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Why must the Masons keep it a secret?

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posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 05:19 PM
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Alright, first off, I hate to bring yet another question about masonry into this forum of endless questions about masonry, (that sentence was purposefully made repetitive), and I hope that this question is atleast somewhat original, but I apologise in advance if it's not.

I'm still fairly unclear on what, exactly, is the esoteric learning that is being guarded by Freemasons. I know many masons will argue that they have no "secret knowledge" or wisdom of sorts, but I would argue that those masons are either of the lesser degrees that have not yet reached a point in their craft to study this secret wisdom, or that they are just lying. I've heard the argument that the only secrets are their intitiations and signs of recognition or whatever, but in my research I've found this to be hard to believe. I know that I'm mostly ignorant when it comes to masonry, in no small part due to their secrecy, but I believe that the "fraternity" exists mainly to provide men of like morals and like beliefs a medium through which to learn certain esoteric wisdom about...something. This could be wrong, but in my research and in my own self-debate, I've come to the conclusion that this is the purpose of Freemasonry.

So my question is, (assuming that this is, in fact, the purpose of Freemasonry), why do they feel as if they have some kind of ownership of this esoteric knowledge? Why do they feel that people outside the craft are somehow not worthy of this knowledge? I'm of the philosophy that all knowledge and wisdom that is right and good, is meant to be shared with as many people as possible. Guarding truth and keeping it amongst yourself or your fraternity is a sin, in my opinion. Why do they feel they must keep it secret?




posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 05:35 PM
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Here we go again


Originally posted by an3rkist
I'm still fairly unclear on what, exactly, is the esoteric learning that is being guarded by Freemasons. I know many masons will argue that they have no "secret knowledge" or wisdom of sorts, but I would argue that those masons are either of the lesser degrees that have not yet reached a point in their craft to study this secret wisdom, or that they are just lying.


May I ask, do you know any Masons personally? I do, I'm not a Mason btw. Nor have I petitioned. How have you determined that there are levels to Masonry that excludes members of their own fraternity but YOU, not a Mason have discovered this truth? Are you saying that they are less aware of what's going on?


I've heard the argument that the only secrets are their intitiations and signs of recognition or whatever,


This is my understanding as well.


but in my research I've found this to be hard to believe. I know that I'm mostly ignorant when it comes to masonry, in no small part due to their secrecy,


That's a pretty telling statement but you are still saying you have these preconceptions.


but I believe that the "fraternity" exists mainly to provide men of like morals and like beliefs a medium through which to learn certain esoteric wisdom about...something. This could be wrong, but in my research and in my own self-debate, I've come to the conclusion that this is the purpose of Freemasonry.


Can't argue with that. That is EXACTLY how I see it.


So my question is, (assuming that this is, in fact, the purpose of Freemasonry), why do they feel as if they have some kind of ownership of this esoteric knowledge? Why do they feel that people outside the craft are somehow not worthy of this knowledge?


The knowledge you speak of is not kept to non-Masons. They are quite free with it, just not the modes of recognition. You can see it in this forum. Terms like, "From my mouth to your ear." ML will be able to explain that one better than I but I get the point.


I'm of the philosophy that all knowledge and wisdom that is right and good, is meant to be shared with as many people as possible. Guarding truth and keeping it amongst yourself or your fraternity is a sin, in my opinion. Why do they feel they must keep it secret?


From reading this forum, the keeping of the modes of recognition is a tradition that dates back to the times when Masonry was under attack from the Church, again ML can correct me. He's well versed in this matter, I'm but a reader. What's wrong with keeping tradition? Many people do it, not just the Masons.



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 05:58 PM
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I think it has something to do with paleocontact and holding man back for his own good, concealing Atlantis, lost esoteric knowledge, etc. because if all this stuff was open domain, man would most likely destroy himself.

Too lazy to really go in depth here, but I think the highly probable link between masons and the pyramids and stonehenge speaks volumes.



