Iraqi soldier “Caesar” killed three American soldiers as they kicked , beat a pregnant woman, page 19
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 13 times


reply posted on 9-1-2008 @ 04:12 AM by HowlrunnerIV
Only read one page and there was soo much to comment on...

Originally posted by manson_322
Originally posted by greeneyedleo
This is the only source? Some blog?

I find this highly questionable. Maybe Ceaser is lying.

Where are the English sources, as I cant read Arabic.


and i find the american deeds very questionable , maybe then Abu Ghraib was a lie too


No clue what was being said there, have you manson?

Questionable American deeds in Iraq have nothing to do with the veracity of this report. Questioning the truth of this report does not expunge US misdeeds. Nor does it excuse or whitewash them. It simply questions the truthfulness of this report. We've already seen that US reporters can lie about Iraq. We've seen that Lebanese photojournalists can lie about Lebanon. So what makes Lebanese reporters more reliable about Iraq?

What was the lie about Abu Ghraib? The US media put it all over the front page. They exposed it themselves.

use a english -arabic translator


No thanks, they inevitably create meaningless sentences because they cannot translate nuance or idiom.

Originally posted by manson_322
reply to post by GT100FV[/url]

You seem awfully anxious at the prospect that Americans may have been killed- thanks for your objectivity.


nah, waiting to see when americans learn to stop killing others


Uh huh. And the one-legged "martyr" from Jordan was doing what in Iraq? Weaving baskets on a kibbutz?

Originally posted by zerbot565
go go irak ,

i find it amusing ,... "friendly fire "

some more mature doings from your proud childerns work in iraq ,

get out and grow up ,

you not only kill/rape/humiliate your own , but you do it to others

shame on you, ....


What is this drivel in aid of?

Originally posted by zerbot565
i belive the story to be full true ,


Of course you do.

not only that but i see his actions as full right ,


Why are we not surprised? Did it ever occur to you that blasting away with an AK47 at a group clustered around a pregnant woman was a fast way to guarantee that woman (and her unborn child's) death? Ever used a Kalashnikov? Ever seen what they do? At close range?

I to would be quite pissed after what youve done to that part of the world , and seeing the " democratic "way of handling human life,
id do the same ,


Uh huh. Got any other Dirty Harry fantasies you'd like to get off your chest?

thouse articles where for mere entertainment for thouse that acturly care about the fact that your forces/goverment dont compute


Want to try all of that again, when you're coherent?

just leave and go home ,


You know, it was said so much better in Time magazine when they quoted Zero Mostel from the Producers: "What you mean is "oops!". Just say "oops" and get out!"

im not saying you re forces havent done something good there , that you might have , but the fact that youre not seposed to even be there is a real kicker in the head ,


Not supposed to be there?

I say it again ,


Of course you do.

id would do the same if i where in his shoes


I'm flip-flopping between two positions here. Either English is not your first language and that is why your spelling and grammar are atrocious. Or else you are somewhere under the age of 14, and that's a seriously charitable upper estimate.

Originally posted by Impreza
Whether or not this is true, I don't know. I will say, however, that most American soldiers in Iraq are jerks. I have heard time and time again from people that I know in Iraq that the soldiers are abusive, rude, and show no respect to anyone.


Yes, that's very possible. US soldiers have not had a great rap this last century when it comes to dealing with others. OTH, I'd probably get pretty short with the people I met if everyday I was wondering which one of them would be wearing the chest webbing with the RDX.

It's not very surprising though that someone who lives in the richest country in the world chose to go to Iraq and kill people instead of getting an education.


Oh, God. Who let the inmates out of the asylum?

Originally posted by forestlady
but this kind of thing happens in ALL wars. My ex had fought in the Vietnam war and told me that. Not saying it's OK, just that it does happen and not infrequently. Remember the atrocities during Vietnam that were committed by American soldiers? My Lai, etc.


