CIA destroyed al-Qaida interrogation video

CIA destroyed al-Qaida interrogation video

www.msnbc.msn.com

The CIA videotaped the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah, the first major al-Qaida leader captured, but later destroyed the tapes, current and former intelligence officials tell NBC News.

The video, meant to instruct other agency personnel — as well as serve as an "internal check," included video of Zubaydah being subjected to waterboarding, the interrogation technique that simulates drowning and is the most controversial of the many techniques used on high-value al-Qaida detainees.

(visit the link for the full news article)

This doesn't sit right with me. I think the solution here is more zealous congressional oversight. I wrack my brain wondering why Congress won't stand up and hold these organizations to some cognizable standard sometimes.

www.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Good!
I'm glad they destroyed the video. It prevents some loser with an agenda from leaking the video which prevents the whiney crybabies with their 'faux' outrage from saying how bad America is and that the U.S. tortures prisoners. Give me a break! Nothing in the video is considered torture except for the few who even believe using harsh language is torture.

reply to post by 4thDoctorWhoFan


Good point. If we ever want to have any shot at beating terrorists you can't always play by the book... they surely don't. We give citizens and illegals more rights than any other country in the world. Do you think terrorists deserve a lawyer? So they can make a mockery of our system like OJ? Please.

The only thing that bothers me is that the CIA hasn't been disbanded... not for toturing terrorists but just general lack of use! Please. We have all the military branches, the NSA, DOHS, FBI... How many ego driven buerocracies do we need?

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
Good!
I'm glad they destroyed the video. It prevents some loser with an agenda from leaking the video which prevents the whiney crybabies with their 'faux' outrage from saying how bad America is and that the U.S. tortures prisoners. Give me a break! Nothing in the video is considered torture except for the few who even believe using harsh language is torture.

Wow…
What an uneducated point of view you have on things. I suggest going back and learning something called history. Waterboarding is torture, and the US government has prosecuted people who have used this method in the past. Waterboarding was used by the Spanish Inquisition, the Gestapo, and the Japanese. It can cause extended psychological and physical damage including death. So how do we justify using a method that we have made others serve prison time for as a war crime?

Here, my contribution to your future as a history major:

Waterboarding
Waterboarding is a torture technique that simulates drowning in a controlled environment. It consists of immobilizing an individual on his or her back, with the head inclined downward, and pouring water over the face to force the inhalation of water into the lungs. Waterboarding has been used to obtain information, coerce confessions, punish, and intimidate. In contrast to merely submerging the head, waterboarding elicits the gag reflex, and can make the subject believe death is imminent. Waterboarding's use as a method of torture or means to support interrogation is based on its ability to cause extreme mental distress while possibly creating no lasting physical damage to the subject. The psychological effects on victims of waterboarding can last long after the procedure. Although waterboarding in cases can leave no lasting physical damage, it carries the real risks of extreme pain, damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation, injuries as a result of struggling against restraints (including broken bones), and even death.

From the article about the Spanish Inquisition (1478-1834, with its most active period from 1480-1530), a form of torture similar to waterboarding called toca , along with garrucha (or strappado) and the most frequently used potro (or the rack), was used (though infrequently) during the trial portion of the Spanish Inquisition process. Quoting from the article: The toca, also called tortura del agua, consisted of introducing a cloth into the mouth of the victim, and forcing them to ingest water spilled from a jar so that they had the impression of drowning.

All countries that are signatory to the United Nations Convention Against Torture have agreed they are subjected to the explicit prohibition on torture under any condition, and as such there exists no legal exception under this treaty.

On January 21, 1968, during the Vietnam War, The Washington Post published a controversial photograph of three American soldiers waterboarding a North Vietnamese POW near Da Nang. The article described the practice as "fairly common." The photograph led to the soldier being courtmartialed by a U.S. military court two months later.

In 1947, the United States prosecuted a Japanese military officer, Yukio Asano, for carrying out a form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian during World War II. Yukio Asano received a sentence of 15 years of hard labor.

In its 2005 Country Reports on Human Rights Practices, the U.S. Department of State formally recognized "submersion of the head in water" as torture in its examination of Tunisia's poor human rights record,

reply to post by defcon5


You're wasting your time. The comment is so outrageously ignorant that even commenting is an utter waste of time. Unless someone has actually SEEN (and I'm going to take a wild-ass guess that the two commenters here have not) these tapes who can know why they were destroyed? It may very well have nothing to do with 'whiny human rights issues', or protecting the identities of interrogators.

No wonder this country is circling the drain.

reply to post by defcon5



in your history of 'waterboarding', one should add the practice of
"Dunking' accused Witches in pool or ponds.