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Here we go again


*sigh* I was hoping I was the only one who felt that this ongoing debate over masonry was getting a little tiring. However, no matter how tiring it gets, my quest for truth and curiousity of things outside of my current unerstanding will never be too exhausted to not ask questions. As Ms. Frizzle from one of my favorite shows "The Magic Schoolbus" once said, "Keep asking questions, and you'll keep getting answers!" Unfortunately, the answers I get about masonry are rarely satisfying.

Which is why I continue to ask them.


May I ask, do you know any Masons personally?


Actually about 75 percent of the people that I know are Masons. This is mainly due to the fact that 90 percent of the people I know are people in the Army. As with most organizations that have a strict chain of command, the Army breeds masons like bunny rabbits. Since I got out of the Army I now work for a private security firm, which also lends itself to masons for whatever reason. So yes, I know quite a few, some of them very well since they are close friends that I went to war with.


How have you determined that there are levels to Masonry that excludes members of their own fraternity but YOU, not a Mason have discovered this truth? Are you saying that they are less aware of what's going on?


First of all, I don't claim to know this as a fact, it's just my most recent and most well-founded conclusion, though that's really not saying a whole lot. It's hard for a non-mason to have much of a foundation in this, but I play the cards I'm dealt as I don't see any other option except not to play at all.

As for the different levels of masonry, I've come to this conclusion based on what I know from masons I've talked to, and what from what I've read. The only masons that seem to argue this point are ones who appear to be in the lower levels of masonry, but again, it's hard to say this without being accused of outright assumption-making. I understand that you think it unwise of me to make this inference when the *possibly* lower-level masons seemingly do not believe this, but I would argue that an outside perspective always provides some unnoticed observations in any situation.


The knowledge you speak of is not kept to non-Masons. They are quite free with it, just not the modes of recognition. You can see it in this forum. Terms like, "From my mouth to your ear." ML will be able to explain that one better than I but I get the point.


But see, my problem with this is that you are only taking that from what masons are telling you. If I'm right about them keeping a "secret knowledge" of sorts, then the argument you're laying forward is obsolete.


From reading this forum, the keeping of the modes of recognition is a tradition that dates back to the times when Masonry was under attack from the Church, again ML can correct me. He's well versed in this matter, I'm but a reader. What's wrong with keeping tradition? Many people do it, not just the Masons.


I haven't attacked those secrets on any level. And I believe your history on the matter is just about as accurate as any. But then, wouldn't that just support my theory that they have some secret knowledge? The reason they were under attack was because they had some kind of forbidden knowledge. They were studying things that were potentially damaging to the church, so they had to go underground. So obviously, back then they were doing things in regards to knowledge and wisdom. So it's safe to say that that's what the fraternity is about. Nothing wrong with that. But if they do, in fact, have some kind of knowledge or wisdom that they are still keeping to themselves even today, I see that as a crime against humanity. I want to learn truths also, without having to take blood oaths and the like!



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 06:26 PM
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This is what I meant by "here we go again


Originally posted by an3rkist
As Ms. Frizzle from one of my favorite shows "The Magic Schoolbus" once said, "Keep asking questions, and you'll keep getting answers!" Unfortunately, the answers I get about masonry are rarely satisfying.



So what would satisfy you? Like I said, you seem to have preconceptions, even if the info you got was wrong would that info satisfy you, even if the info was inaccurate?


First of all, I don't claim to know this as a fact, it's just my most recent and most well-founded conclusion, though that's really not saying a whole lot. It's hard for a non-mason to have much of a foundation in this, but I play the cards I'm dealt as I don't see any other option except not to play at all.


So you are admitting that you are fishing for something YOU want to see.


As for the different levels of masonry, I've come to this conclusion based on what I know from masons I've talked to, and what from what I've read. The only masons that seem to argue this point are ones who appear to be in the lower levels of masonry,


This is spurious thinking. How do YOU know they are "lower level Masons"?


but again, it's hard to say this without being accused of outright assumption-making. I understand that you think it unwise of me to make this inference when the *possibly* lower-level masons seemingly do not believe this, but I would argue that an outside perspective always provides some unnoticed observations in any situation.


