Islamofascists Disembowel, Draw and Quarter school teacher !!!

Originally posted by rdang
Ok,I looked at your posts and you seem obsessed with defending them.

Show me where I've defended them. Just show me where I've tried to justify anything like the violence in the incident cited in this thread. There are people whose country has been invaded, and they have the right to drive out the invaders. It's as simple as that. But defending religious extremism... just show me where.

What I have done is try to deny the sloppy ignorance of bandying the word "islamofascist" about. There are people who, because they don't want to bother to think and make distinctions between different kinds of people, use "islamofascists" indiscriminately. It's not very intelligent. For example, your remark

Iran has been supplying arms to the terrorists in Iraq for some time

Really? Which terrorists? How many different factions are at work in Iraq? To which ones does Iran supply arms? Might there be any other reasons apart from "Islamofascism" that they are doing so? Have you any idea about these questions, or are these people just "Islamonazis" to you, because if that's the case, then you have no hope of understanding what's going on out there - and therefore anything you have to say about it will be completely without merit.

You also seem to go out of your way to to bad mouth the US. and Israel.

The rhetoric of the US is that it stands for freedom and democracy, when the opposite is actually the case. I'm just denying ignorance, and there's a lot of it on these boards, frankly. As for Israel, I grew up with the idea that plucky little Israel were defending themselves against the Arab hordes, and as I grew up and watched the news more carefully, I realised that this was perhaps a convenient oversimplification.

I might not agree with Iraq policy,but I don't hope the US loses there either.

How will you know if they've won?

I also believe that the US is better than the terrorists or Iran. Both now seem to have their eyes on Iraq. .Ahmadinejad is a islamonazi wanting to exterminate the jews,I have no doubt given the chance he would do it.

Iran has several interests in this matter. They'd like to stop the refugees streaming across the border. They'd like to defend the Shias from Sunni violence. They'd like stability in Iraq. They'd like Israel to give the Palestinians an even break. Have you read any of Ahmedinejad's letters or speeches? I doubt it.

[edit on 30-11-2006 by rich23]

..is not just confined to Islam.

However, lately it seems popular to imagine that this behaviour is beneath the "civilized west", while somehow this behaviour is acceptable to the Muslim people of the World.

If you want a bit of an insight into the topic try here.

an extract..

Many experts and analysts refer to the rise of Islamist terrorism as a new phenomenon, more deadly and more obtuse than the more traditional terrorism associated with separatist and nationalist movements. Some refer to the Islamists as if they are some mysterious and incomprehensible mutation - suicidal fanatics who make no demands and take no credit for their acts of terror. In fact, there are surprising similarities between Islamic, Christian and Jewish Fundamentalists. Religious fundamentalists often share some common traits and motivations with secular dissidents engaged in political violence. But perhaps the most disturbing situation is the convergence of fundamentalist interests and the potential for a global holy war, with ground zero being Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

You don't often hear about this kind of stuff, do you?

In the US, Christian fundamentalism has focused on, and enjoyed success at gains through the ballot box. Nonetheless Christian Fundamentalists also resort to violence. Religious extremists have attacked abortion clinics, doctors and patients in acts of terrorism. In Northern Ireland, Protestant extremists continue violent attacks against Catholics on the streets and in their homes. This form of terrorism rarely makes the world news but the assaults and fire bombings have an effect similar to the US serial sniper murders. In November 2002, members of a Protestant terrorist group actually crucified a Catholic man.

Surely not the innocent god fearing Jews!

Little wonder that Israeli Defense Forces feel free to invade and re-occupy Palestinian territory at will, or that Zionist settlers feel justified in driving Palestinians from the land and establishing new settlements, with little concern that they might some day be required to return to their internationally mandated borders. Militant Zionist settlers continually attack Palestinians, though such assaults are rarely reported in the media. However, they’ve also pulled off some high-profile terrorist attacks. In 1994, Baruch Goldstein, armed with an assault rifle, stormed a mosque in Hebron, killing 29 Muslim worshippers and wounded 150. Goldstein, a member of terrorist Kach movement, was beaten to death, but was hailed as a martyr by militant Zionists. This was not an isolated act. Yigal Amir later assassinated Israeli Prime Minister Yitzak Rabin in an effort to thwart the peace process. Fundamentalist Jews continue to oppose the peace process that could result in their being expelled from their illegal settlements in the West Bank and Gaza.

Is this kind of unacceptable behavoiur limited to Islam? I think not.

Deny Ignorance.

Do these Dispicable acts happen several times on every day of every week of every month of every year outside of Islamic violence ?

No one is stupid enough to think this only happens within Islamic circles but to no where near the extent.

Most Muslims are NOT terrorists, Most Terrorists ARE Muslims !!

Can you deny that statement ?

Originally posted by Sri Oracle
I am not going to say I support drawing and quartering... but I would like to add some perspective...

