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Advice from the pros please. Re: Handguns

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posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 01:16 AM
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This is not advice but where I live in Alaska we have wildlife and bad guys, I carry a Glock 10mm in my truck, and I have a .380 for concealment, the 10mm will drop a black bear and also a bad guy wearing several layers of heavy winter clothing. The .380 makes a lot of noise and is a strait backup piece, its not much in stopping power.
For home defense I would stick with an 870 12ga with a mix load of bird and #4 shot, a short barrel, folding stock and a tactical light on it.

I reload and am an at home gunsmith, I have a pretty good collection of rifles and pistols, my favorites (of just pistols) I own are:

Sig Sauer P220 .45acp, Hogue grips, night sights, 8 round dropped mags.Would grab first for a battle and any serious shooting because of its uncanny accuracy, real fine quality.

Ruger Redhawk .44magnum with Leupold pistol scope, handloads for bear. Requires mop and sponges if used for home defense.

Beretta 92 9mm, sturdy but light aluminum frame, very reliable. Even bad shooters with enough ammo can manage to hit something with this gun, only drawback is its just a 9mm.

Glocks 20,21 and 23 what to say about a Glock? I do have the 400CORBON conversion barrel for the .45 and hi-cap mags for all.
I will stand on a soapbox about the 10its been more reliable feeding than the .40s&w wich is a high pressure round and can go kaboom in a Glock barrel, I like the power of the 10mm and the hi cap mag, my first choice for stopping power of man or beast or even a car tire, a truly functional tool.
Ruger Mk2 .22 semi auto pistol and its clone the stainless long bull barreled AMT Lightning, both are scoped.
Thompson Auto-Ordnance .45 acp, looks like a Colt 1911, not very accurate but its useful.
S&W 9VE 9mm, cheap gun, cheap mags, bought cheap, makes a good throwaway gun, must remind myself to remove all my DNA from it.


If I were to offer any advice it just have something thats simple to operate and simple to use, for anything else you must practice, practice and practice until its an extension of you. In view of these recent mass killings in malls and other places I would go for a hi cap mag, two would be nice and at least the .40 s&w cartridge, its got more punch than the 9mm.




posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 01:26 AM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


Fair enough, good point with the fight or flight. I am trained to do this, so having a beginner do it probably wouldn't be the best choice. You're right about that.

Something you will notice though, is there is a significant difference in the velocity of the bullets from the sites you posted. Roughly about a 50% increase. A lot. There might be more ammo choices, but an increase in velocity, plus a smaller round increase the chances of overpenetrating, depending on where the bullet strikes.

Perhaps a .45 revolver would be the best choice.

BTW, I think Berettas are the cosmetically coolest looking guns and I can't wait to own one myself. Plus they feel GREAT. Good call on that one.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 03:19 AM
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First off, C0le, I really like your Avatar.


Second, as far as a good, reliable handgun, there are many choices.

As far as stopping power, I really prefer my old man's .38 Special. It's a Convertible Revolver, that can fire either .38 or .357 Magnum. Now, you only get Six Shots with this gun, but one shot from either Caliber is going to deliver punishment. A .357 Magnum will quite literally blow someone's head off, among some other things which I shall not delve into. Rest assured a gun of this type is extremely versatile ammunition wise, yet hits heavy when you need the power.


For sheer ammunition capacity I have a nice Browning 9mm. This is an auto-handgun, which uses a bottom loading clip. I believe it holds 10 rounds in its current set-up (Hey, it's not exactly MY piece, so I haven't totally looked it over).

Now of course for $250 you can get a .12 Gauge Shotgun, and that will quite literally put ANYONE flat on their back. That's the reason why we used Shotguns especially in the Pacific during WW2, it has the stopping power necessary to halt a charging mad-man in his tracks with one shot.


I don't really have any of the latest or newest guns, as these are family firearms passed down, but I will tell you they are reliable, pack the power, and simple to use. Sometimes newer really isn't always better. So many people now-a-days would fall head over heels to get an original old school Colt M-1911. Proof as the old saying goes "If it isn't broken, don't fix it".