"Assumption making" is a good term. As to an "outside perspective" that is also spurious. It makes it sound that the Masons are obtuse to what's going on in their fraternity. THAT is a BOLD assumption. Of the millions of Masons none can see this going on behind their backs?


But see, my problem with this is that you are only taking that from what masons are telling you. If I'm right about them keeping a "secret knowledge" of sorts, then the argument you're laying forward is obsolete.


And what if you're wrong? I have a firmly tuned BS-O-Meter and I'm not seeing what you're saying. I also have NO preconceptions in this matter.


I haven't attacked those secrets on any level.


Who even implied that you did?


And I believe your history on the matter is just about as accurate as any. But then, wouldn't that just support my theory that they have some secret knowledge? The reason they were under attack was because they had some kind of forbidden knowledge. They were studying things that were potentially damaging to the church, so they had to go underground.


Well that's no biggie, the Church killed people off at will in the middle ages that sought to have ANY knowledge that the Church didn't want them to have. Not a blight on Masonry but it might say something about the Church. My apologies if you're Catholic but this is historic fact.



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
So what would satisfy you? Like I said, you seem to have preconceptions, even if the info you got was wrong would that info satisfy you, even if the info was inaccurate?


I suppose it's safe to assume that as long as I think the information is accurate it will satisfy me. But i would definitely prefer not to be deceived. To be honest with you I just want some concrete answers, and as I always discover with my questions regarding Freemasonry concrete answers are all but impossible to come by. I suppose a few masons saying "we just don't have secrets" might suffice for some people, but I have yet to be convinced. I don't know for sure what would satisfy, but I will never stop prodding for answers until I find some concrete answers. This may be a snipe-hunt, but it's not my nature to say, "Well, I can't get a concrete answer so I give up." And so, the quest will go on.


So you are admitting that you are fishing for something YOU want to see.


I honestly hope this is not what is going on, but as I said before outside perspectives are always beneficial, and it's possible that your perspective of my quest for knowledge has pointed out a severe flaw in my method of attack. (A figure of speech, not meant to imply anything to do with an actual "attack".) It's definitely possible that I'm "fishing for something I want to see", but I would hope and would definitely think that if I do not find it after sufficient investigation that I will move on to other theories. This is the scientific method at work. Observe, hypothesize, analyze, and either prove or disprove.


This is spurious thinking. How do YOU know they are "lower level Masons"?


Well as I stated before, (which was a vain attempt to avoid your accusation), I don't KNOW this. Due to the secrecy involved I can only make inferences based on my knowledge of the people I know, (i.e. how long they've been in masonry, etc.)


"Assumption making" is a good term. As to an "outside perspective" that is also spurious. It makes it sound that the Masons are obtuse to what's going on in their fraternity. THAT is a BOLD assumption. Of the millions of Masons none can see this going on behind their backs?


It's hard to not be spurious with this organization. They really leave me no choice unless I want to join their ranks and find out for myself, which would be unethical of me as I am an atheist and would have to lie to be admitted. I did not mean to accuse all masons, lower-level or not, of being obtuse. I merely said that it's possible that I can see things in a different light than the ones that I know personally do. And it's really not that big of a leap. Most organizations, if not all, work like this to some degree. Otherwise there would really be no point in have any kind of a chain of command or rank structure. The masonic chain of command is somewhat different from what I understand, but that doesn't change the fact that there are those in higher levels of masonry and those in lower levels.


And what if you're wrong? I have a firmly tuned BS-O-Meter and I'm not seeing what you're saying. I also have NO preconceptions in this matter.


If I'm wrong than I would like to know; I would like someone to prove me wrong. I suddenly feel like a theist asking for an atheist to prove that there is no God. It's quite possible that the answers I seek are all but unobtainable. It's possible that I'm asking questions that can neither be proven nor disproven, based on the nature of the fraternity. Nothing frustrates me more than having unasnwerable questions, which is why I continue to ask them in vain. Masons can tell me all day they don't have any secret knowledge, but there's really no way for them to prove it to me.

