Police Clash with Protesters in L.A.

Thanks Centurion,

I am getting tire of having to accommodate for people that has not right to be in this country and at the same time seems that they are enjoying more rights that we legal American citizens does.

We pay taxes, we get to live by laws and is OK for somebody that is in this country illegally to do as they please and them protect them when they brake the laws that we law abiding citizens have to obey.

I don't get it.

[edit on 3-5-2007 by marg6043]

You are absolutely clueless and filled with hatred marg.
There's nothing factual or impressing about your replies and attitude.

Just blatant refusal to see what is really going on.

Same goes for centurion who gives compliments about your non-factual opinion.
Why don't you go on giving compliments to eachothers replies/opinions.
It sure makes your posts more "credible"...

[edit on 3-5-2007 by osram]

Originally posted by osram
You are absolutely clueless and filled with hatred marg.

You have no clue about what I am or not, I am a SPANISH born citizen, and I am clueless because I am a legal resident of this nation and should be agreeing with illegals?

You miss the entire point.

You want to be a citizen, do it the right way by lawful means respecting the laws of this country.

I have not problem with people that comes from all over the world to be an American

Then you can enjoy our constitution and all that comes with it.

Sorry but you may lose some right while the others that took the fast way get to protest while you can not.

But what is going on with the immigrant protest is nothing more than an agenda to give free pass to anybody from across the border and for many to be no hard working bodies but a burden to tax payer and social services.

La gente es my ignorante cuanto no entiende los sentimientos the otros porque no son los mismos the ellos.

Deny ingorance.

"Then you can enjoy our constitution and all that comes with it."
What a wonderful consitution.

Thanks alot but i can enjoy corporate fascism in my own country. Although probably in the US corporate fascism and abuse is more obvious and more enjoyable.

Sobretodo me sorprende que no puedes mostrar compassion con gente q al parecer tienen similares experiencias como tu mismo. O alomejor solo pretendes tener una idea de estas situaciones.

What i refer to is not the topic of the demonstration. What i refer to is the fact that the government clearly supresses our right to gather and express our opinion peacefully. No matter what topic the protest is about. That's the important problem.

I also doubt that they are granted a "free-pass" to become a legal citizen by participating in a demonstration. The message they want to pass.. is something different. And that's not the topic at all.

check out my own thread about police brutality. Check out the videos about corporate media.

At least i give a try to post some facts. You on the other hand defend the police which assaults protesters. But the government actually WANTS cheap labor and immigration. They want general distraction through the immigration problem. And you are exactly one of those who has that opinion and thoughts which they want people to have.

This is a strong contradiction.

I am not blindly PRO immigration. I am in some topics pretty to the right too... Don't misunderstand my opinion.

But contrary to what you think, those individuals are not the problem

When did it become part of the Constitution to incite rioting, throw bottles at police and knockin one from their motorcycle. This type of action by the illegal population is what causes the hardline Conservatives to write it off as 'the natives are restless' and the hardline Liberals to cry Facism.

Look at the bigger picture and realize no one was killed. Remember the rioting in Boston where the young girl was killed? That was a celebration. This was a coordinated effort by a few to abuse authority. They were asked to disperse. They did not. What other choice is there?

So the next time someone walks up to you, takes you car keys and drives off in your car, just let them do it since according to the logic seen in some posts it is protected under the Constitution. Crime that is.

IF you Wanna see police brutality, check out a soccer match in South America or Europe that goes bad.

Police did not clash with protestors, they responded. The Protestors clasehd with police.

La compasion yo la he demostrado, mientras he trabajado in el estado the Georgia come maestra the espano y al mismo tiempo ayudando familias inmigrantes con ninos the edad escolar.

Yo se lo ques el sufrimiento the estas familias que las corporaciones y los duenos the plantas agricultoras usan como si fueran exclavos.

