Win 250,000 Points: What Are The Top-5 9/11 Conspiracies?

I thought I'd just bring up a few things that weren't already mentioned. Not that they are amongst the five best but here goes:

1. Osama Bin Laden was not behind this. Why? Because right after the attacks, he denied any involvement. I believe that if he was behind it he would have proudly declared it.

2. The pic of a woman standing in the hole of one of the towers. If it was so hot as to melt/weaken steel, how could she have been standing there?

3. The steel/debris from the towers being sent to China before being analyzed to rule out any other possibilities of the collapses.

4. The seismic activity that occured at the time close to the collapses.

5. The supposed landing of one of the planes at a Cleveland airport.

Top 5 9/11 Conspiracies:

1) Flight 77 proceeds disappears from radar for 30 minutes and proceeds unimpeded to Pentagon after hijackings; 9/11 Commission determines cause of Flight 77 not being intercepted is because unidentified source at FAA tells NORAD that "phantom" Flight 11 did not hit WTC and was heading SW towards Washington D.C. NORAD commanders testify to 9/11 Commission that they were notified in time to intercept Flights 93 and 77, but 9/11 Commission decides that NORAD commanders were mistaken in their testimony.

www.gpoaccess.gov...

2) Air Traffic Control towers in Cleveland, Johnstown, and Pittsburgh ordered to be evacuated by FAA in response to hijacking of Flight 93, even though ATC towers would be logical place to track Flight 93. Not only were fighters scrambled away from hijacked planes, but ATC personnel who could track hijacked Flight 93 were evacuated.

www.wanttoknow.info...
www.gpoaccess.gov...
www.cooperativeresearch.org...


3) Air National Guard C-130H pilot is ordered by FAA to look for Flight 77, and claims to see Flight 77 hit Pentagon; C-130H proceeds on "scheduled" trip to Minnesota, and is asked again by FAA to look for Flight 93. Same C-130H pilot arrives at Shanksville within 2 minutes of crash of Flight 93, and claims to identify that Flight 93 has also crashed. Probability of same C-130H being in the exact place, at the exact time of both crashes just by chance is zero. This especially stands out since no fighters were anywhere near either plane.

www.gpoaccess.gov...
www.youtube.com...

4) WTC7's symmetrical collapse in near free-fall time at the very least superficially resembles some sort of controlled demolition/implosion, yet FEMA, NIST, and the 9/11 Commission fail to test for controlled demolition. The official conclusion was that there was no controlled demolition without performing any investigation to examine whether there was evidence to support the theory of a controlled demolition.

wtc.nist.gov...
www.gpoaccess.gov...

5) Army intelligence attempted to inform 9/11 Commission about findings of Able Danger, which allegedly identified Mohammad Atta well before 9/11. 9/11 Commission Report makes no mention of Able Danger, and denies that Army intelligence ever tried to report Able Danger findings. Subsequent Congressional hearing re Able Danger is subverted when Donald Rumsfeld orders that no Army officer is permitted to testify to the Judiciary Committee. Curt Weldon, and his daughter, are subsequently investigated by Feds, and the office of Weldon's daughter is raided by FBI.

en.wikipedia.org...
michellemalkin.com...
www.globalresearch.ca...
www.foxnews.com...
www.timesherald.com...
www.phillyburbs.com...

Well, I am an idiot, but I'll have a go.
And I'm not reading any posts so as not to be destracted by the smart people here.

1. NORAD isn't run by amatuers, let alone monkeys. So WTF happened on 911? Three planes hit buildings that day. Not one, not two, but three. A complete cascade of failures is the only reasonable explanation, and even that won't fully cover it. Do you honestly believe that after two buildings had been struck in NYC a plane could get anywhere near Washington without a thorough F-16 enima? Well, not only does the official story say this happened, but it fails to mention how a myriad of anti aircraft batteries that defend our capital didn't do a god damned thing as a plane was headed towards our military headquarters. Not a GOD DAMNED THING. We'll fire over 2000 shots at a UFO over LA but won't even blink when a commercial passenger jet makes a bee line for the Pentagon AFTER there had already been two strikes on targets within the US.
Battle of LA
Rense is Down, that'll do

AAANNNDDD. Since officially UFOs don't exist that means we were shooting at NOTHING!!!!
Battle of LA 2

NORAD shouldn't get any more tax money

2. Let's also talk about the black box cockpit audio recorders (which are orange). I've heard a lot of conflicting information concerning the black boxes.
Black Box 1
Black box 2
Black box 3
Black box 4

Okay, enough about the misleading, contradicting nonsense, whether or not these black boxes have been "found" is totally moot because I sure as hell can't find the audio, and I'm pretty handy with the internets.