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 03:29 AM
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Originally posted by semperfortis


I used to carry the Glock 21 and the Beretta 92f at different times... And before that, the S&W 66...

All good guns, all dependable and all require different levels of training... I was never "Out Gunned" in any situation and I had to "use" them all at one time or another.. Even the "66" was a good choice... It's all about the person and not the gun...




Semper


I hope to never see a Marine get "Out Gunned".


You are absolutely right about the person being of greater importance than the gun. If you can't react, can't aim, etc., the gun is about as good as a club. An excellent shot with a .22 can do more damage than a belligerent Somali blasting an AK (well, maybe somewhat of an exaggeration, but you get it).



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 03:38 AM
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Originally posted by shug7272
I would like a powerful handgun that is reliable and durable. I would like to stay around the 250 dollar range but would be willing to spend a little more if it made alot of difference. I dont want a bb gun, I want one with some nice stopping power behind it. I will mainly be using it at the range but in case of a home intrusion I would want one shot to be enough to stop them from harming my family. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I am well trained in firing guns but not knowledgeable at all as far as caliber, brand etc. Thanks alot in advance.


How big are your hands? Big hands handle double stacked mag guns better than say a single stack 1911, for small hands I would suggest a Glock 23 in 40 S&W with the hi cap mags.If you are not very strong there are the Titanium revolvers available that from what i hear are like firing a feather, but then if they are that lite I would expect a sharper recoil from magnum rounds where a semi auto pistol buffers the recoil to a small degree. I had a 22 magnum compact revolver, I hated it so much because it had such a nasty recoil bite, speaking of recoil the 9mm is actually good at it, the 40 a small bit harder, the 10mm next and the 45 is a bit more of an arm up motion because of the heavy bullets but it does have a low velocity which makes it for a pistol a bit more controllable.

Try to find a gun range that will let you test fire different calibers, I had a Ruger Blackhawk in 357magnum, I didn't like it because it had a fast sharp kick recoil. I am fair with my Beretta 9mm and right on the money over and over with my Sig P220 .45acp, but I'm like 215 lbs, I work out my upper body and have big hands.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 04:26 AM
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Am I the only person here whose "bed-side weapon" is a Bushmaster M4 Carbine w/a picatinny rail system topped w/an Eotech holographic sight???? Because if I am......


apc

posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 07:22 AM
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I second the Taurus. I paid less than $400 for a new 24/7 Pro Compact 9mm. It has a painfully simple hammerless operation, a mag capacity of 13 or 17 extended, triple safeties, and an integrated keyed disabling system. I have yet to have it jam on me but I take care of it. It also automatically switches from SA to DA in the event of a misfire as often the pin striking the first time will correct the problem (according to Taurus). If nothing happens when you pull the trigger, just pull it again.

I intend to purchase a Glock next, but Taurus makes reliable guns for a good price. Shotguns are always best for home defense so you don't shoot up your neighbors, but a handgun eliminates baseball bat syndrome.


[edit on 5-2-2008 by apc]



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by shug7272
Seems like everyone likes glock but you guys lost me with some of the caliber and chamber talk. Which glock would be the best as far as power goes without spending a fortune. Lets raise the limit to 600 bucks.


For your price range, and needs, my recommendation would be for the Magnum Research BBY "Baby" Desert Eagle, comes in 9mm and .45 rounds (assuming you live in America and want a standard ammo type). Depending on who you buy from, you're looking at $450-$500.

Okay, a few things though that I noticed in this thread, and really feel the need to point out. If you aren't familiar with calibers, then it's probably fair to assume you aren't too well educated on firearms. I do not even remotely mean that as an insult, but rather, an observation that, if true, needs to be addressed before you buy one.

As many in the thread have stated, guns are not toys. I would go so far as to add that they are not frivolous investments either. You would not buy a car without test-driving it and researching it. You would not select a line of power tools without assessing your needs and the capabilities of the tools. You would not buy a house without having it checked out by a Professional Engineer and Home Inspector. At least, I should hope so.

