The Human-Alien Pact

*Assuming* that the story is true, I could see one possible "peaceful" reason for them to stop reporting it to the Govt. Maybe every person they reported "disappeared" into a govt lab. The govt would probably try to figure out what if anything the aliens did to the people.

If this is true the more dangerous of the too are humans, humans with a 100% track record of dishonesty and betrayal.
Why should any one keep thier end of the bargain with a traitor.

[edit on 8-7-2007 by thesun]

Originally posted by pjslug

So you have truly seen enough evidence on UFOs from eyewitness accounts to last ten lifetimes, so why don't you believe?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

There are a number of great sayings that are bantered around on these forums. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence", is one of those. Actually, absence of evidence is usually absence of evidence. No harm or offense is intended.

Why I don't believe.... Could fill a whole large book the way you state that I don't believe. It is not always that black and white, regardless of what the anti-sceptic faction seems to think and try to convince everyone else of. Actually, that is not even close to the case. I know there are UFOs. I've seen a number of them, myself. One, actually, freaked me out.

It was a very bright summer afternoon here in Missouri. I was outside with a friend of mine about 2:00 p.m. The sky was totally clear and blue with the exception of one lone "smallish" cloud, about the size of a quarter held at arm's length from your face. It was scooting along pretty quickly on a west"ish" to east"ish" direction. I mentioned it to my friend and he looked up just as the cloud started "fading" as it would do if it were being faded in a movie to disappear.

Anyway, it faded and just as it disappeared, there was a bright twinkling light at the top of it that appeared and disappeared with the intensity of an old camera flash bulb. Then... Poof the damned thing was gone as if it never existed.

Now, that was a UFO (Unidentified Flying Object), but what the heck can one say regarding identifying it? I'm not willing to jump up and say it is aliens from the planet, Munimula. Are you?

Another reason that I maintain my scepticism is mainly the way I answered the first post. After sixty years (1947 - 2007), we have evidence, but no proof. For example, some people swear there is a base in Dulce. Others have gone there and found nothing. I would submit that with all the people visiting there, one would think that there would be your evidence. Andyet, all there seems to be is bickering over "Yes it's there'... "No it isn't".

Time after time, there have been many "wonderous" occurances, and supposed situations or happenings that continuously keep coming up as hoaxes. Of course, having said that, there are a few items that are unexplainable. I don't deny that. However, unexplainable items do not create an explanation. Betty Hill's star map, a probable Aha! Evidence, but could have been just as easily, a fluke. And frankly, back in those halcyon days, when I was a staunch believer, much like you, that was one of my arguing points.

However, and my bottom line, 60 years into this quagmire (almost as long as I have been alive) that we call UFOlogy, we are no closer to an explanation than we were in 47, when all the current hooplah began. We still find "most" evidence that could be proof, tends to be fabricated. We find that many of the people who are in the field are in it for the aggrandizement, and often enough, the money.

I agree with you and many others to this extent... There is something happening up there that we are not currently capable of explaining other than with worn little sayings like "absence of evidence...." And another one that I think is pretty hacked around by some hard line sceptics, about "substantial claims requiring substantial proof" or words like that...That's Bulldada... All any claim requires to make it so, is "proof".

And proof is something that we currently do not have. If we had proof in lieu of evidence then there would be no more scepticism. And you and I would not be discussing this, but rather some other fantastic claim.

If you really read my last entry, you'd see that I would like to very much believe some of those things (for better or worse), but I am not willing to simply believe in something that doesn't feel, to me, like I shoud beleive in it, simply because that seems to be the only option.

Hope that helps you understand where I'm coming from a little better.

Edited to correct my inabilty to count quote and unquote tags.

[edit on 9-7-2007 by sigung86]

Originally posted by Xerimethius

Originally posted by rickjamesia
Why is it assumed that just because WE don't respect the sovereignty of weaker parties, that beings from another planet don't either? Do people not see it as a possibility that aliens could ask first, because they believe it to be incorrect not to? Also, if they can reach other planets with less advanced civilizations, maybe they choose the willing planets to stay near?

Because it is better to assume an extraterrestrial civilization is hostile, allowing us to prepare for anything they might throw at us, than to assume they are nice peaceful beings, only to have them enslave all of mankind. I don't know about you, but I'd rather take the safe route on this one.

Its doubtful any advanced civilization would be violent. When SETI first started, the question was asked "do we respond if a signal was discovered ?"

The answer was a resounding yes.

Any civilization with advanced technology to travel the stars also would have the ability to destroy themselves in the blink of an eye. Therefore, to survive to the point of advancing that far would mean their culture had moved past war.

In addition, it was thought by this scientific panel studying the question that war might possibly be uniquely human. We fight and murder others over money. Odds are any advanced race that hasnt destroyed themselves, hasnt used up all their planet's natural resources, etc doesnt use a money system.

Furthermore, if a civilization has the technology to travel the stars it also must have other technologies FAR beyond anything here on Earth. Do you honestly think that our primitive abilities would stand a chance against another race capable of intersteller travel ?

Any defense by us would be laughable. The fact that we still exist is proof enough that any aliens visiting us arent violent.

