On to something huge here! (UFO HOAX)

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posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 04:06 AM
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Originally posted by air5five
Ok, I have to speak up now.

If there is a line drawn in the sand of this thread, I am standing on FrozenThought's side.

There's a witch hunt mentality that crops up now and then here that I thought at first was due to old-time ufologists being (understandably) fed up with hoaxes. And I've told myself, "just hang around and be patient, and see how this community operates."

So here goes: totally subjective: I feel that Frozenthought is absolutely genuine in his reaction to his video during the footage, and in his posts here on ATS. I haven't seen ANYTHING to the contrary in his presentation of the materials that makes me think he is hoaxing in the least.

He may be wrong - it may be planes he filmed - but I deeply believe that he is presenting what he saw as he saw it. I'm actually shocked that anyone thinks he is hoaxing. He doesn't seem to have the personality type at all (unlike the poster on the thread I mentioned above).

That is my sad little 2cents!


I respect your opinion, air5Five, but there is no witch hunt here. I, too, was impressed by the video on first viewing. But the accumulation of evidence presented right at the start of this thread that Frozenthought has filmed aircraft is overwhelming and irrefutible. Now, if Frozen was genuinely unaware of what the lights were when he filmed them, he would surely have accepted the evidence presented before him and congratulated those who put the effort into explaining the lights. Instead, he attacked their input. Why would a sincere person do this?

Then ask yourself how could anyone spend 4 years filming close to an international airport and be totally oblivious to the traffic flying overhead. Frozenthought's initial denial of the evidence was at first confusing, but when it was revealed that he was producing a commercial UFO documentary the whole agenda became clear.

This is no witch hunt.




posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 04:29 AM
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origianly posted by jh80

Let's make it easier, do you admit that the first video I posted looked a lot like what you filmed? Because both videos I have posted are of planes.... THAT IS A FACT! [\quote]



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 11:52 AM
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Springer, I don't usually pose something off topic, but I just gotta in this case...


If the soup gets too stinky ATS will not be available to the cook any longer.


That is one of the most hillarious lines I have read in a long time! I'm gonna use it, if that's ok.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 02:49 PM
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After seeing the screen shots jh80 put up of his airplane footage it is decision time here in UFO Forum... Normally I would simply ban Frozenthought straight away for posting a hoax BUT since this is has stirred up so many Members and generated some AWESOME Ignorance Denial and Critical Thought I've decided to put it to a vote.


All those in favor us banning FrozenThought for "posting knowingly FALSE information" on ATS simply reply with the word BAN.

All those in favor of allowing FrozenThought to remain a member of ATS simply reply with the word FAN.

Let's see what the Community has to say.


Springer...



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 02:54 PM
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After all things considered...

FAN



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by Springer
After seeing the screen shots jh80 put up of his airplane footage it is decision time here in UFO Forum... Normally I would simply ban Frozenthought straight away for posting a hoax BUT since this is has stirred up so many Members and generated some AWESOME Ignorance Denial and Critical Thought I've decided to put it to a vote.


All those in favor us banning FrozenThought for "posting knowingly FALSE information" on ATS simply reply with the word BAN.

All those in favor of allowing FrozenThought to remain a member of ATS simply reply with the word FAN.

Let's see what the Community has to say.


Springer...


i have said, What JH80 filmed in his 2nd film shot on the next day that shows a plane looks nothing like my footage, i stand by that. His video shot on the first day does look like mine, and that doesn't surprise me, Many people have been seeing & filming these objects, i have even posted some others footage.

The first clip doesn't look like a plane and it never does, JH80 even said...

"August 31 2006: I filmed two orbs of light, they appeared to be part of the same object. They moved silently and very slowly across the sky. Both lights appeared to be glittering or twinkling. The lights eventually dissapeared behind some trees. At the time I could not explain them.

so it looks like to me on day 1 perhaps he did film one of these objects, he said he couldn't identify it so he went out the next day and filmed a plane.

JH80 went on to explain why clip #2 doesn't look as much like what I filmed...
Regarding clip #2 "maybe not as much as the first one I posted, but that is only because the plane was closer to me and flying at a different angle."

