Originally posted by blue bird
Point is: Questioning . Simple as that.

Years before - there was a mantra that there is little chance for water to be on planets in our Solar system - and now we are witnessing that almost all of them (including some moons) are suggested to have water.
Regarding Mars - there is even a speculation ( official one) of a 'snow' on its south pole.

I am highly sceptical person - but these images are very interesting IMHO.

Questioning what? As far as the water argument - who exactly confirmed the existance of water on other planets, including mars? As I remember it - it was "official" sources, IE NASA and other astronomical agencies and parties who have access to images, data, and information LONG before us (IE. The masses) have access to them.

Again, as I stated before - what exactly is the point? If there was life on Mars, as I stated before - I'm pretty darn sure we'd already know about it. Especially if there were any remnance of ANY kind of civilization. So what we're really talking about here is vegitation or microbial life. Well - i'll stake my money that the same people who discovered water on other planets before me, will assuredly find vegitation and life before me, thus this endeavor is pointless. Because in all realitly, I'm betting that none of us have the capacity to obtain a sample of mars (anything on mars that a sample can be taken of) and test it under the rigorous and scientifically complex tests to positively determine the existance of microbial life on said planet.

Unless all you really want to accomplish is -
"nana NASA I told you so!"

I don't have a problem with exploration and the aquisition of knowledge. I embrace it. But this is not it. If you really want to find a conspiracy here, try looking INTO the agencies that intrepret the data and present it to us rather than trying to beat them at their own game. Because unforuntely, as stated earlier, THEY are the experts. The masses believe THEM not us crazy CT'rs.

It's only a suggestion.

- zeeon

Originally posted by zeeon

Originally posted by blue bird
Point is: Questioning . Simple as that.

Years before - there was a mantra that there is little chance for water to be on planets in our Solar system - and now we are witnessing that almost all of them (including some moons) are suggested to have water.
Regarding Mars - there is even a speculation ( official one) of a 'snow' on its south pole.

I am highly sceptical person - but these images are very interesting IMHO.

Questioning what? As far as the water argument - who exactly confirmed the existance of water on other planets, including mars? As I remember it - it was "official" sources, IE NASA and other astronomical agencies and parties who have access to images, data, and information LONG before us (IE. The masses) have access to them.

Again, as I stated before - what exactly is the point? If there was life on Mars, as I stated before - I'm pretty darn sure we'd already know about it. Especially if there were any remnance of ANY kind of civilization. So what we're really talking about here is vegitation or microbial life. Well - i'll stake my money that the same people who discovered water on other planets before me, will assuredly find vegitation and life before me, thus this endeavor is pointless. Because in all realitly, I'm betting that none of us have the capacity to obtain a sample of mars (anything on mars that a sample can be taken of) and test it under the rigorous and scientifically complex tests to positively determine the existance of microbial life on said planet.

Unless all you really want to accomplish is -
"nana NASA I told you so!"

I don't have a problem with exploration and the aquisition of knowledge. I embrace it. But this is not it. If you really want to find a conspiracy here, try looking INTO the agencies that intrepret the data and present it to us rather than trying to beat them at their own game. Because unforuntely, as stated earlier, THEY are the experts. The masses believe THEM not us crazy CT'rs.

It's only a suggestion.

- zeeon

Why are you on ATS?
And can't you just enjoy yourself, look at pretty pictures and maybe.. a little wondering and then go do something else?

I'm not after a conspiracy, nor do I have a need to say nana NASA I told you so.

zeeon, absolutely nothing is forcing to you even read this thread. If you don't like it please do stay out of it, we wouldn't mind really.

Blue bird, please continue with your thread and your beautiful pictures. Those of us who enjoys them appreciate your efforts.

Originally posted by selfless

Blue bird, please continue with your thread and your beautiful pictures. Those of us who enjoys them appreciate your efforts.

Thank you selfless!

Originally posted by zeeon
I don't mean to be condensending, or ignorant - but guys, what exactly is the point of this endeavor?

If there was life on mars - It would be such a discovery that I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt the government would be able to cover it up. [/qoute]
Why? Who else has been there to disprove them?

Do you expect to look at a forest on mars then *POOF* all of a sudden a martian appears before you and says "Guess what bro! You found me!" Come on!

How about basic life forms, fungus? Who said anything about a martian? It seems that you wish to turn this into something comical as opposed to a serious search for life.

It's all there is. You can sit there all day and hypothesize - but where will that get you? A free ticket to fantasy land and no closer to the truth than if you had just gone to sleep and dreamed it all. I'm not being closed minded at all - I'm being realistic.

