the 9/11 memory hole

And as I said in the original post, you would not accept it because of its source. However, what I posted was one of the notes derived from reports that originated outside of the commission.

Originally posted by Retikx

-hijackers passport (ejected out of his pocket through the fireball to the street)

Actually lot of stuff survived passage through the buildings

wtc7lies.googlepages.com...

wtc7lies.googlepages.com...

Lisa Anne Frost was 22 and had just graduated from Boston University in May 2001 with two degrees and multiple academic and service honors. She had worked all summer in Boston before coming home, finally, to California to start her new life. The Rancho Santa Margarita woman was on United Flight 175 on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, when it became the second plane to slam into the World Trade Center.
...In February, the day of the Columbia tragedy, we got word they'd found her United Airlines Mileage Plus card. It was found very near where they'd found a piece of her right hip. We imagine that she used the card early on the morning of Sept. 11 to get on the plane and just stuck it in her back pocket, probably her right back pocket, instead of in her purse. Source

Same randomness at work as in a tornado which can level a house and
leave the dining room table with china untouched

Originally posted by OrionStars
The facade was steel clad aluminum.

In my understanding of English, clad means "a layered covering". A little googling and there's confirmation, and also the added factoid of "bonding". Clad metals are two or more metals bonded together. If that ain't "touching", then I don't know what is. So you're admitting that aluminum was touching steel. Thus, the possibility of galvanic corrosion.

Originally posted by please_takemyrights
Even though the thing BLEW UP big time, the crew compartment was relatively untouched after the explosion...

You answered your own question, and it's not relevant to 9/11 at all. The Shuttle crew compartment was "relatively untouched", so of course the bodies where intact. The crew compartment was probably designed to protect the astronauts as much as possible in an emergency. Something tells me, though, that the nose of each airliner -- since they were the first bit to impact -- were quite "touched", if not obliterated, and the cabins were also very "touched", because airliner cabins aren't designed to protect people from impacts of that nature.

This question was asked to Richard Clarke when he testified, heres the transcript

ROEMER: We will certainly be looking to people in future hearings for their recommendations in a host of different areas. So I hope that you might think through this area a little bit more and be available to us.

Mr. Clarke, let me ask you some difficult questions for you to get at the complexity of our relationship with the Saudis.

One the one hand, I think there's a great deal of unanimity that the Saudis were not doing everything they could before 9/11 to help us in a host of different areas; 15 of the 19 hijackers came from there. We had trouble tracking some of the financing for terrorist operations. But we still have too many of the madrassas and the teachings of hatred of Christians and Jews and others coming out of some of these madrassas.

We need to broaden and deepen this relationship. I will ask you a part A and a part B.

Part A is where do we go in this difficult relationship? And part B is to further look at the difficulty here. You made a decision after 9/11 to, I think -- and I'd like to ask you more about this -- to allow a plane of Saudis to fly out of the country. And when most other planes were grounded, this plane flew from the United States back to Saudi Arabia. I'd like to know why you made that decision, who was on this plane, and if the FBI ever had the opportunity to interview those people.

CLARKE: You're absolutely right that the Saudi Arabian government did not cooperate with us significantly in the fight against terrorism prior to 9/11. Indeed, it didn't really cooperate until after bombs blew up in Riyadh.

Now, as to this controversy about the Saudi evacuation aircraft, let me tell you everything I know, which is that in the days following 9/11 -- whether it was on 9/12 or 9/15, I can't tell you -- we were in a constant crisis management meeting that had started the morning of 9/11 and ran for days on end. We were making lots of decisions, but we were coordinating them with all the agencies through the video teleconference procedure.

The Saudi embassy therefore asked for these people to be evacuated; the same sort of thing that we do all the time in similar crises, evacuating Americans.

The request came to me and I refused to approve it. I suggested that it be routed to the FBI and that the FBI look at the names of the individuals who were going to be on the passenger manifest and that they approve it -- or not.

I spoke with at that time the number two person in the FBI, Dale Watson, and asked him to deal with this issue.

