NASA Admits to Storms and Dust Clouds on the Moon

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posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


Here's loads of info on the Apollo "Pressure Garment Assemblies" and their "Extravehicular Mobility Units."


From a Japanese "fansite":
ApolloManiacs | Apollo Space Suit

From a NASA pdf, which also covers shuttle suits:
Space Suit Evolution | From Custom Tailored To Off-The-Rack


But, according to this site, they just left the backpacks or EMUs, behind:

The space suits had to meet all the astronauts' life-support needs. Backpacks (left on the Moon) provided oxygen, temperature and humidity control, suit pressure, and power for their communications and data display systems.
Emphasis mine
Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum | APOLLO LUNAR SUIT


[edit on 9-12-2007 by goosdawg]




posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 03:22 PM
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any idea about the space suits on Apollo missions? I

To my knowledge, no definitive catalog has been compiled on all the artifacts left on the moon, but a group connected to Arizona State (I think) was looking to fund one for A11.

Everything non-essential to getting back to orbit was tossed, backpacks, overshoes, cameras, tools, all chucked out the door prior to departure to save fuel.

Suits however, stayed on as it would be quite cold when they opened the door for the last time. I think the outer helmets were tossed as well.

Check the Apollo Surface Journals entries for more details, look at the time frame in the hour of so before liftoff on each flight. Also check the ascent stage films from the first seconds of liftoff. (particularly A17 which tilted over a bit and photographed most of the landing area.) The backpacks are easily distinguished.



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 03:42 PM
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Assuming it reflects ice like ice on Mercury -- making that assumption.


Paul Spudis would certainly be the go-to guy on that topic, an I hope he is correct. Water ice is a lot easier to deal with if you want to process the stuff into rocket fuel and mixers for vodka/Tang™ spritzes. The radar data along with the radio inteferometry data confirm hydrogen, and thats what we can say for certain.

If it is water ice, we'll have to dig at least a half-meter or so to get it, using robots that can see in the dark of the cold traps, as the warmth of even a flashlight will begin cooking off the precious volatiles. You don't want to do that as Tang™ and vodka by themselves are pretty yucky. (don't ask me how I know that)



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by tep200377
Look at page 22 www.hq.nasa.gov...
Not exactly what you where looking for, but anyways ..


Yup thanks pretty good list of the litter we left behind
I will look it over tonight and see if it has what I am seeking

Thanks



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by SpaceMax
Everything non-essential to getting back to orbit was tossed, backpacks, overshoes, cameras, tools, all chucked out the door prior to departure to save fuel.

Suits however, stayed on as it would be quite cold when they opened the door for the last time. I think the outer helmets were tossed as well.


Well about that Tang and Vodka... I hear that damages brain cells... And how did NASA ever talk the Russians into Tang
They are usually smarter than that... (using pencils instead of million dollar space pens,,, jumper cables to fix the ISS
)

Perhaps you could answer another question... does the LEM have an airlock?




posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 04:14 PM
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does the LEM have an airlock?


Nope, just a flimsy aluminum door.

You don't believe everything you read on the internets now do you?



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Actually NO I was showing clouds long before John told me about the possibility of a "breathable atmosphere" and the comments all were there are no clouds... there are no dust storms...


I don't recall those conversations, but I wasn't around and didn't know you when you were not with John, so I just related any of this to the atmosphere discussion out of habit, lol.


I don't find it at all surprising to find you now stating "Oh yeah it makes sense... we have know about this effect for some time..."

To be quite frank... its really ridiculous... If you knew so much about this dust phenomena then please explain to me why you did not present this as a counter argument before?


Sorry, didn't mean to come across in the manner you obviously took this. The times you have brought this up before when I was involved you were trying to use it in a thread (or part of a thread, can't remember) to support the atmosphere argument on the moon. Since this known (albeit not fully understood) phenomenon in no way contributed to you and John's conclusions of a breathable atmosphere, I ignored (ha, ha...me ignore something) for obvious reasons. You brining it up before did not serve but to confuse and obfuscate, and I didn't want to bother. But I must apologize, here is a different thread about it, and if you would like to discuss this natural phenomenon without the context of supporting some of you and John's absurd conclusions then I say move it to space exploration or another forum, as you mentioned in another thread recently, what does this have to do with a conspiracy? I mean, your not using it to back up any wild claims, just want to discuss the science and technical nature of the phenomenon, right? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.



you guys are really something Where in this presentation on Levitating dust storms did I mention "breathable atmosphere"?
Thats why I put this in a separate thread... This thread is about CLOUDS


I apologize, I seem to have a knee jerk reaction when someone mention clouds to go straight to the breathable atmosphere subject, as I recell the whole clouds thing comoing up during multiple discuss of a breathable atmosphere. I am wrong to assume, or try to read between the lines.


