Bible corrupts

reply to post by Sparky63


I did not overlook anything.

Show me the exceptions in the bible where it states its ok to be jealous and not be a sin.

As for opening ones mind I would suggest the same of you also. Blindly following some teachings or beliefs that are full of inaccuracies and contradictions without question is not exactly indicative of having an open mind.

Originally posted by Equinox99
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

madnessinmysoul can you provide me with some links to these genocides please? Do not think I am saying you are wrong, but I would like to research the Middia genocide for myself. When I try google it shows nothing.

Please do not think religion has caused the biggest slaughtery in history. Christians have died many times, by the hand Islam and Atheism. Look at the Assyrian/Armenian genocide in 20th century, or the slaughtery commited by Joseph Stalin and Mao Tse Tung, which might I add more then 100,000 million have died from.
You have to see the world for what it is, people cause crime, not religion, science or atheism.

[edit on 10-9-2007 by Equinox99]

muslims don't worship a different god they worship the same one in a different way

reply to post by coryblood

science doesn't say that we came from apes it says that we came from homonids some evolved into apes and some into humans. religious freaks alway bring that up and it pisses me off

I'm sorry that upset you. Other evolutionist have stated the same thing you did but the problem is that is not what is being taught.

The chart I am most familiar with, the one shown to school children, is the one that displays a monkey changing to a larger ape, and it changing to an ape that walks upright and that in turn changes eventually into modern man.

Evolution freaks always bring that up and it ticks me off. (sorry, I couldn't resist that one).


.........Whirlwind

Originally posted by whirlwind
reply to post by coryblood

 

science doesn't say that we came from apes it says that we came from homonids some evolved into apes and some into humans. religious freaks alway bring that up and it pisses me off

I'm sorry that upset you. Other evolutionist have stated the same thing you did but the problem is that is not what is being taught.

The chart I am most familiar with, the one shown to school children, is the one that displays a monkey changing to a larger ape, and it changing to an ape that walks upright and that in turn changes eventually into modern man.

Evolution freaks always bring that up and it ticks me off. (sorry, I couldn't resist that one).


.........Whirlwind

yeah they do teach it wrong. but not in my school
P.S. i wouldn't be able to resist either lol and i'm not saying all religious people are freaks

[edit on 12-9-2007 by coryblood]

the thing is that i have never seen a single thing that could have been God or anything like that so that's why i'm athiest

Originally posted by coryblood
science doesn't say that we came from apes it says that we came from homonids some evolved into apes and some into humans. religious freaks alway bring that up and it pisses me off

Just for the sake of argument, I would bet that homonid & an ape side by side. they would more than likely resemble each other more than a homonid & a human. Many went to school and were taught by teachers that we evolved from apes. I remember my science teacher had a chart that was called "From Ape to Man". I can understand why people keep referring it homonids as apes. Its just a manmade label after all.

reply to post by whirlwind


proto-apes...
none of the diagrams show modern animals in them...
and that's just a simplification... a real evolutionary model isn't actually a straight line, more like a tree with branches that natural selection prunes off

and stop using the word "evolutionist"
it's such a stupid word. we don't call astronomers "heliocentrists"

here's one thing about the bible that's corrosive... it explicitly states: god>man>woman
....outright misogyny.
it also a book that GLORIFIES genocide.

Originally posted by etshrtslr
reply to post by Sparky63

 

I did not overlook anything.

Show me the exceptions in the bible where it states its ok to be jealous and not be a sin.

Hebrew and Greek words translated “jealousy” in the Bible carry a wide range of meanings. They can have either a positive or a negative connotation, depending on how the words are used. For instance, the Hebrew word translated “jealousy” can mean “insistence on exclusive devotion; toleration of no rivalry; zeal; ardor; jealousy [righteous or sinful]; envying.” The corresponding Greek word has a similar meaning. These words can refer to a warped, distorted emotion toward a suspected rival or one believed to be enjoying an advantage. (Proverbs 14:30) They can also refer to a positive expression of a God-given quality—wanting to protect a loved one from harm.—2 Corinthians 11:2.

As regards a specific example; heres one.
Writing about his jealous feelings for fellow believers in the Corinthian congregation, Paul said: “I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy, for I personally promised you in marriage to one husband that I might present you as a chaste virgin to the Christ.” (2 Corinthians 11:2) So, too, our jealousy moves us to do all we can to protect the doctrinal, spiritual, and moral purity of all in the congregation.

I hope that helps.

Originally posted by etshrtslr

As for opening ones mind I would suggest the same of you also. Blindly following some teachings or beliefs that are full of inaccuracies and contradictions without question is not exactly indicative of having an open mind.

I didn't mean to offend you. We should all, myself included of course have an open mind and be able to consider other viewpoints and even corrections in out thinking process offered by others.

What would make you think that I am blindly following anything? Just because I offered some facts regarding your inaccurate view of the meaning of the word Jealous as it applies to God should not lead you to jump to conclusions about my ideas and beliefs.

