Suicide...For a Reason?

Salaam All,

I used to have these crazy dreams of people burning in hot oil and flying babys and my face being disfigured.
At some state i couldnt sleep for days, i used to drink and smoke alot of weed. I always used to think i was just another Human and that everything was fake.
As a result i wanted to kill myself many times, but i was not strong enough to do that.
I think that if someon chooses to kill themselves they have to be very very strong and not in a mental state of
depression. But the Truth is that it doesnt help you nor anyone for you to kill yourself. You must look at life your own way, enjoy the trees, enjoy the water and mountains, go overseas to poor countries and see life differantly, im telling you now you will change your thinking.
I had a friend who was really greedy and got everything from his perants.
He went to Chile for 3 months expecting to have the time of his life, like most Chileans do.
But he went there and he didnt have a clue that his perants family were all poor, and lived in houses that were build by them near the mud. Anyways he came back and praise God he is a totally differant person, he is now more appreciative of his posetions and he gives alot more that he used to!!
Brothers and Sister's of this board please go take a trip or visit some that dont have the benefits that you have, you will see changes, God willing!!

Salaam

Sebs

Originally posted by Cutwolf
Lilbalm, have you ever considered that this "truth" - this "reality" you've "discovered" is the result of an overactive and over-paranoid mind?

Sure, every day. Then I wake up again. Every time I learn a new thing, or I come across new information, I force myself to question everything I've learned previously and see if there are any inherent problems or contradictions. By this time, I am no longer depressed, suicidal, or even upset. I have learned to deal with people as appropriate in each individual circumstance. I choose to seek knowledge, but I cannot hold anyone else to this, and even if I am forced to share the same world with ignorant sleeping sheeple (by their own choice of course), then so be it. When they are ready to know what I've come to understand, they will seek it and find it themselves - it's in front of their nose every single day, just waiting to be discovered.

You come across as intelligent, and, as someone who has an "above average IQ," I know intelligent minds think up some crazy things. Maybe this "truth" and "reality" you've discovered is simply you creating something and wanting to have your own private thing you believe in.

I understand where you're coming from and what you're saying. However, there is just too much obvious evidence and way too many connections that lead me to the same conclusion, to ignore them. The more I look, the more I search, the more apparent these things become, and the less real these lies/illusions are that permeate the planet that keep the sheeple under strict control. Some of these things are the ONLY logical conclusions based on some clear thinking about certain concepts. The more I question the validity of this, the more it reaffirms itself and the more solidity it gets. This is rather hard to put into words in such a general sense, but there is truly much involved in this, there is no "truth" as ONE thing. Truth is INFINITE in scope, knowledge has no limit or end. Same goes for lies. However, lies depend on people to exist, but truth is self-sufficient and is part of objective reality.

Maybe this fruitless 24/7 search for some ground breaking, life changing "truth" led you to metaphorically multiply something by 0 and get something other than 0 - no matter what you do, its always going to be 0.

That's assuming nothing is ADDED to the 0. You're saying that I started with no truth, twisted the stuff around, and pretended I now have truth. But I DID add to this, I LEARNED many NEW things, things that really ARE ground breaking and life changing, although it really is subjective how you view this knowledge. This knowledge is not my own delusion, a belief, or a self-created lie to satisfy the "urge" to know some "truth", although it may seem this way to you and I understand that. Actually, any psychiatrist will probably conclude that I'm "nuts", simply because the psychiatrist IS a human after all, and is conditioned to live a lie as all humans are. Anything outside our programming is automatically rejected by our minds, unless of course we work on ourselves and learn to strip away our own illusions (beliefs), and wishful-thinking.

Maybe, just maybe, you became sick of no results from your search

That might be true IF there were no results, which is a false premise!

, so you manipulated it so in some nonsensical way it became something other than "0."

You present yourself in a calm, intelligent, "I don't care if you believe me" manner, yet I think you do care. If you did not care, you would not dangle this "carrot" in front of our noses.

True, I have this overwhelming desire to wake others up, although I understand how senseless that really is. Those who wish to wake up seek the knowledge themselves, and I can only serve to help them attain it - I cannot give it to those who are not seeking it. It's like pouring water in the middle of the desert - useless to the extreme. However, I am still "working" on taming that urge to wake everyone else up, and the disbelief that people can actually CHOOSE to be ignorant. It's hart to come to terms with, although NECESSARY if I am to avoid violating the free will of those who choose to NOT see.

