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Bible corrupts

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posted on Sep, 12 2007 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by etshrtslr
reply to post by Sparky63
 


I appreciate the information you provided. You also pointed out the problem I have with the bible. As soon you translate from Hebrew, Greek or Arabic the meaning and intent gets lost in the translation.



I understand your view on the this and continue to be concerned about this myself. However if one takes the time to look at the context and the way a particular word is used in other passages, it can usually become clear what the writer intended.

There are numerous sources available for Greek, Hebrew & Aramaic.
Vines Expository Dictionary, Greek & Hebrew Lexicons. It takes a lot of time, but for me it is worth the effort to find out for myself what thought the writer was intending to convey.

There have been scribal errors and spurious texts inserted in some Bible translations. I will not deny that. But scholarly research has identified & exposed these passages.




posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by whirlwind
 


Sorry to take so long to reply. I've been working different hours making it a bit difficult to be here as much as I'd like.

Let's answer some questions then:

Slavery as mentioned in the bible-
Exodus 21: God says if a male slave marries and has a family then all shall remain as slaves to the male's master.
Further in Exodus 21: God instructs men how to sell their daughers into slavery.
1 Timothy 6:1-2, Matthew 10:24, John 13:16 and Tijtus 2:9-10 mention slaves should honor their masters. Female slaves to be submissive and give satisfaction in every respect to the master.
Genesis 3:16 reads that the wife will be ruled by her husband relegating women to slave status.
In Matthew 8:5-13 Jesus heals a centurion's slave while praising the centurion for his faithfulness. Why didn't Jesus speak out against him for keeping slaves?
Peter directs slaves to obey and fear their masters without protest no matter how cruel they may be.
In Ephesians, Exodus and Proverbs God tells master how to punish their slaves. God says that if a master should kill a slave than he will be punished. If the severely injured slave survives a few days then the master is forgiven.
Colossians 4:1 directs masters to be kind to their slaves. Wait, a slave is just as much a slave to a kind master as a cruel master.
Killing others according to God-
Hosea 13:16. "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."
2nd Kings 2:23-24 desribes the mass murder of 42 children by God.
Joshua 6:21"Then they (the Israelites) utterly destroyed all in the city, both men and women, young and old, sheep and asses, with the edge of the sword."


What part of the creation story do you find opposed to science, except the part in evolution where they say we came from apes........sorry, didn't happen, nor is it proven.

I said nothing about evolution. I was merely stating that I do not agree with the creation story, which by the way has not been proven either.


In a following post you stated, Hitler had his church, the Japanese their faith, and in history most wars are sanctioned by competing religious authorities.

Sorry, that was not my post in the above quote.

Equinox99
To point out just a few examples of rape and murder:
From Numbers 31:7-18
After attacking the Midians- "Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves."
Zechariah 14:1-2
"Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city."



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 02:21 AM
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Originally posted by Sanity Lost
reply to post by whirlwind
 


Female slaves to be submissive and give satisfaction in every respect to the master.



Well, that is quite a quote isn't it!



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 06:59 AM
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reply to post by etshrtslr
 



reply to post by Sparky63

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I appreciate the information you provided. You also pointed out the problem I have with the bible. As soon you translate from Hebrew, Greek or Arabic the meaning and intent gets lost in the translation.

When you add to that the hundreds if not thousands of scribes over the centuries who either intentionally or unintentionally were making scribal errors or intentional changes to the bible from either copies or language translation over tens of centuries, who can honestly say the bible is entirely accurate or what sort of errors were made.

Given these facts how one can be certain exactly what the original intent and message was is beyond me.

If you doubt me I suggest you read "Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why" by Dr. Bart D. Ehrman

He currently serves as the chairman of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.


The farther from the original manuscripts you get the more chance for error (purposeful or not) you will find. To combat that it is best to study from a King James Version and use the Strong's Concordance for a clear understanding of the words the interpreters chose to use. The best way to study of course would be to read the manuscripts themselves if you have knowledge of Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic.

