Economy Sinking Government Knows & Giving Bad Info

reply to post by LightinDarkness


Let me give an example of how I interpret your logic:

A man's car breaks down in a city he does not know. He gets out and starts walking. A few blocks away he is robbed and shot.

It is not the fault of the person who shot him though, because the man should have known not to walk down the street that everyone knows is gang-controlled territory. Furthermore, if the man had gone and gotten his car fixed before it broke down he never would have been in this predicament to start with.

Does that just about sum it up?

Oh and by the way, government stats showed that crime was down in that city.




[edit on 1/3/0808 by jackinthebox]

Well said that is a great analogy.

reply to post by jackinthebox


Wrong as always. Glad to see the calvary is still providing the emotional support you need though.

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Please read ABOUT ATS: Warnings for excessive quoting, and how to quote

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[edit on 4/1/08 by masqua]

I have laready posted the evidence regarding the correlation between crime and poverty in my thread Do Not Watch This Video... but if anyone would like to engage me in a serious discussion on that particular topic, I will oblige.

Government data is not entirely useless, as flawed as it may be. Trends can still be spotted, and allowances can be made for obvious irregularities when trying to discern a general picture.

Im afraid we are in bad times right now and there only gonna get worse. Are we gonna see another depression?

reply to post by jackinthebox


No, you have shown no correlation what so ever. And your continued promotion of your thread is funny. And I would again mention that even the evidence you claim to show some sort of correlation (even though it doesn't show it at all) is government data, which you have before agreed was all lies and now say its not. Inconsistent much?

I would also like to remind you that should you even be able to prove a correlation, correlation does not, and never will, equal causation. This is a basic rule of reality. Once you can show me a statistically significant relationship between crime rates and poverty, with an adjusted r squared of 0.70 (I'm being generous) or above, I will cede your point. Until then, you've got nothing.

Correlations between crime and poverty result in an Adjusted R squared of less than 0.15. Models which seek to be overly generous and add in a variety of multivariate controls never go beyond 0.45. For the statistically uninclined, this means that the majority of changes in crime rates are due to factors other than poverty.

[edit on 3-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]

reply to post by tac109


I think the ecomony is being deliberately run into the ground to prepare for war. Take away all of the people's resources to set the stage. It happened once already. The Great Depression marched us into war. It makes sense really. Borrow every buck you can from the country you're never gonna bother to pay back anyway, and then we can sue for reparations when we win! Win Win!

I think it is possible to overeducate oneself to the point where you begin speaking irrelevant babble trying to prove you're more important than everyone else. Then we have George Bush at the other end of the spectrum.

With people like this giving us information, no wonder everything gets lost in translation.

[edit on 1/4/0808 by jackinthebox]

How bout those fake job numbers today compliments of the government. It jumps from 4.5 unemployment to 5% in one month.....you tell me the government hasnt been lying. I truly think unemployment right now is at 8 to 10% right now but the government will never let that info out.

Oh and if our economy is soooo great why is Bush talking about a stimulus package? There really hasnt been NO negative data coming from the government so why the need for a stimulus package? Does Bush know something we dont?

reply to post by mybigunit


You mean this news, I found the link to the news story,

Bush Considering Economic Stimulus Package Amid Sliding Home Prices, Rising Oil Cost

In his end-of-the-year message, Bush said, "The underpinnings of our economy have proven strong, competitive, and resilient enough to overcome the challenges we face."

www.foxnews.com...

Mr. Bush do what Mr. Bush is good at, surround himself with yes men and his own hand picked financial advisers collect the reports that make his administration good and lie as usual to the American people. But hey itsn’t that what politicians are good at in time of an upcoming crisis.

Let look at this facts,

The euro rose to 1.4746 dollars at 2200 GMT after 1.4721 late Wednesday in New York.

The dollar was trading at 109.30 yen, down from 109.59 on Wednesday.

When the dollar gets down is less attractive to investors, making the dollar even more weaker than we want it to be.

In December only 40,000 jobs where created 173,000 in November.

Market analysts had forecast a figure of 45,000.

The total number of people collecting unemployment insurance rose for a fourth straight week, to the highest since October 2005, the report also showed.

www.bloomberg.com...

The problem with this is that our government do not take into consideration that this a nation of 300 million people 40 thousand jobs on service sector do not fed a family of 4 anymore.

This numbers do no reflect how many unemployed adults with family are out there, neither how many college students graduate and can not find a job, neither how many high school students no college bound are trying to find a job.

Do the math you do not need to be a mathematician to understand that 40 thousand jobs is nothing but lose change in a nation of 300 million people.

Now from that amount how many good skill jobs are outsourced to India and Pakistan over US college graduates?

The figures are a shame to what is call the land of opportunity .

Let look at exports even with a week dollar,

The Institute for Supply Management (ISM) said Wednesday that its index of US manufacturing activity dropped to 47.7 in December, the lowest level since April 2003 and down from 50.8 in November.

blogs.wsj.com...

We have a trade deficit, that means that our goods are not in demand in countries that already have surplus of goods.

Why buy American goods when their own goods are cheaper? Trade unfair practices and a government that is doing no a darn thing to fix it is the one at fault in our nation.

We are a nation of consumers that depend on credit and we have been made dependent on foreign goods thanks to the worst idea given to Americans Free trade.

Americans Falling Behind on Credit Card Payments at Alarming Rate

www.abovetopsecret.com...

No our future do not look good no matter what Mr. Bush said.

