[HOAX] Isaac CARET - Drones [HOAX]

Originally posted by chunder

Originally posted by Springer
chunder:

It is not my reponsibility to educate you. I have given you what you need to do the research for yourself, if you "don't have the time" that's your problem. Maybe you should use your eyes/ears more and your mouth/fingers less until you get the time?

Your "scrutiny of motives" means nothing when it's based on ignorance you are unwilling, too lazy or unmotivated enough to correct.

Especially when I have illuminated exactly what you are asking in this very thread.

This forum certainly DOES NOT need you directing its members on what or where to post or whether this thread is appropriate. You have been a member for TWO DAYS mate, maybe ATS is a little beyond you right now.

Why don't you go educate yourself and come back OR read and LEARN from the Memberhsip here.

Springer...

[edit on 7-1-2007 by Springer]

No you don't have a responsibility to educate me, I never indicated you did, I asked you to provide an explanation to your assertion that intel agencies could remove the info to a degree that it would never surface again and do it without arousing severe suspicion.

So far you have given your professional opinion that they can, because they have with ATS over someone's phone number, and told me to go and research this myself.

First off sorry to double post and with huge quotes but I think I know what you were originally talking about Springer but before I get to that let me just say that no one really on this board is OBLIGATED to provide info on statements or opinions and if they suggest you do your own research it isn't to be mean it is in my opinion to make you a more ACTIVE participant in the discussion and aware of your surroundings.


Now Springer were you talking about the recent article on how "The Government is a closet Ufologist"?
Link


I believe you are and if so you do realize the article talks about causing hoaxes to get real Americans who work for the government to provide national security information? I do not see how the Isaac documents or story can do such a thing.

For one thing there is no real way of talking to Isaac or a way of providing feedback unless you email Coast to Coast am, and a foreign agent would probably WANT feedback and discussion about REAL government projects provided to him.....though now that I think about it all a foreign agent would really have to do is monitor a discussion thread like this to keep an eye on any REAL information provided.....it seems like a far stretch though.



[edit on 1-7-2007 by SaucyRossy]

Originally posted by frailty

My main thought so far is that why would this hoax or whatever be linked to terrorism? The hoaxers or whoever wouldn't seem to have anything to gain personally or as a group by posting a complete hoax of this proportion on the internet.

What if terrorists, spies, non friendly intelligence agencies, etc... have historically used these topics and forums that cater to it for communication and raw data mining operations? Which they have, and your job was to monitor ALL "chatter" on the web?

You'd be interested at a completely different level wouldn't you? My last several posts have tried (apparently without success) get this point accross.

That's the "connection".

That, in and of itself, doesn't mean ANYTHING relative the validity, or lack there of, of this particular "tale" (CARET) at all. My only assertion has been that with this level of scrutiny upon this particular tale there would be more action if it were genuine "TOP SECRET MATERIAL", that is MY OPINION.

Does that clear it up any?

Springer...

SaucyRossy

YES!!! That article by Gus Russo is exactly along the lines of what I am trying to convey. I made the comment in a previous post that many of the "bigger' UFO hoaxes have been initiated by these "intel" types over the past 20+ years. That is typical (STUPID as it is) of the U.S. Government trying to DEFLECT attention from what it wants hidden.

That article is great starting point toward researching this bozarre aspect of Ufology.

Springer...

Originally posted by T0by
I didn't know people hate springer and ats.
I'd expect that the ones whos egos were shot down by him would hate him though. He doesn't owe us any kindness or tolerance, especially to those who may try to twist his words abit.

As he said, he's only presented his information as he's recieved it. I dont see anything wrong with that.

I've only seen him as a factual, up front guy who has no patience for bs.
I think he was only making clear what he did say and didn't say.

I agree.

Are we getting to a point that this "drone story" has made us all start to question each others common goal, (so I hope this is), and that is to get to the truth about the "drone's",together, in any way possible, as an ATS team?

If your a first time poster but a long time reader then you should know better then to post your trolling off-topic comments about other members and the ATS site in any thread. If you can't commit to the TOS then by all means do go back to those other site's forums you cherish and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I think SkepticOverlord said it best HERE especially the last sentence, and I'll quote ...

All we ask in return is that our members try to post good stuff, and be polite to each other.