Yeah, yeah, humans are pathetic insects and aliens are gods. Would you declare war against ants? Rodents? Monkeys? No, because they're all lesser species. Were you a scientist who was interested in learning about those species, would you hesitate to experiment on them? Would you hesitate to open them up? The answer is no.

Why should it be different for any other race? Because they have nice big spaceships? They've suddenly lost the desire to learn? I don't think so. In all probability, they wouldn't believe experimenting on humans is wrong. It's just something that must be done. Does that make them inherently good, then? Absolutely not. I'm sure many dictators truly believed that they needed to commit genocide for the greater good. It doesn't change the fact that their victims viewed them as monsters.

War isn't even unique to humans on this planet. Chimps have been known to go to war with their own kind. They just don't have the capabilities that we have to destroy one another and everything else.

Like I said, it would be better to assume an alien race is hostile until they prove otherwise. I'm not saying to launch nukes at them. I'm just it would be very stupid to embrace them with open arms and allow them to do whatever they like, because they look so cuddly and they traveled this far, so they must just want to love us and crap. Stephen Hawking agrees with me and for all the right reasons.

I'll even reach a little. Let's pretend Greys exist. There's absolutely no doubt. They're out there, keeping a low profile, working with the governments around the world. They're also abducting people, probing them, impregnating them, slaughtering them, slaughtering our cattle, destroying our crops and who knows what else. But they're the good guys! It doesn't make sense to me.

Why I don't believe.... Could fill a whole large book the way you state that I don't believe. It is not always that black and white, regardless of what the anti-sceptic faction seems to think and try to convince everyone else of. Actually, that is not even close to the case. I know there are UFOs. I've seen a number of them, myself. One, actually, freaked me out.

Thank you for the thorough response. I understand what you are saying, and you are certainly allowed to have your beliefs. However, to say there is no proof is a ludicrous statement. Just because you aren't one of the people holding proof in your hands doesn't mean it doesn't exist somewhere and isn't being held by organizations with a lot more power and money than either you or I will ever see. There are countless videos and testimonies of people that were at the upper echelon of top secret classification working for the military. There is one in particular where Jesse Marcel Jr. is examing a piece of a craft. There is the disclosure project. There are over half a million reported sightings from citizens in this country alone. I don't see how one can turn a blind eye to that. People have been asked to have faith in much less, like religion. They believe in God as their bible tells them yet they have never held proof of God in their hands. But people do have proof and videos of these crafts, and tons of them have given extremely detailed accounts of their abductions or encounters. Are we to believe that such a large percentage of the population are experiencing some sort of mass delusion? I for one don't think so. Also, the term UFO was coined by the CIA to describe these craft but in itself is a misinformation campaign. We know what they are, they have been identified, and we know how they work. So the words Unidentified Flying Object, when people hear and see it, makes them constantly question the reality of these objects that exist.

In addition, it was thought by this scientific panel studying the question that war might possibly be uniquely human. We fight and murder others over money. Odds are any advanced race that hasnt destroyed themselves, hasnt used up all their planet's natural resources, etc doesnt use a money system.

Furthermore, if a civilization has the technology to travel the stars it also must have other technologies FAR beyond anything here on Earth. Do you honestly think that our primitive abilities would stand a chance against another race capable of intersteller travel ?

Any defense by us would be laughable. The fact that we still exist is proof enough that any aliens visiting us arent violent.

I must say that I disagree with almost everything you say:
- a planet can use a monetary system AND sustain its resources. it's just our understanding of our world that makes us think that money is the problem.
- you dont know how many planet they have used, maybe they have colonized many, terraformed a few etcetc...

and saying that:


in fact: the fact that some beings from outer space may have the ability to travel triggers for many the instinctive impression that their society is peaceful, well organized, freed of the hassles of things WE know...

in fact: the simple fact that these beings may be able to travel through space make people believe a dream world exists: Theirs...

Why dont anybody come up with an idea: "hey, maybe they are not that advanced compared to us and their model of society is something we could find despicable."

indeed: maybe they have focused all their efforts on space travel at the expense of something different, they have slaves etcetc.

and by the way: the more advanced WE are, the more powerful the weapons... maybe they act the same way. why would they send crew in deep space in spaceships that wouldnt be equipped with weapons "just in case"...

In brief: It's a mistake to think that if some beings are more advanced technologically, they are peaceful and benevolent... the scary thing is: you are just guessing.


Stick to the fact: you see a UFO that belongs to an Alien civilization. the only thing you can say is: they can do things we dont. now "they dont wage wars, they don't use money..." sounds a bit like a "back to the 70s"...

think about one thing: you wage war for things you dont have or to maintain a balance of power (you dont want to loose strategic assets). what is it we may have that would be of interest to them? If there is something of interest would it make sense to send troops to invade a planet with 6 billion people? maybe a bit more subtle strategy would be better suited...

I probably shouldn't "go there" again, but hey that's what we are here for, to explore and share, right? Along with denying ignorance of course.

I don't know what is what but I can say that some things in the last 9 months have created a new interest of possibilities in my mind.

