just in case. I just went on the S&W site. Cool guns & high priced.. I agree the guys who suggested the Ruger in .357 magnum. Get it with a 4" barrel and you'll be set.

I also had to check out Grizzly's 44 mag Ruger Alaskan "snubby"...NICE CANNON!!!! I want one!
...and puttin' all six in the hole at 25 yds

See, you don't need barrel length to hit your target, just practice. And in Grizzly's case, a pair of brass balls. I'd get the Ruger with a 4' barrel or less.
We'll talk about the 3 gun matches you'll be into later.

Yeah practice is a MUST. I think I've put about 3500+ rounds through my "cannon" to get the results I have now, lemme tell ya it didn't start out with results like that. It's also important to note that i reload my own, so I have found the load that works best in my Alaskan down the the hundreth grain of powder (including the most effective powder, a whole other issue). I have found that the .357 for me is like shooting a BB gun, but then again coming off a .44 mag with jacked up 300 gr Corbon "grizzly stoppers" will make most smaller rounds seem like pop guns in comparison. I agree with Mulder that if your gun is most likely not going to leave the house, then 4" would be best. In my case I said 6" barrel, because I'm gonna get a 6" when I buy my GP100 (would prefer the larger sight radius provided by longer barrel). For the most part your velocity won't change all that much with barrel length, and the change will be negligible, especially if you're just using it to render the bad guy immobile. Longer barrels will have better initial accuracy because the sight radius will be longer (the shorter the sight radius the greater the degree in which your shot will be off with a slight flinch or hand wobble) but with practice, any weapon can be deadly accurate.
I also noticed some posts about the 9mm, which a few years ago I wouldn't have recommended. Lately however the 9mm has really grown a set of balls. The loads they have available for this caliber now have some serious oomph and I wouldn't say a 9mm is childs play any more. I personally opt for the 10mm myself, I had a Colt Delta Elite in 10mm that I loved. Unfortunately 10mm these days cost as much as a 44 mag defense round, so the best bet would be to go for the 40 SW (40 short and weak for those who know what I'm talking about) due to its popularity and fair pricing.

But still for the first handgun I wouldn't get away from the revolver. Such a fine piece of weaponry in every respect. If you can go up to 600$ for the price then pretty much the sky is the limit. I would recommend going with a used gun from a reputable dealer - you'll get the best deal on used, and if the guys at the shop you buy from aren't a bunch of thieves then it will be in fine working order, also used guns won't be all that different from new guns in the long run for the savings you'll incur. I don't know if you'll ever find one for 600$ or less these days, but a the Colt Python in .357 mag is widely considered the Rolls Royce of revolvers, and I would give up almost any other gun I currently own to have one. My Father has had one since the 70's and it is the smoothest most accurate revolver I have ever shot, and I'm a revolver enthusiast if you couldn't tell

Lemme know what you decide on in the long run though, I'd be interested to find out.

Originally posted by Lotiki
just the sound of a shotgun chambering a round is usually enough to make the bad guy think," I'm getting the &^%$ out of here before I have to see whoever is holding that."[edit on 4-2-2008 by Lotiki]

My apologies for disagreeing with you Lotiki, but a shotgun without a round in the chamber is as useless as a baseball bat. If you feel the need for a firearm for defense, always keep a round in the chamber, ready to fire.

desert eagle

You want under 600? The baby eagle.


Oh, they've got all the stopping power you'll need. Seriously.

Friendly Mod Warning

I've seen several posts from several people on here about targeting law enforcement officers. That is not acceptable conversation in here or any other thread on ATS. Regardless of your personal feelings on the matter, making such suggestions not only puts a big red glowing targeting reticule on yourself for anyone who cares to investigate a potential cop-killer, but also puts ATS itself in danger of being blacklisted from various servers.

So, knock it off. When referring to a human target, just say "bad guy," "intruder," or something equally generic. I am not about to let ATS get blacklisted just so some "Internet Tough Guys" can talk about how much they want to kill a LEO. This is a thread on self-defense. Not a platform for incitement.

To add my two cents for the OP: I own and shoot recreationally a Glock 19 (9mm), a Beretta 92FS (9mm) and a S&W .357 Magnum revolver (among others). For pure home defense I believe I would rely on the revolver. It is easier to reload if you don't have spare mags for your autos and it is less prone to jamming. Also, the caliber offers real power of persuasion. I also recommend the shotgun idea. In my case. a mossberg 12gauge. Of course the .357 only gives you 6 rounds as opposed to 10-15 for the autos.

To my mind, few sounds would instill more fear in an adversary than that of a pump shotgun being readied.

By the way, I am not a pro by any means, but I am a long-time enthusiast, collector and target shooter (read: plinker). I also find the practice relaxing and challenging.

I've never fired a Hi-Point pistol, but I own one of their 9mm carbine rifles and it shoots just fine.

Thanks for the question. I've learned a lot from the responses (the ones on-topic). Thanks are offered to the Mod for his forbearance.

Good luck.

I agree with everyone that said get a .357 magnum revolver. A new Taurus or Rossi revolver can be had for $300 or less and will meet all the criteria in your original post.

In an automatic, you can get a Smith and Wesson Sigma in .40 S&W caliber, what most police rely on, for between $250 and $300 with current rebate. Their every bit as reliable as a Glock. I recently bought two of them and like them better than my Glock. They're simple to use in that there's no safety lever (to forget to use). Once loaded just grab it and squeeze the trigger to shoot. They have a 14 round magazine whereas the revolver will hold 5 or 6 rounds.

Whatever you get take the time to get the right ammo for home defense. You don't want a bullet that will go through your walls all the way through your house and maybe even next door.