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[HOAX] Isaac CARET - Drones [HOAX]

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posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by osaitax
PsykoOps,
I'm sorry, where do you see that "Isaac" has sent physical paper photocopies to Linda Moulton Howe?


Oh yeah you're totally right I remembered wrong
But well the point is kind of the same, he could've taken new copies recently for some reason and we never know untill we ask him. If he scanned newer copies he just shows he's not picky about the quality.




posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by Springer

While I appreciate your expertise in rendering you are way off base in this one...

One million page views a month is nothing...

I guess it's something if you have no overhead and $300.00 a month hosting bills but C2C doesn't and they are making MILLIONS off the radio show and certainly don't need this to drive traffic to the website.


1,000,000 page views a month is worth about $2,000.00 a month at a $2.00 eCPM, so when you consider they are making millions off the radio show how is it worth $2,000.00 a month to take such a risk of being discovered?

It's NOT.

The hoaxer (assuming a hoax) will be found out, you wouldn't believe WHO is looking into this if I told you.


Springer...


Springer first let me say that I respect your opinion and I am just proposing a theory. Frankly it seems to me this is a hoax, now I am still open to the idea it isn't but here are some thoughts I had posted earlier (with some additions and edits) about the Coast to Coast connection.

It all leads back to Coast to Coast am
1. The original Chad photos were sent to coast to coast.

2. The only person to talk directly to 'witnesses' of these drones is Linda Multon Howe who does exclusive reports for Coast to Coast and dreamland.

3. The Isaac story and documents were sent to coast to coast. Isaac claims to be a listener and to have seen the drone pictures on the coast to coast website originally.

4. Directly under the drone explanation story on the Coast to Coast website is an announcement for Coast to Coast doing a live show at Roswell for the 60th anniversary.
www.coasttocoastam.com (or it was)

I am not saying coast to coast is in on a hoax but I am also not saying they aren't I am just trying to point out that all of this seems to go back to Coast to Coast am.

Now a little background, I have been a listener for a long time and I really don't think Art or any of the other hosts would take part in a hoax but are the suits behind c2c am above such a thing? If it means more ratings? I don't know.

On how Coast to Coast is doing:

In short the show is not doing that good...well I don't want to get to detailed but basically George Noory's book was a commercial failure, his television pilot seems to of not been picked up by the Sci Fi channel, and he has become increasingly aware of the amount of people who don't like his hosting style and threatened to sue the Fantastic Forum for some comments made about him even though his suit would be thrown out of court.

Do I personally think that George Noory would take part in a hoax like this? NO. I don't think he would, he is a good person and would never do that in my opinion.

Are the other people who work under and above him willing to take part in a hoax? I don't know, I would surely hope not but it is possible.

Would they do this to receive more 'hits' to the website? Yes and no. More hits from people who have never heard of coast or people who never took the time to listen means more POTENTIAL listeners and it also means that it could spike the ratings.

Also Springer, it is very possible that Premiere Radio looks at the amount of visitors to the website as a good barometer on amount of listeners. Arbitron like other rating systems is not the most accurate way of judging how many people listen to the show.

Another thing Springer, Coast to Coast offers a PAID subscription service for people who want to download shows, etc.
The more people who go to the site the more potential subscribers.
Also about the subscription service. I had subscribed for a year and a half and I just recently canceled it but I am definitely not the only one before I canceled there had been numerous posts on the forum there about others doing the same thing because they were unimpressed in the direction of the show.


Thanks,

Saucy



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 05:59 PM
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I have doubts about a Mythbuster's connection. I suppose they could be investigating hoaxing but it doesn't fit well within how the shows are organized. If outside of a show episode, I would think that they stand to lose a lot, like maybe the show.

Maybe this whole darn UFO coverup or convenient cover is actually true.



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by bricmpt
I, too, have seen an example of the "writing" found on these artifacts. I have wondered what it was for years and now, at least, I have some idea. Neat to find this thread and the link to the document images.


Are you serious? Where, and on what? Would you care to elaborate?



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 06:28 PM
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The mythbusters are seriously being considered as the perps by the people on this discerning forum? Cmon. I like the mythbusters, I think the show is entertaining, but they are just carpenters, 2x4's and duct tape ya know.

You really have to look at the big picture and try to 'profile' who the hoaxer really is (if a hoax of course). A forensic profiler would have the basic outline and general frame of who the hoaxer would most likely be, to a degree of uncertainty, and it would be a high probability of correctness. Things like age demographics, location of origin, education, hobbies, profession, motives, demeanor etc would all be able to be determined to a high degree of certainty.