Also, did we forget this so quickly

Originally posted by Springer
I will find out how much I can tell you and report back here by Monday then. There is no way I am going to risk this source's ire.

I truly don't want or intend to sound "cryptic" but these things are "delicate" in an ongoing investigation as I am sure you can appreciate.

Springer...

Did ignorance replace patience? Patience IS a virtue. Everyones questions to this whole situation isn't going to be answered at the snap of a single post. Let us all investigate, let us all learn, let us all get to the bottom of the truth with out turning against each other.

Back on Topic:
Any new findings about the drones? Please post them below, it's what this thread IS about. The so called "watermark" of the letter "T" on the Isaac documents to me seem suspicious. I have written an email to the GPO (Government Printing Office) manager of Quality Control and Inventory and asked them about the use of "watermarks" on Government documents in the 1980's. As far as I have researched and found, the only watermarks allowed where ones of the American eagle and they typically were small and in the corner of documents. Maybe this could be something or maybe not. I will post what I learn when I learn it.

I think I might of been on a soap box, but it is still all said IMO,
Bzzzzzzz

Yeah thanks Springer, I was pretty sure that is what you were talking about awhile ago.....was hesitant to speak up though.

It is a good starting point to what you are talking about, disinformation and foreign agents infiltrating the UFO discussion to data mine for real American secrets.

I still think this it is a far stretch that a foreign agent would do such a HUGE hoax as this to data mine.

It is possible though that is what is being done.

Originally posted by Springer

That, in and of itself, doesn't mean ANYTHING relative the validity, or lack there of, of this particular "tale" (CARET) at all. My only assertion has been that with this level of scrutiny upon this particular tale there would be more action if it were genuine "TOP SECRET MATERIAL", that is MY OPINION.

Does that clear it up any?

Springer...

Thanks, that clears some of it up, although by the same token different sections of different agencies monitor chatter, investigate fraud, provide disinfo, lock people up for a very long time and make Isaac's dissapear. Just because you may be aware of one interest doesn't mean you would be aware of the other.
If using language like the top intel available to the USG is looking into this then why not give a bit more detail, rather than telling me to go away and figure it out myself, couple of lines is all it took.

You can't have it both ways though, either the level of scrutiny doesn't mean anything regarding the validity or it does. That's just semantics though really.

The question then as to whether, if you had a site that hosted the Isaac document, you would pull it down if asked or ordered is a moot point. Because it now seems that's not where any investigation is headed anyway.

Now I'm going to go back and explore the Xerox angle further, I believe there may be pointers there to the veracity of these documents. If CARET was real with all that intelligence there you would expect to see some commercial applications developed.

"PARC DataGlyphs® are a robust and unobtrusive method of embedding computer-readable data on paper surfaces"

- is a standout to me, although I found this relatively quickly, so hopefully a bit more digging will find some more.

BO XIAN

Your last post truly encapsulates what I believe.

There is little the average guy (you and me) can do except collect the data and try to make sense of it. While I may have a slight advantage by way of my 1/3 ownership of ATS and its affiliates that "advantage" is SLIGHT, if it is an advantage at all.

You must know that I get inundated with hoaxes all day long. People would LOVE for me to prop up "their tale" to the millions of people who read these forums.

The fact is they should all just GIVE UP, I am not going to do it, they need to post it here themselves and let the Membership figure it out.

ATS' Membership has educated me beyond anything I've experienced in the 20+ years I've been fascinated with these subjects.

These incredible tales i.e. "CARET" are the signal, the thing we must do is distinguish between the noise and the data that comes through this signal.

BUT, as long as I have a say in what gets on ATS we will ALWAYS be OPEN to ALL the signal coming in, for we NEVER know when the "REAL DEAL" will cross our digital path do we?.

Perish the thought we were so closed minded as to have missed it when it came through!

The terms and conditions of this site are VERY SPECIFIC and only seek to moderate the TONE of discussion NEVER the topic (within the limits of the TAC, no porno, illegal stuff, etc... read them for more info).

That seems to rub alot of folks the wrong way but that's not our problem, it's theirs, the people who are so set in their belief systems that they can't even "hear" another signal will be left behind. There is no reason to EVER be afraid to change your beliefs when the facts warrant it. I have changed my mind on MANY subjects over the years as new and irrefutable FACTS and TRUTHS emerged. Those who cling to their beliefs in the face of contradictory facts and truths do so at their own peril IMHO.

