Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Im sure the Soldiers in Iraq, are not aware fully of the " actual " premise of the war. Im sure thier families are sitting at home, in a daunting state of repression, asking why?

If these soldiers truely know the real reasons, the lot of them might not have gone to war.

Deep

Maybe they actually care about the future prospects of their country? Is that not possible or probable. Just like the medic likes to help people that are hurt because he feels that serving other people in need is a worthwhile thing to do.

What I cannot understand is the people that believe in nothing but attack everything all the time. They pass themselves off as some superior morally neutral people but in reality I know they are as selfish and self-centred as anyone.

Originally posted by THENEO

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Im sure the Soldiers in Iraq, are not aware fully of the " actual " premise of the war. Im sure thier families are sitting at home, in a daunting state of repression, asking why?

If these soldiers truely know the real reasons, the lot of them might not have gone to war.


Deep

Maybe they actually care about the future prospects of their country? Is that not possible or probable. Just like the medic likes to help people that are hurt because he feels that serving other people in need is a worthwhile thing to do.

What I cannot understand is the people that believe in nothing but attack everything all the time. They pass themselves off as some superior morally neutral people but in reality I know they are as selfish and self-centred as anyone.

***get the violins out*** (insert heart swelling music).

Wow! You should make propaganda movies Neo, they could've used you in Nazi Germany.
Most of us are too self-centred??? That's rich coming from you, Mr "if you don't agree with me then you're wrong". Just keep building up those points you use for posturing man, the ones that somehow make you feel superior. .
You don't get much more self-centred than that.
Did you not hear anything Skadi had to say? Did you not see that even Medic came around to her way of thinking? They can both testify to the fact that the government don't give a shit about the soldiers. To them they are just pawns to be used in their dirty money games.
Any soldier that has not realised that they are just hired guns since the Vietnam war deserve everything they get. Since that war they have been nothing more than tools of destruction and control for the government. If they still want to sign up and get their arses blown off for a government that doesn't give shit about them then they can be my guest. I'm sure all the families of these dead soldiers right now think this has all been worth it so that we got that tyrant, right? I'm sure they think "Boy we've been defended now, we are now safe, his death wasn't in vain" right?
If you actually believe this for a second you're even more deluded than I thought.

[Edited on 14-2-2004 by John Nada]

Originally posted by THENEO

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
THENEO

Whatever dude. I'm right. So whatever "score" you decided to create, you can score yourself for all I care.

Hey, I'm being fair, but obviously you really are "with us or against us" I suppose.

You can't justify war. Ever. But you should still do the job.

You can't justify war ever?

You need to grow up man and face reality.

Well, as usual, you are wrong. This "reality" you speak of is a fantasy world only in The Neo's mind. So no, your image of the "perfect world" is not reality.

So learn and face reality. Any questions?

Originally posted by John Nada

***get the violins out*** (insert heart swelling music).

Wow! You should make propaganda movies Neo, they could've used you in Nazi Germany.
Most of us are too self-centred??? That's rich coming from you, Mr "if you don't agree with me then you're wrong". Just keep building up those points you use for posturing man, the ones that somehow make you feel superior. .
You don't get much more self-centred than that.
Did you not hear anything Skadi had to say? Did you not see that even Medic came around to her way of thinking? They can both testify to the fact that the government don't give a shit about the soldiers. To them they are just pawns to be used in their dirty money games.
Any soldier that has not realised that they are just hired guns since the Vietnam war deserve everything they get. Since that war they have been nothing more than tools of destruction and control for the government. If they still want to sign up and get their arses blown off for a government that doesn't give shit about them then they can be my guest. I'm sure all the families of these dead soldiers right now think this has all been worth it so that we got that tyrant, right? I'm sure they think "Boy we've been defended now, we are now safe, his death wasn't in vain" right?
If you actually believe this for a second you're even more deluded than I thought.

[Edited on 14-2-2004 by John Nada]

The Neo says "Question Everything," but seems to not question anyhting. How strange is that? Then again, that's to be expected from someone who says ridiculous things to others such as "Obey God" and calls himself the "Right-Wing Gladiator."

sweatmonica?

sorry but you are the deluded one here (oh and don't hang around Nada because he is as popular as year old toffee around here),

I know why there was a war in Iraq and I fully supported it from beginning to end. You are the person with your friends trying to make this into a lie and a problem.

Tell me this:

what is it that you really want? the US to become a communist country?

Originally posted by THENEO
sweatmonica?

sorry but you are the deluded one here (oh and don't hang around Nada because he is as popular as year old toffee around here),

I know why there was a war in Iraq and I fully supported it from beginning to end. You are the person with your friends trying to make this into a lie and a problem.

Tell me this:

what is it that you really want? the US to become a communist country?

ooohhh that that was well informed.

Would you like to back up these assumptions about me? I know that you can't so because you're full of shit, so you'll probably use some smart arse comment about how do don't need to dignify with a response or some crap.
You also forgot to tell him that I'm a actually an ATS Staff Member secretly posing as a normal member.
Would you like to like to tell us how you came up with this assumption? Again I doubt you will.
Man you embarrass yourself more everyday, do you have to work at it or is it just a gift?

You may also like to tell us that if we are to think your are so "informed", how on Earth did you believe that Mars was closer to the Sun than Earth and was extremely hot?

Oooohhh, those scary communists again, would you care to actually bother backing ANY of this up?

Nada,

I made one mistake and for that it gives you carte blanche to destroy me as a human being? Such is the tactics of the left.

so I'm still waiting for you to prove to me that you are a conservative.

Originally posted by THENEO
Nada,

I made one mistake and for that it gives you carte blanche to destroy me as a human being? Such is the tactics of the left.

so I'm still waiting for you to prove to me that you are a conservative.