... seems YOU on the other hand are not as smart as I gave you credit for...


Sorry to disappoint you, lol. I have been pretty sick the last couple of days, can I use that as an excuse? (and I do mean really sick) Also, please excuse any grammatical or spelling errors, head is a little cloudy (mmmmmm...morphine)


I have a feeling no matter what I present you would gain nothing... despite what you claim you know...


Ha, gotcha. Your wrong on that one. I am pretty stubborn, but I do keep an open mind. There have been several important things you have posted that I followed up that changed my outlook on two key discussions in this forum. Naturally, I would never give you credit or normally never acknowledge it aloud, as your head is probably to big to fit in the door already. I wonder, though, if there is anything the we post that you absorb as well?



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by SpaceMax
Nope, just a flimsy aluminum door.
You don't believe everything you read on the internets now do you?


What? You mean if its written its not truth? Dagnabbit Well hey it worked for those religious texts for 2000 years...

But you mentioned that they would get cold when they opened the door to toss out the trash... like PLSS, boots helmet and all that useless junque... so if they got cold one might wonder why they didn't suffer explosive decompression at the same time...

seeing as there is no airlock




posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
I say move it to space exploration or another forum, as you mentioned in another thread recently, what does this have to do with a conspiracy?


Ah but the conspiracy here is simply NASA with holding facts... no mention of sunset rays during Apollo... no mention of any kind of 'storms' electrostatic or otherwise... Until now...

See thats the thing its not as simple as each individual part of this, its the overall picture of lies, coverups and misdirections... possibly from a mistaken belief that any hint of this would make people panic and go screaming "The Aliens are here"...

And the Goose is about to be Christmas Dinner



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
Sorry to disappoint you, lol. I have been pretty sick the last couple of days, can I use that as an excuse? (and I do mean really sick) Also, please excuse any grammatical or spelling errors, head is a little cloudy (mmmmmm...morphine) post that you absorb as well?


Sure I'll cut ya some slack
But maybe its all those paint fumes
Had some friends in Canada had similar issues...

As to spelling etc ... heck no worries... I have posted reports from PhD's that have those in it. So if you cough on the Moon does it go all around and hit you from behind


[edit on 9-12-2007 by zorgon]



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon


Ah but the conspiracy here is simply NASA with holding facts... no mention of sunset rays during Apollo... no mention of any kind of 'storms' electrostatic or otherwise... Until now...

See thats the thing its not as simple as each individual part of this, its the overall picture of lies, coverups and misdirections


Well, there is no doubt that there is information from NASA that does not reach the public in a timely manner. However, you can take that as evidence of a nefarious cover up, total bureaucratic incompetence, a mixture of both, or whatever.

So, while I'm not going to argue lack of forthcoming information from NASA on some things (can't argue that, it's true) I'm also not going to shout cover up or conspiracy from the hills because of it either.

[edit on 9-12-2007 by IgnoreTheFacts]



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 06:00 PM
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Not only that but apollo missions coincided not only with storms but solar flaers that give out imense radiation busts from the sun.
Such event ocured betwen 1960 and 1974.
Today astonauts don't even go in orbit when such events are taking place.

April 17,1972 one of the bigest solar flares of the century and nasa was mooning the moon on the exact same date.
adsabs.harvard.edu...
Just as a reminder , Apollo 16 launched on 16 April 1972 at 17:54:00
They would of fried on the moon, with a radiation storm and of course they allegedly spent nearly 20 hours outside the LEM in
the searing sunlight during the solar flare and took about 250 degrees F.
of heat with out any problems at all.






[edit on 9-12-2007 by pepsi78]



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
There have been several important things you have posted that I followed up that changed my outlook on two key discussions in this forum.


Granted I will give you that...



Naturally, I would never give you credit or normally never acknowledge it aloud, as your head is probably to big to fit in the door already.


Hmmm Its not so bad if I take the crown off first... but your reasons are more likely to do with 'repercussions' than any sense of inflating my ego




I wonder, though, if there is anything the we post that you absorb as well?


Naturally, I would never give you credit or normally never acknowledge it aloud, as your head is probably to big to fit in the door already.