If you have to explain why the clip doesn't look like my footage, that only says one thing, it doesn't look like my footage.

The first clip is interesting though, i think he might have filmed one of these same objects on day1, day #2, I don't think so.



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by davidbiedny
Michael,

It's amazing, you can actually split a clip into TWO pieces, and then the whole thing will fit up on Youtube.

Creative problem solving is just sooooo much fun.

OK, last post of mine on this thread. Hopefully.

dB


splitting up a video is like when we used to listen to 8 tracks and it would change tracks right in the middle of a song.

You release your own video however you see fit and let me worry about mine.

[edit on 17-2-2007 by Frozenthought]



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by Stoo
I think instead of more fuel on the fire, both yours and davidbiedny's comments have pretty much covered it in flame-retardant foam..

I too have checked out the footage, and commentary on the location and direction of these lights.. planes going into cleveland hopkins from either a holding pattern or somewhere around detroit - it's immensely simple to match up the location and flightpaths in google earth.

Put a fork in it - it's done.

[edit on 16-2-2007 by Stoo]


Detroit??????????????? that is some 3 hours away, now that makes sense, are you people just grasping at straws?



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 03:10 PM
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Late as Usua


Look people... this guy has been through MORE than ANYBODY is accepting. If he gets ANGRY UPSET or EMOTIONAL about this... it is NOT because he is being a "pouty baby" about it.

He's NOT getting through to you...

HE is JOB

YOU are JOB's THREE FRIENDS that came to mourn with him

Instead of LAUGHING. GO dust off your Bible... OPEN IT... and READ the Book of Job. HE was an abductee....

Go check it out... It will expand your conciousness.

It even explains the "rules of engagement" to ABDUCTION. Seriously.

Check it out... READ IT then come scream at me!


Yeah... FROZEN STAYS. And everyone should make effort to trust... to RESERVE JUDGEMENT...

Perhaps there's more to the story... that of which you or I are unaware perhaps...

SPout.



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by air5five
Ok, I have to speak up now.

If there is a line drawn in the sand of this thread, I am standing on FrozenThought's side.

I've been lurking in this thread for a while now because I don't have anything analytical or rational to contribute and I'm not qualified to help determine what it is in his videos.

So I've kept quiet because my MO at ATS has been to try and seek out facts. But now I'm getting really disillusioned about ATS in general. There's a witch hunt mentality that crops up now and then here that I thought at first was due to old-time ufologists being (understandably) fed up with hoaxes. And I've told myself, "just hang around and be patient, and see how this community operates."

But now, I'm just going to do what I usually find valueless in other posters and say what I feel instead of what I think. And poor you, Frozenthought, having me as a defender, because my credibility is pretty much shot (especially in my own mind) for initially getting excited about the Air Force footage (different thread).

So here goes: totally subjective: I feel that Frozenthought is absolutely genuine in his reaction to his video during the footage, and in his posts here on ATS. I haven't seen ANYTHING to the contrary in his presentation of the materials that makes me think he is hoaxing in the least.

He may be wrong - it may be planes he filmed - but I deeply believe that he is presenting what he saw as he saw it. I'm actually shocked that anyone thinks he is hoaxing. He doesn't seem to have the personality type at all (unlike the poster on the thread I mentioned above).

That is my sad little 2cents!


thank you so much, it is nice to hear kind words from nice people, it is a wonderful change of pace :-)



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by VType
Wow Frozen I read and posted in your My videos on Fox thread and observed some really hard ball debunking on some members parts and some quite nasty I might add. And as I stated in the previous thread I have also witnessed many similar and not so easily explained
phonomena and much of it right here in Michigan. Ive actually seen an orb in daylight being followed or chased by Military in the UP. Very close to what you have on tape. Apparently I just saw planes landing too I guess. Funny these lights had nothing they were attached to ie planes and then we all ( the six of us camping) also observed the orb disappearing into the ground(seemingly) while the chase craft circled extensively above.
Now I can understand some of the debunkers claims seeing as the proxiemety to the airports and such but honestly they werent there and You were so they need to take a step back on the personal attacks. And for you to be constantly bombarded with claims of you creating false ufo hype by a select few here is definately out of line on their part. I see it this way if a man says he see's something and Im not there to see it or offer insightit I have no right to tell him what he is seeing isnt real or is fabricated. Ive been around 40 some years and around the globe(ex military) and Ive seen things that are not easily explainable if at all. And I believe you. So there you go debunkers. Hows that you pressed so hard to slander the guy I went the other way. Keep up the good work frozen and if you are true to what you say and believe then nothing they do or say will change the actual truth. And Im a firm believer in there is More than Meets the Eye.


