FLIGHT 93 - The Biggest 911 Smoking Gun!

reply to post by beachnut

You did not even present where you have the evidence hidden on the FDR not being from 93 or any evidence to prove the FDR is not correct. Where is it?

I really wish people would bother to read the thread before posting on what has already been discussed.

If you are unaware of the anamolies regarding the data, I suggest you do some research.

Please feel free to post the proof that the FDR was that of Flight 93, and that it was in fact recovered in a field in Shanksville.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by beachnut

 

You did not even present where you have the evidence hidden on the FDR not being from 93 or any evidence to prove the FDR is not correct. Where is it?

I really wish people would bother to read the thread before posting on what has already been discussed.

If you are unaware of the anamolies regarding the data, I suggest you do some research.

Please feel free to post the proof that the FDR was that of Flight 93, and that it was in fact recovered in a field in Shanksville.

if we weren't aware of them we wouldn't be responding. We have also pointed out why your attempt to claim this proves the plane didn't exist are completely 100% WRONG.

Which leaves your unavoidable implication that everyone involved was lying or part of some plot. you have yet to be able to back that up with anything.

Originally posted by jackinthebox


I'm still waiting for you to show me 95% of any plane. Then we can move on to you proving it was in fact Flight 93.

The airlines have claimed this. Can you prove they are lying? Can you prove that all the people who helped collect those parts and the bodies of the victims were lying? Can you prove the people who did the DNA testing which verified the bodies on flight 93 were lying? Can you verify that the data from the FDR that was found AT the scene was wrong? Can you verify that someone planted an entire planes worth of evidence? Can you prove proof that all the calls were faked and done so well that the family members of the victims were convinced by their voices? Can you provide data that the RADAR operators were all lying? Can you prove that all the witnesses who saw the crash were lying? Can you prove the airplane in the area that helped spot the plane was lying?

We could go on with a list for days of the evidence that proves flight 93 crashes. you are claiming its all wrong. Please back up that implication. And have you actually called the airline and asked them to show you the debris personally? Have you asked them to create a web site and take pictures of all o it for you?


It's time you grow up and stop using these childish arguments.

reply to post by snoopy


Can you prove that Flight 93 crashed in Shanksville?

Can you prove that all the people who helped collect those parts and the bodies of the victims were lying?

Show me the witness testimonies. Show me the materials that were recovered that day.

Can you prove the people who did the DNA testing which verified the bodies on flight 93 were lying?

They didn't have to lie necessarily. I have seen no proof that biological material was recovered at the crash scene.

Can you verify that the data from the FDR that was found AT the scene was wrong?

If you are so sure of the FDR information, please explain the anomalies of the data.

Can you verify that someone planted an entire planes worth of evidence?

I have seen no such evidence, planted or otherwise.

Can you prove proof that all the calls were faked and done so well that the family members of the victims were convinced by their voices?

The calls could not have originated from the altitude recorded by the FDR. Furthermore, calls do not prove that an airliner crashed in Shanksville.

Can you provide data that the RADAR operators were all lying?

Show me the radar data. The operators did not have to be lieing anyway.

Can you prove that all the witnesses who saw the crash were lying?

You seem to be forgetting about all the witnesses who were there but did not see an airliner, but a small aircraft of some sort. You are also forgetting about all the witness statements and news reports, that there was nothing there to show that an airliner had in fact crashed at that location.

Can you prove the airplane in the area that helped spot the plane was lying?

Show me that the spotter properly identified the plane.

You guys can keep butting heads all day long or....you could agree to disagree and walk away. You both seem very passionate about your theories which I totally repect, but I can see this getting out of hand soon. You guys can certainly continue if you like but if you choose to do so, please keep it civil.

Preciate it.

Now you are acting like a 3 year old. If you can prove these people are all wrong then please go ahead. But if your only argument is simply not believing the mile long list of evidence, then you're hopeless. Don't expect to be taken seriously. Or better yet, try filing a lawsuit against the government an try using those arguments. You can't simply claim everyone is wrong because you don't believe it. You have to prove they are wrong.

reply to post by snoopy

You have to prove they are wrong.

I have to do no such thing. It was up to the official investigators to prove what happened. They have failed to do so. Which means that all alternate theories are open to discussion.

I do not see a plane in Shanksville. I am not going to believe a plane crashed there, just because I am told that one did. Simple as that. If you choose to believe what you are told by proven liars, that is up to you, but don't expect the rest of us to follow your example.

Is it possible that a plane did crash in Shanksville? Yes. Have I seen any such evidence to prove that? No.

Originally posted by snoopy





Now you are acting like a 3 year old. If you can prove these people are all wrong then please go ahead. But if your only argument is simply not believing the mile long list of evidence, then you're hopeless. Don't expect to be taken seriously. Or better yet, try filing a lawsuit against the government an try using those arguments. You can't simply claim everyone is wrong because you don't believe it. You have to prove they are wrong.