Consider the possibility that teaching girls algebra leads to women having 9-5 jobs working for the corporation.

Consider the possibility that what you call education is actually indoctrination into NWO neo-capitalism.

Consider the fact that in America... where women are educated, and hold high degrees there is no one home with children. Both parents work AWAY from the home; at the corporation for the man. With a 10 gallon per week commute each.

Under the Taliban, women are at home with their children.

Under the Bush Administration; back here in the states, children are at home with cable and video games or off at daycare.

Some still believe that there is a distinct role for men and there is a distinct role for women.

I am one of them,

Sri Oracle

I am surprised ATS members have not hung you on site for your words!



I get what your getting at... and forgive me if my explanation is not adequate because I have no time to contemplate my response..

It is extremely complicated.. that is, where does education, progress, advancement of the race, wealth collide with... happiness, culture, heritage and religion. What I am trying to say is, a women who works 9-5 down town in a cubicle working for a man (most likely) in a, usually unfulfilling job struggling with bills, kids sports, a failing marriage (around 55% of all American marriages end in divorce) ... are they happy women? Are the women in the work place happier then men because they get to work?

I would say no. In fact... I would hazard a guess that women who stay home, bringing up the kids, taking care of the home.. would have a more personally fulfilling life then working in a cubicle. Our society puts so much pressure on disregarding the past, the way things ran for 6,000 years of civilization for the sake of progress that we loose our identity, and our personal fulfillment. America is the worst at this no doubt.. Why is that Ireland, Luxembourg and the Netherlands where all ranked 1,2 and 3 in happiest population? All three are small, quiet countries that are modernizing while holding onto cultural identity and do not have this bustling on the go must get to the top attitude.

So I will not disagree with you in the sense that there is indeed a parental identity missing from America, though it should never be forced upon any women, and they should never be denied education.. it is primal (yeah, we are animals) that women are care takers.

I am sure I have lost all respect of the female community now!

Well, i'd probably suggest that the indiscriminate invasion of Iraq and Afganistan has something to do with the upsurge in this kind of behaviour..

In the words of Pope John Paul II

The spread of terrorism across the world "calls for firmness and decision, in fighting the workers of death," the Pope said. But he quickly added that the decisive action against terrorism should not take the form of a military campaign. "Violence begets violence," he said. "War must always be considered a defeat: a defeat of reason and of humanity." He argued that world leaders should seek to root out the primary causes of terrorism, "especially misery, desperation and the emptiness in hearts."

tcrnews2.com...

Even the U.S administration has agreed that the Iraq war has increased global terrorism..

ADMINSTRATION ADMITS: IRAQ WAR CREATES MORE TERRORISM

The responsibilty for this horrendous crime need to placed fairly on the perpetrators.

However, IMO if we want to investigate how/why there has been an upstage in this kind of violence i think we need to look a bit deeper.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
You loosely justify the murderous ways of the Islamofascist Taliban because you are a sexist ?

No. I stated clearly that I did not support the drawing and quartering. All I did was channel their rationale.

If supporting societal pressures which result in traditional family values is sexist... than yes... I am sexist.

On the subject of Islamofascist however, a quote from George Orwell:

"It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless."

What you encounter here is terrorism. An attempt to demand societal change through fear and violence.

Perhaps you should use Islamoterrorist? If anything, a more suited use of -ofacisist might be neoconofascist, no?

There is literally 100s of millions of Uneducated people working in this world.

And 100s of Millions of Educated Mums whom CHOOSE to stay home raising a family !

There are literally hundreds...

(that was a jab... smile)

but might we not conclude as a matter of intuition... when we have a society in which the male is the one educated in affiars outside the household and the female is educated in the affairs inside the houshold; there is a better likelyhood that there will be at least one caretaker (the mum) inside the household. As opposed to a society where both parents are schooled in affairs of the outside world; college educated.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I am surprised ATS members have not hung you on site for your words!

I get what your getting at... and forgive me if my explanation is not adequate because I have no time to contemplate my response..

I try to keep at least a few degrees of sublimity to my discourse. 'Wouldn't be right not to at least keep a fire in the pants of those less than middling.

We see eye to eye for the most part on the subject, Rockpuck.

I am,

Sri Oracle

Am I missing something? People are complaining about what is happening in Afghanistan? A country that has already been invaded and is currently occupied by foreign powers?

If you're so outraged by what just happened in an occupied territory, why isn't your outrage focused at the occupational forces who clearly haven't done the job you want done?

Originally posted by rich23

Originally posted by rdang
Ok,I looked at your posts and you seem obsessed with defending them.

Show me where I've defended them. Just show me where I've tried to justify anything like the violence in the incident cited in this thread. There are people whose country has been invaded, and they have the right to drive out the invaders. It's as simple as that. But defending religious extremism... just show me where.


Correct. Defending, a poor choice,I apologize.

