On to something huge here! (UFO HOAX)

Originally posted by torsion
What became ultimately interesting about this thread was not the video itself but the psychological profile of Frozenthought:

The friendly attitude when the video is first posted -

The disappointment shown when some people question the footage-

As serious doubt about the video's validity is shown he tries to re-ignite interest with a false promise of providing even better 'mind-blowing' video -

The evidence against the video continues to build up so a distraction story of a mysterious physical attack against himself is added out of left field-

This fails to generate any sympathy so he resorts to attacking the credibility of those providing the proof that we see nothing other than aircraft-

On realising he is up for a ban a desperate attempt is made to gather support-

And a final last gasp of doomed self-pity comes when, knowing the game is up, he ups the ante again and claims to have been abducted and experimented upon by extraterrestrials!

The whole thread gives valuable insight into the lengths a hoaxer will go in order to deceive people. It should be preserved as a benchmark case.

OUTSTANDING EVALUATION!

NOW...

GET OUTSIDE THE BOX AND GIT OVER HERE, MAN!! LOL!!


You MUST... not you MIGHT.... but you MUST include in ANY assessment you devise.... that the deception of these stinky little oversized sulfurbugs is such that YOU have been deceived RIGHT HERE.... RIGHT NOW.

WHAT IF the frustration felt by FROZEN THOUGHT is the SAME frustration felt by JOB? I'm may be wrong... but I don't think you've necessarily engaged this yet... have you? If not, ya might wanna...

His FRUSTRATION is part of THEIR plan.

YOUR doubt is part of THEIR plan.

You MUST include in your argument allowance for the fact that whether YOU or ANY OTHER PERSON LOOKS AT ANY DAMNED VIDEO... THEY may be "projecting" what YOU are seeing.

And to clear up any misconceptions.... I posted the DATE that FrozenThought emailed ME his answers to those questions. YOU are mistaken... and the arrogance that is spurting from your mouth belongs to ALL OF US. We have ALL done this... myself included.

PLEASE STOP. Take a deep breath and understand that he did NOT "up the ante" out of desparation. I actually asked him if there was a "little voice" that was telling him NOT to disclose the abduction part. He did NOT answer "yes" or "no" but this IS when he posted that.

I explained that the "voice" is part of the programming. The TELL YOU to cover the evidence. They TELL YOU to NOT share the information about the TRUE event... Instead, we get stories about saving the world, and US Governent Covert Doctors, and Time Travel and Buck Rogers,... heck One guy even came back saying Star Wars is REAL.

THEY PLAY ON YOUR EMOTIONS. The use YOUR imagination... YOUR genius... to DECEIVE YOU. It's the same thing as something like AlQaeda. And let me tell you this right now...

We are probably all going to see a day when we find that this "programming" for AlQaeda... where they uses the technology and systems of their ADVERSARY to TAKE DOWN THE WTC... That it is NOT dissimilar at all to what will happen AGAIN tonite to many of us.

So again, I don't come in here spouting off "RESERVE JUDGEMENT" cuz it's a "catchy buzzphrase". I say it because it is what humanity MUST find strength within itself COLLECTIVELY to do right now... If we TRUELY want truth...

For instance... Could I make a suggestion here, please...

There is ONE thing that is held UTTERLY sacred to ANY human being... and that ONE thing is their IDENTITY.

PLEASE do not resort to name calling in a forum such as this... it is below ALL of you... We need UNDERSTANDING and the unquenchable THIRST for TRUTH right now...

Not creative renditions of names someone else has created for themselves... You are attacking their "self". NOT KEWL. Apply the golden rule and you find a bad feeling for yourself as well, no?

We are ALL in this together. There is NO PERSON here that has an Illegitimate Opinion. NOT SO MANY AS EVEN ONE... Yourself included, there, partner...

We gotta remember that Hate is only PERVERSION of Love... just turn it around man... we ALL gotta be EXCELLENT TO EACH OTHER

Get it yet?

WE have been ARROGANT. And THAT is why we've NOT seen the Light on this crap yet.

SP *psssht* goin' to have a cold one... ALONE.

Late.

*evilgrin* be back in a few...

[edit on 18/202/07 by Southpaw11]

Southpaw

Your repeating posting of the "list of questions" is getting real annoying. Can't you create an HTML page somewhere and refer your targets to it, or maybe a special thread here? There are threads about abduction experiences, maybe your should be reading those due to your interest.