I personally don't want to believe ANYTHING, I want to know it.

BUT, that's a VERY PERSONAL issue that only the individual can decide.

When I hear/read people say things like "this is just stupid and false" or "this is absolutely REAL disclosure" BEFORE all the data is in, I just figure they are very inexperienced/gullible or they have an agenda OTHER than finding the truth.

THANK YOU for posting and stay tuned because we never know what is coming next and we dam sure DON'T want to miss it!

Springer...

[edit on 7-2-2007 by Springer]

Originally posted by NGC2736
If the poster will not put forth effort, the he doesn't want to learn, and no amount of telling him facts will ever change that.

Well, until you become civilized, why not crawl back under your rock?

I was not presented with facts. In fact I was not even presented with answers to my questions.

I wouldn't call your last request too civilised.

As much as it pained me to have to post on something like this I will answer each and every criticism of me directly, or point out any obvious misdirections that apply directly to me.

If that isn't the done thing in this forum then please let me know.

I'm rather late to this thread. I enjoyed reading most of the posts. This topic is what ATS is all about. The original background source from Issac seemed solid but way out there. I believe aliens are out there but I don't think they have technology that is being described here. These photos seem like hype for a new movie coming out. I rather enjoyed the connection to the movie Transformers. I wonder if we'll see some of this alien language in the movie.

I just wanted to describe some movies that may have inspired this concept:

The Star Wars Saga has an invented language called Aurebesh
One instance of the written language was shown when Qui-Gon Gin told Anakin to turn around:


Since all the Star Wars movies have been released I don’t think this is the work of Lucas.


The other movie I wanted to mention is the movie The Dark Crystal(1982). There is an alien language, of some sort, surrounding the hovering crystal within the castle. It doesn’t look like the same type language Issac is showing, but the crystal hovers in mid air just like the alien drones.

Here’s a snap shot of the crystal chamber:



I found that picture from a Dark Crystal site hosted by Fortunecity.com
lavender.fortunecity.com...

You can view a high resolution image of the crystal chamber on that site if you want to read the alien characters better. I don’t think they mean anything. They probably represent constellations in that fantasy world.

This movie has a sequel coming out Spring 2008 and that is why I wanted to mention The Dark Crystal.
Check out the Wikipedia page on the new movie which will be titled, “Power of the Dark Crystal.”

en.wikipedia.org...

Here’s a fun creation from Youtube:
Search for the name "1 with the Dark Crystal" on www.youtube.com...

[edit on 2-7-2007 by lostinspace]

[edit on 2-7-2007 by lostinspace]

[edit on 2-7-2007 by lostinspace]

I finally got the chance to go over this with a friend of mine who is a hardcore Halo fan, has played both games ad infinitum, read all Halo novels and also is an official Halo beta tester (and I am not talking about the now closed public beta, but the closed beta team). While he, like me (I also played Halo 1+2), sees some vague similarities with some Halo artwork, he is absolutely convinced that this is neither official or fan created Halo viral marketing, nor part of the Halo ARGs.

Does anyone know of any one source page, does ATS have a single CARET page yet? I mean like all this info organized and put on one page?
I just wanna rip it off for my page j/k not but I just wanted to know because I don't always have the time to read every post and maybe I missed the one post that did a good job in disproving or proving something thanks.

Originally posted by Springer

Originally posted by frailty

My main thought so far is that why would this hoax or whatever be linked to terrorism? The hoaxers or whoever wouldn't seem to have anything to gain personally or as a group by posting a complete hoax of this proportion on the internet.

What if terrorists, spies, non friendly intelligence agencies, etc... have historically used these topics and forums that cater to it for communication and raw data mining operations? Which they have, and your job was to monitor ALL "chatter" on the web?

You'd be interested at a completely different level wouldn't you? My last several posts have tried (apparently without success) get this point accross.

That's the "connection".

That, in and of itself, doesn't mean ANYTHING relative the validity, or lack there of, of this particular "tale" (CARET) at all. My only assertion has been that with this level of scrutiny upon this particular tale there would be more action if it were genuine "TOP SECRET MATERIAL", that is MY OPINION.