Its like the ATS readers are cats and you're holding what appears to be the fish in front of their noses. You nudge the cats around on a wild goose (or fish, in this case) chase and eventually, after fruitless searching for this fish, they realize there are no fish and the fish you were holding was just a plush toy.

Maybe ATS is your way to get that attention you seem to be lacking underneath your "I dont care" attitude (as evidenced by your last post:

I feel like that absolutely with anyone now, and I no longer have any "friends" as people understand the term. I have more or less people I occasionally "associate" with out of necessity at work etc, but my mindset has been so drastically altered that I find small talk and typical chit chat or whatever people do when they just "hang out" absolutely ludicrous and senseless.

What really hangs like a rock over my head is the absolute ignorance of people, how "truth" doesn't interest them at all. They only care about fun, movies, parties, sex, dating, videogames, reality shows, the latest computers, sports (big one...)... etc. Imagine me coming up to ANYONE and trying to explain that all of this has been purposefully created to distract them and keep them busy. Don't forget, the act of constantly being kept busy is the number one thing that allows the intense state of suggestability that permeates all levels of our society. It keeps people blind, ignorant, and without even a desire anymore for truth. If someone questions something, there will always come along a Preacher (not just religious, just anyone) who will set them straight. All these are only a small portion of the variety of ways that 3rd density humans on this planet are controlled.

To me this says it all. I am no psychologist, but I'm willing to bet that you aren't very social in real life and may not have the best luck making friends or getting along with people.

Interesting deduction, but false in this case. I have absolutely no problem getting along with people, and in fact, I practically NEVER have any confrontations with people. I do not choose to have "my way" and violate free will of another to do as they wish, and this is a good way to avoid unnecessary conflict. Getting along is the easy part, but actually FEELING close to someone, or BEING on the same level with someone in terms of gereral understanding of reality and the way this world "ticks", that's an issue. This may create an impression that I think I'm "smarter than everyone else" which is false, as my capacity to retain and process knowledge is not really anything "special". However, my burning desire to only seek truth may be considered special, as it's not very common, and therefore when I actually FIND the truth, it by default clashes with practically everyone else's "ideas" of reality, and therefore creates a problem if I tried to be sincere with someone about such issues. If I choose to "drop the act" and be real, THIS is the part where I end up in the mental hospital. To avoid such a fate, I am forced to maintain at least a margin of "the act" to appease the appetites of certain individuals for "socialising", although I try to keep this at a MINIMUM.

You feel like just another face in the crowd and someone that no one gives a second glance to, so ATS is your way to get noticed - your way to get attention.

Started out to be a way to "wake people up", and now, as I've learned the futility of such an endeavor, as it's upto the individual whether he is ready and chooses to wake up, I abstain from quite so many posts as you've noticed. I let nature take its course, and observe. I am always here to help anyone who asks, but I can ONLY HELP, the work is always done by the individual. The teacher in school can ONLY HELP, the work to LEARN is always done by you, isn't it? Life is just another school. Although I'm no teacher, I'm just a student who is just a few lessons ahead, though still in the same grade.

I'm really sorry to go off and rant like this, but as a message board visitor for the past 6 or 7 years, this is a classic case of "Attention whore" syndrome - much the same as John Titor.

Perhaps, though as you can see, the "attention whore" syndrome has waned lately. I am constantly learning and advancing myself, and try not to stagnate on the same lesson by being entropic and non-thinking as most people indeed are. I try to truly BE, to exercise my FREE WILL, by becoming aware of new knowledge that reveals new choices and learning to be CONSCIOUS of reality, instead of just running numerous programs in my mind to create the illusion of "choices" for myself, as pretty much all people do by default. Effort must be used in this work on the self, in order to wake up and STAY awake, as the urge to "fall back asleep" is ever-present. You can look at this in any way you like, subjective reality doesn't affect objective reality. However, I do try to be concise and to make my point as clear as possible, though sometimes poor choice of words can really mess things up.

Anyway, this is my way of denying ignorance. Denying the ignorance of believing someone who makes it seem like we are all ignorant and he is the king of ignorance denying.

That was cute. Well, to believe someone, is the first and the biggest step on the road to ignorance - lack of knowledge. Do you think the truth really is out there somewhere? And if so, then doesn't it mean that it is POSSIBLE for someone, somewhere to KNOW it? And if so, isn't it possible that I could know it, at least in part? What do you think it takes to see how deep the rabbit hole really goes? A miracle? Or perhaps just the WILL to do it and the perseverence to never stop searching? EVERY question that you can possibly think of has a right answer. Some people seek the answer, while others sit there and wait for the answer to be "shown" to them by someone else. The latter never find the truth, because you cannot learn to ride a bike without actually RIDING the bike. You cannot learn to swim without actually swimming. You cannot learn the truth without actually SEEKING the truth. However, to have an anticipated idea of what you will find as you seek it is NOT seeking at all.