I highly doubt that the 'mythbusters' would be on that list!



[edit on 7/1/2007 by greatlakes]



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 06:29 PM
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SaucyRossy:

Those are some DAM GOOD POINTS you made.

I was merely commenting on the fact that 1,000,000 hits is NOT worth the risk of being found out ever. There was also some very wrong information about what 1,000,000 hits is worth and I wanted to correct that.

Premier Radio is a huge company and, IMHO, they would never allow this if they were told about it. I guess there is a possibility that some of "the guys and gals" working for and selling the show could have dreamed this up and ran with it.

There is also the possibility it's real.

At this point all ANY OF US can do is speculate, but it seems horridly crass to me to speculate that a radio show, its webmaster (who I have had dealings with and is a stand up guy) and the personalities who bring these topics to the airwaves would sink to such a LOW level.

Does that mean it's impossible? HECK NO.

I just don't think it's very probable.


Springer...



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by Mekanic
Bo Xian, I think Linda has "beer goggles" when a ufo case comes up. Like a drunk at bar close, she see the "beautiful" ufo story that sounds really good.


That's not how she came across when I and another FREEPER met her a year ago . . . when we asked her quite a number of questions over a significant period of time very face to face between sessions at the UFO conference.

Whenever I've read her reports and interviews, that's not how she's come across.

I'm not a flawless psychologist in all respects. But I"m also not a total idiot judge of people on those scores. If I had to bet my life on her interviewing and people assessment skills--I'd go with her judgment, typically.

I do not know what MIGHT be her . . . associations and connections any more than I know Whitley's. Lots of people allege lots of things. God only knows.

But all things being equal, and GOING ON THE EVIDENCE Linda M Howe presents herself . . . in terms of my assessing her as genuine and well above average in her own people assessment skills--I think she's in the top 3-7%--even considering my colleagues.

Yes, she has some passionate biases. She's extremely hostile to President Bush. She SEEMS to be hostile to the NWO folks though her values also seem to be very NEW-AGEY. Interestingly she also wears a crucifix and seems to treat it with a fetish mentality. I don't think she has much awareness of the incongruencies involved in all that. And, I doubt she could be easily persuaded of them--her biases are so strong in those areas.

Nevertheless, she still comes across tome as well above average in assessing people as genuine vs feeding her a well crafted line.

I also think that Coast to Coast knows one or more of the real names but I'm not 100% positive of that.

It is interesting that she has collected the vast number of such reports. Not sure what that means. She's also one of the most tenacious ferrets around in such matters. There may be a connection.

If I had a personal experience . . . I'd probably consider her in the top 3 folks in the field to consult with, inform, divulge to. Stanton Friedman might be first.

Do I think it's possible for her to have some grandiose "halo-effect" response to a UFO phenomenon, case? Lots of things are POSSIBLE. I consider it highly unlikely compared to a long list of other folks in the field who'd be far more likely to have such a halo-effect response.

I think it's entirely possible for this whole DRONE thing to be a very calculated strategy to condition the public in the ramp up to the predicted war with ET. Actually, I think it's probable.

It may well be that a wide diversity of authentic witnesses consider LMH to be the most easily accessible and credible . . . perhaps and experienced researcher that's comfortable to trust, talk to, relay info through.

As I recall, she had a very trusting relationship with the NM Senator who engineered the GAO review of the field. Schiff?

I realize there are plenty of questionable mysteries about this drone business. At the moment, I just do not expect wholesale hoax across the board to turn out to be the explanation that fits all the data points.

Unless . . . we are talking about the ongoing hoax the government has been perpetuating for 60+ years.



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by chunder

Originally posted by Springer
Chunder,

You need to do lots of research on how unfriendly intelligence agencies use the internet.
Heck, even "friendly" intel agencies.

I'm glad you decided against trying to hoax ATS, it really is useless.


Springer...



Springer, I'm sorry, it's not my area of expertise. I imagine that even with a lot of research I probably wouldn't understand it, and I doubt anyway that the interesting stuff is readily available.

That being the case, please could you offer an explanation as to why my argument doesn't hold water. How would intel agencies go about shutting this story down ?


Springer, answer the question directly or face coming under the same scrutiny everyone else does regarding motives etc.

I don't have time for the research and you obviously have the information. An internet forum is a place where information should be shared. If it's a big subject just summarise so I get the gist, I'm asking for help, not trying to ridicule.