see a wiki woodcut here, of dunking a woman strapped to chair in a river

en.wikipedia.org...




~~~~~~~~

i don't know if the excuse given is actually a just a cover story....

but the CIA states the video was destroyed ..."to protect the identities of the interrogators"

news.yahoo.com...


[edit on 7-12-2007 by St Udio]

so theres `outrage` when captured US personel are paraded on TV and hung drawn and quatered etc etc

but its fine for the US to do the same

once one side starts saying its ok to do such things then mr Poll Pot will reurn and do the same - remember he was condemned for water boarding (amoungst other things) by the usa.....


and you actually wonder why more and more people are fighting the Guerilla war in Iraq.

reply to post by St Udio


In fact, the entire quote there makes it more interesting:

"Were they ever to leak, they would permit identification of your CIA colleagues who had served in the program, exposing them and their families to retaliation from al Qaeda and its sympathizers."

So now, not only is Al Qaeda performing big nasties like 9/11, but they are also on solo missions, running around the US (and outside) popping off individual members of the CIA.

Interesting really, if you take the story at face value, you are also in a way subconsciously learning that Al Qaeda is capable of individual retaliation inside and outside of this country. The boogeyman now enters your home at night and will grab your children. :shk:

I find it interesting that the picture of Hayden with this story has him at the CFR giving this information. Was this indeed a CFR meeting, or was that a stock photo?

*Edit - Fixed quotes

[edit on 12/7/07 by niteboy82]

Originally posted by St Udio
in your history of 'waterboarding', one should add the practice of
"Dunking' accused Witches in pool or ponds.

I had thought about adding dunking, but its not exactly the same thing, so I intentionally erred on the side of caution.

Originally posted by St Udio
but the CIA states the video was destroyed ..."to protect the identities of the interrogators"

Personally I speculate that they want to get rid of any evidence that the next administration may feel runs afoul of the law before the next election. Video evidence obviously being the most damning.

reply to post by niteboy82



the preface of 'cover story' was trying to encompass all the tangents
of why Hayden revealed the tapes existance and then destruction...
at this particular moment in time

perhaps a "lets clean out skeletons before the election cycle primaries & debates... this acknowledgement would be old news by then &
lack the bite of a new revelation of destroying evidence during the heated up campaigns...

thanks,

Originally posted by defcon5
...
Wow…
Waterboarding was used by the Spanish Inquisition, the Gestapo, and the Japanese. It can cause extended psychological and physical damage including death.
...

Wow, your logic, or lack there of, really amazes me. I'm sick and tired of terrorist sympathizers like you always coming to the defense of these bastards.

This is Al Freakin' Quaida man!
Get it through that thick skull that they don't want to sing Kumbaya with you or anyone else.
The only thing they hate worse than Christians and Jews are athiests!
These people are like mosquitoes, what worth or purpose do they have being on this planet?
These people want nothing more than to blow themselves up and take as many folks as you and I with them.
If they are willing to die for their cause then it's about time we start accommodating them!
So do US all a big favor, put a plug on that bleeding heart, quit defending the likes of terrorists, murderers and child molestors and get to better know and love your fellow man whether you agree with their religion or not. I guarantee you they will love you back.

waterboarding is `ok` so long as its the USA doing it

www.state.gov...

thats the stae department - they condemn Tunisia for

The forms of torture and other abuse included: electric shock; submersion of the head in water; beatings with hands, sticks, and police batons; suspension, sometimes manacled, from cell doors and rods resulting in loss of consciousness; and cigarette burns. According to AI, police and prison officials used sexual assault and threats of sexual assault against the wives of Islamist prisoners to extract information, to intimidate, and to punish

all of the above has been stated as being used by forces associated with the usa - well `Do as i say not as i do` doesn`t work - look at Iraq today , there are more Guerilla fighters than in 2004.

and calling them Terrorists? poppycock! When the NVA was near defeat they went underground - and you had the VC. Same thing in iraq.

reply to post by Alxandro


Oh, don’t get me wrong I am certainly not anyone who sympathizes with their supposed plight or actions; however torture is not only wrong, but its illegal by international law that WE agreed to follow. You can guarantee that if nothing is said about this then it will expand to other realms of law enforcement, just as everything else in government does. Wrong is wrong, period. Torture is wrong, and illegal, period. The same government who is now using these methods has openly stated its wrong in the past, and has punished people for using it. Since when is ANY member of the United States of America above the law?

reply to post by Harlequin


Actually with regards to the NVA/VC- the VC were finished as a fighting force in '68, after the Tet Offensive. After that point it was the NVA that was the only significant force in operation against us.

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
Good!
I'm glad they destroyed the video. It prevents some loser with an agenda from leaking the video which prevents the whiney crybabies with their 'faux' outrage from saying how bad America is and that the U.S. tortures prisoners. Give me a break! Nothing in the video is considered torture except for the few who even believe using harsh language is torture.

Great! So you have no problem volunteering to let me waterboard you, right? After all, it's not really torture. No more uncomfortable than using harsh language, right?

So, when can I set up your waterboarding session? I think it would broadcast well on youtube.

reply to post by BlueRaja


thanks for the correction - they might have been finished but TET worked as planned and they rolled back the US forces , won the PR war and started the road to the end in vietnam

Why on earth would they admit to having destroyed the tapes?
They must realize that this would make people think the tapes had something to hide in them...
Why did they not just say there was no tapes?

To make them look badass?

reply to post by Harlequin


The Tet offensive was a PR victory only. The US forces destroyed the VC as a fighting force at this time. What it did do was cause the American public to lose the stomach to do what was necessary to win. We won every major battle fought, but lost back at home.

Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by Alxandro

 

Oh, don’t get me wrong I am certainly not anyone who sympathizes with their supposed plight or actions; ...

Ok, good.
So what would be a better solution?

I would like for this war to be over like eveyone else, but there is no way in hell you or anyone else can guarantee me that for every weapon we lay down, the enemy will do the same.