Now if none of the black boxes have been officially recovered, then I'll be forced to call Bravo Sierra (that's bull# to you) as that would be completely unheard of. However, officially, at least two were recovered, and yet the audio has not been released to the public.
It's obvious that if the audio hasn't been released to the public then said audio does not contain anything that supports the official story.
Well, a clever retort might be to simply say "duh, if it was a conspiracy then the audio could have just been faked," but anyone who's spent any time on ATS knows that to create a fake would open up a whole new can of worms. There are a million details involved in creating a fake, right down to the accents of the hijackers, and a fake being exposed would simply create more questions to be answered. It's better to simply yell "National Security" and not release the tapes.

3. Jet fuel does not melt steel. Jet fuel does not melt steel. Jet fuel does not melt steel. You know what does melt steel? The chemical explosives used to cut girders when demolishing steel buildings.
Should I say it again?
So why were pools of molten steel found at ground zero?
There is no official answer, and yet the question remains.
And more importantly, why is the thermal imaging showing hot spots below building 7 where there was no jet fuel anyway?
Thermal imaging
Thermate traces
Steel Melting Fires
Questions and Answers
Note the OPEN AIR temperature of burning jet fuel.
Jet Fuel
Oh, and did NIST test for thermite or Thermate?
No
I'm out of space...
to be continued

wut you said was interesintg in all Nydean...

but.. all you said was quick repsonses.. can you back every single one of those up with actualy facts and info? links? etc..?? proof? iuno sum of what you said seem true and was literal enough.. but.. try backing all of what you said with info and stuff.... it'll be more helpfull

thats like me saying... hey look i saw 100 bucks... everyone looks for it... but i tell them.. too late its already in my pocket.... and walk away with out showing them whether i actually saw 100 bucks... OR EVEN have it in the first place? along with if i already had 100 bucks in my pocket in the first place? or was it just a joke? you see wut a i mean.. PROOF please.. for every single repsond...

Win 250,000 Points: What Are The Top-5 9/11 Conspiracies?

Just a reminder...

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
A question for our members who are adept at 9/11 conspiracy issues and details.

If you could list the top-5 concise issues that shed doubt on the official story of 9/11... what would they be?

The the points should be simple to state and explain, so that anyone can understand. Imagine having 90 seconds in an elevator to help a complete strange be aware of some important issues.

What top-5 issues would you tell them, and how would you say it?

Fellow members -- and mods (*cough* *cough*) -- let's please not turn this into Yet Another 9/11 Debate Thread.

There's a whole forum for those.

Top 5 concise issues only, please.

4. The mystery of WTC 7. This building was not hit by a plane, it sustained damage in the attacks, and fell perfectly into it's own footprint. There are plenty of stories concerning varying degrees of damage and even eyewitness acounts of forehand knowledge of WTC 7 being demolished, however I can't find the links and the truth is it's neither here nor there. People can lie, and so many years after the fact such testimony becomes very suspicious.
Evidence, on the other hand, doesn't lie. Even if the south side of WTC 7 had been shredded beyond recognition it should not have collapsed the way it did.
WTC 7 Damage

Collapse
Common sense tells us that the collapse should have been slower and messier. The building should have tilted towards the damaged side. The only way the collapse could have been straight down would have been for there to have been even damage throughout a horizontal plane. Even if that were the case, the building would not have collapsed so quickly.
Freefall of WTC 7

We also have Silverstein's controversial remark of "Pull it," and the subsequent explanation of the remark about it meaning "the firefighting effort" even though at the time he made the remark there were no firefighters in WTC 7
Pull it
Pull it response

Add to all this the fact that even FEMA deemed WTC 7's collapse improbable
FEMA

5. Now I'll just cover some motive, because without a motive there isn't a crime. The motive is establishing a pretense for securing the US's economy with military force. And use military force we have.
Our targets fall in line with the overall desires of the US
First Strike
More
Iraq
And more
It's not just about taking the oil, but securing the standard with which the oil is traded. And Iran may be next.
Iran

The motive may be the easiest to shout, but is has the most details, and certainly leaves much to speculation.