Before you even think about purchasing a firearm, you need to be familiarized with the cleaning, maintenance, safety rules, and capabilities of your weapon. You can buy the finest pistol in the world, but if you never maintain it, clean it, learn its capabilities, quirks, and so forth, it might just blow up in your hand when you try to use it. Or you might aim, fire, and find the recoil (kick) of the blast sends your bullet wildly off target.

So first:

  • Caliber vs. Gauge - These measure the size of your projectile. The larger the size of your projectile, typically the greater the stopping power. Caliber is the width of the bullet (slug). If you see a Caliber of .X, that means 0.X of an inch. For instance, a Colt .45 pistol fires a slug that is .45 inches in diameter. If you see a Caliber of X (without the dot in front) that usually refers to milimeters. So for instance, a Glock 9 fires a 9mm round. Gauge typically refers to the number of identical lead balls equal to one pound of lead. Thus, a 12-gauge shotgun cartridge packs twelve balls, each weighing 1/12 of a pound. Obviously, the larger your caliber, the heavier the weapon will be, both because of the size and construction necessary to handle the charge, but also because of the increased weight of the ammo itself.

  • Find a local firing range - See if they have classes on the proper use, care, safety, etc, on guns. Chances are they do. Most places will even give you lessons on the spot. HOWEVER, choose your instructor just as carefully. There's a good way to spot a good instructor versus a bad one. If the instructor seems overly eager, excited, and tries to sell you on how good a weapon feels, thank him for his time, and look for another place. If the instructor is a crochety mean old bastard who warns you and eyeballs you to make sure you aren't some crazy gun nut, then he's probably a good one.

  • Practice with a variety of firearms - If you ask any ten firearms owners what their preferred pistol is, you'll probably get at least four different answers. While most people fall into the Glock, Colt, and Beretta models, you occasionally get lesser known or used brands recommended. And everyone will have different reasons for their recommendations. The reason is because everyone has a different shoulder, arm, hand, eye, and coordination.

  • Accuracy vs. Stopping Power - I gaurentee you this, if I had a .22 caliber rifle or pistol, I could stop even the biggest, baddest dude in his tracks, though I have thankfully never had need to do so. The reason is because I know I can always hit my target, I know what range I can hit them at to within a quarter-coin radius, and I know where, even the tiny little .22 slug will disable man or animal. Accuracy is far more important than stopping power. Unless your intruder is a football player hopped up on PCP, any bullet is liable to bring them down when you can place it with accuracy. It is critical to understand this. Stopping power is the amatuer's choice. Given only one shot, and a choice between a big, impressive looking .45 caliber monster of a pistol, and a lightweight little .22 pistol, and I knew that one shot was the only one I was going to get, I'd choose the .22 every time. A lot of people will disagree with this, because surviving a .22 shot is very easy if the shooter doesn't know how to use their firearm effectively, but consider the problems of using a larger caliber:

    A heavier caliber pistol is going to be harder to keep aloft, fatigue your wrists, arm, and shoulder faster. You're holding a several-pound weight out perpendicular to your body, consider what has to support that weight for however long it takes until you no longer need it. Certainly in your "time of need" you are going to have to keep the weight of that several-pound bad boy up, and not casually at your side. Prolongued fire with a larger caliber will turn your hand into hamburger unless you are quite experienced with that amount of force being transferred into your hand repeatedly. The recoil of such weapons is usually quite massive, and will throw off your shot considerably, again, unless you are very well experienced in its use. You could be carrying around a 9 pound cannon for all it's worth, but if you can't hit the target, it's worthless.

    A lighter, less kicking weapon, fired more quickly, and more accurately, will take down your intruder in one shot. If you need multiple shots, or a follow-up to ensure they never visit again, it's not like there aren't several more in the chamber, and a crook with a bullet-wound is going to be a lot easier to hit the second time around.

    Anyway. That said, my point is this. PRACTICE.