After all I used one of definitions you provided. This could have been obtained by anyone who took a little time to research the meaning of the word.
Like I said. Sorry if I offended you my friend.

"
Equinox99

Well, those people running around with the crusades, and such they say they were doing it for religion right? Okay let us put that aside fr a second. In our world today, how many Christians do you see running around destroying people in the name of God or Jesus?
"

i have read through the thread and your statement above puzzles me.

you follow the bible and that in itself is ok since you have found a set of values to live your personal life by. a lot of ppl seem to be wandering through life lost. (good for you)

the problem i have with your stance is the fact that you follow the bible but you want to conveniently (put aside for a sec.) all atrocities committed "in the name of GOD" to push your ideals.

i am of the opinion(as long as you aren't hurting yourself or others) it's fine to follow a particular line of thought or ideals(religion/athiesm in whatever form) but you can't just (put aside for a sec.) history to stay in whatever comfort zone your beliefs give you.

history is our best teacher,those of us who learn from it will make the present and future a better place to live but there will always be a few in positions of power holding us back having convinced us that it is the way it should be.

"vengence is mine" sayeth the Lord. lol (that's one big job keeping track of all of us) there has to be a breaking point somewhere.

sometimes i think that the lord gave us a timetable to get our act together and did some things to try and guide us but finally gave up and let the experiment take it's course and here we are,on our own,makin our own rules(with our tendancy for self destruction as a race keeping pace with all of our advancements to the good)w

I am a religious person, and I will be the first to admit that religion is responsible for much of the bloodshed & misery mankind has faced down throught the years.

I believe also that God will hold all those who carry on wickedness in His name accountable. It is no wonder that so many today are disgusted with religion.

Ever notice how it is God, the Bible, Jesus that are disputed or doubted. I wonder if there are any threads doubting claims of followers of Confusius or Buddha or Mohammed..I'm sure they are few and far between..wonder why that is?

Originally posted by jbell1011
Now think, if a culture can make us believe something that is not true than what says other things can do the same thing.

The only force that can cause us to believe something that is not true is our own mind. It is a choice just as all things are.

The bible also forces people to be one in the same.

The bible doesn't force anyone to do or be anything. Once again, it is a choice for each of us to be what we are or 'conform to the norm.'

The bible itself is written by man. Man himself lies all the time.

Exactly. Therefore the cause is not in what he reads but what he wants to think.

I'm not saying just the Bible corrupts, because Islams are taught killing themselves in the name of God will send them to heaven. The Qu'ran never mentions that. The reason why I mention the Christian bible is simply because so many people in America follow it.

OR, rather, CLAIM to follow it. But how can they when most don't even know what it says, except for the convenient frequently-used-verses-for-self-justification?

Why would a God give man free will just to say that he wants everyone to be the same?

EXACTLY. GOD likes variety. Men fear isolation and rejection and therefore seek superficial uniformity.

If you push the issue far enough, you could have children here in America believing what anyone tells them and growing up living in a world of fear because their religion told them to.

But what is religion other than a tool used by man for control of others - no different, in many respects, than politics and other social institutions. It is man's own FEAR than maintains the level of fear instilled in the next generation.

The bible says:

It is NOT what GOES in a person that makes them corrupt but rather what comes OUT of their HEART.

It also says:

FEAR NOT
GOD IS LOVE
LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF

Greed corrupts. As does selfishness, envy, and the love of power. Corruption comes from choices made, attitudes, and outlook. As does purity.

FEAR = corruption
LOVE = purity

Originally posted by BlackProjects
Ever notice how it is God, the Bible, Jesus that are disputed or doubted. I wonder if there are any threads doubting claims of followers of Confusius or Buddha or Mohammed..I'm sure they are few and far between..wonder why that is?

i'd exclude confucius, as his teachings were secular..

however, there is at least 1 thread on buddhism and i've seen a few on islam..
but how many buddhists and muslims are on ATS?

i think it's just because there isn't a big enough audience for discussion... i doubt that anyone doubting christianity here doesn't doubt islam and buddhism.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

proto-apes...
none of the diagrams show modern animals in them...
and that's just a simplification... a real evolutionary model isn't actually a straight line, more like a tree with branches that natural selection prunes off

The chart I have seen shows modern animals and modern man. Whether the tree branches or is straight as a pine doesn't matter. Man did not evolve.

and stop using the word "evolutionist"
it's such a stupid word. we don't call astronomers "heliocentrists"

Madness, are you from New York??? How about adding a "please" to your "stop using the word evolutionist? Evolutionist may be a stupid word but is it not one they use themselves? The debates I've seen show evolutionist vs. creationist.

here's one thing about the bible that's corrosive... it explicitly states: god>man>woman
....outright misogyny.
it also a book that GLORIFIES genocide.

God doesn't hate women. There is a different role we are to play than a man but so what? I rather enjoy the role I have in this life. There are certain aspects of both man and woman that are theirs alone and can only be enjoyed by a man or by a woman. However, together as God meant them to be, they become one and fulfill each other. As a line went in My Big Fat Greek Wedding, when the mother was talking to her daughter...."Your father may be the head of the house but I can turn that head anyway I want it to go."

