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Originally posted by an3rkist
I'm still fairly unclear on what, exactly, is the esoteric learning that is being guarded by Freemasons. I know many masons will argue that they have no "secret knowledge" or wisdom of sorts, but I would argue that those masons are either of the lesser degrees that have not yet reached a point in their craft to study this secret wisdom, or that they are just lying.
I've heard the argument that the only secrets are their intitiations and signs of recognition or whatever,
but in my research I've found this to be hard to believe. I know that I'm mostly ignorant when it comes to masonry, in no small part due to their secrecy,
but I believe that the "fraternity" exists mainly to provide men of like morals and like beliefs a medium through which to learn certain esoteric wisdom about...something. This could be wrong, but in my research and in my own self-debate, I've come to the conclusion that this is the purpose of Freemasonry.
So my question is, (assuming that this is, in fact, the purpose of Freemasonry), why do they feel as if they have some kind of ownership of this esoteric knowledge? Why do they feel that people outside the craft are somehow not worthy of this knowledge?
I'm of the philosophy that all knowledge and wisdom that is right and good, is meant to be shared with as many people as possible. Guarding truth and keeping it amongst yourself or your fraternity is a sin, in my opinion. Why do they feel they must keep it secret?
Originally posted by intrepid
Here we go again
May I ask, do you know any Masons personally?
How have you determined that there are levels to Masonry that excludes members of their own fraternity but YOU, not a Mason have discovered this truth? Are you saying that they are less aware of what's going on?
The knowledge you speak of is not kept to non-Masons. They are quite free with it, just not the modes of recognition. You can see it in this forum. Terms like, "From my mouth to your ear." ML will be able to explain that one better than I but I get the point.
From reading this forum, the keeping of the modes of recognition is a tradition that dates back to the times when Masonry was under attack from the Church, again ML can correct me. He's well versed in this matter, I'm but a reader. What's wrong with keeping tradition? Many people do it, not just the Masons.
Originally posted by an3rkist
As Ms. Frizzle from one of my favorite shows "The Magic Schoolbus" once said, "Keep asking questions, and you'll keep getting answers!" Unfortunately, the answers I get about masonry are rarely satisfying.
First of all, I don't claim to know this as a fact, it's just my most recent and most well-founded conclusion, though that's really not saying a whole lot. It's hard for a non-mason to have much of a foundation in this, but I play the cards I'm dealt as I don't see any other option except not to play at all.
As for the different levels of masonry, I've come to this conclusion based on what I know from masons I've talked to, and what from what I've read. The only masons that seem to argue this point are ones who appear to be in the lower levels of masonry,
but again, it's hard to say this without being accused of outright assumption-making. I understand that you think it unwise of me to make this inference when the *possibly* lower-level masons seemingly do not believe this, but I would argue that an outside perspective always provides some unnoticed observations in any situation.
But see, my problem with this is that you are only taking that from what masons are telling you. If I'm right about them keeping a "secret knowledge" of sorts, then the argument you're laying forward is obsolete.
I haven't attacked those secrets on any level.
And I believe your history on the matter is just about as accurate as any. But then, wouldn't that just support my theory that they have some secret knowledge? The reason they were under attack was because they had some kind of forbidden knowledge. They were studying things that were potentially damaging to the church, so they had to go underground.
Originally posted by intrepid
So what would satisfy you? Like I said, you seem to have preconceptions, even if the info you got was wrong would that info satisfy you, even if the info was inaccurate?
So you are admitting that you are fishing for something YOU want to see.
This is spurious thinking. How do YOU know they are "lower level Masons"?
"Assumption making" is a good term. As to an "outside perspective" that is also spurious. It makes it sound that the Masons are obtuse to what's going on in their fraternity. THAT is a BOLD assumption. Of the millions of Masons none can see this going on behind their backs?
And what if you're wrong? I have a firmly tuned BS-O-Meter and I'm not seeing what you're saying. I also have NO preconceptions in this matter.
Who even implied that you did?