Does that clear it up any?

Springer...

Thanks for the clarification Springer. It would definitely make sense that they could use this general demographic of UFO-related website to collect information on the populace and communicate with people in their organization.

I know all about the "chatter" monitoring. My father did intelligence work for the military back in the day. He still won't tell me any of exactly what he did, but I've got the gist of what it was and how it somewhat works.

But I think the important thing you are saying is that if their was genuine top secret information present, things would have been taken a lot more seriously and the feds would taken action swifter, and people would have probably not gotten a chance to see it.

So the terrorist connection makes more sense, now. My questions would have to be why would they use UFO-related websites? And why would they get into getting into UFO hoaxes? I know you may not able to answer these questions.

Doesn't make much sense, unless they are just trying to undermine the populace's belief in the US government at the same time, as reaching this demographic or whatever for data mining. Also, maybe something like this would create more chatter on the internet as for their messages to get through.

As always the conspiracy theorist, I also wonder if it a possibility that government got caught with their pants down, and created an elaborate plan to prove these thing don't exist.

All in all, this may be the scariest things I have seen posted on ATS:

"What if terrorists, spies, non friendly intelligence agencies, etc... have historically used these topics and forums that cater to it for communication and raw data mining operations?"

So are you implying that a site like ATS could be created and used for data mining and communication by "terrorists, spies, non friendly intelligence agencies, etc?" So how would I know that ATS itself wasn't created by one of these nefarious groups?

I was just wondering. I am not accusing ATS of anything.

If I get banned for this, I guess I have my answer. LOL!

All the supposed "viral marketing" connections to Halo 3 and Transformers are flimsy at best.

I think the BIGGEST nail in the coffin for this viral marketing theory is that "Isaac" states this:

"One thing I can definitely say is that if they wanted us gone, we would have been gone a very, very long time ago, and we wouldn't even have seen it coming. Throw out your ideas about a space war or anything silly like that. We'd be capable of fighting back against them about as much as ants could fight back against a stampede of buffalo. But that's OK. We're the primitive race, they're the advanced races, and that's just the way it is. The other advanced races let them live through their primitive years back in their day, and there's no reason to think it will be any different for us. They aren't in the market for a new planet, and even if they were, there are way too many planets out there for them to care about ours enough to take it by force."

Clearly, if this were viral marketing for some "alien conflict" product, it would HYPE and promote the idea of warfare with aliens. But no, Isaac states that it's not a remote possibility.

So PLEASE, drop notions of this being viral marketing.

It is either a clever hoax or it's real.

I'm going to attempt to research the motives of hoaxers. Has there been any sort of pscyho-analysis done on hoaxers? Perhaps if we gather common traits, we can see if Isaac/Chad fits the bill.

The eagle watermark is a strange but interesting correlation - I said earlier if you alter the gamma and saturation, there appears to be the 'American Eagle symbol' at the edge of the page (I posted the picture near the start of the thread, just use the 'thread' tool under my post to find it).

That seems more logical to me than a bloody great disjointed T for a government paper. The T is also not equal in density - the outside edges on both the vertical and horizontal parts are much more dense in the middle, like something was rolled over the paper and it has a strange crossweave pattern when you look very closely.

The only thing I will say that makes me think this thing is real is the fact that every time I look at any of the symbols straightened out I feel sick, every single time without fail, and that makes me wonder. The one person who posted the drone pictures said he and his wife also felt ill after coming in contact with the drone - perhaps it wasn't the antigravity device, it was the text (although in theory according to Isaac, the text IS part of the antigravity, so...)

Its too weird to ignore and the only reason I'm still interested really, otherwise I'd probably put it down to some guys fooling around with models or government disinfo.

PART 16

A COMPREHENSIVE STUDY

Alright, well I have formulated a lot more ideas and thoughts on what I think this COULD be. I can't remember the last time I have sat at a computer for at least 16 hours or more a day for 7 days straight. I think everyone has had some valid points in here, and I think it is being discussed in a very constructive manner, unlike the prior CGI battle.

There are so many things I have seen in the past 7 days, thanks to ATS, all of us members, and the members' posting of links to other websites. I have seen tens of hours of video footage of everything from UFOs to NWO and the Bohemian Grove, read through hundreds of pages of various threads, written with pen and paper at least 30 pages of notes and dictations, and posted at least 50 - 100 messages in this thread alone. You can say I've been keeping myself busy.