Remember the concerted campaign of intimidation carried out by the VC? You know, the one where they executed village chiefs, policmen and schoolteachers who wouldn't co-operate? No? Better read up a little more then before painting only one side of the fence.

Originally posted by lee anoma
Considering stories like the rape and murder of an Iraqi girl and her ENTIRE family, I don't think kicking a pregnant woman is out of the realm of possibility for some of the people over in Iraq that continue to do those that don't behave like animals shame.


Point.

Stories such as these aren't usually rushed to the front page of all English speaking press.


Point.

It took a while for some of the more horrible stories to even come to light so again the argument that this isn't released in the English press is sort of useless.


Um. No, no point. If the "Arabic/Islamic" press is putting it out there, you don't think a westerner, or even an non A/I easterner isn't going to look into it?

This story could prove false, however I've read and seen worse, so I can't disregard this entirely.


Hey, hey, hey. A little sanity, finally.

Originally posted by WorldShadow
We now have three less ex military becoming potential cops back home and continuing there trained legacy in america on citizens with tasers and beatings by the man. Allah ackbar is there no mercy in this world.....


Oh. Spoke too soon! Looks like the inmates are back in charge.

Say, do you know what Allahu akhbar means? It means "God is greatest". Not "My God!". Just as ins'Allah means "God willing" or "as God wills it" and not "thank God!" or "by Christ!". Muslims do not throw God's name around as a source of emphasis. They do it to venerate him.

"Allahu akhbar is there no mercy in this world" does not mean "My God, is there no mercy in this world?"

No Muslim I have ever met, including my boarding school room-mate, has ever spoken like that.


reply posted on 9-1-2008 @ 04:21 AM by HowlrunnerIV
Originally posted by BlueRaja
reply to post by Xtrozero


And to quote myself here-
"So out of a country of 25 million, 5 million children are orphans? 5 million + are supposedly refugees, over 1 million have been killed by the US. That leaves 14 million. hmm. We're gonna run out of Iraqis before we finish with the America bashing."

With the amount of alleged attrocities that the US commits, according to some around here, there won't be anymore Iraqis left before too long.


Well, problem solved, really. Wouldn't you say?

I mean, no Iraqis = no terrorists in Iraq. Right?

So everybody wins. W wins his War on Terror, the Bush-bashers get "told you so" bragging rights until, like, forever and Cheney get security on his oilfields.

And if it's taken five years to get here then Hilary should be able to get the job finished by about the end of her first term. Looks like the long haul might not be so long after all...


reply posted on 9-1-2008 @ 05:08 AM by sadchild01
reply to post by Xtrozero


on the basis of this:
A key question is missing from this debate. How many Iraqis have died as a result of the U.S. invasion? The New York Times editorial is silent on this matter.

In a scientific study published last fall in the prestigious medical journal The Lancet, researchers from Johns Hopkins estimated that 650,000 Iraqis had died because of our government’s invasion of their country. The survey that produced that estimate was completed in July, 2006. That was a year ago.

Unfortunately, despite the calls of the Lancet authors for other studies, there has been no systematic effort to update these results.

Just Foreign Policy has attempted to update the Lancet estimate in the best way we know. We have extrapolated from the Lancet estimate, using the trend provided by the tally of Iraqi deaths reported in Western media compiled by Iraq Body Count. Our current estimate is that 974,000 Iraqis have died as a result of the U.S. invasion. The web counter and fuller explanation are here.

The Iraqi death toll resulting from the U.S. invasion is a key fact. We cannot make intelligent and moral choices about U.S. foreign policy while ignoring such a key fact. It has implications for our choices in Iraq, for our choices in dealing with Iran, for our choices about the size of the U.S. military (for why do our leaders want to expand the U.S. military, except to have the capacity to invade other countries?)

The exact toll will never be known. But this is no reason not to attempt to know what the best estimate is. We also don’t know many other key facts with certainty. We don’t know how many people live in the U.S. The census department creates an estimate, and this estimate is the basis of policy.