So....although translated works have the opportunity for error the oldest and best manuscripts of the Hebrew Bible do not. They contain, on every page, beside the Text, a number of lines of smaller writing called the Massorah. There is a Great Massorah and a Small Massorah.

They lock in the words used in the Text, a safegurad against tampering. For that reason the text found in the Dead Sea Scrolls exactly match the Text in use now. Father made certain His Word remained His Word.


........Whirlwind



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 07:10 AM
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reply to post by C.C.Benjamin
 




Female slaves to be submissive and give satisfaction in every respect to the master.

Well, that is quite a quote isn't it!


Yes it is but we are thinking in today's terms of "submissive and give satisfaction", not God's.

Take into consideration God's laws against rape, being with those other than your wife/husband, etc. If we understand that we know that giving satisfaction means be a good servant and fulfill the duties of a servant as given by the master. Those duties would not, or should not, include a sexual order.

.........Whirlwind



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 07:29 AM
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power corrupts,man corrupts yes,but the Bible?the Bible confuses because it is so open to interpretation.its very difficult to understand.however,i can confirm the existence of God as fact as ive had divine intervention.man did write the Bible but it was conveyed to him by God himself.i forget which chapter but one verse states to "fear God",thus i heed that command and try to be the best person i can be-thats all i can do.



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 09:23 AM
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The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it.
-Psm 68:11

John 1
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: The same was in the beginning with God.
3: All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4: In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5: And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6: There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7: The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8: He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9: That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10: He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11: He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

2 Timothy 3
16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

1 Corinthians 2
13: Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Romans 3
23: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 5
8: But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

John 3
16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Romans 10
13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

John 14
6: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 10
30: I and my Father are one.

1 John 5:7
7: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Revelation 22
19: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20: He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21: The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

"If we understood all the ways/things of God, a small god he would be."
-unknown







[edit on 13-9-2007 by Aeronautical7]

[edit on 13-9-2007 by Aeronautical7]



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 09:37 AM
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The post shows I've edited twice, but will not save edits. Is there are way to edit and save?

The only two choices I have are "edit post" & "preview post".

I copied and pasted over "Romans 6" which should be just after "Romans 3" seperated both verses beginning with "23."



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 09:51 AM
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reply to post by Sanity Lost
 


I understand, but the people that are going into exile were probably enemies of the Lord. People fall into greed and then mislead people astray, thus when the Lord decides to intervene, his people are spared and the evil doers are condemned.
The passage does not say it is okay for people to kill and rape. It shows Gods enemies being destroyed, but the good shall be spared, if not then they will have a place in heaven. The enemies might have been from Jeruselam, Gods chosen people, but if that is what it takes to bring them back to him, then that is what he must do.

I am sorry if you do not understand what I mean. When the bible was revised into English, they paraphrased it as best as they can. If they change even a single word, then the whole paragraph can be misleading.



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by Sanity Lost
 


Sorry to take so long to reply. I've been working different hours making it a bit difficult to be here as much as I'd like.

Let's answer some questions then:

Slavery as mentioned in the bible-
Exodus 21: God says if a male slave marries and has a family then all shall remain as slaves to the male's master.
Further in Exodus 21: God instructs men how to sell their daughers into slavery.


Thank you for your scriptures on slavery. First, my KJV doesn't show the word "slave" but uses servant. In Ex.21 the servant was a bond servant that sold himself for a certain period of time. God's law tells us that he was to be released at the seventh year. (21:2) It further states that if he came into the servitude with a wife that she would also "go out with him" but that same rule did not apply to one he took as a wife during the servitude. That woman had (or her family had) sold herself for a period of time and that time legally must be fulfilled.

All servants were to be released, no matter if they had completed their legal agreement or not, at the Jubilee. Those rules apply to the "Hebrew" servant but not to bond servants of heathen:

Lev.25:45. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
46.And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen forever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.

If a "heathen, stranger" sold themselves, or their family did, it appears that that bargain was for life. In that circumstance I would consider them a slave.


