The argument over the existence of God

Everything in this world dosnt make sense if u look at it with a bigger perspective... i agree that things u dont see dosnt mean it dosnt exist and things that dosn't have any supporting evidence dosnt mean its not true but its just hard to believe in creatism... why did God create the dinosaurs before us ? why did god wipe them out ? to make space for us ? or does god even exist ? where did we truly originate from ? what was before the prehistoric cavemen and before that... and before the dinosaurs ? who was our great great great great great (go on for million times) grand father ? Adam ? so much stuff we dont understand.

Originally posted by Equinox99
So let me ask you this, If we don't fully understand life, how can you just say our belief is wrong?

You know, as I typed that I knew someone was going to leap on it. I knew it. So here is the exact rebuttal I thought of as I was typing it out, in the event I had to defend my statement:

I don't fully understand how a computer's processor works. I honestly don't. But I know quite a bit about them, and one thing I do know is that the calculations are performed by electrical gates and not extremely small math gremlins adept at high-speed number wizardry.

We do not fully understand how this universe even came to be. Some scientists say the big bang theory, but they still have no evidence to determine if it was the actual event that triggered us to be here.

Cosmic Background Radiation and the Doppler Shift. They are evidence.

How can the materials always be there? Something had to make it, in order for it to be here.

Why did something have to make it? Even if something did, which it most certainly did not, what made the thing that made the universe? And what made the thing that made that? And how about the thing that made the thing that made the thing that made the universe? Do you see the pitfall in the logic of a divine creator?

since i was a small kid,i used to ponder the phenomenon of infinity as it relates to time and space.how can something go on, and on,and on,without any end.in the same sense,i would ponder how something could have no beginning.how could something,anything,human or unhuman always have been here?i always came to the same conclusion.its impossible!no human can comprehend this phenomenon.therefore,there must be a supreme being who does comprehend this.thus,there has tobe a God,simple as that.

I think that Creationism and Evolution are both completely wrong! Fact is that none of us knows why were here at all. If it makes you go through life easier by think that you know the truth of why there is existence on this earth than so be it but truth is you don't know fully at all.

How can you even consider to comprehend something so vast as our universe and how it came to exist with life? If the universe was once the size of the smallest part of an atom and now it's ever expanding matter in all directions and we are supposed to think that we know why? LoL, I don't think so. We can argue over who's ridiculous idea is better but you all know deep down inside that you really have no damn idea. Excuses and man made written material on both sides is all we have. Everything we use in science was made by man, the bible was made by man. Why should anything made by man on either side explain the existence of the universe/life at all?

Originally posted by I See You
Everything we use in science was made by man, the bible was made by man. Why should anything made by man on either side explain the existence of the universe/life at all?

So you're trying to say that there is a equivalence between science and religion?

The same science that has eradicated small pox, harnessed electricity, and developed the computer you sit at?

You're 'avin a giraffe?

Why shouldn't anything created by man give an insight into the universe? Should we listen to donkeys instead? Or throw our hands up and say 'we are imperfect and therefore we can know nothing'?

Postmodernism is the new small-pox. Eradicating it will be such a positive.

We are a speck among billions and billions of other specks and you think that we know our universe because we can make a computer or heal disease? Cmon you know that we have no idea but we can pretend to know. Question is: Is it worth argueing about when neither really knows at all?

Originally posted by I See You
We are a speck among billions and billions of other specks and you think that we know our universe because we can make a computer or heal disease? Cmon you know that we have no idea but we can pretend to know. Question is: Is it worth argueing about when neither really knows at all?

I didn't say we did know the 'theory of everything'. I am suggesting that one of these concepts - science, religion - has more use in understanding the nature of the universe than the other.

If we were able to do the things I noted above. We must at least understand some things, no?

Or was it all a lucky guess?

Sure we can understand the things the we have done. It's all based on what we made and the formulas we used to make it. And yes one may be more understanding than the other but it's all still out in the blue.

What I'm saying is our minds cannot even come close to comprehending the universe, why it's there and why we are here. We cannot do it, it's out of our boundaries.

Originally posted by I See You
We are a speck among billions and billions of other specks and you think that we know our universe because we can make a computer or heal disease?

nobody said we know the whole damn thing, we just know a whole damn lot about it. sure, there is plenty more to figure out, probably more than we already know, but one side of the argument is science, which is far more informed than the other side, which just tends to make things up.

Cmon you know that we have no idea but we can pretend to know. Question is: Is it worth argueing about when neither really knows at all?

well, that's why i tend not to give into BS philosophical discussions on these issues. there is a point to arguing here, eradication of a mind virus

Originally posted by I See You
Sure we can understand the things the we have done. It's all based on what we made and the formulas we used to make it. And yes one may be more understanding than the other but it's all still out in the blue.

OK, good. We seem to be in the same ballpark now. So, essentially, science can provide good insights into the universe. Not perfect, but much more reliable and useful than what religion can provide.

What I'm saying is our minds cannot even come close to comprehending the universe, why it's there and why we are here. We cannot do it, it's out of our boundaries.

At this point in time, without doubt. But we have a tried and tested tool that can provide insight, science. If we work hard, be open and objective, let the evidence lead, we will continue to push back the boundaries of ignorance using this tool.

I doubt we'll ever explain the questions you want answered, in the way you want them answered. We can say this universe is a result of the big-bang, maybe we will eventually say it is a cyclic universe. We can say we are here because of the development of life over time.