Even better, do you think you'd recognize the truth if you saw it, when your mind has no room for it, nor any desire to SEE it. This represents pretty much ALL humans on this planet, with the exception of a few. Those few consist of the elite that govern our planet, although they themselves are wishfully thinking and serving self, which means they learn JUST enough knowledge to have power over the people, but choose to ignore the rest. In addition, there are a few service-to-others candidates that ALSO seek knowledge, and they ALSO learn it, retain it, and share it with others who ASK for it. Asking is not verbal, but by the effort of the individual to honestly, without expectation seek truth.

Believe me? No, I'd never ask anyone to do that, this would contradict all that I've learned.

Originally posted by mcs1627
Liblam:
I was thinking about how everyone i know is always so busy and how they never really get a chance to sit down and think about life. Then i thought about how i am not so busy and i actually get a chance to think about life, and when i think about it i just get really depressed and then i think that it would just be better not knowing. Then i realize that i want to know. Overall the whole point to my post is to ask you/anyone is it better not knowing, is ignorance bliss?

That's a choice you'll have to make for yourself. Think of a baby, who really knows nothing about the world. Are babies in a blissful state? In one sense, in terms of physical comforts perhaps, although they are heavily dependant on others to provide for them. The more you know, the less dependant you become. The more power over yourself you have. The more protected you are from every threat imaginable. Knowledge is everything, and everything is knowledge. Think in a more extreme way to really understand the choice: Would you rather be a really comfortable ROCK, that has no knowledge or self-awareness, but is ever-blissful as it has no real "problems" as seen from your human perspective. Or, would you rather be a human, who is aware of more choices, aware of many more things, but also aware of new problems and new lessons as well. The universe is always balanced, and such concepts as Heaven and Hell are subjective and only exist to control and subdue the weak-minded - those unaware of reality. Belief is unnecessary, only a mind that seeks to know and put in the EFFORT to know. The choice, once again, is yours.

Perhaps when you're in isolation you become depressed with just how little you really KNOW about what truly IS? And this manifests in your desire to "not think about it" and distract yourself with maybe a TV show or go take a bath, or any number of activities. Whatever it takes to avoid facing reality, and your lack of knowledge of same. However, at some point, all these external influences are taken away, and you are left with only your mind, as even your body can be taken away upon death. So you're still faced with only the knowledge that you have, and THAT is the time that you cannot "forget about it" and go watch TV. Imagine a nuclear war, where all your "modern comforts" are pretty much removed, where do you stand in relation to the rest of the universe? What knowledge have you gained in this lifetime? What have you learned? Your subjective beliefs will make no difference - there will not be any relions left, no Churches, no spiritual circles, no "mom and dad support", you will only have the knowledge that you've gained of reality, will you be satisfied with that?

You always have the choice to stay asleep, pretend that "everything is fine with the world, the president does what's best for our country, our government is honest, God loves me, I pay my taxes, I have a happy family, a big house with a white picket fence, a good car, a great haircut, a lovely girlfriend/wife/husband, and a whole junkload of other ATTACHMENTS that are only transitory in nature". In reality, you have NOTHING but illusions of "ownership" and programmed lies that your mind takes for reality, imposed by control mechanisms such as religion and society. Once all that is GONE, what have you to fall back on?

You might want to think about that for a while. So is ignorance bliss? Yes and no. Yes because happiness is subjective and can be attained at any time, and therefore you can be happy not knowing anything, as you decide that you have all that you need, and everything else is useless and "over there", not effecting you or your life.

And NO, because objectively you'll have NOTHING. Knowledge is truth, it is understanding of reality and of the SELF, and YOU are a mirror image of the universe in which you reside. Linear human concepts do not apply. The choice is yours, and there are no "right" or "wrong" choices, just CHOICES and the result of those choices. All there is, is lessons! That is the only reason for anything to exist. If you can understand that concept, you are well on your way - though very few understand this.

Read my signature..

[Edited on 12-4-2004 by lilblam]

Someone earlier posted something about antidepressants causing suicides, I'm too lazy to get the quote right now. That information came out about a month ago, a day after my friend was found in his garage hanging by some of the orange cord weed wackers use. He had been on anti-depressants all his life and was always a super happy person. It pisses me off this information hadn't came out a day earlier. Me and my friends have no clue why he did it, a sophomore in highschool in AP classes captain of track and wrestling teams and on varsity football. Andidepressants probably had something to do with it cause he was a happy kid.