1 Timothy 6:1-2, Matthew 10:24, John 13:16 and Tijtus 2:9-10 mention slaves should honor their masters. Female slaves to be submissive and give satisfaction in every respect to the master.


Again, the word "slave" is rendered as servant in those scriptures in the KJV. Servants should honor their masters. If you pay someone for their service do you not expect them to honor your orders. When you go to work doesn't your boss, if you have one, expect you to fulfill the requirements for your job? The difference here would be that you could quit if you wished but they cannot.

Titus 2:9-10 - Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again; Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; they that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

If that is the scripture you meant when telling of female slaves being submissive I don't see it therein. Also, if there is one, God would not be condoning a female being misused, as sexually. That would go against all of His laws on the subject. Rather, it would mean that she, as well as a male servant, should fulfill the orders of their master. We, in this day and age, see that as meaning something other than what it is.


Genesis 3:16 reads that the wife will be ruled by her husband relegating women to slave status.


I, as a woman, don't read it like that. I'm married and don't believe my husand or I feel I'm a slave or servant. We work together, both halves completeing the whole. The husband is to be the head of the household but that doesn't make the wife a slave.


In Matthew 8:5-13 Jesus heals a centurion's slave while praising the centurion for his faithfulness. Why didn't Jesus speak out against him for keeping slaves?


Again, that was a servant, not a slave and it appears the centurion cared deeply for him. Perhaps the place that servant was at that time was much preferred over the situation he came from - hence the reason for becoming a servant.


Peter directs slaves to obey and fear their masters without protest no matter how cruel they may be.


1Peter 2:18. Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.
19.For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.


Peter is teaching how we should represent Christ as we teach. We may be reviled but must teach truth. We should be the servants of God and "put to silence the ignorance of foolish men" (2:15)


In Ephesians, Exodus and Proverbs God tells master how to punish their slaves. God says that if a master should kill a slave than he will be punished. If the severely injured slave survives a few days then the master is forgiven.


Ephesians tells us to be servants of Christ. Exodus is speaking about the servants of Pharoah. The only reference I found in Proverbs was 29:12 -
If a ruler hearken to lies, All his servants are wicked. I didn't see references to punishment in any of them. Please quote the scripture about the injured slave. Perhaps it means something other than it appears.



Hosea 13:16. "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."
2nd Kings 2:23-24 desribes the mass murder of 42 children by God.
Joshua 6:21"Then they (the Israelites) utterly destroyed all in the city, both men and women, young and old, sheep and asses, with the edge of the sword."


Yes, that is written. Please research why it happened. Do you believe a loving God would simply strike out and kill them for no reason. Killing children and babies, as well as animals sounds horrific but it happened, it was His decision and there was a reason.



I said nothing about evolution. I was merely stating that I do not agree with the creation story, which by the way has not been proven either.


Please be more explicit.


................Whirlwind



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 11:46 AM
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The interesting fact that people ened up as slves for a variety of reasons.
In Israelite society a person who became poor could sell himself or his children into slavery to care for his indebtedness. (Ex 21:7; Le 25:39, 47; 2Ki 4:1) One guilty of thievery but unable to make compensation was sold for the things he stole, evidently regaining his freedom at the time all claims against him were cared for.—Ex 22:3.
The Israelites had no jail system. They had to pay restitution or compensation if they were caught stealing. The price of restitution was usually more that the item stolen.

A Hebrew who sold himself into slavery to an alien resident, to a member of an alien resident’s family, or to a settler could be repurchased at any time, either by himself or by one having the right of repurchase. Such as a close relative. The redemption price was based on the number of years remaining until the Jubilee year or until the seventh year of servitude. (Le 25:47-52; De 15:12)

The Law protected slaves from brutalities. A slave was to be set at liberty if mistreatment by the master resulted in the loss of a tooth or an eye.



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 11:46 AM
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We today, living in the modern world find it extremely hard to understand how slavery could be tolerated, I know I for one am very uncomfortable with the whole idea.