The FBI then approved -- after some period of time, and I can't tell you how long -- approved the flight.

Now, what degree of review the FBI did of those names, I cannot tell you. How many people there are on the plane, I cannot tell you.

But I have asked since: Were there any individuals on that flight that in retrospect the FBI wishes they could have interviewed in this country. And the answer I've been given is no, that there was no one who left on that flight who the FBI now wants to interview.

ROEMER: Despite the fact that we don't know if Dale Watson interviewed them in the first place.

CLARKE: I don't think they were ever interviewed in this country.

ROEMER: So they were not interviewed here. We have all their names. We don't know if there has been any follow up to interview those people that were here and flown out of the country.

CLARKE: The last time I asked that question, I was informed that the FBI still had no desire to interview any of these people.

ROEMER: Would you have a desire to interview some of these people that...

CLARKE: I don't know who they are.

ROEMER: We don't know who they are...

CLARKE: I don't know who they are. The FBI knew who they were because they...

ROEMER: Given your confidence in your statements on the FBI, what's your level of comfort with this?

CLARKE: Well, I will tell you in particular about the ones that get the most attention here in the press, and they are members of the bin Laden family living in the United States.

And, let's see, in open session I can say that I was very well aware of the members of the bin Laden family and what they were doing in the United States. And the FBI was extraordinarily well aware of what they were doing in the United States. And I was informed by the FBI that none of the members of the bin Laden family, this large clan, were doing anything in this country that was illegal or that raised their suspicions.

And I believe the FBI had very good information and good sources of information on what the members of the bin Laden family were doing.

ROEMER: I've been very impressed with your memory, sitting through all these interviews the 9/11 commission has conducted with you. I press you, again, to try to recall how this request originated. Who might have passed this on to you at the White House situation room? Or who might have originated that request for the United States government to fly out -- how many people in this plane?

CLARKE: I don't know.

ROEMER: We don't know how many people were on a plane that flew out of this country. Who gave the final approval, then, to say yes, you're clear to go, it's all right with the United States government to go to Saudi Arabia?

CLARKE: I believe, after the FBI came back and said it was all right with them, we ran it through the decision process for all of these decisions we were making in those hours, which was the Interagency Crisis Management Group on the video conference.

I was making or coordinating a lot of decisions on 9/11 and the days immediately after. And I would love to be able to tell you who did it, who brought this proposal to me, but I don't know. Since you pressed me, the two possibilities that are most likely are either the Department of State, or the White House Chief of Staff's Office. But I don't know.

ROEMER: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

the 12th or 15th, says richard clarke to the 911 commission.
there would be no 'wild rumour' about this evacuation flight, if it was on the 20th. by the 20th, all planes were back in the air, and this flight would not have been exceptional. i feel there's been a targeted disinfo campaign to muddy the date. i'll bet it was the 12th.

other reports say from the 14th to the 19th, FOUR of these chartered flights were allowed to leave, and the authorisation came directly from the whitehouse.

in other old news....

carlyle group, bin ladens, bushes

these oligarchs who rule the world do not even bother hiding their associations, anymore.
"guilt by association" is not a proven, however, there is motive, and means, and the actions of the parties indicate guilt.

[edit on 20-1-2008 by billybob]

here's a link to the names and dates of the flights(it's a pdf)

the 11th(!), the 13th had flights. these were private flights

Nothing miraculous about recovering DNA from body parts.........

you make good points and then post something like that...

nothing miraculous about recovering dna from body parts, no. recovering ALL dna from a crash site where not even one serial number had been recovered, which by the way set precedent, is a miracle for sure.

as a matter of fact...

The number of people believed to have been killed in the World Trade Center attack hovers around 2,780, three years after the attack. 1 2 No trace has been identified for about half the victims, despite the use of advanced DNA techniques to identify individuals. Six weeks after the attack only 425 people had been identified. 3 A year after the attack, only half of the victims had been identified. 19,906 remains were recovered from Ground Zero, 4,735 of which were identified. Up to 200 remains were linked to a single person. 4 Of the 1,401 people identified, 673 of the IDs were based on DNA alone. Only 293 intact bodies were found. Only twelve could be identified by sight.