Thank you for your words of support, Peace!!!!

I guess when these others have seen these objects as well, I hope they remember back to how they acted on this thread, it won't be long.



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 03:17 PM
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The BAN or FAN of FrozenThought count stands at:

2 for allowing FrozenThought to remain a member and 0 for banning him for knowingly posting FALSE information (Hoaxing)...

Let's get the votes in, I don't have all day.


Springer...

[edit on 2-17-2007 by Springer]



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by Southpaw11
Late as Usua


Look people... this guy has been through MORE than ANYBODY is accepting. If he gets ANGRY UPSET or EMOTIONAL about this... it is NOT because he is being a "pouty baby" about it.

He's NOT getting through to you...

HE is JOB
Perhaps there's more to the story... that of which you or I are unaware perhaps...

SPout.


thank you, yes, I know I have been abducted both by ET, which was not a bad event, even though I did have some blood the next day, there was no pain. Then the goverment/ military took me to see what group #1 had done, that was like a horror movie that I woke up in the middle of.



[edit on 2-17-2007 by Springer]



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 03:24 PM
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You have been asked several times to TRIM the QUOTES, I am going to ban you for continuous big quotes that if you keep it up!
The database doesn't need to reproduce posts TWICE.

TRIM THE QUOTES or DON'T QUOTE

Springer...



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 03:24 PM
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Knowingly false? Hard to see it otherwise, based on his lack of seeking or accepting legitimate verification or critique.

At least I know not to watch the upcoming DVD.

BAN



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 03:25 PM
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Cmon Frozen, when you continue to spam, I am sure you will get banned regardless of the result of the vote...

ouch..springer was faster than me-..-



[edit on 17-2-2007 by manastin]



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 03:27 PM
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FAN

Whether or not the footage is a UFO or known craft, I don't believe Frozen had any malice intent in sharing it. It certainly looked interesting to me, and has spurred interesting pro/con debate, which only enlivens the site that much more IMHO.

[edit on 17-2-2007 by DimensionalDetective]



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 03:28 PM
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As a good piece of advice for anyone else, when several Moderators and finally one of the owners of a site ask you to comply with guidelines of that site it's best to just do it and not be an arsehole.


BANNED...

Springer...

[edit on 2-17-2007 by Springer]



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by Springer

All those in favor us banning FrozenThought for "posting knowingly FALSE information" on ATS simply reply with the word BAN.

All those in favor of allowing FrozenThought to remain a member of ATS simply reply with the word FAN.


Neither, but I'll stick around to watch the show.



edit to add...


Originally posted by Springer
BANNED...

Springer...



aw, shucks.

Quick trigger finger there, Springer.



[edit on 2/17/2007 by Mechanic 32]

[edit on 2/17/2007 by Mechanic 32]



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 03:51 PM
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Seriously, our community is full of extremely intelligent people who broke this hoax down and presented their findings in a very polite and professional manner.

I realized this was a scam based on the acidic response FZ had to people who were genuinely trying to help him understand what he saw. Someone who was not hoaxing and truly wanted to understand what they saw/filmed would NOT have reacted that way.

Additionally, when you add up the FACT the guy left out HUGE portions of KNOWN data, like he was filming in the glide path and holding pattern airspace for a MAJOR International Airport(!) with the FACT he is trying to sell a DVD the writing on the wall becomes very clear.

I wanted to be fair and see if he would come clean but alas it was not meant to be. TYPICAL.


Springer...

[edit on 2-17-2007 by Springer]





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