Not sure what you mean here since Da Vinci, Aristotle, etc.. all were considered crazy during their time

please, although Mr. Expert was indeed rude and condensending - he has a VALID point. I ask all of you who consistantly post threads about "OMG LIFE ON MARS" to re-think your position and ask yourself honestly - what am I going to achieve by making yet another thread on supposed life on mars.

that depends on how many more strange pictures from Mars come into light without a plausible explanation. The problem here with people like you is that you make comparisons based on what you already know and you stop there. THe opposite of that is called thinking outside of the box, or trying to derive theories about something based on information that may or may not be recognized by the observer.

I hear a lot of bashing from people like you who offer no explanations as to what is not, well if its not trees or shrubs then what is it? What formed it? That alone should sound an alarm in your head. I hear many people claiming what its not,but no one claiming to know what it is. That right there is enough for me to look into this a little further, at the very least I won't be completely caught of gaurd when the anouncement of biological life on mars shakes the foundations of everyone elses reality.

Originally posted by David2012
Why are you on ATS?
And can't you just enjoy yourself, look at pretty pictures and maybe.. a little wondering and then go do something else?

I'm not after a conspiracy, nor do I have a need to say nana NASA I told you so.

LOL Here we go ! Why are YOU on ATS? Last time I checked this was a conspiracy related website! If you just want to chit-chat and marvel at pictures of Mars why not go to BTS?

Originally posted by selfless
zeeon, absolutely nothing is forcing to you even read this thread. If you don't like it please do stay out of it, we wouldn't mind really.

Blue bird, please continue with your thread and your beautiful pictures. Those of us who enjoys them appreciate your efforts.

You know what forgive me for expressing myself. It frustrates me to see such talented and knowledgable people waste precious time in life searching for proof of absolutely nothing. By nothing, I mean proof, because if you did find something, you can't prove it! Logically, this is what it comes down to!

We, of this website, obviously have open minds, or we wouldn't be here. I'm asking you guys to think of a larger picture, instead of waste time searching pictures of mars. I've seen a plethora of threads on this subject recently - and I find myself asking - what does it amount to? NOTHING! ARG frustration is a killer.
So if you don't want to take my suggestions, fine, don't. But I can and I feel I should point it out. If it offends you, it wasn't directed personally.

Originally posted by kleverone
I hear a lot of bashing from people like you who offer no explanations as to what is not, well if its not trees or shrubs then what is it? What formed it? That alone should sound an alarm in your head. I hear many people claiming what its not,but no one claiming to know what it is. That right there is enough for me to look into this a little further, at the very least I won't be completely caught of gaurd when the anouncement of biological life on mars shakes the foundations of everyone elses reality.

My friend, the problem with you, is that you think your going to solve some mystery, or you're going to save the world, or going to do something else significant - with WHAT? How are YOU going to find life searching sat images from mars? How am I going to find life on Mars?
WE my friend, are not. The most that we can do is hypothesize, and wait for the experts out there to confirm those hypothesis. This is the reality of it.

Do you own a scientific labratory with the required instrumentation and observational tools necessary to discern life? I think not. This is the basis of my point here. None of us do. If you would stop taking my posts personally, and start thinking logically, maybe you would agree with me.

and lol - the discovery of biological life on another planet will not shake the foundations of my reality. I already believe in life beyond our own planet. I, for one, realize that I do not have the capacity to prove it. I, instead, look for conspiracies of known information that could have been covered up to prove the existence of such ET's and our contact with them.
While some would construe that as futile (as it well may be) atleast the *possbility* of discovering the truth and providing proof of such is there.
There is no such promise in an endeavor such as this. That is also my point.

zeeon, why can't you just appreciate the pictures for what they are.

A mystery.

Originally posted by zeeon
You know what forgive me for expressing myself. It frustrates me to see such talented and knowledgable people waste precious time in life searching for proof of absolutely nothing. By nothing, I mean proof, because if you did find something, you can't prove it! Logically, this is what it comes down to!

Can't prove it right now. Does that mean we should stop? Should Aristotle have stopped? How about Alexander Grahm Bell? Or Tesla?

Even if what this post states is 1/10th truth then its merits immense attention. Zeeon, do you stop something the first time it doesn't work or do you investigate it? Try to find other ways or possibilities? If inventors and scientist had gone about things the way you propose we would be without electricity, plastic, fiver optics etc....

Aww screw it... NASA said that there is nothing to see hear, move along! Lets just forget about it. Hey, whats on TV.

Originally posted by zeeon
and lol - the discovery of biological life on another planet will not shake the foundations of my reality. I already believe in life beyond our own planet. I, for one, realize that I do not have the capacity to prove it.

