Iraqi soldier “Caesar” killed three American soldiers as they kicked , beat a pregnant woman

Well, so far, after chatting with some friends in Iraq and reading what I can, I still haven't seen anything that said they were kicking a pregnant woman.


Chances are, Caesar was a terrorist and decided to shoot some US troops while he had the chance, then drummed up this story to inflame everyone against the US forces.

Umm....thats because he is one!

Look, there is no evidence at all that this story is true. Did you even read through the entire thread? Because if you had you would realize this story is bogus.
Go stick your head back into the sand.

[edit on 9-1-2008 by 4thDoctorWhoFan]

Awwwwwww Jeeeeeeez! I'm gonna just skip over all of the pointless bickering, finger-pointing and chest-thumping nationalism and just state the obvious - War is Hell and those that fight in wars are not exempt from diabolic behavior. We have seen this in every war ever fought perpetrated by BOTH sides of the conflict against innocent civilians and soldiers alike.

None of us here can confirm or deny the event as described because not a single one of us was there. But I believe in my heart that any lucid brain with a beating heart could agree with the following: If this story is in fact true, accurate and correct then the actions of this Iraqi soldier are both excuseable and commendable and he is justified as being recognized as a hero by his countrymen.

Blatant nationalism prevents people from looking through the fog to see the truth. If this event occured in your city - a group of thugs beating a pregnant woman - and they were of your nationality - would you not wish severe and irrepairable harm upon them or inflict it yourself if you were able? I believe that those who are both honest and sincere would agree that they would as beating a pregnant women, a child, the elderly, the infirmed is inexcusable under any circumstance!

How do you know that this whole story isn't a smoke screen for something else?

What makes you so sure that this was a true story?



Why would they do that? You are just being silly now.

I just talked to (via email) a friend of mine who is on the ground in that area. He is a K9 Handler who walks the streets sniffing for explosives, so he is right there in the midst of everything all the time.

He said there is absolutely no truth to this story. Because when a soldier does something wrong (even if its getting an article 15 for something stupid) he would have heard about it right away, because that type of news travels fast. Plus there would be all kinds of security concerns (riots, revenge, etc). He asked his SF (security forces) friend who is up in Mosul if it was true and the answer was no.

He said knows about the soldiers who were shot, but said he head there were no civilians around and the story of the soldiers doing something to a woman is false. I also asked him if he was aware of "Caesar" graffiti and he said he hasn't heard of any but would ask his friend, who is up in Mosul, next time he talks to him.

Anyways, that is the response I got when I asked about it from someone there.


***Disclaimer***
I am in no way stating "ah ha! This is proof!" I am just relaying a message that I received from someone on the ground in Iraq

[edit on 9-1-2008 by greeneyedleo]

reply to post by greeneyedleo

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Thanks for the info Greeneye.
Its always good to get the info straight from the horses mouth and bypass all the media garbage.

Just as I knew, it was all propaganda and just someone spewing trash.

[edit on 9-1-2008 by 4thDoctorWhoFan]

so now were gonna take your word for the happed there from someone you know who wasent even there ?

correct me if im wrong but that proves nothing

So you are saying the person who wrote the story from the OP was there and saw what happened? Didn't think so. What's the difference?
I would believe Greeneye way before you or especially the sources from the OP.

[edit on 9-1-2008 by 4thDoctorWhoFan]

reply to post by kangjia57

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Did you read any of the previous 18 pages before jumping in with your "obviously" objective views?

-there is no evidence that these soldiers kicked a pregnant woman, or that there even was a pregnant woman nearby.
-there is evidence that Caeser was an insurgent infiltrator, who was identified and apprehended by fellow Iraqis.
-have you not seen in the news where American soldiers have been charged in crimes in Iraq? You made the assertion that no Americans have been punished, and that's simply a lie.
-you have stereotyped Americans as going around wantonly killing for pleasure.

reply to post by kozmo

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The problem with your argument is that we're not debating a hypothetical scenario. None of us would approve of beating a pregnant woman, so that's not really the point. The point is, and this has nothing to do with Nationalism, but justice- Americans were killed, and there's no proof they did anything wrong. In our system, one is considered innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Until guilt has been established, I'm going to defend the honor of these men.

reply to post by zerbot565

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Take my word. Dont take my word. I really dont care. You will believe what you want to believe.

Im just relaying what one of my close friends who walks the streets in Iraq and who hears word of any and all crap that goes on. He talked to his friend who IS in Mosul. There are not even any rumours of something happening. In fact, they know of the incident (the shooting) but no rumour of the soldiers being involved in some assault on a woman has even surfaced. He WOULD hear of these rumours if there were some.


Again, take it or leave it. Im just relaying what I was told.

Reply to zerbot565

so now were gonna take your word for the happed there from someone you know who wasent even there ?

correct me if im wrong but that proves nothing

Exactly that proves nothing.

Looking at the track record of troop harassment its very likey the event was True.