PS. You left out the "load bang" mentioned in the thread "Loud Bangs in Maine Also"

Southpaw, I'm curious; are you in any way affiliated with Derrel Sims?

Originally posted by roadgravel
Southpaw

Your repeating posting of the "list of questions" is getting real annoying. Can't you create an HTML page somewhere and refer your targets to it, or maybe a special thread here? There are threads about abduction experiences, maybe your should be reading those due to your interest.

PS. You left out the "load bang" mentioned in the thread "Loud Bangs in Maine Also"

Great Idea. You're absolutely right... I was noting that load myself...

On it.

SPout

I think banning was the best possible outcome. The word 'hoax' tends to be misused a lot here where we get hundreds of posts of easily identifiable objects, but posted in good faith by people who are simply mistaken. Common sense usually wins out when enough evidence is presented and the posters accept that they were mistaken. Those are not hoaxes.

Frozenthought not only refused to accept any evidence that contradicted his belief, he tried to deceive ATS members by claiming there were no major airports close by and that the objects were traveling in the 'wrong' direction to be associated with any airports. Even at the very end, he was still trying to belittle any contradictory opinions..

Originally posted by Frozenthought
Detroit??????????????? that is some 3 hours away, now that makes sense, are you people just grasping at straws?

Of course the plane could have come from Detroit. Or New York, or Paris. Is he suggesting planes can't fly for 3 hours?

Add this behavior to the fact that he has a financial interest in the footage and I think it's obvious that he was just using ATS to promote his DVD. That is the true definition of a hoax and it's the worst possible kind because it doesn't just line his pockets, it uses the good name and high profile of ATS to enable it.

Springer was absolutely right to stop it, before it damaged the credibility of ATS.

Originally posted by BallOfPopulation
Southpaw, I'm curious; are you in any way affiliated with Derrel Sims?

Not officially. Although I am hoping to get operators working security on the expeditions he has planned for the upcoming year... the guy's been all over the world on this hunt... you have no idea...

The first time I'd ever heard of the guy was on 29 October 2006 when he appeared on the Coast to Coast show. I listened intently. Everything he was conveying was moving me closer to understanding things that had been a MYSTERY to me for most of my life.

Heck, I'd even completely forgotten about MANY... like the childhood goal of being taller than my 4'11" aunt. It was a right of passage when I was taller than her... WHY? Couldn't figure it out. Wrote it off. And now I know.

I called him the next day. We talked for a long time and got to know each other. It was strange and I was VERY apprehensive at first. But when that guy can start telling you things that NO ONE should know... you kinda have to listen.

And NO I don't mean in a "hocus pocus" manner. I mean... this guy called it PERFECTLY on several of my own "symptoms". I mean LEGIT. He is a Gentleman and a Scholar... and, in my humble opinion, is probably THE reason Brooks Agnew is getting all this super insane stuff happening to him... he said the other night "he is the UNITER OF THE CLANS". Another messianic statement... NOT good to compare yourself with Christ in that manner. I wish him the best and I really DO hope they find the hollow earth... but chances are they'll come up empty handed...

HOPE FOR THE BEST AND PREPARE FOR THE WORST.


I do maintain a constant contact with he and his organization. In fact, my tactical division may very well be providing executive security for the expeditions his organization will be pursuing in the next year.

Put it this way. I don't make ANY money off ANY of this and simply do NOT want to. This belongs to HUMANITY. NOT any INDIVIDUAL or POCKET THEREOF. If YOU go call Derrel... GOOD... then YOU will get the help you need too. MY money has NOTHING to do with websites, books, yada yada yada. In fact, I bought 20 copies of Sims' last book just to have on hand for my guys for training... AND situations like a few folks in here...

INCLUDING FROZENTHOUGHT and even DAVID SEREDA... to whom I am overnighting copies on Monday. I hope it helps THEM in their own quest. PERIOD.

We've gotta stop thinking DOLLARS and start understanding that the CHANGE starts with each of us...

Here's one for ya... Ya know how when we were kids we'd talk about if the whole world "tooted" at the same time? LOL... maybe we vermont kids are alone on that one... who knows...

anyway...