    Get a list of each of these recommendations, and then go to a firing range that rents handguns. Use one for a half-hour or so, to get the feel of it, then switch to another, and then another, etc. Start with your lowest caliber first, and work your way up. FIRST find the caliber you are most comfortable with holding aloft for half an hour, firing repeatedly, and controlling the recoil on.

    Once you've figured out your weight (my guess is it'll probably be somewhere around 7.62mm or .30 cal), THEN try out different brands to see which one provides you the best accuracy, control, and the least recoil. Finally, try out different grips to see what feels most comfortable. Wood? Metal? Rubber? It varies from person to person. Be prepared to drop about $100 in rental fees, targets, and ammunition, along with a few hours spread out over a few weekends (give your hand, arm, and shoulder time to recover and "train").

    THEN, AND ONLY THEN you will know which pistol is right for you.

    Now, you may be asking, why put that much time, effort, and thought into something you'll probably never need to use, and even if you do, will probably only ever use once?

    The reasons are many: First off, it's a significant monetary investment, and you need to ensure you are getting the best tool you possibly can get for your money. Second, make no mistake, a firearm is a deadly weapon, designed to kill. When you hold a weapon in your hand, you are holding the life of yourself, your family, and anyone else within range of your projectile, at risk of forever ending their existence. Cheaping out on your weapon, or buying it frivolously with no practice, forethought, or research, puts you and everyone else at incredible risk, because you now hold their lives in a weapon wielded in ignorance. Third, the chances of you only needing to use it once are just as great as the chance you might have to use it a lot, or against multiple targets, or hold it for a long period of time while you and your wife and child wait to see if that burglar is really going to come through that door, or if they're going to leave quietly. But perhaps most importantly is that an education in firearms will perhaps more fully imprint upon you the gravity of the reality and responsibility you must assume if you are to own one.

    I hope this helps, and I hope you heed my advice.



  • posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 09:17 AM
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    Being an avid gun owner and having the God given ability to NEVER, EVER miss what I'm shooting at, I have found that it truly doesn't matter what type of handgun you purchase. It depends on how accurate you are and what type of ammunition your using. Even though a 357 or 44 is a powerful handgun with great stopping power, it's all about bullet placement and what bullet you use. If you shoot a guy in the leg with a hard nose 357, it will go straight through and out the other side and the assailant will keep coming and damage will be low. If you use a 9MM with lead cap hollow points and shoot them in the leg, the bullet hits flesh and bone, expands, and surgically removes the predators leg without hesitation. (You would get the same devastating effect using the same type of bullet in the 357.)

    If you want penetration, such as the ability to shoot through doors and hit the assailant on the other side, you use hard tips with higher powder loads getting more FPS, if you want knock down, you use hollow or semi-hollow points with less powder loads and generally less FPS.

    For home defense I would choose any of the handguns mentioned above by these wonderful posters with light loads and full lead bullet, no jacketed bullets. Knock down would be great and you also get the added affect that lead will break apart when hitting a solid object so if you hit close to them it's quite possible they'll get some "shrapnel" from the shot. Any jacketed bullets will penetrate deeply and could go places where you don't want them to. The only drawback of full lead bullets is the possibility of a jam in a semi-auto handgun. This can be alleviated by keep the firearm clean and well oiled using a high grade oil.

    Keep in mind though, don't just go buy a handgun and then let it set. Go out every chance you get and practice, practice, practice. No matter what you use, if you do use my suggestions and become also become a good marksman, you'll sleep well at night. (A 22 pistol with hollow points would be a superior weapon in the hands of an expert marksman.)



    posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 09:28 AM
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    Alot of people are mentioning Glock, personally, if you want a very reliable gun, check out the Springfield XD series, .40 or .45, awesome gun, very reliable, I think one magazine did a test where they put 30,000 rounds through it without a single problem. They feel great in most hands, and have a few nice safety features that other guns dont have.



    posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 09:32 AM
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    Well the Taurus Judge is pretty much a perfect weapon for home protection. Its a 45/410 revolver and perfectly feasible as a carry revolver as well. A 45 and 410 shotgun shell in a revolver, what more could you hope for.