Most of that quote that was removed was MY current responses, not old ones so most of my post was just deleted. It wasn't a large quote, it was a mixture of quotes and responses to them.

Originally posted by jackinthebox


I have to do no such thing. It was up to the official investigators to prove what happened. They have failed to do so. Which means that all alternate theories are open to discussion.

I do not see a plane in Shanksville. I am not going to believe a plane crashed there, just because I am told that one did. Simple as that. If you choose to believe what you are told by proven liars, that is up to you, but don't expect the rest of us to follow your example.

Is it possible that a plane did crash in Shanksville? Yes. Have I seen any such evidence to prove that? No.

And they beyon any doubt proved their case. You are saying it's wrong. You need to prove YOUR claim. They backed up theri findings with real evidence. You simply dismiss it all.

You don't see a plane in shanksville, yet everyone else does. I don't care what you believe, no one cares what you believe. Just like you are now calling everyone liars. yet you provide no evidence of this. Please show this to be lies.


So according to you everyone involved is either wrong or lying. That easily adds up to 1000s of people. So please explain what happened. OK, let's assume there was no plane despite the wreckage being recovered, the bodies being recovered and identified, the pictures of the debris, the plane, the parts, the impact, the witnesses who saw it happen, the workers who cleaned it up, the technicians who did the lab tests, the peopel who talked to those on the plane, the back boxes, the RADAR and all its operators, the airlines who monitored the flights and have the remains, and so on and so on.

Tell us what happened then.

reply to post by snoopy

They backed up theri findings with real evidence. You simply dismiss it all.

Show me evidence that can stand up to scientific scrutiny.

You don't see a plane in shanksville, yet everyone else does.

Tell me, who are these "everyone" that you refer to?

I don't care what you believe, no one cares what you believe.

Then why are you still here?

Just like you are now calling everyone liars.

I never said any such thing.

So according to you everyone involved is either wrong or lying. That easily adds up to 1000s of people.

Again, I have made no such claim, and again you ignore the fact that many of the people involved have reported evidence contrary to the official version.

OK, let's assume there was no plane despite the wreckage being recovered...

Forget about the wreckage. You claim that 95% of the plane was recovered, but you cannot show it. How convenient.

...the bodies being recovered and identified...

I have seen no proof of bodies recovered at the crash scene. To the contrary in fact, many witness statements show that there were in fact no bodies at the crash scene.

...the pictures of the debris, the plane, the parts...

A picture of a piece of fuselage laying in the grass somewhere does not prove that it was a part of Flight 93, nor does it prove that the photo was taken in Shanksville.

...the impact...

Right here in this thread, it has been shown time and time again that the impact crater and damage path are incongruous with the FDR and the impact of a passenger airliner.

...the witnesses who saw it happen...

Show me witnesses who witnessed the impact. Prove to me that other witnesses who saw a different type of craft were lieing.

...the workers who cleaned it up...

You mean the workers who picked up a few pieces of unidentified metal scraps?

...the technicians who did the lab tests...

Show me proof that proper chain of custody procedures were followed.

...the peopel who talked to those on the plane...

This is proof of nothing. We have no way of knowing where these calls originated from. Even if they did in fact originate from Flight 93, this does not prove that the plane crashed in Shanksville.

All of this has already been covered extensively in this thread. Seriously, have you even bothered to read it before jumping in with your clearly biased rhetoric?

Please explain what happened? Since you reject ALL evidence of the crash. Please I have asked you several times. let';s see what your evidence is of what happened and how it holds up to your standards kid. Let's see how if holds up to a 3yr olds line of questioning such as you have presented.

So just a reminder to all the evidence which anyone can find details of on THIS forum by simply using search.

The remains of 95% of the plane have been recovered. Endless pictures of much of the debris from the plane found at the crash site. The black boxes found at the crash site. The engines found at the crash site. The crater left by the plane at the crash site. The bodies of the passengers on the plane found at the crash site. The belongings of the passengers from flight 93 found at the crash site. The FDR data from flight 93 found at the crash site whcih shows the path it took TO the crash site. The voice recorder from the flight which shows the events that happened on the plane right up until the impact which also goes right along with the FDR. The witnesses who saw the plane. The witnesses who saw the plane impact. The other planes in the area that saw the plane. The resecue workers who cleaned up the plane parts and the bodies. The coroner who identified many bodies. The DNA labs that tested the DNA to identify many of the victims. The firemen on the scene who put out some of the fires. The policemen at the scene. The 911 operators who took calls from the victims. The family members who took calls form the victims. The airlines who tracked the planes. The airlines who have the remains of the planes. The RADAR operators who tracked the planes. The air force pilots who saw the debris field. The plotters of 9/11 who admitted to the plot and their plans. Bin Laden who admitted to the plot. The confessions the hijackers left behind. The money trail the hijackers left behind. The hijackers being identified on video at the airports. The flight manifests, their tickets, etc. The FAA controllers, the ATC controllers. The captain of the plane trasmitting a mayday an the sounds of a struggle heard by the ATCs. The passengers on the plane reporting what was going on on the plane which corroborates everything else.