I'm just curious because if they do have knowledge that is not available to non-masons, I would most certainly like to know what it is. I'm a firm believer in denying ignorance in every facet of life, and if I were to just ignore the fact that they MIGHT have some knowledge that I don't have, it would be going against every fiber of my being. So as fruitless as it may be, I will not cease to answer questions even against seemingly unbearable odds of finding a satisfactory answer.


Who even implied that you did?


Sorry, I thought that when you were describing the history of the modes of recognition that you were implying that I had something against them. I didn't really see any other reason for you to have described it, but I must have taken it out of context.


Not a blight on Masonry but it might say something about the Church. My apologies if you're Catholic but this is historic fact.


I wouldn't consider this a blight on Masonry on any level, and apologise if my post implied that. I have great respect for them as it seems they were denying ignorance in the same way I wish to today. Again, as I've said, I'm merely trying to get as much information as possible, and if it means asking questions they may produce nothing then so be it. One day I'll ask a seemingly unanswerable question and receive an answer that will open doors to knowledge and truth the likes of which I've never even imagined. Or so I hope anyway.

[edit on 19/7/07 by an3rkist]



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 07:21 PM
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What is this "secret" that all of these anti-Masons keep talking about? Look, Masonry has been written about extensively... If you want to know about what Masonry is, the information is out there. I personally don't even consider Masonry a "secret society." But, I am one that has actually took the time to read some of the information that is there.



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
What is this "secret" that all of these anti-Masons keep talking about? Look, Masonry has been written about extensively... If you want to know about what Masonry is, the information is out there. I personally don't even consider Masonry a "secret society." But, I am one that has actually took the time to read some of the information that is there.


First of all, I'm not anti-Mason. I have great respect for what their advertised values and goals are.

I have also read quite extensively on masonry, though probably not as much as you because you seem to have come to a conclusion about them. I feel that if I were to come to a conclusion right now it would be premature, as I have too many unanswered questions about them.



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
What is this "secret" that all of these anti-Masons keep talking about? Look, Masonry has been written about extensively... If you want to know about what Masonry is, the information is out there. I personally don't even consider Masonry a "secret society." But, I am one that has actually took the time to read some of the information that is there.


Nevertheless, the mystery will always exist: "do not the secrets go deeper than what we know?"

What about the crypts under Rosslyn, for example?



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 07:42 PM
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Well, I will admit, as with any esoteric group or organization, everything is not as cut and dried as I might make it seem. There are some mysteries... Rosslyn is a good one... Also, there will always be the lingering question of whether the higher level Masons believe something that maybe even Pike or Hall didn't know.



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well, I will admit, as with any esoteric group or organization, everything is not as cut and dried as I might make it seem. There are some mysteries... Rosslyn is a good one... Also, there will always be the lingering question of whether the higher level Masons believe something that maybe even Pike or Hall didn't know.


It saddens me to think that any group would keep secret any amount of knowledge or wisdom that could be beneficial to any individual and in particular the human race. The only possible excuse would be that the information is somehow NOT beneficial to the human race, but what kind of dangerous information could they possibly have?

One of the reasons I've come to this inference is that many known masons are people that I have great respect for, due to their knowledge of truth and their obvious [to me] wisdom. It would seem that Freemasonry either attracts people of the type that I have great respect for, or that it helps cultivate the traits in the people to make them that way. I know that Freemasonry claims to make good men better, or something along those lines, so I find it highly possible that they have a system set up wherewith they teach men great things, and somehow have resources which are beneficial to knowledge and wisdom. What these things are is exactly what I'm looking for.

Of course, I could be wrong. Not every mason is a wise person. It just seems that they have a greater ratio of wise men to not-so-wise.

As was said, they claim that their only real secrets are their modes of recognition and initiations. It seems to me that the only legitimate reason to have these is if you have other secrets. Tradition is another reason, but if these were merely tradition and nothing more I think that at least some masons would be less inclined to keep them so secret.

But as with everything when it comes to Freemasonry, I could be wrong about everything. It sucks being ignorant. Maybe I should've joined back when I believed in God.


[edit on 19/7/07 by an3rkist]



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 07:59 PM
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Well, an3rkist, I think there is some chance that the masons might know something about "gods" "angels" "demons" or "aliens" that most humans, except those that have proven themselves worthy, could not handle.