I haven't gone into any more of my multi-topic posts, because it would just add more conjecture and speculation and I think this topic has grown way too important to go down that road anymore. I think that this is going to unfold on such an unfathomable level, it will shock people into the reality of their world and the secrets that have been kept from them for so long. I never realized the rabbit hole went quite so deep. Bear with me here as I have a lot to say.

Based on EVERYTHING I have seen in the past week (and I never knew it would get this complex), I strongly feel like this is beginning of government dissemination of information in a very precise, calculated, and coordinated manner. As Springer mentioned, if it was deemed top secret by the government it would have been gone by now, and as you all know it is still very much still running. Therefore it is either an elaborate hoax as many here have said, or it is real. I have stated over the past week exactly why I have thought and felt it to be real, so there is no need to rehash that element of it. As a calculated effort by secret government agencies, there could be many parts of this story (such as the drone photos) that are genuinely authentic, while others such as the diagrams or photos contained in the CARET report could be false. I think their mission, as a slow dissemination of evidence, is getting a feel for how much we can take and are prepared to take, and how much we will try to debunk no matter what is put in front of our faces due to our belief system.

I would now like to direct your attention to The Disclosure Project. If you
have not seen it, I suggest you do. It is 2 hours of video and can be accessed here:
The Disclosure Project
Many of it is featured in Jose Escamilla's UFO: The Greatest Story Ever Denied, but the actual press conference is certainly preferable. I am bringing this up because I find that the testimonies of some, if not one person in particular are relevant to the topic at hand and where our discussion in this thread has been building up to.

(continued in next post)

[edit on 2-7-2007 by pjslug]

PART 17

(continued from last post)

Dr. Carol Rosen, one of the women who will swear under oath before congress to what she has heard (as will all of the people giving testimonies), had a sincere admiration for a man you should all know well. Dr. Werner von Braun was responsible for some of the greatest achievements ever in the field of rocketry and space science. She claims that the following was said to her by him (I have not dictated this verbatim, but from memory): The weaponization of space is of great concern and is something that must not happen. First the government will say that we need to weaponize space because of the Russian threat. Later they will say we need to weaponize space because of the terrorist threat. After that will come the threat of asteroids. The final card they will deal will be the extra-terrestrial threat.

Frankly, this scares me to death. And what scares me more is the fact that we are doing, and have in many ways done this. I saw one of the NASA videos and it showed a particle beam weapon being fired from inside our atmosphere at a UFO. This should be of concern to everyone. (They shouldn't be called UFOs because they are identified and we know what they are. The CIA spearheaded the word UFO to throw the public on a mental wild goose chase.) I saw videos of dozens of UFOs hurdling around a teather from the space shuttle. I'm sure most of you have seen these videos. How about all the testimonies of the men that have worked at nuclear missile silos and have witnessed UFOs overhead, and moments later their nuclear arsenal had been disarmed? How about the one where the UFO shot a beam of light at a dummy warhead on an Atlas missile test and it fell to Earth? It is no wonder that the powerful U.S. government would have national security concerns. But why can't they see the good in this?

We should be grateful that races of beings are protecting us from ourselves, if this is happening. They are obviously without hostile intent, or we would have been long gone by now. They realize the humans are still in their primitive adolescence and are being patient. But like Dr. Stephen Greer says, just how patient will they be? We had two turning points in our history with regards to becoming a cosmic civilization. The first was with the detination of the first nuclear bomb (Trinity), and they had really started to notice us then because it was no coincidence why they landed in Roswell. The only nuclear arsenal at that time belonged to the 509th bomber squad. The second turning point was when we had put a man in orbit. Once we started putting satellites and weapon platforms in space, they knew that we could be a threat to them as well.