"Follow the Money"

I shall perhaps expand upon the motive later, but I must retire for tonight.

Guy in elevator: Hey I was watching (insert generic-talking-points-mass-media-brainwashing-network) and they were talking about some crazy conspiracy nuts who think the government is hiding something about September 11th. Can you believe some people? Sheesh!

Me: Well, the 9/11 Commission actually considered bringing criminal charges against military officials who it felt had deliberately misled the commission and the public. (resource) The official story, or conspiracy, is just as much theory as some ideas brought forth by these so called "conspiracy nuts."

Me: Hmm... tell me something: Did you know that the plan to invade Afghanistan had been drawn up while Clinton was still in office? Or that the Patriot Act was also ready before 9/11? What pretext would we have for our current policy without the terrorist attacks? (resource)

Guy: Well even if that were true, we still have to get Bin Laden for what he did.

Me: Now it's funny you should say that. Osama Bin Laden has been wanted since the 90's for previous attacks. However, only two months before 9/11 he was getting treatment at an American hospital on Dubai, and receiving visits from an American CIA agent. And if you go the the FBI's most wanted web page, you will see that Bin Laden is not wanted in connection with 9/11. There is no evidence connecting him to the attacks, and the District Attorney of New York has yet to do a criminal investigation. We were just handed a convienient story as a pretext for already planned events. (resource)

Guy: .... *stares blankly as his programmed mind struggles to think for it's self*...

Me: Besides project Able Danger which identified several terrorists in the States; up to 14 countries, including the Taleban, warned the United States that Al-Qaida and Osama Bin Laden wanted to attack within the United States using airplanes as weapons to attack New York and Washington. Any time Bush or Rice claimed that we had no prior knowledge - they were lying directly to the American public. (resource)

Guy: Ok, so they got a few things wrong when it came to the terrorists. But that doesnt change the fact that somebody crashed planes in New York bringing down the Towers and killing thousands.

Me: Besides government blundering, there is more to those towers collapsing than you're going to hear in the news. How could a building with 90 completely undamaged stories, fall under the weight of 10 or so stories which it had held up for 30 years? Why didn't the tops just fall off, which is how they were designed, in three sections. What happened to the steel columns in the center? Most of the jet fuel burned outside the buildings, according to official sources, so how did 100 stories of steel and concrete turn to dust? Why is the debis pile too small to contain the whole structure?

Guy: I don't know, I'm not an engineer, and I bet you arn't either.

Me: Fair enough. Then tell me how WTC 7 fell into it's footprint from minor damage and small fires? Buildings #3,4,5 &6 took the complete wieght of towers #1 and #2 falling on them - and they remained standing. So how can a building with comparably miniscule damage fall on it's own? A building in Madrid, steel and concrete in design, burned for 24 hours throughout it's entire structure and it remained standing, while WTC 7 falls exactly like a controlled demolition. (resource)

*Elevator reaches it's floor just in time*

Guy: Ok, I admit that theres some interesting questions about the official story, if what you say is true... Is there a website where I can get some good information about this stuff?

Me: Yep, there sure is. The address is www.911gorilla.org... Have a nice day!

My attempt...

5. The President has said TWICE that he witnessed the first plane hit the towers, which is impossible since no footage was known about until much later

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

4. Our President stayed at an elementary school, while then, an unknown number of hi-jacked planes were flying around the country, when normally he would have been sequestered immediately

9/11 White House press briefing:
"The United States Secret Service immediately secured the President, the Vice President and the Speaker of the House, and they are all safe." Oh really...must have missed that on the 7 minutes of video

3. Put options (bets that a stock will drop) indicate insider trading by AB Brown. The key people at/previously at AB Brown

Chairman & CEO A.B. KRONGARD
Appointed to Executive Director of the CIA 3-16-2001
Made Millions off 9-11
en.wikipedia.org...

President & COO M.A. SHATTUCK III
Resigned 9-12-2001 (nice timing)
en.wikipedia.org...

