People have Faith in Aliens/UFO's why not God?

Originally posted by Gooey
I hope all of the christians who are posting on this subject realize that since it was first created, the bible has been altered thousands and thousands of times. If you took a bible from the 15th century A.D. and put it next to one now, the amount of change in the stories and characters is unbelievable. I think the bible probably started out something closest to a book of morals, and over time became an actual religion. Its a bunch of crap in my opinion, but thats just me.

Interesting. So I take it you're a Biblical scholar. I always appreciate the opportunity to learn from someone who knows a lot more than me, so I'll ask a question.

It's always been my understanding that we do have the original source material in Hebrew and Greek. Are you saying that either (a) this is not the case and we don't have the original source material or (b) we do have that original material but it's been "altered thousands and thousands of times"?

more people believe in the Jesus myth than aliens anyway. though if you look at it, they are both escapist fantasies.
still, the more dangerous one is religion.
hmm....on a nice note, check out the gnostic gospels of Judas, makes Jesus a million times cooler than how he is usually portrayed.

[edit on 9-3-2007 by jetflock]

There is more proof for Extra-terrestrials than for the organized religion form of God. Research the Dogon people of Africa. They had knowledge of the Sirius star systems thousands of years ago. They claim to have gotten the astronomical information from a race of benevolent beings called the Nommo. The Nommo are probably also where the myths of "merfolk" come from. Peace.

Originally posted by Uplifted
There is more proof for Extra-terrestrials than for the organized religion form of God. Research the Dogon people of Africa. They had knowledge of the Sirius star systems thousands of years ago. T

Maybe, maybe not. This could just as likely (I'd say "more likely") be a result of modern influence.

Read it over. It's pretty interesting. I'm Dogon Sirius.

Interesting enough another tribe from Western Africa, takes part in exorsism rituals to keep their village healthy. They have advanced healing powers and abilities to see into the future all in the name of Jesus Christ.

[edit on 9-3-2007 by Ashley_T]

Originally posted by MrPenny
Over and over again, I read on these forums, if an alien craft landed on your front lawn and an alien got out, you skeptics would still refuse to believe it.... Consider it back attya'. If the Red Sea parted today, you'd yell Fake!!!! CGI!!!!

No I wouldn't, Id take into account video, photos and eye witness accounts.

Just as I would if aliens landed on the white house lawn. Either of these stories would be one of the most important things to ever happen.

Originally posted by Ashley_T
Interesting enough another tribe from Western Africa, takes part in exorsism rituals to keep their village healthy. They have advanced healing powers and abilities to see into the future all in the name of Jesus Christ.

[edit on 9-3-2007 by Ashley_T]

Um yeah and Switzerland has a great navy.

How about backing up that claim with evidence.

Originally posted by yeahright

Originally posted by Gooey
I hope all of the christians who are posting on this subject realize that since it was first created, the bible has been altered thousands and thousands of times. If you took a bible from the 15th century A.D. and put it next to one now, the amount of change in the stories and characters is unbelievable. I think the bible probably started out something closest to a book of morals, and over time became an actual religion. Its a bunch of crap in my opinion, but thats just me.

Interesting. So I take it you're a Biblical scholar. I always appreciate the opportunity to learn from someone who knows a lot more than me, so I'll ask a question.

It's always been my understanding that we do have the original source material in Hebrew and Greek. Are you saying that either (a) this is not the case and we don't have the original source material or (b) we do have that original material but it's been "altered thousands and thousands of times"?

Biblical Scholar? No. In fact, I'm only 14. But I'm still an intelligent person who has read the bible (or at least, most of it) and compared it to other versions.

My answer? No, we do not have the original text. Some parts of it may still exist within itself, but I don't believe it to be nearly the same as when it was first created. Let me tell you why.

The bible becomes the sole book of the catholic church in the 12th century, lets say? The catholic church finds something in it they don't like, perhaps they find an interperatation of 'hell' they dislike. They change it. The 13th century comes, people find more things they dislike, they change it.

Ever since the creation of the book itself, it has been altered and changed to fit the people who read it. What if perhaps, god had said 'There will be salvation for all jews'. Now if lets say, italian priests read that, they wouldn't like that very much would they? So they would change it to fit the crowd of people that read it.

Like I said, all of my studies and conversations lead me to believe that the bible started out as a jewish book of fables and stories. Perhaps it was for entertainment, or maybe it was for teaching morals to young children. The more people who used the book altered it more, then more, and more and more and more. Every time a new group of people read it and found something they didn't like, or wanted to make it fit in with themselves, they would change it.

A perfect example of this would be the conquering of Greece by Rome. The romans wanted to adopt the greek gods because they liked them, but found certain attributes they didn't like about them. So what did they do? Live with the flaws? Of course not, they changed them to fit Roman society and even renamed them. That is what happened with the bible, nothing more.

For those who would like to learn a little more about exorcism, and the history and common day use you can refer to the link below:

www.themystica.com...

Originally posted by Gooey
That is what happened with the bible, nothing more.

I won't bother quoting the entire post, but...what I gather is that you don't really know for sure do ya'? You had an awful lot of modifiers in there like, 'perhaps'...'what I believe'..