The Johns Hopkins researchers used the methods accepted all over the world to estimate deaths in the wake of war and natural disasters. The United Nations, for example, uses them to plan famine relief. Even the Bush administration relies on them when it accuses Sudan of genocide in Darfur.

www.commondreams.org...




reply posted on 9-1-2008 @ 05:13 AM by BlueRaja
reply to post by noangels


"All praise the lord that ATS is around to give the cowardly armchair racist warmongers the platform to vent their spleen.

I am getting tired of this anti america rubbish thrown round by the usual people here.We are not anti America we are anti you! "


I'd say it's pretty anti American to praise the deaths of American soldiers, especially in this case where there's no evidence that they did what was alleged to have been done. That's no better than Fred Phelps and his crowd, going around to funerals, saying their vile garbage. How exactly did you arrive at the fact that anyone was a cowardly armchair racist, by asking to see proof? I wonder if you'd say that to somebody's face if not for the anonymity you enjoy sitting at your computer.


reply posted on 9-1-2008 @ 05:18 AM by sadchild01
reply to post by HowlrunnerIV


i have decided to answer some more questions :

We've already seen that US reporters can lie about Iraq. We've seen that Lebanese photojournalists can lie about Lebanon. So what makes Lebanese reporters more reliable about Iraq?


because they are not part of imperialist american propaganda machine

What was the lie about Abu Ghraib? The US media put it all over the front page. They exposed it themselves.


they were already rumors about CIA prisions in east europe circulating in the media ...
when USa made WMD lies the arab editors belived it was propaganda and it(the opinion of arab editors) was true



Uh huh. And the one-legged "martyr" from Jordan was doing what in Iraq? Weaving baskets on a kibbutz?


maybe CIA false flag operations to destabilise iraq , so that it can show that US army is a hero , while in reality ,it is the most vicious dragon the world has ever seen , since the crusades and before the rome



Well, problem solved, really. Wouldn't you say?

I mean, no Iraqis = no terrorists in Iraq. Right?

So everybody wins. W wins his War on Terror, the Bush-bashers get "told you so" bragging rights until, like, forever and Cheney get security on his oilfields.

And if it's taken five years to get here then Hilary should be able to get the job finished by about the end of her first term. Looks like the long haul might not be so long after all...



the most disgusting and vile thing i ever read ... shows typical american genocidal imperialist mentality



[edit on 9-1-2008 by sadchild01]


reply posted on 9-1-2008 @ 05:19 AM by BlueRaja
reply to post by sadchild01


That is such a bogus report- conducting a subjective poll to try to arrive at number of dead. I already discussed this in another thread, but those stats trying to say that 300,000 Iraqis have been killed each year for the last 4 years is mind numbingly preposterous. How would somebody not notice that till now. 800 killed every day, would make some headlines.


reply posted on 9-1-2008 @ 05:21 AM by BlueRaja
reply to post by sadchild01


If your going to stereotype and insult Americans, could you at least spell check first. Your use of generalizations shows that you have zero objectivity.

[edit on 9-1-2008 by BlueRaja]


reply posted on 9-1-2008 @ 05:22 AM by sadchild01
reply to post by BlueRaja


what is the evidence that reports by such prestigous journals is bogus ...

as usual as i suspect more imperialist propagnada of american war machine



reply posted on 9-1-2008 @ 05:36 AM by HowlrunnerIV
Originally posted by sadchild01
reply to post by HowlrunnerIV


i have decided to answer some more questions :


Great.

We've already seen that US reporters can lie about Iraq. We've seen that Lebanese photojournalists can lie about Lebanon. So what makes Lebanese reporters more reliable about Iraq?


because they are not part of imperialist american propaganda machine


Oops. *bzzzt* Wrong answer. As I said, if Lebanese photojournalists will doctor photos to make Israel look worse then they are equally unreliable. Instead they are part of "imperialist caliphate propaganda machine"...

What was the lie about Abu Ghraib? The US media put it all over the front page. They exposed it themselves.


they were already rumors about CIA prisions in east europe circulating in the media ...