CFO & Treasurer B.L. WRIGHT
Now works for our government in the Office of International Programs
www.nrc.gov... (see signature at bottom of page)


2. Our elected officials were having breakfast with key figures on the morning of 9-11

On the morning of September 11, three lawmakers Bob Graham, Porter Goss and Jon Kyl were having breakfast on Capitol Hill with General Ahmad, whom the FBI has alleged was the money man behind 9-11 hi-jackers

www.globalresearch.ca...

1. Bin Laden is not even wanted for 9/11

According to Rex Tomb, the FBI's Chief of Investigative Publicity, is reported to have said, "The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden's Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11."

In order for 9-11 to be added they need to merely gather a jury of common men and women to indicte him, which in fact they did after the Embassy bombings and the USS Cole, but did not after 9-11. Why?

www.fbi.gov...
911review.org... or Google Bin Laden not wanted 9-11

Just to name a few issues...


[edit on 13-2-2007 by Pistons]

[edit on 13-2-2007 by Pistons]

[edit on 13-2-2007 by Pistons]

Why did 9/11 happen? Was it orchestrated by terrorist organizations or by the neo-cons / Bush and the previous Administrations due to geopolitical compulsions? Was an orchestrated 9/11 supposed to provide carte blanche for an open-ended, global and perpetual "War on Terror?”, a smoke screen for overt action for ‘assimilation’ into the New World Order?

But here are five reasons / questions that lead us to believe that this whole plan was nurtured and executed by the powers that be, probably in conjunction with the same ‘terrorists’ they have put away.

1. Raison d’etre For Orchestrating 9/11 and Geopolitics of Perpetual War on Terror

Principals in US foreign policy under the Bush administration (including Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle and others) have been instrumental in developing long-running plans for worldwide military hegemony, including an invasion of the Middle East, dating back to the Ford, Reagan and Bush Sr. administrations. They reiterated these plans in the late 1990s as members of the "Project for a New American Century," and stated a clear intent to invade Iraq for the purpose of "regime change."

An orchestrated 9/11 was supposed to provide carte blanche for an open-ended, global and perpetual "War on Terror," against any enemy, foreign or domestic, that the executive branch chose to designate, and regardless of whether evidence exists to actually connect these enemies to 9/11.

2. AWOL Chain of Command

It is well documented that the officials topping the chain of command for response to a domestic attack - George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Myers, Montague Winfield - all found reason to do something else during the actual attacks, other than assuming their duties as decision-makers.

So who was actually in charge? Dick Cheney, Richard Clarke, Norman Mineta and the 9/11 Commission directly conflict in their accounts of top-level response to the unfolding events, such that several (or all) of them must be lying.
Was this ‘non action’ on purpose?

3. War Games

"No one could have imagined planes into buildings" - a transparent falsehood upheld repeatedly by Rice, Rumsfeld and Bush.
But what is the truth?

US military and other authorities planned or actually rehearsed defensive response to all elements of the 9/11 scenario during the year prior to the attack, including multiple hijackings, suicide crash bombings, and a strike on the Pentagon. The multiple military war games planned long in advance and held on the morning of September 11th included scenarios of a domestic air crisis, a plane crashing into a government building, and a large-scale emergency in New York.

If this was only an incredible series of coincidences, why did the official investigations avoid the issue? Why did Rice, Rumsfeld and Bush say that no one could have imagined planes hitting into buildings? Obviously, there’s more than meets the eye.

4. Air Defense Failures

The US air defense system failed to follow standard procedures for responding to diverted passenger flights. Why didn't the Air Force shoot down the hijacked planes? Air traffic controllers lost contact with all four aircraft within minutes of takeoff. Two were off course and ignored controllers for more than an hour and a half, yet the mightiest air defense network in the world failed to prevent the suicide bombers from striking their targets.

The various responsible agencies - NORAD, FAA, Pentagon, USAF, as well as the 9/11 Commission - gave radically different explanations for the failure (in some cases upheld for years), such that several officials must have lied; but none were held accountable.

Was there an air defense ‘stand down’? So was this pre planned? Deliberate?

5. Surveillance of Alleged Hijackers

The men identified as the 9/11 ringleaders were under surveillance for years beforehand, on the suspicion they were terrorists, by a variety of US and allied authorities - including the CIA, the US military’s "Able Danger" program, the German authorities, Israeli intelligence and others.

So how could they not know what was brewing and take pre-emptive action? Probably because they wanted it to happen!