[Edited on 12-4-2004 by glitch314]

lilblam I apologize if I came off as harsh in my last post. I enjoy playing devil's advocate here and taking an opposite stand of the norm. Wether I personally believe you or not I will not say, but don't take anything I said personally. You're actually one of the most interesting posters on the board.

Originally posted by Cutwolf
lilblam I apologize if I came off as harsh in my last post. I enjoy playing devil's advocate here and taking an opposite stand of the norm. Wether I personally believe you or not I will not say, but don't take anything I said personally. You're actually one of the most interesting posters on the board.

I don't take anything personally, nor do I take "offense" to anything. What does taking offense mean anyway? This is not applied specifically to anything you said, but just in general. Does a subjective opinion/judgement alter anything about objective reality? No.

So what would be taking offense? My ego would. My ego doesn't want my "status" to be "lessened" and seen as inferior in someone else's view because someone judged me in some way. The ego has no concern for objectivity, but it creates the illusion that what someone said is actually painful and presents a problem.

Let's say someone calls me "an idiot" for example. Well, I understand that we're ALL idiots in relation to someone else, because this is really relative isn't it? So is stupid, dumb, smart, genius etc - all relative! I'm both an idiot, and a genius, when compared to different people or different beings anyway. However, people DO take offense to being called an idiot, due to their own ignorance and illusions that this altered something about their "being". This is actually the same spot in you where "envy" or "jealousy" originates. You're jealous when your girlfriend sleeps with another guy, because you think you OWN her, and therefore want to feel SPECIAL that you're the only one lucky enough to be with her. If another guy gets involved you feel like something has been "taken" from you, your property, and you feel less in CONTROL, less SPECIAL. This human dynamic of relationships and CHEATING, and the jealousy involved all stem from the EGO, our desire to ATTACH to something, to OWN something, to create the illusion of possession, where there really IS no such concept in objective reality. Really, there isn't! The sun doesn't OWN our planet does it? It can PRETEND it does, and get very UPSET if another sun comes along and tugs it away with its gravity, but in REALITY that ownership is only in the MIND of our sun, isn't it? The only thing that objectively exists is the forces involved etc.

Lucky for us, our sun has no ego built into it, else we'd be its PROPERTY and it would be attached to us and claim to "love us" etc. All human concepts! So therefore, I do not take offense to anything you or anyone else says, as I try to be objective and actually have control over MYSELF, rather than allowing the different parts of ME, the different I's to individually but collectively control me. Objectivity is key to knowledge, isn't it...

Can you see how knowledge offers protection? Knowledge of objective dynamics involved in "name calling" or "judgements" protects one from submitting to the EGO and feeling "hurt" in terms of being offended. This can REALLY save you a lot of "heartache" and STRESS, which literally DAMAGES you little by little as you know. Knowledge is all there is, and provides protection from every possible form of harm in existance!


[Edited on 12-4-2004 by lilblam]

Perhaps thinking way outside the box can become a box in it's own?

By the way, how can I search for something if I don't know what I'm searching for? Why do you beleive what you found as the truth over everything else? There are many theories, why beleive this one? If you could give me some ground to search upon, I certainly will.

Originally posted by Herman
Perhaps thinking way outside the box can become a box in it's own?

By the way, how can I search for something if I don't know what I'm searching for? Why do you beleive what you found as the truth over everything else? There are many theories, why beleive this one? If you could give me some ground to search upon, I certainly will.

You'd first have to define what you mean by box. Is it the level of openness of one's mind, or is it the level of AWARENESS of someone? In case of awareness, there are boxes within boxes, and upon breaking out of one box, we tend to find outselves in a much larger box, but still a box. In case of openness, it is possible to be absolutely non-anticipatory and open minded, though it is extremely difficult to achieve such a state on our level of awareness. Difficult but not impossible. Always try to raise your awareness as high as you can at any given moment, and try to surpass any and all boxes that you have that limit your mind. Your mind has only self-imposed limits, no natural limits.

And to answer your question, it's upto you. What do you want to know? If there's nothing that you're curious to find out the truth of, then you're fine just where you are! I'd suggest start at the beginning, with yourself. Stop lying to yourself, eliminate your own assumptions/beliefs, learn to be objective at all times as you remove subjectivity and stop judging. Try to deactivate the programs that render your mind entropic - programs that turn humans into reaction machines that react to different stimuli based on our programming (think society/socialising/life decisions etc), not conscious CHOICES. So the work on the self, as you can probably tell, is a very important part in obtaining knowledge. In fact, it is THE most important part. The 2nd most important part is the effort you put in to actually obtain NEW knowledge.