All, this whole thread seems to be dissolving into lunacy. Next we'll hear Jack Bauer shot David Copperfield who was working for Mossad but it was all a hoax for an up and coming reality show from Mark Burnett.

If you want to speculate endlessly on who could be behind it if it is a hoax, go and start another thread. Unless you can provide some kind of evidence, no matter how small, your conjecture is irrelevant.

Also to whoever said the drones pics are the place to look, they aren't, not in terms of the veracity of the CARET documents anyway, which is what this thread was about.

To the person who looked into the watermarks thank you, that is the kind of work that should be done here.


[edit on 1-7-2007 by chunder]



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 08:55 PM
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Taking it down, requiring any "big sites" to remove it from their content would contain it to the hard drives of the first few people who saw it within the first 24 hours


You are much more . . . connected and experienced in a list of ways than I am in all this.

However, I don't think the above would be true IF the whole drone phenomenon is some scripted, engineered, staged incremental disclosure thing.

And/or . . . taking such stuff down off a site, after it's already spread around the net, would possibly be MORE CONFIRMING than the powers that be were REALLY interested in being at this time.

1. It seems to me that the drone is a kind of ideal size sort of thing.

2. It's not as intimidating as a full fleged UFO.

3. It's not got wierd little creatures inside of it with eager anal probing tools and habits.

4. Doesn't seem to mostly inhabit neighborhoods where most people live . . . but mostly frequents forests, power lines etc. Again, less threatening than a mile-wide triangle hovering 30 feet over the block where kids play on sidewalks.

5. It's all intricate and scientific looking and acting but enormously mysterious--a great curiosity for a wide diversity of personalities.

6. It comes in a wide variety of models which are roughly quite similar yet very curiously different.

7. A real normal cross section of witnesses are reporting seeing such things over a wide geography. Again--more or less comforting vs some ID-4 awesomeness.

8. It tweaks interest and curiosity without getting off into the evil government and abductions, probings, crashes, shadow government etc.

9. Consumer uses again sounds like useful and 'everyman' friendly. Not some 60 years long dark destructive military function, purpose.

10. It's sort of the cuddliness of R2D2 with all his scientific techy "personna" yet with mysteriously 'magical' properties that also seem to be technological and yet maybe more than 'merely' technological. Or, at least--more than, beyond R2D2 technology. There's a lot of attractiveness currency in all that.

I think in short--it winds folks' interest and curiosities up without overwhelming them with threatening destructiveness and fearsome stuff. Not a bad entree towsard 'outting' the whole phenomena.



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 09:35 PM
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chunder:

It is not my reponsibility to educate you. I have given you what you need to do the research for yourself, if you "don't have the time" that's your problem. Maybe you should use your eyes/ears more and your mouth/fingers less until you get the time?

Your "scrutiny of motives" means nothing when it's based on ignorance you are unwilling, too lazy or unmotivated enough to correct.
Especially when I have illuminated exactly what you are asking in this very thread.

This forum certainly DOES NOT need you directing its members on what or where to post or whether this thread is appropriate. You have been a member for TWO DAYS mate, maybe ATS is a little beyond you right now.

Why don't you go educate yourself and come back OR read and LEARN from the Memberhsip here.



Springer...

[edit on 7-1-2007 by Springer]



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 09:53 PM
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BO XIAN

Excellent points and they may well be valid.We don't know yet, all I can do is the same as everyone else, speculate. My "insights" into what the "big boys" are interested in has nothing to do with the validity of this tale.

The funniest part to me is the value some folk (not you mate) automatically put on the things the intel lads are looking into. It's their JOB to run every trap, guess what percentage of what they chase turns out to be of ANY value?



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 09:54 PM
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So, I have been reading Springer's posts and everyone else's thoughts one the developments with an open and analytical mind. BTW, thank you Springer for sharing your knowledge of what is happening.

Here are my thoughts on these developments.

First off, I am supposing that Springer's knowledge of these development's is accurate when writing this.

Ok, so there is an investigation into this by top level intel and federal investigative forces. This may or may not be a hoax, but whoever is responsible for terrorist charges and it may be connected to the upcoming 4th of July.

My main thought so far is that why would this hoax or whatever be linked to terrorism? The hoaxers or whoever wouldn't seem to have anything to gain personally or as a group by posting a complete hoax of this proportion on the internet. If an anti-government group was behind this what do they think they are going to gain for their cause? They are not going to gain anything for their cause, unless their cause is disclosure. But then if that is the case, why would they be considered to be doing anything even remotely close to "terrorism."