The destruction was a conspiracy of biblical proportions that signaled the commencement of the big battle for controlling the World’s energy resources. Who has control rules the world!
- Mikesingh


P.S. These issues are based on FACTS and can be found anywhere on the net.

www.prisonplanet.com...
www.usatoday.com...
www.911truth.org...
911research.wtc7.net...




[edit on 13-2-2007 by mikesingh]

1. The perfectly symmetrical collapse of World Trade Centre Building 7 from small fires alone. Building 7 was not hit by any planes. Watch It

2. The wide spread debris field in Pennsylvania from Flight 93 suggesting aerial explosion. Coupled with the complete lack of sizeable debris. This suggests the plane exploded while in mid-air.Where's the Debris?

3. The small hole in the Pentagon prior to the sections collapse. No obvious damage to the walls from where the jet engines were attached. See it

4. The fact that no steel-framed buildings had ever collapsed due to fire prior to, or since, 9/11. Read about it

5. The complete failure of NORAD to scramble jets in time to intercept the planes as per their standard operating procedures.Read about it

[edit on 13/2/07 by subz]

How do we define "top 5?" By popularity, utility, verifiability, importance, obnoxiousness? There's five different top fives right there.

Whilst the full detail of what happened on 11 September 2001 will be hotly debated for decades to come some central facts are inescapable. What is certain is that two airliners struck the World Trade Centre in New York City and a third crashed into the Pentagon in deliberate attacks against the USA. To talk of holograms, decoy planes and cruise missiles is to risk moving the questions about that day from the realms of serious investigation of Government failures into the Looney Tunes arena which does no service either to serious investigators or the victims.

However, there are a number of issues surrounding the attacks and their immediate aftermath which have not yet been adequately explained despite the vast resources dedicated to official investigations. Amongst these the following matters give rise to very serious concern:

1. Given that the collapse of the WTC towers was instigated by the crashes of two airliners how did the extreme temperatures required to fatally weaken and deform the steel structure arise. Jet fuel alone does not burn at high enough temperatures and the combustion of normal office fittings seems an inadequate additional basis for the intensity of the fires that raged, notwithstanding the apparent inadequate fireproofing systems within the buildings. In addition to this there are persistent rumours and much anecdotal evidence of molten metal in the debris pile surviving for many hours if not days.
Rubble Fires

All of these events are conceivable, if unlikely, but the processes which gave rise to them have not been adequately explained.

2. The fourth plane involved in the attacks crashed in Shanksville whilst allegedly en route for Washington. The plane is believed to have been brought down as a result of the attempts by passengers to recover control from hijackers once their potential fate became clear. However, concern persists that the aircraft was shot down by US fighter aircraft.

Amidst all the extraordinary events of that day the crash of United 93 was probably the closest thing to a normal event that took place in that an aircraft hit the ground and exploded and yet the crash site looks remarkably unlike any other crash site resulting from a similar event with debris reported over an unusually large area and a still unexplained discrepancy in the precise timing of the crash.
Flight 93 Crash

3. Whilst there can be little serious doubt that three commercial aircraft were hijacked and flown into the buildings it is clear that the degree of piloting skill required to achieve this was not inconsiderable. That is not to say that it was impossible to achieve either by design or with a healthy dose of good fortune.
Pentagon Flight Details

If we accept the premise that only four aircraft were hijacked and all three which reached their destinations struck their intended targets then this was certainly a remarkable achievement which borders on the inconceivable.

4. It is clear that in the immediate aftermath of the Pentagon crash that a large amount of evidence, and in particular, video recordings were taken away by the security services. Whilst this is not unusual or surprising the continued reluctance to make these recordings public over many years does seem to take the blind adherence to the principles of secrecy and confidentiality to absurd levels.

Those videos which have been belatedly released only after intense public pressure are inconclusive at best, and given that they were recorded on equipment designed for low level security purposes rather then the capture of images of fast moving jet aircraft this is hardly surprising but the CIA and their like have not helped their credibility one iota by their obtuse refusal to treat either the public interest or just plain old public curiosity with more respect.

Their actions in suppressing what appears to be inconsequential evidence for so long can only beg the question of "why?"
Pentagon Videos Witheld

5. Finally, and without doubt, the most compelling peculiarity is the inconsistency in the Bush administration's reaction to the attacks in terms of the assertion that there was no prior warning of the attacks and the astonishingly rapid appropriation of guilt to Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden after the event.