It is likely that man would abuse such knowledge and this could lead to man's destruction.



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 08:08 PM
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Masons claim they keep secrets so as to make their rituals a surprise to new members. If the secrets were revealed, the Masons claim their new members would nt get the benefits of the pleasant surprise.

There might be some truth behind this. Masonry is a form of entertainment that must compete for people's discretionary income. If people decide to spend their money by going to the movies, golfing or drinking at a bar instead of joining a lodge and paying dues, masonry would be in trouble. A marketing hook Masonry has that other forms of enternainment do not have is mystery. Obtaining the privilege of learning the mysteries of masonry, irregardless of any real practical value masonic secrets may have, is something special and appealing to Masons and people who would join masonry. An interesting hook masonry has that other secret societies does not have is multiple levels of initiation. A mason can spend many years (and many dollars) being initiated into all the degrees of masonry. Without this marketing hook, masonry would lose its appeal and would dwindle in membership.



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by an3rkist
It saddens me to think that any group would keep secret any amount of knowledge or wisdom that could be beneficial to any individual and in particular the human race. The only possible excuse would be that the information is somehow NOT beneficial to the human race, but what kind of dangerous information could they possibly have?


What is beneficial for you, does not mean it will be for everybody else to. Dont forget that the church still has power. And they (ab)used it a lot to protect their religion.



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by Cygnific
What is beneficial for you, does not mean it will be for everybody else to. Dont forget that the church still has power. And they (ab)used it a lot to protect their religion.


I'm of the philosophy that truth is beneficial to all mankind. There may be something to be said about timing, (i.e. it's possible, though not likely, that some people are not ready to handle the truth), but truth in it's purest form is never detrimental to any human. Not in the grand scheme of things anyway, let's not get into a conversation about whether you should tell your girlfriend how she REALLY looks when she wakes up in the morning.



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by an3rkist


I'm still fairly unclear on what, exactly, is the esoteric learning that is being guarded by Freemasons. I know many masons will argue that they have no "secret knowledge" or wisdom of sorts, but I would argue that those masons are either of the lesser degrees that have not yet reached a point in their craft to study this secret wisdom, or that they are just lying.


In the Ritual of the 28th degree, written by our Illustrious Brother Pike, one of the officers truthfully tells the candidate that Masonry contains no esoteric wisdom or occult knowledge that is not available to the uninitiated public.

Of course, at one time, the doctrines of the Holy Kabalah and the Hermetic Science were kept secret. But these days, anybody with a library card can study these things.


I've heard the argument that the only secrets are their intitiations and signs of recognition or whatever, but in my research I've found this to be hard to believe. I know that I'm mostly ignorant when it comes to masonry, in no small part due to their secrecy, but I believe that the "fraternity" exists mainly to provide men of like morals and like beliefs a medium through which to learn certain esoteric wisdom about...something.


I would agree to an extent, and as mentioned, such studies were once done in secret to prevent persecution. But it is no longer necessary to be initiated into a Mystery School in order to receive such things. One need only pick up a book by Pike, Regardie, Case, Crowley, etc., to learn Hermetics and Kabalah.



Why do they feel that people outside the craft are somehow not worthy of this knowledge?


Personally, I think that many outside of the Craft are unworthy of it. I also think that many inside it are unworthy too. The whole purpose of Initiation is to prepare one to be worthy. This is why the Blue Lodge Degrees are concerned almost entirely with morality. If a Mason actually follows the teachings of those degrees, he is physically, intellectually, and spiritually prepared to receive more Light. The same can be said of the non-Mason. If the uninitiated ground themselves in morality, they too become ready and worthy. In the end, God is the True Initiator.

But if a Mason just "goes through the motions", gets his degrees, and doesn't pay any attention to the moral teachings, he is as worthless to the Great Work as any uninitiate who scoffs at morality.


I'm of the philosophy that all knowledge and wisdom that is right and good, is meant to be shared with as many people as possible. Guarding truth and keeping it amongst yourself or your fraternity is a sin, in my opinion. Why do they feel they must keep it secret?