Pero tambie se como pueblos alrededor del que yo vivo se han degradado con la cantidad the imigrantes que en muchas ocasiones no son del tipo trabajador y more del tipo que prefiere hacer dinero criminalment.

Tambie he trabajado con officina the abogados que se expecializan en leyes the inmigrasion.

Is two ways to get in this country the legal one and the illegal one, the second one is not the right one and I will never agree with illegal immigration in this country.

BTW Yo soy Puertorriquena.

Police did not clash with protestors, they responded. The Protestors clasehd with police.

Esdad

You would be singing a different tune if police 'responded' to you. What most people don't seem to understand is that this isn't simply a case of protest against immigration. Police brutality is being seen at every turn - against students, anti-war demonstrators and anyone who doesn't toe the line or sing from the same hymnal. Why close your eyes to it because you don't like the people it is happening to? It is YOUR country. The one that is supposed to be the home of the free and brave. The one with all those freedoms that people are always going on about.

Where is the anger amidst all the rah, rah, rah of police brutality? If you let this happen now and turn a blind eye everytime it has nothing to do with you, there won't be anything left for you to defend.



[edit on 3-5-2007 by nikelbee]

When I was 26 I was involved in an arrest where my nose was broken and the cops the beat the hell out of me. MY crime? My girlfriend at the time had lost a younger brother a few weeks earlier and attemtped suicide. They attempted to Baker act her and in the process she grabbed onto me. As soon as she touched me, they grabbed me, starting yelling " calm down" and proceeded to beat the hell out of me. (I am about 6'4, 220 so they had fun and could justify it) .HIt me so hard in the face with his knee, while on the ground, it broke my glasses and my nose. To this day I do not smell the same. I reported it to IAD and nothing happened. That is police brutality.

Throwing bottles at police is a cause for a show of force if a large crowd does not disperse when instructed. Comparison and perception are strong words.

I am not force a police state, but I am also not for riots.

Police brutality has been the norm for 50 years. It doesnt matter what color or race you are, they view themselves as above you because they enforce the law, you abide by it, and will treat you like you are below them.

It happens because we allow it to happen, there will always be people who will make excuses for the police, who they think are our wholesome protectors there to keep us safe.

For anyone without experience with the police, I can perfectly understand why you would think that. For you people living in quiet suburban middle class neighbourhood with a white picket fence and a 3 car garage, with parks and fountains and gardens, then yes I can perfectly understand why you do not see the worst of the brutality where you live.

Its the people in the cities who have to bear the brunt of the abuse, simply because, city folk are seen as more rowdy and more chaotic than the suburban folk. Its the poor people, the working class people, these are the ones who get sucked off the most. They wont stop a Mercedes Benz in a rich neighbourhood unless a black person was driving it.

This is the reality of the police\civilian relationship in urban areas. I have a friend named Ken who is training to be a police officer, you know what they teach the cops in these academys? They teach them that everyone is a criminal, its just most havent been caught yet.

They are teaching the cops that everyone is guilty until proven innocent, a complete flip flop from the American standard of innocent until proven guilty.

This is all federally planned. They want to destroy what America is, they want to control you, and they cant control you if you are free.

So, we are gonna see police in black uniforms in the school campuss, at ballgames, on the streets, you are gonna have to go thru checkpoints to pass, just like in Iraq and in Nazi Germany and Communist Russia.

Soon, you will not be able to walk down the street, its almost like that here where I live, soon we wont be able to walk down the street without some fat bellied police officer asking us for our "IDs". Just like in Nazi Germany with "can we see your papers sir", to prove you are a good citizen, its gonna be "can we see your ID sir" to prove you follow the rules.

Cant we see, America is turning into a Police State. Everywhere in the Western world, we are seeing a Police State evolve, with cameras everywhere, and cops in dark ski masks. In Florida, some of the SWAT people even wear skull masks, I mean this is getting sick.