You do have the capacity to prove it, you just fail to see it. The photos show strange anomolies that are unexplainable. This would require an explanation, something that NASA does not want to discuss. WHY? NASA needs to acknoledge these anomalies and until they do so then these threads are the only way of bringing attention to the subject. Maybe its true maybe its not, buts its that objective search that may shed light on what I believe to be a POSSIBLE COVERUP. It certainly would not be the first so why should it be the last. But if its easier for you to close your eyes then so be it. At least I know I made the effort, and by that I mean investigate for my own.

Ok guys in the spirit of the ATS motto, let's deny some ignorance here.

There have been numerous posts claiming that NASA/ESA has edited alot of these photos etc. At the very least it's been proven that most of the images have at least been color-corrected or enhanced in some matter. Now we are sitting here discussing whether or not these formations are trees or not based on NASA photos. Photos that could be doctored.

Now take it back another step. Our logic says that oxygen and/or water is needed for most organic life. Assuming that's true, there is still a chance that this is indeed the case on Mars. Why?

Think about where the information about the composition of Mars' atmosphere came from in the first place.

That's right, NASA.

I believe if there is any type of cover-up of anything on Mars it goes way back to the first probes that sampled the Martian atmosphere.

Now I'm not saying there is indeed a breathable atmosphere on Mars, or even one that's capable of supporting life. But just remember those evil people that are lying about STS objects and editing photos are the same evil people that gave us our knowledge of the Martian atmosphere in the first place. Food for thought.


EDIT: apologies, I believe this has already been touched upon in this thread

[edit on 4/8/2007 by Fiverz]

Originally posted by kleverone
Can't prove it right now. Does that mean we should stop? Should Aristotle have stopped? How about Alexander Grahm Bell? Or Tesla?

Even if what this post states is 1/10th truth then its merits immense attention. Zeeon, do you stop something the first time it doesn't work or do you investigate it? Try to find other ways or possibilities? If inventors and scientist had gone about things the way you propose we would be without electricity, plastic, fiver optics etc....

Aww screw it... NASA said that there is nothing to see hear, move along! Lets just forget about it. Hey, whats on TV.

Dude, I respect your posting. You sound like an intelligent person. However, your comparing people that really have nothing to do with the subject at hand. Aristotle was a philosopher. Bell was a scientist. Telsa was a physicist and a scientist. So I can only think that your trying to compare their drive for knowledge and discovery to this subject. Well, dude, these people had the smarts to realize that what they were studying would result in change, and they did using rules of the scientific method as their guide (except for ofcourse Aristotle, who was a philosopher.)

I'm not saying stop discovering the truth, or the search for knowledge, or discovery. But this conversation went the direction of possible existance for microbial life on mars (because of the supposed vegitation that seems to appear on some of the sat images of mars) and what I'm saying is that we can't prove nor disprove this idea. We (as those of us in this thread) do not have the ability to prove this.

So what is the point? Unfortunately, we HAVE to rely on agencies like NASA and such, because they have the tools.

Originally posted by Fiverz
Ok guys in the spirit of the ATS motto, let's deny some ignorance here.

There have been numerous posts claiming that NASA/ESA has edited alot of these photos etc. At the very least it's been proven that most of the images have at least been color-corrected or enhanced in some matter. Now we are sitting here discussing whether or not these formations are trees or not based on NASA photos. Photos that could be doctored.

Now take it back another step. Our logic says that oxygen and/or water is needed for most organic life. Assuming that's true, there is still a chance that this is indeed the case on Mars. Why?

Think about where the information about the composition of Mars' atmosphere came from in the first place.

That's right, NASA.

I believe if there is any type of cover-up of anything on Mars it goes way back to the first probes that sampled the Martian atmosphere.

Now I'm not saying there is indeed a breathable atmosphere on Mars, or even one that's capable of supporting life. But just remember those evil people that are lying about STS objects and editing photos are the same evil people that gave us our knowledge of the Martian atmosphere in the first place. Food for thought.


EDIT: apologies, I believe this has already been touched upon in this thread

[edit on 4/8/2007 by Fiverz]

You bring up some excellent points Fiverz. I agree with you whole heartedly. This is part of what I've been trying to explain.
Not only could these images be doctored - as I said before you can't prove anything with them. I think if your looking for proof of life beyond earth - start looking INSIDE NASA and coverups. I said this verbatim in one my earlier posts (in reference to kleverones last post.)

Originally posted by zeeon

So what is the point? Unfortunately, we HAVE to rely on agencies like NASA and such, because they have the tools.

Even if they have the tools it's not like they will put them to good use for the sake of telling the truth to the people, so you know what?

I rather not have tools at all and think for my self then having to depend on an agency that as far as i can tell, is only put into place to make sure the information about anything beyond this planet is suppressed.

Originally posted by zeeon
I think if your looking for proof of life beyond earth - start looking INSIDE NASA and coverups.

my friend, nothing is stopping you from doing that and at the same time enjoy some beautiful pictures of perhaps what is really on mars.