This is just the tip of the iceberg of things this kid is trying to dismiss an pretend don't exist. They have been laid out on this forum in thread after thread, yet he refuses to simply use the search function.

Also, one of the many articles discussing the 95% of the wreckage recovered:

archives.cnn.com...

HANKSVILLE, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- The FBI announced Monday that its investigation of the site where a hijacked jet slammed into a field here is complete and that 95 percent of the plane was recovered.

The federal investigation into the September 11 terrorist attacks continues.

Evidence-gathering was halted Saturday afternoon and the pieces of United Airlines Flight 93 that had been recovered were turned over Sunday to the airline, with the exception of the flight data recorder and the voice recorder, which are being held and analyzed by the FBI, according to FBI agent Bill Crowley.

Crowley said the biggest piece of the plane that was recovered was a 6-by-7-foot piece of the fuselage skin, including about four windows. The heaviest piece, Crowley said, was part of an engine fan, weighing about 1,000 pounds.

[edit on 4/6/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by snoopy

The remains of 95% of the plane have been recovered.

Prove it. Show me pictures of loads of material being hauled away from the field in Shanksville. Show me that the materials were positively identified to be those of Flight 93. An FBI statement to the MSM is not proof.

Endless pictures of much of the debris from the plane found at the crash site.

A few pitures of scrap metal in a field is hardly evidence of a crashed airliner.

The engines found at the crash site.

Even the official account shows that this statement is incorrect. I suggest you go back and check your facts on that one.

The crater left by the plane at the crash site.

The crater is not consistent with the impact of so large a plane. Furthermore, it is incongruos to the officially reported flight path, as I have already stated.

The bodies of the passengers on the plane found at the crash site. The belongings of the passengers from flight 93 found at the crash site.

Show me.

The witnesses who saw the plane. The witnesses who saw the plane impact.

You keep talking about all these witnesses, but have not linked to any sources to support your assertions. Furthermore, you have not provided any evidence that any such statements were more credible than those who saw a craft far different than an airliner.

The resecue workers who cleaned up the plane parts and the bodies. The coroner who identified many bodies.

The coroner himself stated that there were no bodies. So if you say there were, then show me proof.

The DNA labs that tested the DNA to identify many of the victims.

Show me a proper chain of custody report.

The firemen on the scene who put out some of the fires.

There were no fires, though there certainly should have been from all the fuel that would have been onboard.

So tell me, where did all the fuel go?

Yeah kid, like the FBI is going to come to your parents house, up to your bedroom and show you this info. Go look at the stuff from the trial. That alone is more than enough. And say, don't ya think Moussaoui's defense team woulda used those arguments if they ha any merit?

Who are you kidding here? Are you claiming that all these people are lying? yes or no.


And I would like to remind you that ALL of this stuff has been covered in great detail on this forum. It's only because you are too lazy to use the search function that you can't find the info. I am NOT going to repost redundant information and waste bandwidth on the forum. it's against forum policy. USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION.

[edit on 6-4-2008 by snoopy]

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by beachnut

 

You did not even present where you have the evidence hidden on the FDR not being from 93 or any evidence to prove the FDR is not correct. Where is it?

I really wish people would bother to read the thread before posting on what has already been discussed.

If you are unaware of the anamolies regarding the data, I suggest you do some research.

Please feel free to post the proof that the FDR was that of Flight 93, and that it was in fact recovered in a field in Shanksville.

Oh, they better collect a Pulitzer Prize. Seems you are wrong about the proof of problems with the FDR. It is perfect and proves 93 impacted in PA.

There are no anomalies in the FDR, that is false information. If you had real information there would be something like news about it, but it is false as you see, no one fell for the false information but a few people who want to believe in CTs about 9/11.

Ask a trained accident investigator and you will find out the stories were made up about the FDR. All the anomalies stories made up. Who ever made up the stories should have consulted an expert first.

[edit on 6-4-2008 by beachnut]

Ahem

We are going to ask one last time. Please stay ON topic and CEASE the personal sniping.

Thank you for your attention

reply to post by beachnut

There are no anomalies in the FDR, that is false information.

That is a possibility. Please show me how it is false, other than the fact that there were no reports of such in the controlled MSM.

reply to post by snoopy

Yeah kid, like the FBI is going to come to your parents house, up to your bedroom and show you this info.

You obviously have no idea who you are talking to. Your weak personal attacks will get you no closer to the truth.