(continued in next post)

[edit on 2-7-2007 by pjslug]

PART 18

(continued from last post)

But there are two camps of people now. There are those who believe these beings are benevolent, which they have only proven to be thusfar and we should have no reason to think otherwise. And then you have those trigger finger sects like the American military who either genuinely believes they are, or they just want to make the world think they are so we can rally beside them and throw more money at "their" cause. Ultimately, each one of us will have to decide who we are going to stand beside. Will it be a power hungry and corrupt "new world order", or will it be the ones who are trying to usher us into an intergallactic Type 1 civilization? There are those who believe that these beings are collecting DNA banks of all the flora and fauna on this planet to re-seed someplace else centuries from now because of the looming potential catastrophe ahead. We have to now ask ourselves seriously as a species, are we prepared to destroy our planet and eachother? I think the alternative is certainly the brighter prospect, especially with all the technology that we
could actually be using right now. Imagine what it would be like to travel
among the stars. When you think of a future such as that, why would we choose to deny ourselves of it?

So now I'm getting back to something Springer had said. He mentioned the terrorism threat/UFO hoax/July 4th scenario. Well there could quite possibly be a reason for that. He has a responsibility to himself, and to us, and that is to make sure a portal such as ATS continues to pass along the flow of information. He is dropping hints into our laps and wants us to form our own conclusions because it is obviously good for us to formulate our own theories, and also because there is only so much he can say. He has told us that higher agencies are monitoring and watching what people on ATS say, especially this thread. He wants the truth to be known, but to be divulged in such a way that he is not responsible for the site being taken offline. In my opinion, that is the cautious thing to do and best course of action to take with regards to ALL of us.

Many of you keep mentioning this idea that it is a viral marketing campaign, and while I can speculate that it is not, you have some valid arguments. With what Springer has said, why then could July 4th be a special date? Well, let's think about this for a second. If the government is trying to convince the people that there is a looming ET attack around the corner (which is only for the benefit of the higher elite), what campaign could they dump on us that could trigger a response in such a media-hyped society? Well in my opinion, they could do so in a way that makes us tie alien fact to alien fiction. And what better way to do that with a false flag? How many of you remember one of the biggest blockbusters in movie history, Independence Day? It was a movie about an attack on an alien civilization, on a day where we once again have to fight for our independence. They know most people have seen this movie. They know most people realize that July 4th is the day we celebrated our independence. What if they were using this day in our history to propogate an agenda? I couldn't think of a better day to do so. And while I certainly hope this isn't the case and don't think it is, it is a speculation that can't be ignored.

(continued in next post)

[edit on 2-7-2007 by pjslug]

PART 19

(continued from last post)

So where do we go from here? What are we going to do with the information we all know and have been privy to for so long? Are we going to continue with Dr. Greer's goal of ultimate disclosure to the people of the world as we should, or are we going to sit idly by while the U.S. government keeps a leash on America and the rest of the world until there is nothing left to protect? Abraham Lincoln said that as responsible citizens of a democratic society, a government must be overthrown by the people if it has become unjust and is no longer democratic. I fear that this time has come and we must globally act to protect our planet and ourselves, and move towards the goal of being a known presence in the universe that is capable of magnificent things.

I think the T "watermark" is a part in the scanners lid that is bleeding through. I used to have a scanner that had a gizmo to scan negatives, if you didnt close this thing with a white lid after you used it, you would see a very similar artifact on the scans you make if those were single sheets of not-too-thick paper. I am aware there are scanners that have multiple gizmos like this in the lid for different formats of negatives. This is most likely the case here.

Originally posted by pjslug
PART 16

As Springer mentioned, if it was deemed top secret by the government it would have been gone by now, and as you all know it is still very much still running. Therefore it is either an elaborate hoax as many here have said, or it is real.

[edit on 2-7-2007 by pjslug]

Good work and well presented.

Just regarding above I still can't see how, if it was deemed top secret by the Govt, they could remove the story and or the documentation without arousing suspicion.

Obviously I have no experience in that area and no amount of research I do is going to compensate for the 20 + years of experience many on this forum would have in that field. I would welcome an explanation from anyone as to how this could be done ?

Admitting my total ignorance in that area I would have thought that easier to debunk and discredit after the fact or even just totally ignore. The latter would be my call, especially if there was any truth in it at all, but that would run the risk of being seen as a form of disclosure.

There was a lot of information provided by Isaac when you consider the content of most supposed "smoking gun" documents. There must be something in there that can be checked and verified or discredited so will keep looking.

PS Has someone gone back and deleted a few posts of a particular nature from this thread or can the posters delete it themselves ?

[edit on 2-7-2007 by chunder]