Nothing to do with abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison by National Guard MPs. Nor does it repudiate my point.

when USa made WMD lies the arab editors belived it was propaganda and it(the opinion of arab editors) was true


So what? Nothing to do with the fact that it was US media that broke the Abu Ghraib story to the world. Again, what was the lie about Abu Ghraib?


Uh huh. And the one-legged "martyr" from Jordan was doing what in Iraq? Weaving baskets on a kibbutz?


maybe CIA false flag operations to destabilise iraq , so that it can show that US army is a hero , while in reality ,it is the most vicious dragon the world has ever seen , since the crusades and before the rome


Uh huh. a) Usubstantiated crap and b) Don't see what the Crusades or Rome have to do with it. Genghis Khan was no choirboy. Hitler was far more destructive to the countries he conqured and occupied. Stalin was more destructive to his own populace. The Imperial Japanese Army under PM Hideki Tojo weren't handing out flowers thorugh NEAsia, the Pacific and SEAsia...So your "vicious dragon" is nothing more than a red herring pretending to be a frill-necked lizard


Well, problem solved, really. Wouldn't you say?

I mean, no Iraqis = no terrorists in Iraq. Right?

So everybody wins. W wins his War on Terror, the Bush-bashers get "told you so" bragging rights until, like, forever and Cheney get security on his oilfields.

And if it's taken five years to get here then Hilary should be able to get the job finished by about the end of her first term. Looks like the long haul might not be so long after all...


the most disgusting and vile thing i ever read ... shows typical american genocidal imperialist mentality



Get a grip. That's called sarcasm. I was aiming for wry, missed sardonic and bullseyed the "lowest form of wit".

It shows nothing typically American because a) I am not American and b) any native English speaker could see that not only was it clearly not serious, but it also assumes that a Democrat who is also a woman who has yet to win her party's nomination will be the next president.


reply posted on 9-1-2008 @ 05:37 AM by BlueRaja
reply to post by sadchild01


Because you simply can't report something as being fact, when the method you used to arrive at your result was based on bad methodology.
They asked about 1000-1500 Iraqis how many they thought had been killed, and then multiplied by the sample size. That is very weak. One- it's entirely subjective. Two- how do you know your not counting the same dead people more than once Three- unless they've counted bodies, and the ones they counted weren't the ones anybody else on that poll had also counted, then your numbers are gonna be off. Four- every other estimate is lower by a factor of 10 or more in some cases, and these were based on first hand accounting(i.e. body counts after an incident, dead taken to morgues/buried, relatives mentioning the dead, etc..) Five- the US military pays monetary reparations to the relatives of those killed, so there's incentive to fudge the numbers and make more money(or claim a relative that doesn't exist, or isn't your own). I could go on, but the sheer numbers would be impossible to ignore were it to be true. 300,000 KIA per year= 25,000 KIA per month(and this would have been occurring every month since we got there, to arrive at those numbers). It just doesn't add up. There's no imperialist propaganda involved. Just basic arithmetic and common sense.


reply posted on 9-1-2008 @ 05:47 AM by FlyersFan
Originally posted by zerbot565
i guess this here is bs also
human rights watch

I see nowhere that this site claims this story to be true. If it did, then it would be BS as well.

i guess the bbc is diss info aswell

They have admitted that they are biased and anti-American.
There have been threads about this admittion.
So yes, the BBC is untrustworthy.

Originally posted by sadchild01
... more imperialist propagnada of american war machine

... more ignorant anti-american propaganda and lies from the usual suspects.

Posted by noangel -

All praise the lord that ATS is around to give the cowardly armchair racist warmongers the platform to vent their spleen.

Actually - this has given the irrational and uninformed anti-americans the platform to vent their bigotry and JEALOUSY they have against America.

We are not anti America

Yes you are. And I don't care if you are tired of hearing us say it. It's true and as long as you and your ilk continue to blather lies .. like the subject of this thread ... then you're going to hear the truth. Grow up and deal with it.

are against this illegal war.