Reply to COOL HAND

Why would they do that? You are just being silly now.

They would do that so that the US reputation doesn’t get tarnished.

reply to post by zerbot565

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"Pot- this is Kettle. Come in- over."

You seem perfectly willing to accept at face value any negative story, regardless of the veracity, and then have the gall to sit here and lecture anyone about sources of information? I'd trust someone who worked on the ground in that area, before some blogger whose credibility hasn't been established. Just my $.02

For those claiming that the US never punishes any of its own, I suggest a casual Google search.

Here's what a minute or two of browsing resulted in-

www.iraqupdates.com...

United States Army Pfc. Jesse Spielman, 23, was sentenced to 110 years in prison after a military jury convicted him for his role in an attack that occurred March 12, 2006, on an Iraqi family in the Mahmudiya area, south of Baghdad. In that attack, a 14-year-old girl, Abeer Qassim al-Janabi, was raped and murdered, and her parents and 7-year-old sister were shot to death with the family's own AK-47.

Spielman was convicted of rape, conspiracy to commit rape, housebreaking with intent to rape, and four counts of felony murder, even though military prosecutors alleged that Spielman served as a lookout, but didn't participate in the rape or murders.

In the same case, Sgt. Paul Cortez, 24, was sentenced to 90 years in prison, and Specialist James Barker was sentenced to 100 years in prison by an Army judge.

Another private, Stephen Green, who is accused of being the ringleader, will also be tried in federal court on rape and murder charges. He was dishonorably discharged from the Army due to "anti-social personality disorder" in May 2006, before the Army knew of the crime.

Now, now Leo...

You of all people should know that just because someone posts something doesn't make it so. I've seen you personally demand proof, disregard, or even admittedly mock people that do the same thing you are doing now. Especially if it pertains to the paranormal or conspiracy theories. Unless you can verify this claim with the same solid facts you and other debunkers routinely demand, I believe it too should be taken with a grain of salt.

The "truth" cannot be somehow different when certain people post it.

As far as this serious event that happened, I don't know what else to say other than I will just keep checking back to see if there are any updates. My comments on not jumping to conclusions about the story being false while even admitting that this could be propaganda spin have had me labeled unpatriotic and I'm accused of hating America more than the Devil himself.

We've gone from "it never happened!", to "okay it happened but not like they claim".

Two things I know do for sure right now are:

1. I still don't know exactly what happened and neither do any of you.
2. I don't even believe in the Devil, but hey I love the great Satan.

- Lee

reply to post by lee anoma

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Now now Lee.....

Did I once say I had proof? No!

I was just relaying a message I got from someone who is there...someone who reads local news....someone who talks to and mingles with the Iraqis every single day....someone who has friends in Mosul.

I sent him an email because I wanted to hear what he thought of this and what he was hearing on the streets from the Iraqis (not the media).

I was JUST RELAYING his message to me. Thats it. I was not saying "ah ha! I have proof!"



If someone else can provide proof that there is a pregnant Iraqi victim out there and some witnesses who saw this happening, please provide it. We are all still waiting for that.

[edit on 9-1-2008 by greeneyedleo]

That's exactly what I've been saying all along.

I just haven't disregarded the possibility that the Iraqi news may have it right nor ignored that it could also be propaganda. I think that is the best approach to take for me. You guys are free to believe whatever you choose without clear facts but just be aware you could end up wrong. Like I said, some didn't even believe the shootings took place at all at first.

The military has said "for reasons that are yet unknown..." this attack has happened.

Till then we're all just shooting around possibilities and speculation at each other.
Oh and accusations a-plenty!

reply to post by lee anoma

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My rule of thumb is that unless I'm shown hard, irrefutable evidence showing guilt, I'm gonna give my team the benefit of the doubt. If the facts come out, and I'm wrong, I'll admit it. I don't assign an equal amount of credibility to every piece of information that gets repeated, especially when I've seen first hand what the journalistic standards are in that region. The MSM has nothing on that group, with regards to getting it wrong.

that's exactly what you are expecting everyone here to do. You want everyone here to take the word of someone they don't know - who lives on the other side of the world - and who is blatently anti-American.

heres someother "incidents" that makes me belive the story is very true

www.youtube.com...

and heres some other pregant women that has gotten the bad end of the stick .

www.usatoday.com...

newsgroups.derkeiler.com...


and from here you can read about:

www.countercurrents.org...

Since the beginning of the U.S. Occupation, there has been a dramatic increase in sexual assaults and violations of women's rights by U.S. forces in Iraq. Many women have been taken hostages tortured, and sexually abused. The sexual abuse, rape and torture against Iraqi women is not confined only to Western media-loved Abu Ghraib prison, but is "happening all across Iraq", said Amal Kadhim Swadi, an Iraqi lawyers representing women detainees at Abu Ghraib. "Sexualized violence and abuse committed by U.S. troops goes far beyond a few isolated cases", she added.

and this

www.cnn.com...

and this

hrw.org...

this is your glory