So what would you like to find out? About God? Aliens? Conspiracy theories? What?

With an open mind you can answer many of these things without much outside research, but just by thinking about this, though much research will be required to actually know the specifics and what is true for our current reality. Isn't learning fun?

I think how you perceive suicide will depend of your mood, wheter you feel depressed or happy.

If someone thinks he'll be a nuisance to people he cares for, he might commit suicide in an act of altruism, for the better of the whole. It must be a matter of perception.

Well, I was morely speaking of this "Truth" that you found that supposedly will make people lose their minds, or possibly commit suicide. What I was trying to ask (I was really tired) is...what exactly was this truth? You said to search, but I don't even know what the base of this truth was. Did it have something to do with the fate of the world; the creation? Did you just do a google search for "The End of the World?" heh heh (that's a joke by the way, I'm not that blunt). Sometimes I just think things are more simple than people make them. Some people will get so smart, they start their own sort of...circular logic you can say. Not saying this necessarily applies to you.. Anyway, I mainly just want to know what this truth is dealing with.

I really don't mean to be insulting at all, but I really don't like this assumption that your "truth" is the right one, and that people who stick to something that you see as simple is "ignorance". I don't agree with the people putting you down and saying that you probably don't have any friend just because of this.. Still, being open minded and intelligent, and having a different opinion from the majority are two COMPLETELY different things. You can be extremely close minded although your beleif isn't the same as anyone elses. That's not being open, it's having your own opinion. (I'm not saying you are though). I have a friend that beleives all sorts of stuff that nobody else does. He's always trying to tell me that he is right, and that me simply beleiving that maybe America's medical system isn't the worst out of all the countries is closed minded. He's close minded, his opinions just vary a whole lot from everybody elses, and he's always trying to tell them that he is right because his opinions are so much different, thus making him seem more intelligent.

I'm confused. What is this truth of yours actually based on? (I'm too impatient to read through this whole thing again. Though I did a couple of days ago)

You mentioned something about distractions being all around us. That we have to see past these distractions to see this "truth". How do you know that your "truth" itself isn't just another distraction??? Maybe I've misinterpreted something you've posted... maybe my memory just sucks...

You also said something about everything we know is based on lies and is useless. I've known this for quite some time. The truth I've come to is that we don't know anything about anything. You said that you had to erase everything you knew and then you were left with this "truth" of what is really going on. ??? Then there was something about "smokescreens" not created by gods, humans or aliens..... Of course humans had to have created these "smokescreens". It's not a conspiracy, though. (???) They created them because they were afraid of... something... the unknown maybe. (?)

Maybe I'm just confused... this whole "truth" thing is amazingly interesting, though.

Originally posted by God
I'm confused. What is this truth of yours actually based on? (I'm too impatient to read through this whole thing again. Though I did a couple of days ago)

For all who wish to know, they will know when they are ready and when they find it. Not a second before. You think I was searching something SPECIFIC when I found it? You cannot KNOW what it is before you find it, can you? If you SEEK TRUTH, you shall have it. Most of you do not seek it, and therefore do not possess it. It is THAT SIMPLE!

To seek isn't just to express curiosity. This is a LOT more involved than it appears on the surface. Your beliefs, assumptions, and daily lives are a contradiction to objective reality, but all is only lessons. First, one must stop lying to himself, and only THEN the unseen will be revealed. It's not that I don't want to tell you, as I already have. You've not SEEN it, because you have a shield of lies wrapped around your minds that must be removed, and only then will you clearly see that the truth was already in you, and was your entire lives.

Your programming literally does not allow you to see it, even when you look right at it. Have you seen hypnotised people be in the middle of a huge crowd, but because they were suggested that they are alone, they literally see NO ONE? This is absolutely the same thing. Learn to SEE, and you will. Asking questions like "What is it?" only demonstrates your stubborness to CHOOSE. If you want the truth, CHOOSE it.

You mentioned something about distractions being all around us. That we have to see past these distractions to see this "truth". How do you know that your "truth" itself isn't just another distraction??? Maybe I've misinterpreted something you've posted... maybe my memory just sucks...

How do I know, or how do YOU know? Let me ask you this, how do you know anything? Is there anything that you DO know for 100%? What would that be?