What do they think that faking UFO documents are going to whip people up in to a frenzy so much that they are going to commit terrorism? Because this is hoax it doesn't seem like any real terrorism "psychological" or otherwise. Perhaps, the terrorists think that maybe this hoax will work in a way so that people won't be ready for their terrorist attack on the 4th of July? This doesn't make any sense unless the terrorist have drones of this quality currently, which I don't think is a possibility at all.

My conclusion, through deduction, is that is that this site and these drones, even if the hoax this probably contains some highly sensitive information. Especially, if the top federal guys are working on it. If this was just some random hoax I don't think that the feds would be working on it, as a possible terrorist activity. Maybe it does involve a little, bit of treason if this person/persons had a high-security clearance in divulged sensitive information. No matter what this doesn't seem like any "real" terrorism. Just goes to show you how big our government's rulebook is now.

Also, what the heck could have to do with the fourth of July? That doesn't make much sense, unless they going to reveal more documents, I don't see how this could have anything to do with a violent terrorist attack.

Who know maybe the government know something we don't and maybe their is the possibility of more UFO encounters on and around the 4th of July?

Or maybe this is when they "false flag" alien attack?

Or maybe this has nothing to do with the 4th of July, and it's just flat out disinformation? This may be the best possibility.

If this were an media campaign or ordinary hoax, I do not think they would have the top federal guys on it. It doesn't make sense.

I would take from all of this that some of the materials presented may be fake, but some sensitive information may have gotten out onto the net. Maybe the drones are real and "Issac" or whoever had some knowledge of their technology and created some fraudulent documents and photos.

Or it could be that the majority of all this and real, and the government may try to make it look like a hoax. I just don't see how this could be hoax or anything by C2C or any other program to gain viewership, because with my working knowledge of media, marketing and advertising. That just doesn't make BUSINESS sense.

One thing I do know now. The government probably heavily watches the internet and board like this.

I guess we'll see how this develops.



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by Springer
chunder:

It is not my reponsibility to educate you. I have given you what you need to do the research for yourself, if you "don't have the time" that's your problem. Maybe you should use your eyes/ears more and your mouth/fingers less until you get the time?

Your "scrutiny of motives" means nothing when it's based on ignorance you are unwilling, too lazy or unmotivated enough to correct.
Especially when I have illuminated exactly what you are asking in this very thread.

This forum certainly DOES NOT need you directing its members on what or where to post or whether this thread is appropriate. You have been a member for TWO DAYS mate, maybe ATS is a little beyond you right now.

Why don't you go educate yourself and come back OR read and LEARN from the Memberhsip here.



Springer...

[edit on 7-1-2007 by Springer]


No you don't have a responsibility to educate me, I never indicated you did, I asked you to provide an explanation.



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 10:25 PM
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armchair, while Springer my have seemed erupt, we are all about learning, not spoon feeding. This is a forum for mostly adults, not a nanny day care.

Now I question just as much as anyone, and I certainly cannot be called a toady. But, you miss the point. If the poster will not put forth effort, the he doesn't want to learn, and no amount of telling him facts will ever change that.

So you can join up just to chew on people here? The only thing that motivated you to do more than watch from the shadows was the chance to put out a wee bit of poison?

Well, until you become civilized, why not crawl back under your rock?



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 10:37 PM
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Without giving my final own judgment of the CARET story, I'd like to remind everyone here that both Art Bell/C2C and LMH have in the past been actively promoting hoaxes or false info against better knowledge. Just a few examples:

C2C:
Dr Reed case (I still laugh my ass off over this)
Hale-Bopp Ufo
....

LMH:
Brasil Urandir fake abduction case
various cattle "mutilations" cases where there were perfectly normal explanations, like the deer 12ft up in a tree
.....

I am not even beginning to list Whitley Striebers failures here, like in most other stories he is again just a sidekick of someone (in this case LMH). When the guy wrote communion and Majestic i had some respect for him, but now he is just another crackpot hunting for your hard earned cash, and dont forget to join his wonderful subscriber section, he needs you, (more than) you need him.

[edit on 1-7-2007 by casketizer]



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by Springer
chunder:

It is not my reponsibility to educate you. I have given you what you need to do the research for yourself, if you "don't have the time" that's your problem. Maybe you should use your eyes/ears more and your mouth/fingers less until you get the time?

Your "scrutiny of motives" means nothing when it's based on ignorance you are unwilling, too lazy or unmotivated enough to correct.
Especially when I have illuminated exactly what you are asking in this very thread.