WHAT IF... the whole world offered SINCERE FORGIVENESS at the same time instead? Ever poner THAT? What if EVERYONE with more than 1000.00 in their bank account MADE THE DECISION BY THEMSELVES to send 100.00 to make CERTAIN innocent children around the world have WATER that they can DRINK.

Have you EVER been in a place where there is NO WATER? Seriously. Everybody chime in. Have YOU? I have... THAT ain't pretty. NOT AT ALL.

What would happen if we ALL CHOSE to do THAT? Could you imagine the WAVE of LOVE that would encompass the globe? Seriously... has your imagination allowed you to go THAT far in consideration?

The thought of it amazes me. What if our ONLY ANSWER IS UNITY?




So this is a VERY good question.

His research is REAL. I cannot comment on a major portion of what the guy has going on b/c I've been asked NOT to. And NO that's NOT a line of crap. You don't know me, and you have not looked in my eye. Integrity is really the only word that matters. It takes, sometimes, a lifetime to discover and understand this. I come here with TRUTH. If it's NOT truth then I make CERTAIN to say so.

See... We've got alot of people out there that simply have not had an opportunity to review the evidence. Not the evidence that is going to make humanity simply STOP.

There's a reason you don't hear Sims "spouting off". He KNOWS what's going on. He KNOWS and has explained to me how they will take honest researchers that are making SERIOUS progress... and then will program them with the "messiah complex" where they somehow think THEY are the missing link. Derrel knows BETTER. Because THEN, once you've told the whole world about your revelation.. THEN they yank the carpet out. They don't show up... the researcher is discredited... many times bankrupted... and is made out to be CRAZY.

Again... if you would just grab a Bible... just for about an HOUR... and GO READ THE BOOK OF JOB... you will understand the patterns I am referencing.

See that folks? WE have Killed GOD. And because HUMANITY has KILLED GOD.... The best of the best... YOU... have a resistance even to looking for ANYTHING in the Bible. YOU LAUGH IT OFF.

If you are the TRUE Slueth... then you have to stop and consider someone might be tampering with YOU. Once you do... THAT is when it gets interesting.

YIKES!

BE CAREFUL.

Pfff Southpaw11...
Isnt it enough with religious propaganda, exploitation and pathetic comments? It is really annoying; at least annoys me. Dont ask why I am reading this thread then, and dont ask why I dont ignore you...
Boring, just boring..

[edit on 18-2-2007 by manastin]

Originally posted by manastin
Pfff Southpaw11...
Isnt it enough with religious propaganda, exploitation and pathetic comments? It is really annoying; at least annoys me. Dont ask why I am reading this thread then, and dont ask why I dont ignore you...
Boring, just boring..

[edit on 18-2-2007 by manastin]

Yup, I have no idea what Southpaw11s comments have to do with the VIDEO. Respect due though, he sounds like a decent bloke.
Abduction, MIB, Religion etc serves no porpose here and 'Killing God' sounds like a wild attempt at emotional blackmail.
If the evidence stood up to scrutiny then this would not be needed.

[edit on 18-2-2007 by Xeros]

Southpaw, your ramblings simply make no sense to me. What exactly are you trying to say? You rant on as though you are the reincarnation of David Koresh! If you have something coherent to tell us can you keep it short and to the point...

We seem to have moved away from promoting David Sereda to promoting Derrel Sims!

All this pseudotheology is irrelevant to this post.

Exactly.

Aliens and UFO's are what this bit is for, please start another thread in the religion section to discuss another topic

I was dumbfounded when the OP was trying to suggest that the video was shot in a completely different direction to what was actually being shown in the footage - I believe we gave it a fair shake of the stick, but to use a motoring analogy, as soon as we gave the tyres a good kick, the wheels promptly fell off!

But what was most amusing was how many people suddenly seemed to suggest that anyone who doubted the evidence was either blind, stupid or a CIA/NSA/SS/MJ12/ETC plant..

Oh well, I hope this serves to warn off other potential hoaxers - we're not stupid, and we *will* find you out!

It seems Sundays are the day I get stuck spending a couple hours cleaning up threads in this forum...

SOUTHPAW: PLEASE REFRAIN from posting religious/spiritual matters in the UFO/Aliens Forum.

We have a Religion and Spirituality Forum just for that.