But one interesting thought is that Isrealites coould not just go out and capture slaves willy nilly whenever they took a notion.

(Exodus 21:16) 16 “And one who kidnaps a man and who actually sells him or in whose hand he has been found is to be put to death without fail.

So it seems to me that the cases of slavery at least for the Israelites fall into theses catagories:
Slaves ...captives of War
Slaves ...Subjected to slavery to pay off debt as punishment for crimes
Slaves....Voluntary Servitude for a period of time to pay off debt not due to crime.



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 11:54 AM
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Another interesting point about Slavery in the First Century. Slavery was permitted under Roman law. Although the Romans were not held to the same standards regarding treatment of slaves as the Jews were, Jesus did not speak out about to condem it. Neither did the Apostles.

The first Century Christians had no interst in politics nor in reforming the governments they lived under. Their goal was simply to spread the teachings of Christ to all they came in contact with. Being a slave had no bearing on that.



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by whirlwind
 





First, my KJV doesn't show the word "slave" but uses servant


Well put Whirlwind. If it says "servant" in the KJV then it must be "servant", right? Why don't we look at where the KJV word came from:

The KJV also uses words such as bondmen, maids manservants in an effort to avoid using the word "slave". They are translating the Greek word doulos into "servant." That is incorrect. Diakonos in Greek means "a hired servant". Doulos means slave and nothing else.




TexIn Ex.21 the servant was a bond servant that sold himself for a certain period of time.


What rights as a human being did this bond servant have compared to his master? Is this not just another degree of slavery?




All servants were to be released, no matter if they had completed their legal agreement or not, at the Jubilee. Those rules apply to the "Hebrew" servant but not to bond servants of heathen:



I wouldn't want to be a servant/slave especially if my freedom was not promised until the "Jubilee". I believe that can be a wait of 50 years. That would be a mighty long wait for anyone in the bible.
So only Hebrew servants/slaves are allowed freedom at the Jubliee? Does this mean if you are not Hebrew then you are a sub-human?




Please quote the scripture about the injured slave. Perhaps it means something other than it appears.


From the Revised Standard version of the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) -- Exodus 21:20-21 "When a man strikes his slave, male or female, and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money." The word "money" has been translated some other versions at "property"




2nd Kings 2:23-24 desribes the mass murder of 42 children by God.


The children above could have better been translated from Hebrew to mean "young men". They basically insulted a prophet of God. Why would I want to promote killing of a group of people just because they feel they are different from me. In this case I believe the prophet was insulted due to his baldness.

Re: not agreeing with the creation story. First and foremost the only proof that things happened as stated in the bible is to agree word for word that it is based correctly on the original writings. There have been many things mistranslations over the years. Is God's day 24 hours or is it several billion years? How did he create light before creating the sun and stars? I could go on but my point is the universe is here to stay for sometime. Whether God or nature started things it's not big deal to me.

Thank you for your replies and questions.



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 08:12 AM
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the bible says man > woman
the bible says jew > nonjew

of course it's corrosive. it's racist, misogynistic, and glorifies genocide.



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 



the bible says man > woman
the bible says jew > nonjew

of course it's corrosive. it's racist, misogynistic, and glorifies


There are some things in life we must simply deal with. There is man, there is woman, there is Jew there is non-Jew. How one deals with those realities makes it racist or not, miogynistic or not. Our choice - the realities aren't our choice but how we deal with them is.

There is black and there is white. How you treat others of those colors is what makes it racist or not, not the fact that they are black or white. How you read the word Jew in those scriptures in John, believing them to be racist, is how your mind is interpreting it.

You are too intelligent to stay in that mind set. Look at it for what it is, for how it was written. Some of them are actually of the Jewish faith, others are simple residents of Judea and others are those that "say they are and are not".

................Whirlwind



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by whirlwind
There is black and there is white. How you treat others of those colors is what makes it racist or not, not the fact that they are black or white. How you read the word Jew in those scriptures in John, believing them to be racist, is how your mind is interpreting it.


no, your mind is warping around meanings to make it not seem racist.

however..i'm talking about the places where it says a jew is greater than a non-jew in the OT.