I wasn't particularly interested in all the search for answers on the UFO/extraterrestrial phenomena. I had read some stories watched a few documenteries like most people until last fall when someone suggested I check out the thread by Alien Agenda to make contact with the "greys" I did the meditation for awhile then shook it off and looked around and saw a spot on my arm that was bleeding from a very small puncture. Well that was strange of course but I let it go.

Then a bit later I woke up with what is usually considered by those who talk about it to be a *scoop mark* on my arm.

A few other strange things happened that I won't go into, but that indicated some kind of *wormhole* or other dimensional/realm travel was being enacted by others.

Then a couple of months ago my teenage daughter had a "molar pregnancy" this is when the body acts as though it is pregnant but there is no fetus. The medical professionals all get out the handbook when they try to explain this kind of thing because they really don't know what happens when the body creates material for the baby but there is no baby.

Like there was a baby but there is no baby left, just potential cancerous materials.
Anyway, probably nothing, but food for thought.

[edit on 10-7-2007 by interestedalways]

Originally posted by pjslug
Thank you for the thorough response. I understand what you are saying, and you are certainly allowed to have your beliefs. However, to say there is no proof is a ludicrous statement. Just because you aren't one of the people holding proof in your hands doesn't mean it doesn't exist somewhere and isn't being held by organizations with a lot more power and money than either you or I will ever see. There are countless videos and testimonies of people that were at the upper echelon of top secret classification working for the military.

PJ, you just changed the whole direction of the discussion. You asked why I don’t believe. I told you why. And, as ludicrous as it may seem, you and I are on our way to being caught in a double bind, because there is no proof that my statement is ludicrous. There is no proof that there are any organizations either with or without more money and power than I have, holding any evidence that I don’t have. What you are saying is basically the problem with the whole UFO scene.
Folks say that it only makes sense that our planet is not the only planet with life on it. That may very well be true. I would love for it to be true. But, there is no proof, other than what appears to one person to be the simple logic of the fact. However, logic of one person, or even a group of people who believe one way doesn’t make it right. I present to you the following evidence. Remember a few years back when there was a comet coming at our planet? There was a group, out in LA, I think, who knew for a fact that there was a UFO following it that was going to pick them all up. They “knew” without a doubt that this was fact. They believed so strongly that they committed suicide so that they would be able to be “transubstantiated”, to the UFO. Unfortunately, in spite of their belief, and it was so strong that it served as proof for them, all they did was end up dead.

There is one in particular where Jesse Marcel Jr. is examing a piece of a craft.

– Which has never been really proven to be anything other than what it was later claimed to be

There is the disclosure project. There are over half a million reported sightings from citizens in this country alone.

Re-read my last post PJ… I haven’t denied that there is something going on out there in the great blue beyond. I’m simply saying that none of this constitutes proof as to who, or what, the pilots of the UFS really are.

I don't see how one can turn a blind eye to that. People have been asked to have faith in much less, like religion. They believe in God as their bible tells them yet they have never held proof of God in their hands. But people do have proof and videos of these crafts, and tons of them have given extremely detailed accounts of their abductions or encounters. Are we to believe that such a large percentage of the population are experiencing some sort of mass delusion? I for one don't think so.

Once again, PJ, you are kind of preaching to the choir here. I haven’t denied that there are UFOs. I am simply not jumping on the “Aliens from another planet are the ones piloting their UFOs bandwagon without enough evidence to support the supposition.

Also, the term UFO was coined by the CIA to describe these craft but in itself is a misinformation campaign. We know what they are, they have been identified, and we know how they work.

All of the above may have been settled to your satisfaction, but not everyone elses. I can suppose where they are from, where they are going, who is driving them, and how they are powered. But… Until such a time as there is rock solid, inarguable proof, the above statement is not a fact to a large number of people.

So the words Unidentified Flying Object, when people hear and see it, makes them constantly question the reality of these objects that exist.

PJ, there is no solid proof for every UFO being what you say. Even is some are, there are others that do not fit the standard bill of fare of a standard flying saucer, and so, until it is resolved that they are from Munimula, piloted by aliens and use a super-Zoomy light warp drive, they are, correctly, UFOs.

Keep the comments coming. I am enjoying discussing this with you. I love it when people try to get at the truth(s) as they see it without calling each other rude names.

Lately, I seem to have become one of those dreaded thread killers. My sincerest apologies to any I might have dissuaded from posting further on this thread, as it seemed to just be getting where we might be talking.

Originally posted by Xerimethius

Originally posted by rickjamesia
Why is it assumed that just because WE don't respect the sovereignty of weaker parties, that beings from another planet don't either? Do people not see it as a possibility that aliens could ask first, because they believe it to be incorrect not to? Also, if they can reach other planets with less advanced civilizations, maybe they choose the willing planets to stay near?

Because it is better to assume an extraterrestrial civilization is hostile, allowing us to prepare for anything they might throw at us, than to assume they are nice peaceful beings, only to have them enslave all of mankind. I don't know about you, but I'd rather take the safe route on this one.

yea i agree. althogh i would like them to be nonhostile. i'm not taking any chances.