I have tried to clean up the bulk of the OFF topic, religious stuff in this thread but the task is daunting so it's as good as it's going to get.

Forzenthought was banned because of two reasons:

First and foremost he is perpetuating a HOAX and hoping to stir up buzz for a DVD they plan to sell of that HOAX by using our site to get the attention of the MILLIONS of PEOPLE who come here. SkepticOverlord, Simon Gray and I DO NOT work our butts off keeping ATS up and constantly growing so HOAXERS can advertise their tripe FOR FREE.

Secondly, he just pissed me off with his snide comeback to my "Trim Quotes" post. And the guy who thinks that's a "GAY" reason to ban someone, well I really don't care what you think but I'll say that the day YOU go build a site with a database in the TERABYTES and keep it fast and don't care about how many times it has to reproduce THE SAME THING is the day I'll ask YOU how you did it.

Now, this AboveTopSecret.com, NOT HoaxersFreeAdvertisingNetwork.com. We deny ignorance here we don't advertise falsehoods for free.

This site costs thousands of dollars a month to keep up and running and we TURN DOWN people who have tripe like this who want to PAY US to allow them to present it here. At least those folks have the decency to ASK first.

This site is dedicated to the average person being able to get their experience, video, pictures, etc... out there and have a community of intelligent people look at it. There are countless examples of HONEST people who thought they captured something on video and presented it here. After thorough examination and evidence that points to a common explanation they APPRECIATE the knowledge gained and move on.

The HOAXERS, to a person, ALWAYS go through a similar gyration (as astutely pointed out above by torsion )as Frozenthought did here. They go to great lengths to try to deflect from the discovered reality. ATS doesn't "Play That".

I received a U2U from someone who obviously can't figure out how to deny ignorance this morning claiming that we are all in the CIA or something equally stupid because we shot down a hoaxer. This is exactly the mentality that keep the hoaxers in business. As long as there are gullible, ignorant people there will be a market for bunk. That's okay I am a free market businessman, the difference is a matter of ETHICS in my mind, selling something that has been identified as unidentified is just fraud IMHO.

Did Frozenthought actually believe he was filming a UFO when shot that video? I don't know but it sure seems HIGHLY UNLIKELY unless he is incredibly dull witted. The IDENTIFIED air traffic in that area is nearly constant, the airports are dam near EVERYWHERE and the fact he FAILED to mention the above facts in his first presentation is highly suspect.

When you throw ALL OF THAT in with the FACT he has signed a deal with a production company to sell a DVD of this, it becomes ridiculous IMHO.

Is he going to include the footage and evidence (airports, glide paths, etc...) we have here in the DVD? If not then it's obvious what the ONLY CONCERN is. There is no value for the viewer/buyer in presenting this video without ALL the facts.

Springer...

[edit on 2-18-2007 by Springer]

Originally posted by defcon5
Here is a good example what am MD-80 landing config is and how bright the three lights are:

there are none.
Why?
Because an DC-9 varient has such bright landing lights it drowns them out…
Period…
End of that…
If you cannot figure it out then go learn something about aircraft…

Anyway I am done for the day.
Us super-secret agents are going to bed so we can go study sleep apnea all night.

Later on all.


Notice how large and in your face the airplane is compared to the planes in the video in question. Please present a picture that shows the same plane at the range of the video objects. Also please understand that what you capture in a film still camera, with your eyeball, and with a video camera are all going to be different.

Not to get off the subject but just the other night I was driving home from work and THOUGHT I saw a ufo.The object had 3 bright yellowish-white lights and it looked as though it was just hovering.That is until I got almost directly under it did I realize it was a slow moving airplane.(very close to the photo Defcon posted.)I thought I'd throw that out there to say it is very easy to be fooled by aircraft.Although I do believe the ufo phenomenon is real,evidence is VERY hard to come by.

Originally posted by manastin
Pfff Southpaw11...
Isnt it enough with religious propaganda, exploitation and pathetic comments? It is really annoying; at least annoys me. Dont ask why I am reading this thread then, and dont ask why I dont ignore you...
Boring, just boring..

[edit on 18-2-2007 by manastin]

Sorry to offend. Not intentional. And DEFINITELY NOT propaganda. Take another look if ya have the time...