You also said something about everything we know is based on lies and is useless. I've known this for quite some time. The truth I've come to is that we don't know anything about anything. You said that you had to erase everything you knew and then you were left with this "truth" of what is really going on. ??? Then there was something about "smokescreens" not created by gods, humans or aliens..... Of course humans had to have created these "smokescreens". It's not a conspiracy, though. (???) They created them because they were afraid of... something... the unknown maybe. (?)

There are no Gods, only more advanced beeings that fool you into worshipping them as such. It has been like this for eternity, and forever remain this way - for those who are service to self, as we all are. You CHOSE this reality, you CHOSE to be ignorant, because this is where you FIT. If you wish to see the objective reality of what is really going on, then CHOOSE to see it. Once you make that CHOICE, you will, but NOT a second earlier.

Maybe I'm just confused... this whole "truth" thing is amazingly interesting, though.

I have another question for you. Why do you want me to tell you what this truth is? Why do you spend all your life in ignorance, then get on ATS and spend 3 minutes in curiosity about some "truth"?

Before you learn something new, do you know what it is? Do you know where you'll learn it? If not, then why are you asking me where you should look? Because I claim to have found it? Well I already answered that question about 1000 times didn't I, I told you precisely what you should do, where to look. The irony is, you do not see it because you do not wish to see it.

Without the work on the self, the removal of the wall of lies and the programming that has been placed in your mind, you will forever keep asking "WHERE IS IT" and will forever be blind and under CONTROL by those who do know it. Knowledge is power, and lies are illusions that create the illusion of power. You have been told you are free, which is a lie. The best way to keep someone chained and bound as a slave, is to make him believe that he is free.

Once you can see your own chains, and CHOOSE to break out of them instead of running scared back into your delusions, THAT will be the moment when you shall see, and NOT before. It's all about CHOICE.

I understand your frustration. Everyone goes through frustration and confusion, it is how one learns. There's nothing wrong with your situation or anyone elses, you are where you need to be. Once you learn enough and are then able to see your choice, you can then make it. Knowledge is ALL that you need to increase your free will. Knowledge is simply all that there is, and if you think there's anything else that you may ever possibly need for anything, you're lying to yourself. What could you think of that's NOT knowledge?

One thing, is I will not violate your free will. If you want the TRUTH, as opposed to the lies that are the only thing most humans see, you must seek it and find it. I can only help, but I can never tell you what it is. I'd be violating your free will, as I'd be depriving you of LESSONS that you need to learn in order to discover.

You do not skip to the 10th grade without going through grades 1 through 9. Even if I told you what is at grade 10, you'd not understand, nor would you really care for it. A 4 year old doesn't CARE about calculus, nor would he comprehend it. Neither would a monkey. There are those on this planet that have supreme knowledge, and there are those who use this knowledge to control EVERYONE ELSE on the planet, and also those who choose to not control, period. They share this with all who ask, when they ask. Asking is NOT an expression of curiosity, which is all that you merely did here on this forum. Asking is the personal effort to SEEK IT, and only THEN can you be helped by service-to-others forces. By screaming "I won't believe anything you say until you prove it" doesn't help anyone. No one is asking you to believe a WORD of what I say, this is where effort comes in to find out and KNOW on your part. Belief is to pretend to know, and is the reason most humans are in such a deep illusion.

You are asking me to teach you how to ride the bicycle, but you refuse to ride it. You can never learn to ride one without actually riding one. Not because I don't WANT TO REVEAL something or SHOW YOU, but because it is impossible for you to ride a bike, without riding it!

As soon as you really make the choice to ride this bike, I can be there to guide you and to teach you and help you attain it faster, but this is all I can do. No matter how much I ride it around you, you'll never learn to ride until you choose to do it yourself. I hope you understand.

I'd love to tell you absolutely everything that I know, but it will inevitably go in one ear and out the other, unless you CHOOSE to know it yourself. Curiosity is not choice. WILL is choice.

I never asked you what the "truth" was. I honestly don't care what you see the "truth" as.

I asked what it is based on. If all we know of the world are lies and deception... then this "truth" must be based on the same lies and deception. You get it? Even the act of "erasing everything you've ever known"... isn't that part of the whole deception thing?

As for my being ignorant... I'm simply trying to have a discussion here. That's what message boards are for. Did I touch a nerve or something???

And for the last time. I don't want to know what your truth is. I'm just wondering how you rationalize all this. When I asked you 'how do you know?'.... I meant exactly that BTW. I didn't mean 'how do I know', if I did I would have asked that instead of my origional question. And yes, there is something I know is 100% certain. WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING. That's the real truth, it's as simple as that. And by that I mean (before you twist my words) all our science, mathmatics, everything is bull#. It doesn't really mean anything.
2x2=4, right? I say who gives a #.