You are too intelligent to stay in that mind set. Look at it for what it is, for how it was written. Some of them are actually of the Jewish faith, others are simple residents of Judea and others are those that "say they are and are not".


it isn't a mindset, it's how the book was written.

anyway... you didn't address the misogyny point. the bible openly states that woman was created for man and thus is lesser than him.
it also says women should cover up...
and that men having long hair is an abomination.... which is odd, i tend to hear christians associate homosexuality with being an abomination.



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 




no, your mind is warping around meanings to make it not seem racist.


Even before I really studied it never seemed racist to me. I'm not warping the meaning at all. It is clear to me if for no other reason, than that Jesus, His family, His disciples and those He is healing and teaching are Jews and are the ones you say He is racist against. It won't fly.


however..i'm talking about the places where it says a jew is greater than a non-jew in the OT.


Please quote the scripture. I know God doesn't want His children to mix with others but there is a reason. On a personal level, if I saw my two children playing in a group and noticed that some of them were doing or saying despicable things that I didn't agree with you can rest assured, my children would be kept away from them and under strict orders to not mix.


anyway... you didn't address the misogyny point. the bible openly states that woman was created for man and thus is lesser than him.
it also says women should cover up...
and that men having long hair is an abomination.... which is odd, i tend to hear christians associate homosexuality with being an abomination.


There is a difference in men and women and each has a role in this life. That is one of the things we must deal with. I'm fine with being a woman, I enjoy this life but do not feel lesser than my husband.

The "women should cover up" is a different story. Some teach that it literally means women shouldn't cut their hair but it is much closer to what you sense about "abomination".

1 Corinthians 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

14.Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

15.But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
(the manuscripts say for a veil)

Because of the angels...What angels? The same angels in Gen. 6, the fallen angels that came to earth and mated with daughters of Adam. In the end times it will again be as the days of Noah.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38.For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark


"Marrying and giving in marriage", meaning, the fallen angels seducing women - and men! It was so bad God sent a flood and as it was in the beginning.....

The long hair a woman should have is symbolic of the truth of Christ. If she doesn't have that truth she will be seduced. As far as long hair and men... Christ Himself had long hair, as others of His day so we have to look deeper. It is instead, reference to homosexuality, the abomination.

In end times the fallen angels are coming back and it will be as the days of Noah, with both men and women being taken physically and spiritually if they don't know the truth - that Satan comes first.

.............Whirlwind



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 02:28 PM
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People are so confused and do not blame them because they are not getting the whole picture it seems.

First off the Old Testament is about preserving bloodlines and keeping the Adamite line pure from sins and Angel breeding corruption.

Why would a loving God kill the whole world apart from Noah?

Because Angels breeding and were corrupting man’s bloodline, call them Aliens of UFO abductions of today if you will as they are the same thing. And God got annoyed because future history of Jesus the next big saviour was being tampered with whist the Angels were trying to interbreed with humans so they too could survive and have salvation.

Then these events happened during Moses' times and King David.

Most of the point was keep the word of God promise and salvation lit, the rules and missions they had is of historical value and of rituals that only these people had to have because it was ceramany aswell.

Different covenants, for different times with different missions with different forms of society in which God had to dumb down a bit out of fairness to lift them back up.

Spiritually man had to evolve in stages and pass certain stages for their salvation to the point where the Adamite bloodline was preserved and Mary had a virgin birth to make up for Sin of man so that all that did happen and will happen and have a second chance of a heavenly justice system in which death through sin was defeated through pure flesh.


That is why history shows the Jews being wiped out by empires over history and not so far ago by the Nazi’s and now the Muslims and eventually everyone will get into it.

Anyway you get the picture and it is happening again and will do and so will the Angelic invasion.

Oh and slavery then was not like today as that was a primative infrastructure system, a way to survive, would you like to be alone 4000 years ago on earth or would it be better to be a slave as in work for someone? Remember no street lights and water like we have today.