WHERE? Pathetic Comments? Isn't that almost an attempt at "speech suppression"? There are things that annoy me as well. I know how you feel. Hmmmm....

Maybe if we all just agree to TOLERATION. Would that work?

SPout

I'm not sold. You have posted that this is a "hoax"... when in reality ALL that was proven was that some people with fancy software made educated guesses and assumptions that these datasets ARE precisely the same, that FrozenThought IS a "hoaxter".

Yet... You have discounted the MOST important part of the evidence. On this point we are, most probably, going to disagree. This THREAD was ALL about "PRETTY LIGHTS".

When our Military Implements "PRETTY LIGHTS" it is usually for the purpose of LOCATING something or someone... OR... for DISTRACTING something or someone, no?

So... WHY... would the EDUCATED FAMILY within these binary walls ASSUME that the ETs are ANY LESS CAPABLE than WE are? Really. Why? Are we so arrogant to think that THEY are not going to come up with the very same concepts? Here's one for ya... what if THEY taught the concept to US?

I feel that what we have done is JUDGED this person because of his emotional responses, along with the fact that a "majority" found the "video" to be.... not so compelling.

Did ANYONE consider the line of questioning I engaged with FrozenThought?

Did ANYONE consider what I had stated about NOT focusing on the "PRETTY LIGHTS" and taking a CLOSER LOOK at what happened AFTER the "sighting"?

Do you people NOT hunt? Have you never hunted deer, elk, antelope? And if you are a BIG GAME hunter... even better... YOU understand the concept of CORALLING... HMMMMM.... anything jumping out as "correlating" in this matrix??

What about the word "snare"? *evilgrin*

Did ANYONE take time to CONFIRM or DENY the claims made regarding the AH? (Alienhunter)

You have just successfully banished an innocent man, when evidence that, at the VERY LEAST, would have made you STOP in your tracks to "reconsider" your position...

JUST by referencing the Book of Job as a SCIENTIFIC and HISTORICAL REFERENCE. PERIOD.

He came in here looking for answers. He FEELS his experience... b/c he KNOWS it was REAL... as were the rest of them he's described to me. I think he may be a bit confused about their capabilities... hence... the belief in all the "star wars" "CIA" "Buck Rogers" screensavers... I mean it seems REAL. Probably not unlike the "holodeck" on Next Gen... just to offer a "real" reference... wow... I'm noting I just referenced "star trek" as "real" LMAO!!!!

Just my 2, but I think we rushed this guy, crucified him, were investigating something NONE of us are qualified to investigate... and then BANISHED him.. having ISOLATED him further.

Remember... there IS a member stating that there's a good possibility that ISOLATION is PART of their PLAN. That would require Humanity to stand as ONE... Not judge somebody's story from thousands of miles away... no matter HOW KEWL your setup is...

Keep in mind... If we are stretching the envelope here... then we MUST consider the possibility that whatever YOU thought you saw in that video is PRECISELY what they WANT YOU TO SEE.

HMMMMMMM....

Kinda hard to get your mind around that, isn't it? Yeah... I know...

SPout

Originally posted by SkepticGreek74
I don't think Frozenthought was proven a hoaxster...not by a long shot!
His banning and then his video being labeled a hoax is at the very least suspicious to say the least!

Good job Springer, yet another informant silenced! Are you on the governments payroll or what? The reason more serious people don't post their pictures and videos is because they know they are wasting their time and will eventually get banned! Thats my opinion and many will probably disagree but I have to call a spade a spade!

End of story. I think I have said enough!

You actually said to much. One of my brothers aways says "don't crap in the kitchen". You did that. You come into this forum and undermine the credible workers that spend their lives to keep this forum clean, smooth and fast. You should thank Springer for being patient with you and apologize for your behavior. My question is "Why are you still here?".

EDIT: REDIRECT to SPRINGER PRIOR TO POST.

SP

[edit on 23/202/07 by Southpaw11]

Originally posted by groingrinder
Please present a picture that shows the same plane at the range of the video objects. Also please understand that what you capture in a film still camera, with your eyeball, and with a video camera are all going to be different.

This is a pretty good comparison below originally posted by JH80.