In your last two posts I have absolutely no freakin' idea what you're talking about. It's all matrix-related fluff really. You're the same as discussing something with some religious fanatic. They never say anything relating to what you're saying... they dance around it and spew religious fluff.

Advanced being???????!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
There are no gods, but there is an advanced being? Alright. Sorry to laugh... but I guess that could be possible, seeing as nobody knows anything.
So lets say that there is this being. Why would it want to control us? How does it benefit from 'programming us' and keeping us ignorant?

You're saying to get past the programming.. erase it... blah blah blah. Isn't the 'removal of the wall of lies' just another part of this so called programing???

When I said there's no space or time, think about it also kinda like this: When they insert themselves in the Matrix, they can go to any place instantly because the ENTIRE UNIVERSE of the Matrix, is located in ONE place. It's just DATA on a computer. So there is no distance, but to those inside there is. So that would (sorta) explain how space could not exist, but create the illusion that it does. The lack of existance of time I won't describe, but it's also very obvious if logically observed. Like someone else noted, physics might eliminate it entirely in a few years. Maybe.

Do you mean time as in our perception of time (hours, seconds, years, etc) or do you mean time itself. Our perception of it doesn't exist.... I can understand that. But time itself does exist. If it didn't wouldn't there be no change, movement, etc? I've never researched this...so... oh wait.... are you going to answer that by telling me I'm choosing to be ignorant because I haven't researched the physics of weither time exists. Then you'll continue on by saying... I can't tell you I can only show you.. yadda yadda yadda? If you are don't bother with my question on time Ignore this whole paragraph.

Now. The theory that time doesn't exist. Isn't that part of the programming? Isn't the advanced being manipulating you into believing this???

Now, if you discovered how, teleportation is very much possible. If you could understand this reality, your brain has absolutely no limits to how many "rules" of this reality can be broken. But first, you must learn how to break them. You can instantly teleport yourself to a distant star system, anywhere. Also, you can instantly teleport yourself to ANY time, "future" or "past", if you knew how. All knowledge is available inside your head, in the deep subconscious. If you can figure out how to extract certain bits, there are no limits to your mind's potential. Everything is possible, until believed otherwise

You've achieved this? You can teleport? I'm saying it's not possible BTW, just asking. And oh... please don't write paragraphs on how 'I'm asking you to tell me how to teleport myself to distant stars'. I'm not asking you anything except if you can do this. You simply have to write yes, or no.

I imagine if I started saying this, I'd soon find myself in a nice soft room with a straight jacket and 3 pounds of medication in my skull. I'd be going on major paranoia, schizophrenia, and just outright insane. I'm sure they have 35 more clinical conditions they can apply to me, they've been very busy coming up with clinical conditions for people who might open their mouth about even a hint of "truth" about our reality.

Why would you care if you got locked up in a mental institution??? I mean if...

Knowledge is simply all that there is, and if you think there's anything else that you may ever possibly need for anything, you're lying to yourself. What could you think of that's NOT knowledge?

You have achieved this knowledge... it's all you need... why do you care what happens to you next? Why are you worried about 'chonic depression'? Isn't depression the program/distraction/manipulation?

Once again, I'm not liking the way you refer to not agreeing with what you believe to be ignorance. You don't even seem to consider that maybe what you've found isn't true; that maybe, just maybe it's more simple than that. Just because something is complicated, and difficult to achieve, doesn't always make it the best or in this case, the truth. You seem very, very intelligent, I can tell by your grammar and spelling...But please stop referring to everyone else as ignorant. This is your opinion, and all we're asking is that maybe you share it with us, and we can consider it.

God, Sorry to contradict everyone here (Well it is a message board...), I agree with you on most of this, but not on the part that we don't know ANYTHING. We know some things, otherwise we wouldn't be surviving for this long as a civilization. Also, 2x4 and other stuff like that really does matter, it's the foundation of what we have built our cities on and other stuff. I could be wrong, maybe you're not referring to math, but it's pretty obvious my looking at our architecture that our math has mattered. By the way, my last post was directed at lilbalm .



This site rules, actually intelligent discussions... not "stfu u stupid no0b u dont no wat ur talkin about"

Its an advanced version of the game "I know something you don't know neener neener neener." The thing about it is that game always ends up with you already knowing the thing (when you're eventually told) or it not being true in the first place.