Source

Speaking of money movement in this discussion, a great deal of money has been stated by the Bush administration to be moved through the United Arab Emirates by Al Qaida.

Where is Halliburton planting their interational headquarters when offshoring from the US? The United Arab Emirates. Who has a great deal of control and financial ties (still has stock options and deferred salary awarded him as an executive and board member) with Halliburton no bid ever contractor? Richard Cheney. CEOs are also board members of corporations. They tend to illegally double dip and get by with it so often.

www.cbsnews.com...

"CBS/AP) A report by the Congressional Research Service undermines Vice President Dick Cheney's denial of a continuing relationship with Halliburton Co., the energy company he once led, Sen. Frank Lautenberg said Thursday.

The report says a public official's unexercised stock options and deferred salary fall within the definition of "retained ties" to his former company."

www.nytimes.com...

www.google.com...

reply to post by billybob


Thank you, billybob, for the following from your external source of the 9/11 Commission report:

"Part A is where do we go in this difficult relationship? And part B is to further look at the difficulty here. You made a decision after 9/11 to, I think -- and I'd like to ask you more about this -- to allow a plane of Saudis to fly out of the country. And when most other planes were grounded, this plane flew from the United States back to Saudi Arabia. I'd like to know why you made that decision, who was on this plane, and if the FBI ever had the opportunity to interview those people.

I had the misfortune, in one of these discussions, of having someone strenously arguing against me over when the bin Laden family left, after attending the annual Carlyle Group meeting in DC held on 9/11/2001. The Bush family and a host of well-known others were also in attendance on 9/11/2001. You have just supported that the FBI was not interrogating the bin Laden family. Instead, they were providing them US taxpayer paid protection and escort back to Saudi Arabia.

That person stated he took his information of 9/20/2001 leave date from the 9/11/2001 Commission report. Obviously, from what you cited of the commission report, that was untrue as was the date. It specifically states planes were still grounded when the bin Laden family left. I had read one report stating they left on 9/11/2001, which would have been 9/12/2001 in Saudi Arabia. Or if they left after midnight (9/12/2001) of 9/11/2001, that would be 9/13/2001 in Saudia Arabia leave date from the US.

After all, they were having a monsterous gala event on 9/11/2001, and the bin Ladens surely would not have wanted to leave the party early. All considered earlier on 9/11/2001. W's favorite people - the mores and have mores - as cited of his own words on video at a Carlyle Group gala. It may have been the 9/11/2001 Carlyle Group gala it was said and video taped.

Source of video taped words - Michael Moore's "Farenheit 911". Since Michael Moore would never be allowed in any Carlyle Group meeting, it had to be taped covertly for Michael Moore, or purchased from someone else who was there at the time by Michael Moore. Of course, it could have been taped at any Carlyle Group gala. The fact is that W could care less about anyone else but the mores and have mores.

reply to post by cranium


Clad means wrap around no matter what cladding is wrapped around.

reply to post by OrionStars



I like the way you think. The Bush cabal and the Bin Laden family go so far back and they are so entangled, from Poppa Bush on down, the whole thing is a massive criminal enterprise so vast and outrageous that the perps feel untouchable. No wonder the White House made sure that after the party( celebrating the new NWO spectacular,9-11) the Bin Ladens got a luxurious and hasty departure from the USA. Wouldn't want to insult them by asking about brother Osama, would they now?

Or about the Saudi dominance of the ' hgihjackers ', patsies all. Or the State Dept.s insistence on allowing visa's for the ' hgihjackers ' despite their red flag status? On and on it goes. There is too much proof, that is the problem. It is far too easy to see the big picture but as long as the media keeps the pieces from coming together, the average Joe has no idea.