So you're not going to back anything up, that's what I thought. Thanks.

People are entitled to make mistakes, but when people are as arrogant as you and claim superiority over people by making others feel stupid by disagreeing with you, then you deserve to have those mistakes thrown in your face.
The fact that you've cried about it like a little baby here shows your true colours.

I don't recall saying I was a conservative???
That was the poorest attempt at dodging the real issue I've ever seen. Most Republicans are good at it, I think even they would be embarrassed by you.

Anyway I'm bored with you now. I know how important it is for you to get the last word as it's somehow a sign of victory for you, so you can post with the clear mind that I wont be responding.

Thanks for proving my points for me.

[Edited on 15-2-2004 by John Nada]

Nada,

I know who you really are now. You insistence on me proving to you the true basis of reality is a non-sensical request. You are responsible for understanding it not me John.

I told you the complete truth about everything, you still hide behind hidden objectives like most of your friends around here.

Why do you do that?

Requeim: I don't think it's dumb to join the military. I think it's dumb to join the military and expect to be "helping" and not "killing". Armies don't just spend time sandbagging people's houses when it floods, they are also sent to foreign countries on behalf of their government to fight and die. Ask your average Gulf War vet if he's ecstatic he joined.

The Americans who I know who are the most bitter and jaded are almost exclusively ex-military. It's a good thing to think you're laying your life down to save your country, it's quite another to learn that your life is nothing but cheap CURRENCY, and you are fighting for corporations and campaign contributors. Go Freedom! Go Kmart!

What do you think about the fact that if you or one of your comrades is killed in action while "defending your country in Iraq", it is not allowed for the US media to take pictures of your coffin draped in an American flag? Does that make you feel warm and fuzzy, because to me it totally shows the Bush Administration's total lack of respect for the people who have LOST THEIR LIVES for this fiasco.

GeniusSage: "where are you typing from btw? do you donate to charity? do you TRUELLY respect humanity? or are you just a retard sittin on his arse all day who only ever listens to the media? "

1- Work. 2- Yes, Amnesty International, HRW, Unicef and local charities for homeless. 3- I respect humanity, more specifically those who deserve that respect. 4- As far as I know, I'm unretarded. I don't only watch the media, I read it, I write for it as well, but I watch everything with a critical eye (what's said and what's not said).

TheNeo: "What we need here is daily reports from Iraq from a soldiers perspective. I'm tired of media spin and political wrangling about this subject. I would be nice to know what the guy on the street thinks."

I'm far more interested in what the average Iraqi guy on the street thinks. Which is exactly what the CPA should be worried about, but I guess they're not.


Anyone who tries to justify war has either never been in an actual war (or pitched battle) or is morally corrupt. War is not Hollywood, war is not TV, nobody in war is a star everyone is just an extra.

War is watching your squad mate get shot in the throat and trying to comfort him as he bleeds all over the place and drowns in his own blood.

War is accidentally blowing away a 12 year old kid because you think he has a gun when it's only a waterpistol.

War is reliving every terrible thing that you did in the heat of that moment for the REST of your life.

War is loss. Of life, of innocence, of humanity. People who say it's a neccessary thing are sick or stupid.

jako

Jakomo is certainly right about one thing: the most bitter are those who once were in the military. For we already saw up close and personal, in war and peacetime, what was REALLY up.

War is being thrown into some distant god forsaken #hole of a country, and having to watch your back constantly from friend and foe alike, looking at every native and wondering if he or she is gonna do something stupid.

BTW, Jakomo, if you do stuff for Amnesty international, then why the hell arent they attacking more forcefully the white slave trade in Israel? They totally pussied out on that, first condemning it, but then doing so quietly and sheepishly.

Every soldier that goes through war needs or wants to feel justified. Otherwise, it might not be so easy to live with. If those currently serving cling to Saddam's capture as their justification, that's their business. Personally, I think that's BS.

I wanted to blow Saddam's fat head off just like the next soldier in the Gulf war - b/c that's how they wired us. But all these years later, now knowing things I didn't know then, my desire to see Saddam go down has been tempered by the ugly truth and a new anger. The anger of knowing that the President I trusted lied to us and sent us into harm's way because of his own twisted agenda. Saddam was their puppet until they decided they were done with him. Then they sent us in to clean house. They tricked him into invading Kuwait for that very reason.

The Gulf war was justified in that we did wind up destroying a nuclear program far more advanced than we even knew of at the time. And Kuwait was restored to its former dictatorial glory.

The Bush administration lied through its teeth to get THIS war and there are NO WMD! Absolutely nothing to show except chaos, death and destruction.

NOTHING can justify that.

[Edited on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

as for the people that want us troops out of iraq, hell no!!!!
The US despite the world oppinion, went in anyway, so thay are guilty of rebuilding what they blow up.
and the attack on medic are just plane idiotic, you cant blame a soldier for the actions of his country, in fact its normal citizens could be held more responible, after all soldiers are bound by the chain of command, you arnt.
not saying that every time a newsstation is releasing somthing real, there isnt four guys flashing NSA badges in the morning.

but whats really bothering me is that the further isolation from the rest of the world and increasing political tensions by direagarding the, now even less powerfull UN and acting like international dictator, hasnt been mentioned.
not to mention the further increased hatred for the us in the arab nations.
actully the only ones that could possobly bennefit from this, if post war operations wont end up like afganistan, but they proboly will be,
is the iraq´s. But as someone said the suffering coused by saddam hussein, can be directly blamed on the US who placed him in power in the first place.


[Edited on 18-2-2004 by disturbence]

[Edited on 18-2-2004 by disturbence]