[Edited on 14-4-2004 by Cutwolf]

You know I read this whole thing. And I saw a lot of people being very nice and considerate. I also saw some, not as much as the others, but some who just told it like it was� Since this was the lesser of the 2 I will also take this side. LoL, nah , I would do it either way.

Ok, where do we start?

Ok to seek truth, like you said it so many, many, many to the power of 10,000, times, you must eliminate all possibilities. It will be my assumption that there are many you have not ruled out. Why, because you think you already have when you haven�t. Ok God for instance, I know what you are saying is incorrect because I know what I have seen, felt, and have had done for me. Ect.... Now you could say that "they" did it, or whatever, but the fact remains , that you have no proof, and yet while I don't have all the proof, I still have more than you. Now any logical person would go , ok well, since I have no proof, and he has a lot, or some "whatever your perception is" than I will at least try it this way, or investigate. You sir have not, you simply rule certain things out. For instance, we can all agree that we do not get acne because monkeys in Africa are farting down wind of us, then it gets carried over the Atlantic, on the massive air current, the monkey fickle matter is deposited in our pours. Is it a possibility? Yes, but we would never think to investigate that right? I mean we rule a lot of things out simply on the basis that we just don't "THINK" there is a chance of it being correct. Now you are following a premise that is based on nothing, why because you said your self that time does not exist, nor does God, or reality, but all of those have something around them to support them , yours does not. You are literally basing reality, future, past, and everyone on something you read on the internet, something that happened to a guy, or basically putting it, something written by someone else. Whose intentions you do not know. Look around, there is a lot of crap floating around, around in books, internet, TV, media in general, in peoples brains, life is all about sifting that crap put. And finding that gold nugget, that gold can be fun, enlightenment, love, the "truth" or whatever makes you happy. To base you whole life on something you read on the internet, is just irrational to me. Second, just enlighten us, I mean you are sitting on a pot of Gold right? You hold the truth, and only a handful of other right? So you are saying you are the smartest person in the world" Or one of the 5 smartest? Am I correct? Your whole theory of everyone being mindless sheep is insulting and otherwise ignorant, ignorant I know you like that word right? We are all big dumb mindless sheep who would run off a cliff if asked to. Right? How do you know that you are not a sheep, not a sheep fooled by a massively intelligent individual such as us, but a sheep fooled by a weirdo sitting behind a computer filled with conspiracies theories, that all contradict each other, and yet he believes all of them? If there is no truth, and no reality, and we are controlled, well then brotha, hate to break it to you, but since we as humans are in no way on the level of something that could pull off something so grand and so immensely inconceivable, then you would not be able to figure it out. Do you no why slaves were not allowed to learn how to read? I am sure you do, to keep them stupid so they could not fight back, but since not everyone wasn�t a slave, they learned by way of others. This does, and doesn't apply to your situation, it doesn't because you believe we are all controlled, hence there being no one to even teach us, but it does apply seeing how if you were correct then he would have the aptitude to keep you dumb, and you from figuring it out, and biggest of all, lol HE/SHE/IT/THEY... WOULD NOT LET IT FLOAT AROUND THE INTERNET. Come on man , come back down, I am sorry you felt so bad, that you almost took your own life, that sucks ass, and I would never want anyone to do/contemplate that. But I suspect you are strong enough to take criticism so I am just dishing it out nice and hot. Just come out and say it, what is it, inform us , we all want to know, what is it that you know that defines the universe. How is it possible that you have the ability to comprehend while others don�t? Please inform us. I have looked, and I have already found it, but it is not were you have pointed.

infovacume-

Ok God for instance, I know what you are saying is incorrect because I know what I have seen, felt, and have had done for me.

I think you might have me confused with lilblam. He's the one that came up with this whole "truth" thing.
Unless you're referring to my last post? (the one in response to lilblam calling me ignorant) I dunno... I just may be dense.

Come on man , come back down, I am sorry you felt so bad, that you almost took your own life.....

See? That was that lilblam guy.


Herman- I understand what you're saying. Hmm... it's quite difficult to explain what I mean.

But, unless you seek what I'm telling you... you can not understand. You are choosing to be ignorant by choosing to choose choices of ignorant manipulation. How can you learn to rape an elephant unless you actually go and do it... *add more gibberish*

(I'm just kidding about all that elephant stuff and the choosing to choose stuff)

Hmm. It's like our knowledge of things... as far as the entire universe goes... could probably fit into a grain of sand. But then again...how could we possibly understand EVERYTHING anyway......

My head hurts now...