Criminality at the highest levels, operating openly and slapping the faces of the world. No entity prepared to admit the truth or take a stand. America in 2008.

reply to post by eyewitness86


The Bush and Walker families date back to fraternal brotherhood with the Hitler and Hess, as did the Zionist Stern Gang in collaborating blood brotherhood. The Stern Gang commited a large number of slaughtering heinous acts against the ordinary Palestinians and British "peacekeepers" in Palestine, at the behest Hitler and the SS.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
reply to post by OrionStars

 

Criminality at the highest levels, operating openly and slapping the faces of the world. No entity prepared to admit the truth or take a stand. America in 2008.

I fully appreciate the way you think as well. George Orwell and Aldous Huxley did not live long enough to see their prophecies come true in 11/2000. They definitely did come true. We are living in it and have been since the 1970s full force lead in giving us the Reagan administration. David Rockefeller intentionally place ethical Jimmy Carter in the White House and make him a very crippled duck.

It was all about oil then, and never stopped being about oil and absolute power and wealth, being amassed by a few elite people and no one else. Start with the Rockefeller and Rothschild families (just for starters) dating even further back for Zionist ideology so embraced by both.

I think you simply cant compare the fact that they found the astronauts from the Columbia disaster with what happened on 911, While i do not think it is impossible to find SOME body parts amongst the wreckage of the wtc and pentagon i find it completely unreasonable for anyone to claim that it is MORE likely to find flesh and bone over lets say..SOLID TITANIUM. It simply does not jive that most of the plane simply disappears due to "heat" yet they can find almost all passengers and crew and PAPER documents.

The shuttle exploded OUTWARDS from one or two points, the shuttle did not pass through a maze of steel and concrete and glass before it exploded. The "planes" that supposedly hit the towers were completely shredded by the internal structure of the building, and it just so happens that there were flesh and bones inside the structure that was obliterated.

Its like dropping a human being into a huge jetfuel filled blender, lighting the fuel and then turning it on. Then by some freak of physics finding an intact picture of his wife on the floor after its turned off. It simply does NOT make logical sense.

[edit on 20-1-2008 by Retikx]

And just why do you assume that there wasnt any titanium parts found?

Please point out where in my post i stated "No titanium parts were ever found" ... Classic example of posting before reading and comprehending and posting to defend an ego.

reply to post by OrionStars


[off topic]i would disagree about orwell. things were not that much different back then. (i've heard tell) orwell just switched 1948 to 1984, and wrote a 'fiction' novel about what he observed during word war II.[/off topic]

say, swampfox? you wanna cry uncle on the departure date? definitely on the 13th, there was a private chartered flight allowed, when no other private flights were allowed to fly. and the authorisztion came directly from the whitehouse, through the FBI, and onto arabia, land of most of the hijackers.

saudi hijackers from osama bin hussien's secret underground cave in iraqistan.


derka, derka, jihad.

Every time the conversation of the towers comes up it is amusing to see how many "experts" there are on the subject. Lets look at the facts before every one jumps on the conspiracy band wagon. There has never, in the history of this planet, been a demolition of a building as tall as the WTC. No one has anything to compare it to. No one knows what will happen to metal when it is exposed to that kind of crushing, because no one has demolished a building of that size. We can guess at the forces that were there but they are just guesses. In reality the planes only needed to weaken the structure enough for the upper section of the building to move probably just an inch. The inertia of the building will handle the rest from there.

Also as to the targets on the towers in the manuals. That is easy to explain. In 1993 terrorists already tried to blow up the towers and failed. Any one can figure it out that they are a potential target. So they put potential targets into training manuals. Seems logical to me.

reply to post by billybob


I know neither Orwell nor Huxley were prophets. Of course, it was going on then, as it always has throughout history, when greed overtakes humanitarianism. People forget history or refuse to learn from history, and, thus, are doomed to repeat it. Wise man was George Santayana.

reply to post by brianhks


That is because some of us have spent years studing the effects of what happened on 9/11/2001, and others have spent little to no time at all doing any study. Instead, some have been desperately clinging to the "official" reports, as if they are the "The Religious Gospel of George W. Bush".