But neither of these answer the question you want. Lets just go with 42 for now.

Hi peeps,

Am just going to add my two cents.

Now some of you might have already read what I have stated in other threads on this subject.

I am not here to argue so don’t bother replying with but this..... but that.....
To be blunt I don’t care what you believe. These are my views gleamed from my own research and knowledge (it is the truth as simple as that).

1. Evolution is only true with regards to survival (THAT IS IT).

2. We did not pop up randomly from some bloody random chemical reactions, who ever believes such non sense needs to open there eyes to the odds involved in such a random act (the odds of alien intelligence being responsible for our existence are far far far far far more likely).

3. Where are the creatures/fossils displaying different stages of growth as they has supposedly evolved (they do not exist; not now not ever).
Let me explain this for the not too bright people out there. According to evolution we or life forms have evolved from fish/bacteria or whatever garbage you choose to believe. So if we did develop eyes and arms fingers whatever..... where are these stages of growth shown/demonstrated i.e. half formed legs arms; the list goes on on on on.
There should be tons of these fossils/freaks but there is not. Ask yourself why; do some digging and for pity’s sake open your minds up to the greater possibilities in life.


I could throw more in but I am getting sick of the same arguments and please don’t ask me what I believe is the cause for life because you simply would not like my answer or believe it so why should I waste my breath.
This is the only post I am writing here so don’t bother trying to slander me. For those able to see the truth; they will.

Good Luck.

reply to post by WeAreOne




Kbai



(jokin...)

[edit on 8-9-2007 by melatonin]

this sort of discussion is interesting. I do ask, that we keep the insults to a minimum. That only stalls the discussion.

No one here honestly knows any better. I think that is something we can all agree on. To me (and this is my opinion) we were created. Now im dead tired of beating a horse in the head with my redundant questions that no one has been able to answer. Ive heard theorys, none of which I find satisfactory, or believeable. Ive veiwed sources, and they were not satisfactory to me. Because theres always that question (what came before that, and that...and the redundancy continues...) One thing we know, we humans exist. How? Now thats the question isnt it. Why are we so significant? (we are significant) Look around, who else do you see 'out there'? Even if there is other advanced life forms, how did they come of existance? From nothing, we became what we are today? Does that make sense? Somway, somehow, there is/was a purpose for our existance.

reply to post by Thousand

I don't fully understand how a computer's processor works. I honestly don't. But I know quite a bit about them, and one thing I do know is that the calculations are performed by electrical gates and not extremely small math gremlins adept at high-speed number wizardry.

Okay, but someone created the computer, the computer did not make itself.
So to your analogy, there must be a creator, other wise we couldn't have this computer that we live in today.
When did nothing start giving off radiation in the background? As for who or what created the creator, that is a part of life that we do not understand, now or maybe even ever. People created nano-technology, people created the vehicle, and us people created all these structures. So why is it very hard to grasp the idea that a higher being did not create us?

what made what... basically nothing makes sense in life... u cant just have a thing called a universe which never ends, u cant have a god which created everything (the universe, earth, humans) have no creator. SOOOO.......lets all clear out minds and refresh our memories... we might be in a video game... we are being controlled by people playing this game.

Originally posted by Equinox99
Okay, but someone created the computer, the computer did not make itself.
So to your analogy, there must be a creator, other wise we couldn't have this computer that we live in today.

You know what? I'm done. There's just no working with you people. You read just far enough into whatever is said to suit your own opinion, then stop. It's infuriating.

When did nothing start giving off radiation in the background?

Read this.

As for who or what created the creator, that is a part of life that we do not understand, now or maybe even ever.

Sorry, not a good enough answer. You can't sweep that one under a rug and pretend it's not there.

People created nano-technology, people created the vehicle, and us people created all these structures. So why is it very hard to grasp the idea that a higher being did not create us?

It's not hard to grasp. It's just illogical and flies in the face of years upon years of scientific research and hard evidence.

for everyone that believes in god..
can you prove:
the existence of a deity?
is that deity your deity?
how did you go about proving that said deity existed and that it is, in fact, your particular deity?


no? then stop trying to say it's the truth.

edit to add: i feel like a broken record...

[edit on 9/9/07 by madnessinmysoul]

God exists without a doubt ...He always was and always will be...
proof below ...those who have eyes to see will ask God to reveal
Himself to them ...He will if it is a sincere request ..others He will not
as He knows our hearts
www.wyattnewsletters.com...
www.wyattnewsletters.com...

Originally posted by Equinox99
Okay, but someone created the computer, the computer did not make itself.
So to your analogy, there must be a creator, other wise we couldn't have this computer that we live in today.

Wrong. You know that computers are made and designed, but you never saw something making a universe. The universe is everything, and has always existed.

reply to post by rich1411
we all believe in that which we cannot see.what can you not see that you believe exists ? wind/ atoms/ gravity/ magnetism/ time /inertia /electricity/ radiation /many gases/ laws that never change-ex thermodynamics. G-D choses to remain invisible for the time being which does not mean They do not exist.when moses asked the G-D being that spoke to him at the burning bush what is Your name the answer was I Exist =Self Exist= Eternal One.our present minds were made limited-what G-D was telling moses is that They have always been and always will be-no beginning and no end=Eternal. this is a different dimension than we live in beyond our comprehension for now.