    Link
    Link2

    Safety first!



    posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 09:35 AM
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    reply to post by Lotiki
     


    i hate high point but they do have a life service plan i sent mine in so banged up that they sent me a brand new gun

    but it is no where near the weapon as my glock .45 and sadly enough i put more faith in my mac-11 than my high point



    posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 09:43 AM
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    Originally posted by downtown436
    For $250 bucks your best bet would be to get a used smith and wesson .357 revolver.


    Clear winner for home defense. .38s are cheap for practice and some fairly deadly fragmenting bullets are available for the .357 shells. Most will take a grip style laser or clamp on under barrel laser, or last resort a trigger guard clamp laser. Speed loaders are available for a few dollars and work just like a six round clip. Smith and Wesson are well known to hold up to abuse and duty cycles and were the standard sidearm for many branches of the service and law enforcement before glocks came around.

    More important if you have kids in the home is a small finger key safe to keep it in. I don't mess with pistols much but my family has been in the service and law enforcement and they all keep glocks. For the money though S&W revolvers won't let you down.



    posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 09:50 AM
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    I carried the .40 Glock Model 23 for years. It is very reliable, and I never had it jam on me (not saying it won't, but good quality ammunition is key).

    One of the posters said that it is a 1 in 10,000 chance of having two bad rounds in a row in a wheel gun (revolver). Here's a story that is both funny and frightening.

    We were at the range, and I was shooting a friend's 44-70 revolver. 4 rounds in a row went "click". I was all WTF?!?. So, I went to break it down, and found out that I had cocked the cylinder slightly when I had reloaded it. So, if the gun had fired any of those rounds, it would have likely taken my hand off, or worse.

    Thank God (literally) none of those rounds fired. The strange thing was that the cylinder turned and the hammer fell and everything, but the cylinder was at an angle. Scary stuff. Each of the 4 rounds had a perfect indentation on the primer.



    posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 09:56 AM
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    reply to post by sir_chancealot
     


    You definitely had an angel over your shoulder that day.
    That is one of those very rare situations.
    I bet you spin the cylinder now before you shoot,or at least wiggle it to make sure its all good. I would after that.



    posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 10:13 AM
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    reply to post by shug7272
     


    I would recommend the Glock 34, I have one and I have to say it is totally badass. It has a little longer barrel than the glock 17, which makes for quicker follow up shots, and more accuracy. I recommend the titanium firing pin kit, and 3.5# trigger kit.

    Glock 9mm's are great. All other calibers that they offer are pure junk. They don't have a clue on .40's or .45's. The Glock 20 is a 10mm, which is great but they aren't real reliable, and if you haven't shot much you might find it to be vicious.

    The 34 is my concealed carry gun. Most people will tell you that it is not a good concealed carry gun because it is too big. I come from the theory that I want something that kicks ass, and I don't care if it is uncomfortable. It is dead reliable.

    I trust it with my life.

    When you need a gun, you need it to work, not an excuse, that is why I carry a glock.

    And yes I have had a misfire or 2 in my life with factory ammo. When it happens with a auto, all you do is rack the slide, it shouldn't take more than a fraction of a second.

    If you are going to carry or even have a gun, you better learn how to use it, and use it well, or you will be a liability to yourself and those around you.



    posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 10:49 AM
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    I am considering owning a pistol for the first time as well and just wanted to thank all of you for the information. I have an authentic WWII Ruger but it would probably explode in my face if I ever even found ammunition to put in it, and it's more of an heirloom.
    Being Canadian, guns are like satan and most canadians are pathetically scared of guns. We hear about shootings and think "We need tighter gun laws!" but the guns used in shootings are illegal or stolen anyways.
    I had always wondered why people still used revolvers and thanks to Semperfortis I know. Because automatic weapons jam.
    Now here are some gun myths I've heard and I was wondering if you could clear some of them up.