Immediate reaction was to say that the attacks could not have been anticipated and yet on the evening of 11 September George Bush told his cabinet colleagues that he intended to pursue the Taliban in Afghanistan and Attorney General Ashcroft claimed to fully understand the process of the hijackings, a truly remarkable investigative effort if we accept the premise that there was no prior awareness of such a threat or were they desperate and ill conceived attempts to cover up their failure to act earlier?
Timeline & Government Accusations

This is not necessarily to say that the administration was complicit in carrying out the attacks but to suggest that such clear evidence of guilt could be ascertained within a matter of hours amidst the confusion of 11 September does cast enormous doubt on the claim that their was no prior warning which could have been acted on.


Events of such huge significance and with such far reaching results will always fuel conspiracy theories and the dividing line between conspiracy and cock up will inevitably be difficult to establish at times but once the cock up principle has been established, and there were certainly many of those, then we advance to the next stage which is usually a cover up and the public at large will, eventually, be brutally unforgiving of any such activity



[edit on 13-2-2007 by timeless test]

1) Sow chaos to reap the rewards. Absolutely unprecedented in history, there were over two dozen war games scheduled by the Pentagram that morning, including Global Guardian, which set US defenses at Defcon 3, the highest nuclear hair-trigger alert, and others that pulled all but eight of NORAD's fighter jets from the East Coast to Canada, and yet others that mimicked the hijacking of commercial airliners.

Google Video Link

2) Standard Operating Procedures were Intentionally Countermanded. Whether or not you believe the jets that day were indeed commercial airliners, that not one was ever intercepted by a fighter escort is in flagrant violation of standard FAA and NORAD protocols, which demand interceptors launch immediately when any airplane deviates from its flightpath. The only way this could happen is by a direct, countermanding order to stand down from the SOP of immediate intercept.

Google Video Link

3) Where is the Physical Evidence of the 757 that Supposedly Hit the Pentagram? Photos taken before the collapse of the building's facade show a hole only three yards wide. No gashes for the wings or the vertical stabilizer, or entry holes for the pair of six-ton jet engines. No bodies, no wreckage strewn about, nothing. Are we to believe a massive Boeing simply vaporized on impact?

4) WTC 7 Fell Later That Day in Controlled Demolition. The building, a 40 story steel-frame building from the 70s at the edge of the WTC complex, was barely touched by the collapse of the WTC towers. However, it simply collapsed at free-fall speed that afternoon. Small fires were left to burn unattended in the lower floors, but it was physically impossible that they could weaken such a structure to collapse. Numerous demolition experts have attested that the structure was a classic controlled demolition, and the owner himself, Larry Silverstein, is on record as saying he gave the order to "pull it." The building housed the City of NY's Emergency Command Center, and offices of the CIA, FBI, SEC, and Secret Service; need one say more?

Google Video Link

5) The Official Conspiracy Theory is Absurd. The government's actions afterward are evidence of a massive cover-up. Evidence was destroyed and withheld, investigations thwarted and delayed, conclusions fly in the face of logic and elementary physics.

George W. Bush was the Pet Goat of the Neo-Con conspirators. Given the media manipulation and symbolism of the modern presidency, it is no accident that W. was found sitting among first-graders, filmed reading The Pet Goat, for nearly ten minutes while the attacks occurred. Careful stagecraft was used to show him to be a patsy, a powerless man-child--left deliberately out of the loop and unprotected in a public space for over 40 minutes during an attack on the homeland. He was later sent aloft in AF 1 without fighter escort, when he was informed that he was to play cheerleader to the cabal or be shot out of the sky.

[edit on 13-2-2007 by gottago]

[edit on 13-2-2007 by gottago]

[edit on 13-2-2007 by gottago]

5 points.

1. Towers 1 & 2 collapse at free fall speed of about 9.2 seconds. If they collapsed the way the U.S goverment wants us to believe it would have took much longer.

2. Towers 1, 2 & WTC 7 collapse in there own footprint, only possible if demolition charges were used.

3. The FAA issued all planes to be grounded, the first time in aviation history.
This would include military, civil and police aircraft. How come then was a craft that eye witnesses claimed to have been a C130 hercules, seen over Wasington DC. Why was this craft allowed to fly and why was it allowed over restricated airspace at time of hightened national security.