Have you noticed that more and more now, the police are starting to dress like the Military? They are being armed with bullet proof vests, tear gas, pepper spray, huge automatic machine guns, with visors and helmets and dark black masks, with boots and body armor, and in New York they already introduced "sound wave weapons" to deal with large crowds of people. I mean some of these police officers are better equipped than the infantry we are sending to Iraq!!

They already are looking to ban the PC act which bars the military from engaging in law enforcement activity. They are trying to merge the police with the military.

Look throughout history, where have you seen the military and police dressing the same? Where in history do you see the military becoming the police? Places like Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, and Communist China. The Police State was the foundation for the tyrannical control of those States, and we are headed for that in the United States.













[edit on 3-5-2007 by LightWorker13]

Marge I agree with everything you have said

And I agree that the people at the rally started it first (strayed into a park and instigated the police) "antagonized" was the right word

HOWEVER...

I find this to be absolutely appalling, the police attacked (female) camera and news crew. Yes attacked, at one point a FOX camera woman was beaten in the back of the legs (apparently, hard to discern where exactly) making her fall down, the police walk right on by, while the news woman tries to help the lady up, she gets pushed away.. several cameras ended up on the ground that day.

News Crew Attacked

This is essentially the only thing I had a problem with, that and several people standing in a tent not associated with the violence where shot with rubber bullets (those things hurt!)

I also think it is out of hand ot abuse media and helpless people but this is a fraction of that happened and as the police cheif stated they have hours of video. It will be intresting to see what comes out in the coming days to show why the response was as it was.

AS far the Police dressing like the military, have you ever lived in a urban area? They are armed better than the cops in some instances and in any situation you must prepare for every contingency.

I agree Rockpuck, but you know what is going to happen, that the police will be target here, while the instigators of the riot and the ones that cause the police reactions will be nowhere to be found.

At the end who will win?

They "strayed" into a public park, and the police responded by beating and shooting at people. The protestors had a "protest zone" they had to be within? What the hell is that. And when they leave it, the police are allowed to move against the people??

That is sick, cant you people see that? That is not right, its not supposed to be like that in a free and democratic country.

The right to protest is slowly being taken away. Now protests are limited to "protest zones", they never were before. I believe they are actually called "free speech zones", certain places where you have free speech??

You can say whatever you want as long as it doesnt challenge the people in power. Once you do, you are severely limited in what you can do, and they take advantage of that.

The right to assemble is also being closely regulated by the Federal Government, and that should not be in a democracy.

They will give you the excuse of riot control, but when has a riot ever broken out? Never they never do, you know why, because people dont riot unless its to fight back against tyranny with revolutions.

Thats what the "riot" police are there for, just in case any of these little munchkins get smart, and start to see that they are being controlled, and if they start rising up, and revolt, thats it, we gotta move on them. Thats what its for.

These people arent there to riot for god sakes, they are there to support a cause and give a message they passionately believe in. That is dangerous to your government, cant you see that? They want people going along with whats happening, not fighting back!

The cops are the most brainwashed of all, they think theyre doing good, and are on these sick power trips. They dont know they are being used by the State to keep the people under control, and to keep them tame.

Anti-war rallies, immigration rallies, all of these kind of rallies are very threatening to the States control, for people might get angry enough, and if that happens, they will revolt, and the control is lost. They must make sure, at every single protest that ever occurs, they have to make sure that they have their riot squads there to make sure this doesnt happen. They take no chances, and its NOT TO KEEP US SAFE. They dont give a damn about your safety, they never have.



[edit on 3-5-2007 by LightWorker13]

LightWorker13,

Yes is laws regarding how, when, what and where you may be allow to protest.

The First Amendment protects peaceful, not violent, assembly. However, there must a "clear and present danger" or an "imminent incitement of lawlessness" before government officials may restrict free-assembly rights. Otherwise, the First Amendment's high purpose can too easily be sacrificed on the altar of political expediency.

The government can not restrict protests or parades or other lawful assemblies in order to censor viewpoint because it dislike them.