But seriously if you could prove to me that there are no secret space stations I would concede...

If you could prove to me there is atmosphere or clouds on the moon.. I would concede...

Problem is the Skeptic view generally believes "you cannot prove a negative" so they don't have to do anything to prove it LOL

Now take the other thread for a second... the one "Lear expertice needed!(or anyone else)" Lots of good info came out of that one seems I touched a few nerves there alright

Same in the Nasa Scientist thread 39,000 views 104 flags 56 stars in less than 6 hours AND a personal appearance by James Oberg

Yup touched some nerves there too...

Skeptics told us ... "Just wait the Chinese and Japanese ships wil prove you wrong... but I bet you will just say its all fake..."

Well look at the current snaffu with China's 'image' Within hours the fuss spread like wild fire and the Chinese hit the world press with a defense...

I didn't have to say a word just sit back and watch the "I told you so" unfold

ArMaP is a skeptic and has made many points I have agreed with. but he works hard to present his case... not just scream insults and indignation

I have said many times I don't have all the answers that is why I am here looking for them. But I have found enough evidence to convince me that main stream science doesn't have them either and is changing them faster than I can pull up my socks

We often get accused of "If you don't know then don't present it" Well 'scientists' do exactly the same thing and they write and submit papers to support it and get paid...
Here is a prime example of what I mean... about the Core of Neptune....

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
So, while I'm not going to argue lack of forthcoming information from NASA on some things (can't argue that, it's true) I'm also not going to shout cover up or conspiracy from the hills because of it either.


Well personally I give NASA more slack than John does... they answer to a higher boss... I am willing to bet they 'have their orders' and most in NASA don't know everything that is going on. I think it was a mistake to put NASA officially under the DoD... but I am sure they had their reasons

One of the things I do like about NASA is their current policy to 'play the game' along with us...

I mean that "Flyby Shooting of Venus" that was their idea not mine... The Martian "Blueberries" NASA knows as well as we do that the general populace responds better to an entertaining presentation and is more likely to remember more if it was fun... Thats why so few follow the links to boring hard to understand technical documents that are 400 pages long saying "The sky is Blue"

Moon Fountains to explain sunset rays ... yup I like this new approach...

Also the pulling of the fruit file on ISS a week after our presentation, then replacing it with a file on how they have better preservatives to keep fruit fresh... uh huh nice followup


Yes I KNOW they are watching
The Chinese media response to bloggers is proof that someone is paying attention to what the populace thinks

[edit on 9-12-2007 by zorgon]



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 06:25 PM
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so if they got cold one might wonder why they didn't suffer explosive decompression at the same time...


Check out some docs on the Apollo suits and note how they are put together. On A11 they boarded and hooked up the suits to the LMs dashboard life support. Peeled the outer layers, and tossed the unneeded stuff, locked the door, and then pressurized the cabin.

That was the first time anyone knew what the Moon smelled like...


(When Zorgon goes to the Moon, must remember to use extra, extra large font on his procedures checklist...)


[edit on 9-12-2007 by SpaceMax]



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon
Smells like gunpowder!!!! Must be all that blasting going on up there...





Are you sure it doesn't smell like "Teen Spirit"? Maybe that's where Curt Cobain is??? Let's get him back on Earth!!!!!



posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


Moon dusts has always been known about I thought. I mean, it's just crystalline structures that float like mist.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 09:06 PM
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Here\'s a link and a quote from interesting article where they out right state that NASA detected a very tin atmosphere on the Moon .

\"Instruments placed on the lunar surface by Apollo astronauts measured various properties of the Moon\'s atmosphere, but analysis of the data was difficult because the atmosphere\'s extreme thinness made contamination from Apollo-originated gases a significant factor. \"

www.britannica.com...

As found on Britannica\'s online encyclopedia



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by Max_TO
\"Instruments placed on the lunar surface by Apollo astronauts measured various properties of the Moon\'s atmosphere, but analysis of the data was difficult because the atmosphere\'s extreme thinness made contamination from Apollo-originated gases a significant factor. \"


The exhaust from the Apollo program LAMs (rocket engines emit gases, you know) increased the weight of the Lunar atmosphere by the whole 30%. Something for the ignorami to chew upon. Breathable atmosphere on the Moon my @55.



posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 09:55 PM
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I am sorry , I was not trying to imply anything other then , yes it is very possible that the moon does indeed poses a atmosphere . I don\'t want to imply that I would want to try and breath it .





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