Reports can be manipulated but the truth will set this nation free

BTW I posted this on another thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 4-1-2008 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043


Yes thats what Im saying just little more news to confirm my economy is in the crapper scenerio. Thanks for the post.

reply to post by mybigunit


Oh this is too rich. You claim all government numbers are lies and then take selected indicators that have almost no relevance to the long term economy and think its evidence the sky is falling. Oh yeah, unemployment returning to normal levels from extremely low levels is certainly a sign of the end. I better not mention that unemployment goes up every year in January as retailers cut huge amounts of part time jobs at the end of December because the Christmas season is over. The depression is coming!

Also, nice try at manipulating the news stories. Do you WANT the service sector (the so called "low class" jobs) to grow quickly? If they did you'd tell us it still meant the sky is falling since obviously everyone was having to get a low class job.



You think the sky is falling, I'll prepare for a normal recession.

[edit on 4-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]

Jobs weak, unemployment soars
Employers add fewer to payrolls than forecast and jobless rate hits 5%, boosting expectations for aggressive Fed rate cut.

Yes even the service jobs are no doing very good

Still the hopeful economist gurus wants to keep the illusion of prosperity high as not to scare their gullible regular joes investors into stopping the money train to their coffers.

After all financial advisers depend on a steady money flow for survival.

money.cnn.com...

Where are the good skilled jobs going in America the land of opportunity but not for an American young college graduate, he has to compete with Pakistan and India for skill jobs.

Self-Serving Lies Destroyed the American Dream

Last June, a revealing marketing video from the law firm Cohen & Grigsby appeared on the Internet. The video demonstrated the law firm's techniques for getting around U.S. law governing work visas in order to enable corporate clients to replace their American employees with foreigners who work for less. The law firm's marketing manager, Lawrence Lebowitz, is upfront with interested clients: "Our goal is clearly not to find a qualified and interested U.S. worker."

.

www.economyincrisis.org...

Yes is nice to see how the claim of jobs is nothing but a deception for the American workers, no only our industries are outsourced but also our children future when it comes to skill workers in America.

The land of the opportunity indeed, if you happen to be from any country but America.

But is OK numbers do not lie when our own government is using them to tell American that we have jobs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is just that Americans are too lazy, right? or that is what many claim in this threads.



[edit on 4-1-2008 by marg6043]

EDIT: Delete this post please, mods.

[edit on 4-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]

reply to post by LightinDarkness


My dear LighingDarkenss my post are for everybody to see, not targeting you in particular, actually I do agree with some of the post you have made, no all but many, remember is difficult to agree with post that are more of opinion than links to facts.

But overall I do agree with some of what you posted.

reply to post by marg6043


My apologies marg - I am so used to getting personally attacked in this thread by two ATS posters that I forget a vast majority of ATSers don't do that. My apologies to you - I wasn't thinking when I replied earlier.

I would agree that all signs indicate and have indicated an on coming recession. What I don't agree with (and I know you haven't posted anything about this here - I don't think so at least) is that there is anything close to another "depression" coming our way.

Light no personal attacks from me but answer me this one thing...how do we go from 4.5% unemployment to 5% in one month? What will next month be 6%? No the government numbers are rising because its getting harder and harder to fool people into thinking that everything is so great....and for you to say the job numbers dont matter that jobs is the only thing keeping us going right now partner...when that goes Ill c u on the soup line.

reply to post by mybigunit


It happens every year - unemployment goes down in November, and up in December. Throughout November, retailers are hiring full time and part time employees for the holiday season. At the very end of December, these employees are let go. Thus - every year - unemployment goes down in November, and up in December. The media knows this, but the media is there to make news, not to be a voice of reason.

I would also point out that a 5% unemployment number is considered normal, while anything below that is considered unusually low. The government numbers are reflecting reality. I don't know what it will do next month - it will go down, or go up.

You have a basic misunderstanding of the term "economic depression," and have shown no evidence to indicate that we are anywhere near one. A economic depression has not occurred for over 80 years for good reason. It requires a massive economic shock or externality to occur and requires that the government have no ability to soften the blow.

The external stimulus required to send the US economy into a DEPRESSION (not a RECESSION) is mind blowing. Even September 11th couldn't do it. Any sort of event that would cause it would launch the world into an economic depression as well. It would have to be so severe that safeguards like the FDIC fail. The FDIC has had a perfect track records since its inception.

By the way, I think the FDIC is wrong and shouldn't be in place as it interferes with free market banking, but it exists, and it is a safe guard against any depression - if banks fail, the government will reimburse people up to $250,000 (for couples). If an event happens that launches the US into a depression, you might as well kill yourself, because it will be the "end of the world" as we know it.

Is a recession coming? Absolutely. Everyone has been predicting one for the past two years. A depression? Nope. Not even the biggest doomsday economists and trend line soothsayers are predicting one. And trust me, they WOULD LOVE TO because the media would gobble it up for the sensationalism.

[edit on 4-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]

I hope your right about the depression..I personally think we are in a recession now but we wont know till we are already in one so You and I will know in April or so where we stand. I didnt say we were in a depression at all I just think that if something doesnt change that is where we are going and that people should be ready. As far as the % wise Im not saying 5% is high it is good compared to the world but what I dont understand is in a one month period how we go jump a half percent. December is a hiring season correct because the stores hire for the holiday rush but lay off in January. The numbers that came out were for Dec. Something just doesnt make sense to me. It also doesnt make sense that we have great data that has been coming out for the past 6 months leaving out this most recent jobs report of course but yet bush comes out wanted to do a stimulus....if the data points to everything being ok then why would we need that? Does bush know something we dont or is he just going off the fears of everyone saying the sky is falling people like me for example?