Only when the protest limits traffic, cause congestions and interfere with other activities it can impose limitations, or when the protesters turn into rioters.

So learn your rights and what the High court has done to preserve them.

www.firstamendmentcenter.org...

The people was told to leave, a group of people turn against the police, people got hurt when the police reacted against the danger.

Did the police over reacted?, or the people that got hurt was just caught in the middle of something that they could not control after they decided to stay and disobey the police.

Originally posted by greatlakes

Please post your source for us that they were throwing things at officers, I have not seen this information?

Here's a news article that talks about the officers having items thrown at them.

The clashes started around 6 p.m. Tuesday, when police tried to disperse demonstrators who moved into a street, according to rally organizers and reporters. Authorities said several people threw rocks and bottles at officers, who used batons to push the crowd back to the sidewalk and then cleared the park.

A police order to disperse was in English and from a police helicopter, a likely ineffective tactic because of the noise and because many at the protest were Spanish-speakers, Bratton said.

Bratton said police were initially trying to deal with 50 to 100 "agitators."

"The individuals were there to provoke police," Bratton said. "Unfortunately, they got what they came for."

Fox News

Here on the west coast there has been daily video footage and the media is all upset ove the treatment of the media involved. Some of the footage does show LA PD pushing on a media person with a camer ... it would appear they are pushing as he walks away ... but the entire footage of it shows him stopping and turning around several times. IE, not following an order to disperse.

I wasn't there personally and it's hard to come to a conclusion based on the short video clips being shown. The article says demonstraters went into a street and when they were forced back onto the sidewalk items started getting thrown at the PD.

Even the department admits the majority of the people were peaceful but there were about 50 people creating a problem and therefore they needed to shut the event down. When bottles (or whatever) started getting thrown from a crowd it's almost impossible to know where it is coming from.

And to not shut down an event that is getting that far out of hand will only allow the agitators in the crowd to rile up the entire crowd and possibly start a riot.

The right to demonstrate and march around town is allowed only if things remain peaceful. It sounds like this event was allowed to continue to the point things were no longer peaceful.

Normally when you attend a large public event you can tell when things are getting out of hand. Definitely if you observe people throwing things around ... it's time to go. Yes, even if your innocent, you may want to leave before things get ugly.

I've been in a crowd that turned into a mini-riot ... I left 20 minutes prior to some idiots lobbing beer bottles at police and trying to shove a concrete planter down on top of the police from a balcony. I left because I could tell the crowd was wound too tight and getting ready to clash. Large crowds make people feel anonymous and they start to do things they wouldn't normally do if they were by themselves on the street corner.

I would like to state, I am a citizen of the US. I do live on the border with Mexico. I can definately state the following with a degree of authority and certanity. For starters I do not mind immigrants, and infact welcome them if they were entering into the country legally. However, these protests were for the ILLEGALE IMMIGRANTS. As they are NOT citizens of the US and are under no obligations to this country, they should not be afforded the same protection as a citizen of the country. Nor should we treat them with anything less than the basic human rights that should be afforded to all people. However, for those who support the illegale immigrants and are citizens of this country let me ask you this: Would you work for less than min wage, knowing that the labor you do is what no one else would do, say scrub a toliet, flip a burger or be out in the sun for 10 hours a day, with the chance that you have no rights if your employeer walks over your rights, and or can fire you at will, as there is someone else willing to take your job? And you have no medical insurance or able to access the basic services that most of us who are citizens take for granted.
Here again, we jump on the police, but if I may play the devils advocate, before you scream about them, how about you look through their eyes. They are out there trying to protect us. How many people have ever been the victim of a crime? Or knowing that at any moment they could be killed in the line of doing their job, apart from the military? How tense or stressful is your life? The police do a thankless job, as you are quick to call them when you are wronged, but if they step out of line you jump and scream at them for not being perfect. Well the reality is they are human and they do have problems that they have to deal with. And they can not tell you in situations where there are large crowds who are the people egging them on, any more than the next person. I am just surprised that this did not explode earlier in the protest as it did. I have been following this on the news, and the police chief states, that yes there were those in the protest who were wrong and the police response is equally wrong. Personally I think the entire protest is wrong in itself, as it is to support those who did break the law in the first place.'