4. The goverment wants us to believe that both blackboxes, made from the most durable metals know to man were destroyed. Yet a passport made from paper made it's way out of the hijackers pocket, through the inferno and on to the streets of new york. "Who writes this?"

5. A physicist took cellphones up to different altitudes, to test their effectivness. At 32,000 ft (cruising altitude for a commercial plane) he had a 0.006 succsess rate. 1 in a million chance of getting a signal. How was those phone calls made?

Inside job

video.google.com...

1) Basement Explosions in WTC towers, several eyewitness reports and significant damage filmed in lobby

2) WTC 7 collapsed while #6 (right beside WTC1) took much heavier damage yet its remnants remained standing

3) the entire area kept displaying very high temperatures for weeks on end, molten steel was recovered from the basements, jet fuel does not reach sufficient temperatures

4) the buldings alledgedly crushed themselves into dust, which is impossible because something solid would be required to crush the rest (ie. top), even then debris would have to be indefinitely coarser

5) all plane components have serial numbers and are being tracked (registered) for purposes of maintainance and accident investigations, where are they? where did tons of solid aircraft parts like engine shafts and undercarriage go? this question is especially nagging in the pentagon attack.

This is closest to the kind of post I'm looking for:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Consider the most compelling "mainstream" 9/11 issues that could be displayed here:
www.911gorilla.org...
As part of our effort here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Short. Sweet. Accepted by non-conspiracy theorists.

#5 The entire tradgedy looked as though it were a professional demolish.

• The buildings imploded, This is a signature for professional Demolishions.
  
• The "indestructable" buildings were destroyed by fire alone.
  
• The buildings were scheduled for demolishion by the end of the decade.
  

#4 The Illuminati planned the attack since the towers were constructed.

• The folded $5 and $20 bills show exact positions as to where the planes would hit the WTC Twin Towers.
  
• The WTC Twin Towers are the staple of the American Economy. Since our markets were tainted by outside influences the Illuminati wanted to go into isolation. An attack on America's Economy would give them ultimate power.
  

#3 George W Bush planned the attack with his father in order to go into the Middle East for oil, as his father had in the past.

• The attack happened within the first year of George W Bush's reign.
  
• The Bush's have major economic interests in oil.
  
• George W Bush allowed Dick Cheney's oil company first bids on the oil cleanup project
  

#2 George W Bush wants a totalitarian state.

• George W Bush has alienated many Americans and wants ultimate control
  
• Has began to strip Americans of their rights.
  
• PATRIOT ACT
  

#1 George W Bush is the AntiChrist

• George W Bush was part of Skull & Bones Occult Fraternity.
  
• George W Bush gives the sign of the Devil to the world.
  
• George W Bush came in quickly and has taken over all of our rights even though it is unconstitutional. Example: PATRIOT ACT!
  
• George W Bush is a man who was appealing at first, united a nation, and has taken control. He has lied to American citizens and will most likely put the US into a state of war in order to prolong his presidency!
  

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Short. Sweet. Accepted by non-conspiracy theorists.

Here's the shorter, sweeter version suitable for 911Gorilla...

1) Why Didn't 9/11 Commission Discover Why FAA Reported "Phantom" Flight 11 to NORAD?

9/11 Commission concludes Flight 77 was not intercepted by NORAD because a never-to-be-indentified FAA official told NORAD commanders that a "phantom" Flight 11 did not hit the WTC, and was heading to Washington D.C. 9/11 Commission does not even pursue trying to identify a reasonable explanation for why this misinformation was passed to NORAD, or more importantly, who provided the misinformation, which allegedly caused fighters to be scrambled away from hijacked planes.



2) Why Did FAA Order Control Towers Evacuated Instead of Having Towers Track Flight 93?

FAA ordered air traffic control towers in Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Johnstown evacuated. This would have prevented air traffic controllers from tracking hijacked Flight 93 on radar at a time when tracking Flight 93 would have been critically important. 9/11 Commission fails to identify who at the FAA instructed control towers to be evacuated.


3) What Are The Odds That Same C-130H Pilot, By Random Chance, Would See Both Flight 77 and Flight 93 Crash?