I applaud your passion...and if I may be so bold....your faith in your beliefs.

Oh please, give me a break. I'll believe that baloney when I see a priest heal a psychopath. Don't make me laugh.


(Directed toward Ashely_T)

[edit on 9-3-2007 by Gooey]

MOD EDIT: Removed insult

[edit on 3/9/07/09 by junglejake]

Originally posted by MrPenny
I applaud your passion...and if I may be so bold....your faith in your beliefs.

Heh, touche' my friend. But my point still stands. No one has ever given, and will ever give me reasons even approaching as valid as mine against the bible, for the truth of the bible, thats just the sad fact.

Originally posted by Gooey
Biblical Scholar? No. In fact, I'm only 14. But I'm still an intelligent person who has read the bible (or at least, most of it) and compared it to other versions.

I must say, you're very astute for your age. However whan you say you've read most of "the bible" and compared it to "other versions" what are you referring to as "the bible" and what are the "other versions"?

My answer? No, we do not have the original text.

Not true. We do have the original Hebrew and Aramaic manuscripts which compromise the Old Testament and the Koine Greek of the New Testament.

The bible becomes the sole book of the catholic church in the 12th century, lets say?

Not exactly. The Latin Vulgate was produced by St. Jerome in the 4th Century by translating the original Greek and Hebrew. At that time, it was declared to be the "official bible".

The catholic church finds something in it they don't like, perhaps they find an interperatation of 'hell' they dislike. They change it. The 13th century comes, people find more things they dislike, they change it.

Maybe for clarity, we need to get off what the "Catholic Church" has done since the middle ages, for purposes of this discussion.

Ever since the creation of the book itself, it has been altered and changed to fit the people who read it.

And your evidence is?

What if perhaps, god had said 'There will be salvation for all jews'. Now if lets say, italian priests read that, they wouldn't like that very much would they? So they would change it to fit the crowd of people that read it.

Ahh yes. "What if" indeed. Now we're into the land of speculation. I have no historical evidence available to me that shows the Bible was changed by italian priests (or anyone else) to "fit the crowd".

Like I said, all of my studies and conversations lead me to believe that the bible started out as a jewish book of fables and stories. Perhaps it was for entertainment, or maybe it was for teaching morals to young children. The more people who used the book altered it more, then more, and more and more and more. Every time a new group of people read it and found something they didn't like, or wanted to make it fit in with themselves, they would change it.

You've been lead to believe something incorrect. Scripture has not been altered as frequently (or with the motivation), as you believe. But that's ok. You've heard it in conversation and it "makes sense" so you go with it. I'm just encouraging you to dig a little deeper before you draw any absolute conclusions.

A perfect example of this would be the conquering of Greece by Rome. The romans wanted to adopt the greek gods because they liked them, but found certain attributes they didn't like about them. So what did they do? Live with the flaws? Of course not, they changed them to fit Roman society and even renamed them. That is what happened with the bible, nothing more.

We may be confusing a couple of different things, here, but you're on a logical track. Many of the "trappings and traditions" of Christianity have been assimilated from other traditions, beliefs and religions. This isn't the same as scriptural truth. This is a very difficult topic and it takes years (and maybe a lifetime) to really comprehend. I'm not saying I'm an expert, or completely comprehend it all.

I'd encourage you to read up on C. S. Lewis - specifically the book, "Mere Christianity". I think you're ready for it.

You have my sincerest best wishes in continuing to search for the truth. No one can give it to you. You have to find it for yourself. Or not.

I am with you Gooey. All the way.

Originally posted by MrPenny

Originally posted by souls
he can't just be, he must have been created.

Why? You're thinking of God as some thing, or person that can be described in human terms. God is not 'describable'.

Why can't there be an omniscient, infinitely existing God? You may as well ask...who created love? Love can't just be, it must have been created.

ok, im just trying to understand, maybe that's why i don't accept the idea of a god, but if you put it that way, how is it that you as a human can understand and describe him it if god is not "describable"? i mean come on, how can god just exist? explain please.

bottom line is, the concept of "GOD" is more than a human can handle. we aren't smart enough to understand it, "God is a mystery", we can(and should)live moral lives, and ponder it though.

Originally posted by jetflock
bottom line is, the concept of "GOD" is more than a human can handle. we aren't smart enough to understand it, "God is a mystery", we can(and should)live moral lives, and ponder it though.

live moral lives is key. but if GOD is a concept that the human intellect cannot understand, why do the people who accept it, say they feel god, they know god is every where, god has helped them?

Originally posted by Dulcimer
yeah yeah ! Whats Jesus done fer ya lately !

My trouble with religion is with the texts and their accounts in them. Fantastic stories that happened years and years and years ago.

But nothing has happened since.

God created the universe in 6 days and rested on the seventh....

We all know by know that a day in the lfe of God is not our days...

So what if this is still the seventh day? And He is still resting?

Boy is He gonna be pissed when he goes back to work on Monday...

God and the Angels are Aliens... real life ET's

Afterall they ARE NOT OF THIS EARTH!

Satan and the Fallen ones are also ET's in the truest definition of the meaning. They were cast down to Earth...