To everyone asking abot the ban. This guy said he lives on the waterfront and regularly sees UFOs there. To not notice that planes are constantly landing in the vicinity that the camera was pointing is absurd beyond belief! Then to say about getting beaten up by an unknown person (MIB? oooh it must be true!) which he has no recolection of and put it together with this plane approach video, is ridiculous and stinks of BS imo.
Besides, he was quoting badly and ignored warnings.

[edit on 23-2-2007 by Xeros]

Thank you Xeros, I must have glossed over that video. Please note that the video clearly shows the flashing navigational lights quite clearly and that the lights in question resolve themselves into an airplane rather quickly as the landing pattern brings the airplane close to the photographer. I know others have stated that they saw the blinking lights in FrozenThoughts video, but I could not.

Having been negatively affected by the Zeta Talk fiasco with Nancy Lieder, I am eager to bring hoaxsters into the limelight where they can be tarred, feathered, and run out of town. However, in this day of concerted and sophisticated disinformation campaigns, it is really hard to tell who the real debunkers are and who are the disinformation agents. Because I have seen so many UFO's over my lifetime I am quick to jump on the bandwagon to champion those who are being attacked by the feral packs of rabid skeptics who roam this website.

People who see a genuine UFO "know" that it is not a conventional craft. When you are in the proximity of objects from outside our known universe, you experience a mental shift that does not occur when you see an airplane or helicopter. Time does strange things and things get "dreamy" and sometimes surreal.

Originally posted by Xeros

Originally posted by groingrinder

To everyone asking abot the ban. This guy said he lives on the waterfront and regularly sees UFOs there. To not notice that planes are constantly landing in the vicinity that the camera was pointing is absurd beyond belief! Then to say about getting beaten up by an unknown person (MIB? oooh it must be true!) which he has no recolection of and put it together with this plane approach video, is ridiculous and stinks of BS imo.
Besides, he was quoting badly and ignored warnings.

[edit on 23-2-2007 by Xeros]

Okay. Now... take off the Judge's wig and put down the mallet *evilgrin* ... put on the ATS TEAM hat. Right? Cmon... don't leave me hangin, man!!

YES. ABSOLUTELY. With regard to what you have brought in on the video. YES. OUTSTANDING. THIS looks JUST LIKE AN AIRCRAFT. Okay.

Now...

THAT is ALL we KNOW. Right? Gotta be honest. That's it... nothing more. nothing less. We have a decision to make at this juncture of the investigation. We can (a) discount the rest of the story b/c THIS is a deadringer (which it is, by the way, well done!); (b) RESERVE JUDGEMENT and continue our UNBIASED and OBJECTIVE investigation, because WE at ATS KNOW that we are UNAWARE of the TRUTH at this time. Right?

If we are to engage a SUPERIOR TECHNOLOGY... an entity that probably has a SUPERIOR MIND (NOT the gray - but his "supervisors")... Then should we not presume the possibility of SUPERIOR STRATEGY and TACTICS as well?

They have our collective weakness EASILY identifiable...

They KNOW we are VAIN. donchathink? It could be right out in the middle of everybody... and we would DENY it if it wasn't just what we wanted it to be... because WE can do that... WE don't have to answer to ANYBODY... do we? *evilgrin*

So, in summary, your assessment is GREAT... right up to the point where we got judgemental... lost our objectivity... and, hence, destroyed the investigation, as the member has now been banned.

If nothing else, I can tell you THIS with confidence, Folks. THIS is not going to be a frontal attack like in the movie Independence Day... in fact... I could show you, over the course of a LONG saturday afternoon, how THAT movie is PROBABLY a good portion of the contemporary disinformation that allows you all to believe that THEY THINK LIKE US.

We have to rethink everything from warfare to brushing our teeth to comprehend this adversary/savior.... depending upon your current personal opinion.

Again, outstanding work! NOW let's examine the EVENT that came AFTER the sighting. THAT is where you are going to find your TRUTH. Whether we realize it yet or not... Did you review his answers to those ID questions? He's definitely got activity going on. And if he's human, just like you or me, he's scared. Wouldn't YOU be? He's also HOPEFUL... and, due to the information I have seen myself, that is available to anybody here, I can assess his description of these "screensavers" as DEVIATION from the REALITY of the event...

Now if THAT doesn't sound NUTS, then I don't what could. But that's it... in a nutshell bro...

SPout.

[edit on 23/202/07 by Southpaw11]