    1) A .22 round jams much more easily than others because of it's size
    2) A hollow point round is the best for home defense because it does not penetrate and does maximum damage to unarmored targets.
    3) The .22 and 9mm are "pea shooters" and do not incapacitate the target
    4)The glock 18 is the best glock ever made
    5)Guns kill people



    posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 11:29 AM
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    Originally posted by Trauma
    1) A .22 round jams much more easily than others because of it's size
    2) A hollow point round is the best for home defense because it does not penetrate and does maximum damage to unarmored targets.
    3) The .22 and 9mm are "pea shooters" and do not incapacitate the target
    4)The glock 18 is the best glock ever made
    5)Guns kill people


    1) Yes, and allso because it's rimfire construction
    2)True
    3)9mm will incapacitate a target most of the time and no handgun caliber is 100% single shot killer
    4)Glock 18 is the Full Auto variant and by no means the "best" variant, as majority of the people (including myself) can't shoot it properly on Full Auto
    5)No comments, but majority of people die of stupidity, either their own or someone elses.


    To OP:
    Try the gun before buying, for example Glocks don't fit my hand at all and i feel very ackward shooting them... it doesn't make the glock a bad gun, but i surely wont buy one



    posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 11:48 AM
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    Originally posted by Trauma
    I

    1) A .22 round jams much more easily than others because of it's size


    True. A semi-auto .22 will need more care and cleaning in order to run properly.


    2) A hollow point round is the best for home defense because it does not penetrate and does maximum damage to unarmored targets.


    Partially true. While it does more damage to the target and transfers more energy, most modern hollow-points will still over-penetrate a bad guy with enough energy left to harm others, as evidenced in this video where the bullets pass through the robber and still have enough force to go through tempered reinforced glass behind him. (The bad guy lived, tried to sue, was thrown out of court. Ruled by DA as justifiable shoot.)


    Now, before everyone gets their underwear in a wad, I would prefer to keep the "was the clerk right to shoot " arguments quiet, there is another thread where they discuss that.

    3) The .22 and 9mm are "pea shooters" and do not incapacitate the target


    Untrue. The vast majority of people killed with handguns are killed with .22's(54%) and 9mm(2nd at 19%).

    4)The glock 18 is the best glock ever made


    The Glock 18 is a full auto Glock 17 with some slight changes made so you cant swap the main parts. It is looked at by most as a "novelty" or "proof of concept". It is hard to control, expensive and inaccurate. Other than the fact is is a select-fire weapon, there are no differences from a regular Glock.

    5)Guns kill people


    Sure, and my pencil mis-spelled all those words in high-school and a fork made Rosie o'Donnel fat.
    Guns don't kill all by themselves.


    [edit on 5-2-2008 by Lotiki]



    posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 11:56 AM
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    Originally posted by semperfortis


    Don't risk your life or the life of your family on a discount gun or inadequate training...

    Semper



    Semper, I wonder if you could put down a few words on clearing a jammed semi-automatic?

    I have a Bulldog 44 Special and 12 gauge shotgun for home protection.
    Along with a three or four cell (depending where I'm at in the house) MagLite.

    I carry a Ruger P89 (9mm) when we trek the dez on one of our turquoise hunting/exploring forays.
    I'm pretty comfortable with it and have never had a problem with it- which doesn't mean it won't hang up someday.

    Other times I carry a Super Blackhawk 44 magnum or Single Six 22 Magnum with 9 1/2" barrel - carries easier than it sounds.

    The choice made with destination in mind - Javelinas or Rattlesnakes which we see and have yet to have a real problem with one - but the 9mm goes along most times since it's the easiest carrying one as well as it doesn't impinge on entry or exit from the Jeep.

    The only tool carried is a good quality pocketknife.
    Not counting the rock hammer and combination walking stick/stone picker-upper gadget.

    I'm comfortable with the P89, but knowing a little more about it - or any semi-auto pistol - and clearing jams would be nice....

    [edit on 5-2-2008 by Desert Dawg]



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