The war isn't 'illegal'. It was approved by our legal channels AND MOSTLY - no one outside this country (aka - the UN) has a right to tell us when we can or can not go to war and/or defend ourselves. Therefore - all of you who blather about an 'illegal war' are dead wrong.

It is so pathetic

Yes. People who are mired in idiotic anti-americanism ... it's very pathetic.

your GOD war with Islam.

Yeah .. right. Its a war against Islam. Oh gawd ... that's pathetically funny. Americans are dieing by the thousands to liberate ISLAMICS in IRAQ from Saddam; from his followers; from the insurgents ... and yet we are supposedly anti-Islamic. that's rich.

Its based on a pack of lies,and exported on fear mongering

so, no one should be afraid of what's reported here? riiiiiiiiight. Hey buddy .. radical islamic terrorism is very real. If you deny it .. then you are in denial itself.




[edit on 1/9/2008 by FlyersFan]


reply posted on 9-1-2008 @ 07:47 AM by zerbot565
its called bread crums in between the keys ,

and yes i have fired an ak47, even had basic training in heavy machine gun usage and even played around with an anti aircraft battery , you can make the rounds go either where you point or put on a blind fold and hope that you hit something but thats years ago,

at the moment many of my old team mates are in afganistan guarding poopy fields for our goverments , even had many friends serv in kosovo under u.n ,

anyways , if its a U.N sanctioned war , how come we dont see any u.n solders there then ???

i thought this occupationof iraq was sanctioned by the coalition ( u,k germany .u.s and what not ) and based on lies.

and for me beliving the story to be true is not anti american or anti u.s troops , far from it

but who knows mabye war is such a big part of your cultural heritage that you your self dont see right from wrong,

me stating that i would do just the same ment killing soldiers that beat pregnant women,

theres tonns of 1 and 0 out there on the net about the abuse of the iraqie ppl by the coalition forces , but it just happens to be that the u.s and britts have been marching throu the front pages of our news papers with acts of abuse and what not,


just have to point out that NON OF US have any evidence of anything relating this incident because its under investegation and we will probbobly not have anything about this untill summer or fall depending on who does the inquery.

can you please show me an arab or arabic media or point to the map where arabia is ?







[edit on 9-1-2008 by zerbot565]


reply posted on 9-1-2008 @ 08:26 AM by v01i0
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Originally posted by zerbot565
are against this illegal war.

The war isn't 'illegal'. It was approved by our legal channels AND MOSTLY - no one outside this country (aka - the UN) has a right to tell us when we can or can not go to war and/or defend ourselves. Therefore - all of you who blather about an 'illegal war' are dead wrong.


You're may be right about the war not being illegal, as US laws were quite probably followed. However, I'm pretty certain that war was unjustified one, because - as it has been shown - it was pakistani Sayeed Sheikh that funded Mohammad Atta, which of course was later found "little of significance" by 9/11 commission. Being realistic, US should've attacked Pakistan instead Iraq or Afghanistan, as long as hunting real terrorists behind 9/11 are considered.

Let's take a schoolyard examble to sink in my point: A guy was hit in the head from behind, now this guy turns and hits guy he has been lied of being responsible. This guy now hits the guy that didn't did anything to the first guy.

Thats what US did in this case, in my opinion and I think I'm not alone with this.

Originally posted by FlyersFanHey buddy .. radical islamic terrorism is very real. If you deny it .. then you are in denial itself.


And you of course know that US was creating these guys back in the 70's and 80's when they supported Mujahdeen - or what the hell it was - in their efforts against soviets that were back then invading Afghanistan?

[edit on 9-1-2008 by v01i0]


reply posted on 9-1-2008 @ 09:24 AM by COOL HAND
reply to post by kangjia57


Apparently you do not believe in a proportional response.

Anybody else here waiting to see some real proof that this event ever happened? I am still waiting to hear the condemnation from the UN.
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