That makes them Landed Immigrants...

I wonder if Bush gave tem Green Cards?

So a belief in God or a belief in Aliens...

pretty much the same thing really...

And when the Annunaki come back in 2012 or whatever... that will be Monday Morning

Think about it...

Bye Bye

Originally posted by yeahright

However whan you say you've read most of "the bible" and compared it to "other versions" what are you referring to as "the bible" and what are the "other versions"?

My answer? No, we do not have the original text.

Not true. We do have the original Hebrew and Aramaic manuscripts which compromise the Old Testament and the Koine Greek of the New Testament.

The bible becomes the sole book of the catholic church in the 12th century, lets say?

Not exactly. The Latin Vulgate was produced by St. Jerome in the 4th Century by translating the original Greek and Hebrew. At that time, it was declared to be the "official bible".

The catholic church finds something in it they don't like, perhaps they find an interperatation of 'hell' they dislike. They change it. The 13th century comes, people find more things they dislike, they change it.

Maybe for clarity, we need to get off what the "Catholic Church" has done since the middle ages, for purposes of this discussion.

Ever since the creation of the book itself, it has been altered and changed to fit the people who read it.

And your evidence is?

What if perhaps, god had said 'There will be salvation for all jews'. Now if lets say, italian priests read that, they wouldn't like that very much would they? So they would change it to fit the crowd of people that read it.

Ahh yes. "What if" indeed. Now we're into the land of speculation. I have no historical evidence available to me that shows the Bible was changed by italian priests (or anyone else) to "fit the crowd".

Like I said, all of my studies and conversations lead me to believe that the bible started out as a jewish book of fables and stories. Perhaps it was for entertainment, or maybe it was for teaching morals to young children. The more people who used the book altered it more, then more, and more and more and more. Every time a new group of people read it and found something they didn't like, or wanted to make it fit in with themselves, they would change it.

You've been lead to believe something incorrect. Scripture has not been altered as frequently (or with the motivation), as you believe. But that's ok. You've heard it in conversation and it "makes sense" so you go with it. I'm just encouraging you to dig a little deeper before you draw any absolute conclusions.

A perfect example of this would be the conquering of Greece by Rome. The romans wanted to adopt the greek gods because they liked them, but found certain attributes they didn't like about them. So what did they do? Live with the flaws? Of course not, they changed them to fit Roman society and even renamed them. That is what happened with the bible, nothing more.

We may be confusing a couple of different things, here, but you're on a logical track. Many of the "trappings and traditions" of Christianity have been assimilated from other traditions, beliefs and religions. This isn't the same as scriptural truth. This is a very difficult topic and it takes years (and maybe a lifetime) to really comprehend. I'm not saying I'm an expert, or completely comprehend it all.

Ah, thank you. You make some persuavsive arguments. But, the only place you caught me was with the original text, I did not know we actually did. As for the text I read? A standard issue 1990-2000 bible. I'll get the publisher later. And by 'other versions' I just meant earlier issues of the bible. I have one from my grandfather that was made in 1607 O.o. But just for the record, when I was talking about the catholics and such, those were just examples, not ACTUAL things that had been said or were in the bible. IE: God saying 'only jews get salvation', just an example



Oh, but for you Zorgon...Have you ever thought why god needs to REST if hes perfect? A little inconsistent if you ask me...

[edit on 9-3-2007 by Gooey]

As for the original topic question, it's already been answered countless times, but i'll add my 2 cents anyway.

It's very simple:
UFO Reportings / vids come more often than they are deemed ''fake''.
GOD reportings come less than they are reported fake (eg.: Crying maria statuettes have been reported hoaxes a LOT, but when I see UFO's, I only see "hoaxes exposed" once or twice, but aside from that I see a dozen of reportings that aren't ''debunked'')

My personal believes?
I believe in my "own" theory (Which is quite similiar to René Descartes's ''infamous'' line: Cogito ergo sum (I think, so I am))

It's a contradictory statement, as what you're basically saying that:
- Everything could be fake.
- The only certainty is that we think.

You can see the contradiction in here, saying that all is false means that your own statement is false as well, rendering your statement ineffective.

But the logic should be there.

Now Once I was on vacation in croatia, and we (my parents and I) were sleeping at a farmers house that rented 2 of his rooms for tourists.

There was a maria statuette on one of those nightdesks next to my mothers bed.

A night, I woke up and had to go to the bathroom, and when I came back, instead of a statuette, there was a silhouette shaped like the statuette in all the colors I could think of, which where phasing and morphing around the shape, without emitting light.

Now I dared not touch it, but even though I saw this ''glow stuff'' (which is the only reporting I can find, my own, the rest is all maria bloody eye crap) I do not see it as proof that God exists, just like I do not believe in UFO's.

Why?
Because we can only pull mere ASSUMPTIONS from our PERCEPTION.
Everything we do is mere SPECULATION based on our PERCEPTION.
Which shows us, fact is that there is no room for facts in our mind.

Now why did I bother you with this you ask?

Because the majority of people does not think like this, but believes what they see.

PERCEPTION is the key.
And UFO's is something that is perceived more often than God (In physical manifestation at least)