The thing is, the true, dedicated Masons shout the teachings of the Fraternity from the rooftops. As it is written in the Gnostic Apocalypse, He who hath ears, let him hear what the Spirit saith.



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
In the Ritual of the 28th degree, written by our Illustrious Brother Pike, one of the officers truthfully tells the candidate that Masonry contains no esoteric wisdom or occult knowledge that is not available to the uninitiated public.

Of course, at one time, the doctrines of the Holy Kabalah and the Hermetic Science were kept secret. But these days, anybody with a library card can study these things.


Your reply failed to satisfy my curiousity one hundred percent, but as Intrepid pointed out I was probably fishing for something that was already set in my mind, and the information you provided did serve to fill in some holes. Thankfully he brought that to my attention before you came along so that my mind would be a more fertile planting ground for the information you've provided. May I ask, since you didn't in fact tell me any specific knowledge or wisdom that is taught, (not that I would expect you to), if there are any specific books you recommend in this area?


Personally, I think that many outside of the Craft are unworthy of it. I also think that many inside it are unworthy too. The whole purpose of Initiation is to prepare one to be worthy. This is why the Blue Lodge Degrees are concerned almost entirely with morality. If a Mason actually follows the teachings of those degrees, he is physically, intellectually, and spiritually prepared to receive more Light. The same can be said of the non-Mason. If the uninitiated ground themselves in morality, they too become ready and worthy. In the end, God is the True Initiator.


What exactly gives Freemasons the authority to say that a person is not worthy of a certain knowledge without going through certain initiations? I mean, it's all well and good that the knowledge is fairly available to all now, but the message this act is sending to me is that the Masons feel as if they have ownership of certain truths and that they get to decide who will be privy to those things. Is there any religious text, (i.e. scripture), that claims that only certain people should hear the truth? Shouldn't it be that the truth is what should lead people to live a virtuous life?

And one last question, if you don't mind: Do you ever think that perhaps there are Masons in levels above you that have access to knowledge you do not? (I'm of course assuming there are "higher levels" above your own.) I don't mean to continually accuse the fraternity of secrecy, but old traditions die hard, right?



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by uberarcanist
Well, an3rkist, I think there is some chance that the masons might know something about "gods" "angels" "demons" or "aliens" that most humans, except those that have proven themselves worthy, could not handle.

It is likely that man would abuse such knowledge and this could lead to man's destruction.



I think it has something to do with paleocontact and holding man back for his own good, concealing Atlantis, lost esoteric knowledge, etc. because if all this stuff was open domain, man would most likely destroy himself.



Has anyone noticed that mankind throughout history has caused or greatly added to his/her own destruction, be it on a personal or global level.

Maybe the *traditions* or knowledge of the how and why of them could allow more people to live fulfilling lives if more truth was available.

Only seems fair to me. I don't think some are worthy and others aren't I think all should be equally given the power of choice thru the practice of free will.


Cug

posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by an3rkist

What exactly gives Freemasons the authority to say that a person is not worthy of a certain knowledge without going through certain initiations? I mean, it's all well and good that the knowledge is fairly available to all now, but the message this act is sending to me is that the Masons feel as if they have ownership of certain truths and that they get to decide who will be privy to those things.



Perhaps it would help if you don't think of the "secret" as knowledge but rather a method of teaching that knowledge.

Everybody has access to the knowledge that Harvard teaches.. but that doesn't mean anybody can attend Harvard, you must be "worthy" to be allowed to attend.



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by an3rkist
What exactly gives Freemasons the authority to say that a person is not worthy of a certain knowledge without going through certain initiations?


Simple: because, as it is taught within the context of the degrees, it's THEIR MATERIAL!!

If I started a school which teaches basic and advanced belly-dancing, I would be perfectly within my rights to tell my students that they can't take the advanced class without first completing the basic. Why would I want the advanced class to be hindered or delayed by the (relatively) less accomplished beginners?

Freemasons aren't "withholding secret knowledge". Freemasonry developed its degrees to relay material which is accessible from many other sources (as has already been mentioned).



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