Just my thoughts.

Originally posted by nikelbee

Do you know many immigrants driving gas guzzling SUVs? With three or four cars parked in their garage, cooling a large house and heating a pool? It is too easy to blame other people for domestic issues. Do something about illegal immigration. Write letters. Sanction companies that are breaking the law. Elect better people. Improve relations with other countries and help them strengthen their policies. Protest even. Police violence isn't helpful in any case and malloting people over the head is not the answer.

Sorry to say it is so, but I can show you a street full of people that basically meet your above description. They live in brand new 2400 sq. ft homes (how's that compare with what you have?) with Cadillac Escalades and F-250's (plural) in the driveways. I can also put you in touch with a guy that does customer service on new housing projects near here. He will tell you how they scam us by having the wife claim to be unmarried with kids to get welfare - which they use to buy the fancy vehicles. The men's wages are used to pay for the housing, etc. The C/S guy knows about this scam because the illegals love to brag about it. That's right, they have it sweet and they're laughing at the rest of us. And BTW, these people are in these houses for much less than I had to pay as part of a "deal" between the builders and lenders to move the houses and pay down the builders financing loans.

This is the real illegal immigrant world out there. Not the one the media likes to paint in order to play on the sympathies of all the "bleeding hearts" in the U.S.

So, sorry, can't bring myself to even consider feeling sorry for any of these people.

[edit on 5/3/2007 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by LightWorker13
Have you noticed that more and more now, the police are starting to dress like the Military? They are being armed with bullet proof vests, tear gas, pepper spray, huge automatic machine guns, with visors and helmets and dark black masks, with boots and body armor, and in New York they already introduced "sound wave weapons" to deal with large crowds of people. I mean some of these police officers are better equipped than the infantry we are sending to Iraq!!

[edit on 3-5-2007 by LightWorker13]

Police are equipped adequately in order to deal safely with criminals. Remember situation like the LA BofA robbery ... before most Calig Agencies had AR-15's (assault rifles). A group of 4 men kept a hundred officers at bay and luckily no civilians or officers died in the process.

Yes sometimes the SWAT team may end up at the school if there's a lockdown and report of someone with a gun. Maybe it was unfounded; maybe it was a youngster goofing around with a bbgun; but what about the one time it's a real call, you don't want one or two officers there un-prepared. I would prefer the police appear to look like the military and go home at night rather than have them dress like Mr Rogers so people feel comfortable and don't have to think about the violent world we live in.

This reminds me of complaints I've heard after local police responded to a silent/holdup alarm at a bank or other business. Citizens and sometimes even the business involved complain that the officers are all setup around the building, hiding behind their vehicles with long rifles and AR-15's deployed. Well duh ... what do you think they do, walk right into the middle of a possible armed situation??

Crime and violence exist everywhere, even in quiet suburbia. I work/live/commute in a suburban, rural environment, consisting mostly of smaller cities 20K to 60K with many agricultural fields around. In the last 5 years I have personally known 3 officers that died on the job (in this rural, agricultural area). Situations like that tend to make officers wary of individuals they approach and contact ... it's a human condition.

-------- duplicate post, sorry.

[edit on 5/3/2007 by SmallMindsBigIdeas]

I've watched many in the riot police to provoke the protesters just so that they'll have any excuse to move in on the crowd. This happens all the time, cant say if it happened this time. They find that one guy who pushes the officer when walking by, go after him which then leads to protesters seeing this and defending their friends which leads to all out attack on the crowd. They always lose. Any excuse will do for police and any single individuals actions are a valid excuse to disperse otherwise peacefull demonstrations. Sad.