[edit on 15-9-2007 by The time lord]



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by Sanity Lost
 





WW - First, my KJV doesn't show the word "slave" but uses servant

SL -
Well put Whirlwind. If it says "servant" in the KJV then it must be "servant", right? Why don't we look at where the KJV word came from:

The KJV also uses words such as bondmen, maids manservants in an effort to avoid using the word "slave". They are translating the Greek word doulos into "servant." That is incorrect. Diakonos in Greek means "a hired servant". Doulos means slave and nothing else.


I'm not arguing that there were no slaves but I do see a difference in a bond servant and slave. If I or my family were in dire circumstances one way out of that would be to sell my services for a period of time. Some people did that to pay for their boat fare to come to America. As I said before, being in the position of a servant may be vastly preferable to the circumstances they were in before that.

Jacob/Israel himself served seven years so Leah would be his wife. He wasn't a slave but he was a servant for that time.


What rights as a human being did this bond servant have compared to his master? Is this not just another degree of slavery?


I would certainly hate it but in a way, simply going to our job everyday is a form of that.


WW -
All servants were to be released, no matter if they had completed their legal agreement or not, at the Jubilee. Those rules apply to the "Hebrew" servant but not to bond servants of heathen:

SL -
I wouldn't want to be a servant/slave especially if my freedom was not promised until the "Jubilee". I believe that can be a wait of 50 years. That would be a mighty long wait for anyone in the bible.
So only Hebrew servants/slaves are allowed freedom at the Jubliee? Does this mean if you are not Hebrew then you are a sub-human?


They were to be released at the end of seven years, whether the debt was paid or not, even those that had only been in service for a year or so. The Jubilee reference is separate than that.

God doesn't believe any of His children are sub-human but you'll have to ask Him why the same law didn't apply to those that weren't Hebrew. As I said, that sounded like slavery to me, but it was what it was.


WW -
Please quote the scripture about the injured slave. Perhaps it means something other than it appears.

SL -
From the Revised Standard version of the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) -- Exodus 21:20-21 "When a man strikes his slave, male or female, and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money." The word "money" has been translated some other versions at "property"


Thank you for finding that. Well, it appears to me to be exactly what it says and certainly not easy to defend. Perhaps the question would be why was the slave being struck? God's other instructions were to treat the servant/slave fairly. Other than that.........another question for God.


2nd Kings 2:23-24 desribes the mass murder of 42 children by God.
The children above could have better been translated from Hebrew to mean "young men". They basically insulted a prophet of God. Why would I want to promote killing of a group of people just because they feel they are different from me. In this case I believe the prophet was insulted due to his baldness.


As you said, little children, as used there, is young men. For instance, when Abraham took Isaac to be sacrificed he was referred to as a child but he was 28 years old. Joseph was called a child when he was 39 and Rehoboam was 40.

Those young men were coming out of Beth-el, one of the seats of calf-worship. So.....were these an innocent bunch of men God decided to destroy or was something else at work there? I think it was more than being insulted on one's looks.



Re: not agreeing with the creation story. First and foremost the only proof that things happened as stated in the bible is to agree word for word that it is based correctly on the original writings. There have been many things mistranslations over the years. Is God's day 24 hours or is it several billion years? How did he create light before creating the sun and stars? I could go on but my point is the universe is here to stay for sometime. Whether God or nature started things it's not big deal to me.


I believe you can agree with creation, as stated, but there are deeper meanings than seen on the surface. As far as one day, Peter tells us that:

11Peter 3:8. But,beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

That same chapter of Peter tells us about an age before the one we are now in. That answers some of the questions you have about the creation.

Gen.1:3 And God said, "Let there be light:" and there was light"

The light is Christ :

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

5.And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkenss comprehended it not.


Christ was the light and Satan was the darkness. There was an age before our present one and in that one Satan rebelled causing God to destroy that time, that dispensation. The earth itself is billions of years old but not this age we are presently in, the one in which man is flesh.


................Whirlwind



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