This forum certainly DOES NOT need you directing its members on what or where to post or whether this thread is appropriate. You have been a member for TWO DAYS mate, maybe ATS is a little beyond you right now.

Why don't you go educate yourself and come back OR read and LEARN from the Memberhsip here.



Springer...

[edit on 7-1-2007 by Springer]


No you don't have a responsibility to educate me, I never indicated you did, I asked you to provide an explanation to your assertion that intel agencies could remove the info to a degree that it would never surface again and do it without arousing severe suspicion.

So far you have given your professional opinion that they can, because they have with ATS over someone's phone number, and told me to go and research this myself.

I am neither unwilling, too lazy or unmotivated to correct anything I have posted if it is ignorant. I have been asleep. If you believe you have answered my query by saying that ATS removed a phone number when requested and that other sites would remove the Isaac document if asked nicely then fair enough, you have answered my query. Are you then saying that if you hosted the Isaac document you would remove it if asked ? Or would it take an enforcable order ?

I ask you these things because I believe it is relevant to the main topic of this thread.

I accept the forum doesn't need me, don't worry, I don't have that high an opinion of myself. I also don't have the power to direct what people should post, it was an opinion and nothing I can say can stop people posting whatever they like anyway. Other readers can choose to ignore me completely. The point I was trying to make was that speculation without any shred of evidence is pointless..

I have only been a member for 2 days, but have checked this site and read many threads over many years. Maybe ATS is a little beyond me, either that or I am a little beyond ATS, time will tell. How long you have been here, how many points you have and what your track record is, is less important than what you have to say and each post should be judged on it's own merits.

I am reading everything and learning some things, trying to educate myself and was actually asking for your help in doing that.



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by Springer

The funniest part to me is the value some folk (not you mate) automatically put on the things the intel lads are looking into. It's their JOB to run every trap, guess what percentage of what they chase turns out to be of ANY value?



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by Oddone
Thank you armchair_gallery_member I can't agree more. I guess I am seeing the reason so many people seem to hate Springer and ATS in general on many forums around the internet.

Don't worry about it Chunder, it seems this is defiantly a bad environment for any type of real investigation. Especially if Springer would rather be condescending to its members.


I didnt know people hate springer and ats.
I'd expect that the ones whos egos were shot down by him would hate him though. He doesn't owe us any kindness or tolerance, especially to those who may try to twist his words abit.

As he said, he's only presented his information as he's recieved it. I dont see anything wrong with that.

I've only seen him as a factual, up front guy who has no patience for bs.
I think he was only making clear what he did say and didn't say.



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by Springer
SaucyRossy:

Those are some DAM GOOD POINTS you made.

I was merely commenting on the fact that 1,000,000 hits is NOT worth the risk of being found out ever. There was also some very wrong information about what 1,000,000 hits is worth and I wanted to correct that.

Premier Radio is a huge company and, IMHO, they would never allow this if they were told about it. I guess there is a possibility that some of "the guys and gals" working for and selling the show could have dreamed this up and ran with it.

There is also the possibility it's real.

At this point all ANY OF US can do is speculate, but it seems horridly crass to me to speculate that a radio show, its webmaster (who I have had dealings with and is a stand up guy) and the personalities who bring these topics to the airwaves would sink to such a LOW level.

Does that mean it's impossible? HECK NO.

I just don't think it's very probable.


Springer...


First off thanks for the compliment (unless you were being sarcastic!) and like you say it is just speculation.

Also you are right Lex is a really good guy and a great webmaster. I was not implying that some one like him is in on the hoax or even any of the producers are in on a hoax. But let's say they realize it is one? Let's say they have a inside knowledge that it probably is all fake but are more or less not saying anything to the people that are sending them this info because it is good publicity for the show and the website and well they aren't directly involved with it they are just the messengers?

That is just a theory though.



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by armchair_gallery_member
Springer, your reply to chunder got me motivated to register and comment on this thread after following it for the past week.

I think that your answer to chunder was rude and insulting to him and any of the other ATS forum users. Youe replies in this thread hint that you know more about this story than the rest of us and then when someone asks you to come clean you dress that user down? What a hypocritical attitude from one of the senior operators of this forum.


I am sorry you feel this way... Your assumption that I know more is wrong, how many different ways can I put it?

I have done my best to explain what I do know, ways to research the rest and I simply don't have the time to type out 20 years worth of research in this thread.

I'm sorry if that makes me seem like a jerk but it's just how it is.

Springer...



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