Look carefully at what you consider "genocide" and see what the reason for the battle was.


...........Whirlwind

reply to post by Sparky63

I am a religious person, and I will be the first to admit that religion is responsible for much of the bloodshed & misery mankind has faced down throught the years.

I believe also that God will hold all those who carry on wickedness in His name accountable. It is no wonder that so many today are disgusted with religion.

There is a scripture (I can't find it right now) that tells us essentially that judgment begins at the pulpit and then goes to our leaders. God will hold them accountable.


......Whirlwind

this argument is stupid. saying the ones that commit these crimes aren't religious is ridiculous, in fact, most of them tend to be more religious... they are, in fact, following the holy books of their choice.

What I meant was what they were doing is not religious. The bible never stated that we should go out and kill any infidels, instead of using wars to win their beliefs we should use our words. You saying they follow a holy book of their choice, to fight wars is a pretty stupid argument don't you think? I follow the bible, yet when I am with an Atheist friend or a Muslim friend I do not beat them up so they will turn Christian. I do not push my beliefs upon anyone, unless the topic is brought up and then I still do not push my beliefs upon them.

well... i hear about plenty of homosexuals beaten and killed because of a homophobia perpetuated by those religions

there are socioeconomic reasons for the lack of christian violence in the modern world, not religious ones. if one were to truly follow christianity to the letter of the holy book they'd found a country similar to afghanistan under the taliban... but with alcohol.

I have homosexual friends, so what does that make me a sinner? No, it does not. Killing them would be a sin, talking to them is NOT. Please show me where in the Bible did God say to kill homosexuals. This must have been an agenda pushed by someone during their teachings. I do not follow the mainstream Christianity, I tend to pray at home.

Similar to Afghanistan? Sure. If one were to fully follow our morals in society, then that would then make it similar to Afghanistan? The 10 commandments are morals, and if everyone followed them, then we would have a Utopia society. No killings, No adultery, and etc. Christian women get more freedom then Taliban women, our women do not need to wear veils, and they can go and come as they like.

So now let me ask you, does the bible corrupt? Your answer will be yes.
So now, how is it that there are people on the street running around stealing, selling drugs, fighting and in gangs? Are those people corrupted by the bible as well? Are politicians corrupted by the bible as well, because they tend to be very greedy, and that was written in the bible too?

You are basically generalizing a whole religion based on the people in the middle century. Well, we are in a new age, so first let me welcome you to the 21st century. Second, many people follow the bible and are not corrupted, many people who follow the bible are corrupted.
Many atheists are corrupted from greed, hate and etc. Many Atheists are very kind and gentle. So what does that tell you? Everywhere you look there are good/evil, you stating the bible corrupting is wrong, because I can say those Atheists who do wrong are corrupted by not following the bible.

God Bless.

reply to post by etshrtslr

I did not overlook anything.

Show me the exceptions in the bible where it states its ok to be jealous and not be a sin.

As for opening ones mind I would suggest the same of you also. Blindly following some teachings or beliefs that are full of inaccuracies and contradictions without question is not exactly indicative of having an open mind.

Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me;

Exodus 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, Whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

Nahum 1:2 God is jealous, and the Lord revengeth; the Lord revengeth, and is furious; the Lord will take vengeance on His adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for His enemies.

There are others but you get the picture...He Is A Jealous God and He acts upon that jealousy. Where do you find it is a "sin" to be jealous?

Please also provide the inaccuracies and contraditions and perhaps someone on these threads would be able to answer them. It doesn't seem very "open minded" to me to simply throw out accusations.


........Whirlwind

reply to post by etshrtslr



I just found your post in which you show where jealousy is a sin - I was reading from the last post up. Sorry.

Envy-Jealousy is one of the seven deadly sins and sited as a sin in Galatians 5:19-20

"19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions"

I can't answer it any better than Sparky 63 did. Apparently it comes down to the reason for an act. Murder is a sin but killing in certain circumstances is not. If you are jealous for a reason, as in breaking God's 1st Commandment of having another god before Him, it is not a sin but it would be a valid reason for jealousy. That is the reason He compares idolatry with adultery, so we understand His feelings.

We would know the pain and jealousy felt if our wife/husband loved another, wouldn't we?


.........Whirlwind

reply to post by Sparky63


I appreciate the information you provided. You also pointed out the problem I have with the bible. As soon you translate from Hebrew, Greek or Arabic the meaning and intent gets lost in the translation.

When you add to that the hundreds if not thousands of scribes over the centuries who either intentionally or unintentionally were making scribal errors or intentional changes to the bible from either copies or language translation over tens of centuries, who can honestly say the bible is entirely accurate or what sort of errors were made.

Given these facts how one can be certain exactly what the original intent and message was is beyond me.

If you doubt me I suggest you read "Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why" by Dr. Bart D. Ehrman

He currently serves as the chairman of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

www.amazon.com...

en.wikipedia.org...






[edit on 12-9-2007 by etshrtslr]