FAA directs Air National Guard C-130H to look for Flight 77 approaching Pentagon. Pilot claims to see plane hit Pentagon. Same C-130H continues on scheduled trip to Minnesota, and for the 2nd time in about 20 minutes, FAA asks the same C-130H to look for a hijacked plane. This time pilot claims to see Flight 93 crash site in PA. 9/11 Commission asks public to believe that C-130H was coincidentally in the exact location of two of the crashed at almost the exact time of both crashes.


4) Government Claims There Was No Controlled Demolition First, Then Writes Reports To Substantiate Their Claims -All Without Analyzing Physical Evidence

WTC buildings collapse at free-fall speeds. NIST is assigned to explain collapse without FBI sharing reports regarding physical evidence. NIST changes official theory from "pancake" theory to "momentum" theory, and attempts to justify not looking for evidence of controlled demolition simply because they believe their "momentum" theory must be correct after "pancake" theory was proven to defy laws of physics.


5) Able Danger Officers Not Permitted to Testify to 9/11 Commission or Congress

Data-mining military intelligence group Able Danger possibly informs 9/11 Commission that they had identified Mohammad Atta prior to 9/11, but the 9/11 Commission denies ever speaking to anybody about Able Danger. Instead, 9/11 Commission calls on U.S. Attorney from Chicago, Patrick Fitzgerald, to testify about al-Qaeda. Congressional hearings are scheduled on Able Danger, but Donald Rumsfeld orders Able Danger officers not to testify to Judiciary Committe. Later, Congressman Curt Weldon, who spear-headed the Able Danger investigation, is put under investigation by the FBI, and his daughter's office is raided by the FBI.

Ok you're looking for 9/11 conspiracy theories and ideas that the average, mainstream, Joe would consider. As someone who has no issues with the 'physics of the collapse,' or issues with Pentagon debris, 'shape/depth of hole,' etc, etc, I'm the target audience... sorta.


If it's true that "they" use disinformation operations [eg, CoIntelPro] to cover their nefarious deeds we can safely bet the 9/11 truth movement is rotten with it. Seems to me that 90% of the 9/11 CTists out there spend all their time on irrelevant arguments. If there's a conspiracy, of the scale implied here, these guys would, of course, be trying to 'steer' the debate, no? What's everbody always debating? I say that's by design ie, "they" are playing 9/11 CTists like a fiddle. But why not flip it on 'em? They taught alot of you guys how to play [research, debate, collaborate, etc.] You just need new sheet music and, perhaps, not so many mixed metaphors. I'm not making any arguments here but listing the issues I'd like to see investigated, as I'm assuming that's what you're looking for.

... so along those lines I'd offer:

1)What did Russia and/or China know? (eg, This page)


2)Whom in the 9/11 conspiracy movement is one of "their" disinfo operatives? If there is a conspiracy, 'bombs in the building' or not, "they're" doing their best to muddy the waters, they'd have to be, no? I'd look first to those who refuse to let the Pentagon stuff go. Look for who's 'steering' the debate, like we'd "follow the money" if you catch my drift.


3)Assuming "they" anticipated our response (ie, attacking Afghanistan) why did "they" want us [US military] there? The US govt could have been duped [vs being culpable] and I could think of a couple countries that are pleased our time and attention is being spent elsewhere. Did they think we were coming for them? Or are they on offense and setting us up? They got the added bonus of Iraq and further degredation of the US's image, and military capability, world-wide.


4)Why not release the WTC blueprints (etc) and numerous Pentagon videos? I say not because they're hiding something but because they want you chasing your tail on irrelevant issues. It's really quite genius when you stop and think about it.


5)How does Bin Laden escape and further, why are we 'no longer interested.' Never sat right with me... seems like "they" didn't want the 'game' to end. We're Americans, dagnabbits, with a gun-ho Texan as our president, we chase a punk/coward like this to the ends of the Earth, no?

There it is. Short. Sweet. Now I think we can all agree I got these points in the bag. Seriously guys sit down. No no, Thank You. But alas I've more points then I already know what to do with. Once skepticoverlord makes the decision we all know he's going to make - No no, Thank You please people, take your seats - I'd like him to note the time and give my 250k points to the next guy, or gal, who registers as a new member on ATS.

*exits stage rig... oops, stage left*

Hey SO,

Your link doesnt go to any particular post...

Which one are you referencing as the model?