Not a blight on Masonry but it might say something about the Church. My apologies if you're Catholic but this is historic fact.
Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
What is this "secret" that all of these anti-Masons keep talking about? Look, Masonry has been written about extensively... If you want to know about what Masonry is, the information is out there. I personally don't even consider Masonry a "secret society." But, I am one that has actually took the time to read some of the information that is there.
Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
What is this "secret" that all of these anti-Masons keep talking about? Look, Masonry has been written about extensively... If you want to know about what Masonry is, the information is out there. I personally don't even consider Masonry a "secret society." But, I am one that has actually took the time to read some of the information that is there.
Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well, I will admit, as with any esoteric group or organization, everything is not as cut and dried as I might make it seem. There are some mysteries... Rosslyn is a good one... Also, there will always be the lingering question of whether the higher level Masons believe something that maybe even Pike or Hall didn't know.
Originally posted by an3rkist
It saddens me to think that any group would keep secret any amount of knowledge or wisdom that could be beneficial to any individual and in particular the human race. The only possible excuse would be that the information is somehow NOT beneficial to the human race, but what kind of dangerous information could they possibly have?
Originally posted by Cygnific
What is beneficial for you, does not mean it will be for everybody else to. Dont forget that the church still has power. And they (ab)used it a lot to protect their religion.
Originally posted by an3rkist
I'm still fairly unclear on what, exactly, is the esoteric learning that is being guarded by Freemasons. I know many masons will argue that they have no "secret knowledge" or wisdom of sorts, but I would argue that those masons are either of the lesser degrees that have not yet reached a point in their craft to study this secret wisdom, or that they are just lying.
I've heard the argument that the only secrets are their intitiations and signs of recognition or whatever, but in my research I've found this to be hard to believe. I know that I'm mostly ignorant when it comes to masonry, in no small part due to their secrecy, but I believe that the "fraternity" exists mainly to provide men of like morals and like beliefs a medium through which to learn certain esoteric wisdom about...something.
Why do they feel that people outside the craft are somehow not worthy of this knowledge?
I'm of the philosophy that all knowledge and wisdom that is right and good, is meant to be shared with as many people as possible. Guarding truth and keeping it amongst yourself or your fraternity is a sin, in my opinion. Why do they feel they must keep it secret?
Originally posted by Masonic Light
In the Ritual of the 28th degree, written by our Illustrious Brother Pike, one of the officers truthfully tells the candidate that Masonry contains no esoteric wisdom or occult knowledge that is not available to the uninitiated public.
Of course, at one time, the doctrines of the Holy Kabalah and the Hermetic Science were kept secret. But these days, anybody with a library card can study these things.
Personally, I think that many outside of the Craft are unworthy of it. I also think that many inside it are unworthy too. The whole purpose of Initiation is to prepare one to be worthy. This is why the Blue Lodge Degrees are concerned almost entirely with morality. If a Mason actually follows the teachings of those degrees, he is physically, intellectually, and spiritually prepared to receive more Light. The same can be said of the non-Mason. If the uninitiated ground themselves in morality, they too become ready and worthy. In the end, God is the True Initiator.
Originally posted by uberarcanist
Well, an3rkist, I think there is some chance that the masons might know something about "gods" "angels" "demons" or "aliens" that most humans, except those that have proven themselves worthy, could not handle.
It is likely that man would abuse such knowledge and this could lead to man's destruction.
I think it has something to do with paleocontact and holding man back for his own good, concealing Atlantis, lost esoteric knowledge, etc. because if all this stuff was open domain, man would most likely destroy himself.
Originally posted by an3rkist
What exactly gives Freemasons the authority to say that a person is not worthy of a certain knowledge without going through certain initiations? I mean, it's all well and good that the knowledge is fairly available to all now, but the message this act is sending to me is that the Masons feel as if they have ownership of certain truths and that they get to decide who will be privy to those things.
Originally posted by an3rkist
What exactly gives Freemasons the authority to say that a person is not worthy of a certain knowledge without going through certain initiations?