Iran has been supplying arms to the terrorists in Iraq for some time

Really? Which terrorists? How many different factions are at work in Iraq? To which ones does Iran supply arms? Might there be any other reasons apart from "Islamofascism" that they are doing so? Have you any idea about these questions, or are these people just "Islamonazis" to you, because if that's the case, then you have no hope of understanding what's going on out there - and therefore anything you have to say about it will be completely without merit.


Well you can start here:Al-Sadr's Mahdi army.Here is a link:abcnews.go.com... islamofacists,islamonazi: Seems fitting to me. Matches their actions.

I also believe that the US is better than the terrorists or Iran. Both now seem to have their eyes on Iraq. .Ahmadinejad is a islamonazi wanting to exterminate the jews,I have no doubt given the chance he would do it.

Iran has several interests in this matter. They'd like to stop the refugees streaming across the border. They'd like to defend the Shias from Sunni violence. They'd like stability in Iraq. They'd like Israel to give the Palestinians an even break. Have you read any of Ahmedinejad's letters or speeches? I doubt it.


Right,they would like to control Iraq like they do Lebanon. They would like to wipe Israel off the map. His letters are B S. Does anyone really believe this man ?

[edit on 30-11-2006 by rdang]

Originally posted by Frith
Am I missing something? People are complaining about what is happening in Afghanistan? A country that has already been invaded and is currently occupied by foreign powers?

If you're so outraged by what just happened in an occupied territory, why isn't your outrage focused at the occupational forces who clearly haven't done the job you want done?

Because the Liberators arnt the ones going around ripping the Gut out of people and strewing there body limps everywhere, that would be the Islamofascists doing this.

Your same flawed argument could be wrongly used in nearly every aspect of life, ie/ Blame the Police for someones Murder because it wouldnt of happened if theyd arrested the would be murderer before the crime!

Sorry to hear you feel more outrage towards the Coalition than these Demons whom kill innocent Educators.

Ahhhh. I'm seeing it now. I do see some sexism and roles men feel women should have here. Wow....I'm blown away.

I think denying a woman an education is sad. And shows me people are afraid of the system of male control might tumble.

Women are people and should have just as much of a right as some posters to go to school, and if they want a job fine. If they want to stay home fine.

If you think women should only stay home. Then more power to you.

Don't define the roles by limiting the education of a woman, because you feel women are better nurturers and can cook a good meal.

That woman scientist might help cure cancer, oh wait nope she wa at home washing your clothes.

In southern Thailand,Islamic terrorists have burned 10 schools,
To destroy educating of the new small CELLS.

They want to take the land apart from Thailand rules,to found the Islamic state of Pattani.

Today,schools are closed for a week.
I feel the terror rising and it never calm down...

And to the point man,It's just the small group of Islam that making the major problem in the world.I know the pure Islamic never let the craziness of some people spreading forever.

Evil will lose.

[edit on 30-11-2006 by The Member]

Originally posted by sbob
Women are people and should have just as much of a right as some posters to go to school, and if they want a job fine. If they want to stay home fine.

If you think women should only stay home...

I didn't get that impression from what they said, and I'm a woman. I never got the feeling that it would be "okay" to want to stay home with the kids. It was about college, and what do you want to do when you grow up? If I had said, take care of my family and raise my kids, people would have looked at me like I was crazy.

Instead, every single one of us is supposed to be a friggin superhero, excelling at work, and then coming home to another job.

I agree with Rockpuck and Sri Oracle, it would be nice to have a choice.

[edit on 30-11-2006 by HarlemHottie]

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
Because the Liberators arnt the ones going around ripping the Gut out of people and strewing there body limps everywhere, that would be the Islamofascists doing this.

Your same flawed argument could be wrongly used in nearly every aspect of life, ie/ Blame the Police for someones Murder because it wouldnt of happened if theyd arrested the would be murderer before the crime!

Sorry to hear you feel more outrage towards the Coalition than these Demons whom kill innocent Educators.

You're complaining about this event because you want to paint a large swath of people of the islamic faith as crazed murderers. Pointing out this story and using it to prop up the already failed War on Terror.

You got what you wanted. Afghanistan is already occupied by "liberators". You should be complaining directly at them for not doing the job you wanted done.

Originally posted by HarlemHottie

Instead, every single one of us is supposed to be a friggin superhero, excelling at work, and then coming home to another job.

I agree with Rockpuck and Sri Oracle, it would be nice to have a choice.

I think youve got it all wrong, its the Talibans wifes that have no choice, you wether you realise it or not have thousands of choices, you CHOOSE to work and raise a family at the same time, you CHOSE to go to college, you made every choice in your life for your self after 18 probably.

People choose to have ridiculous mortages or live in expensive rent areas or own expensive cars that inturn force both parents to work to pay for the over indulgance, dont go running around blaming others for your own choices just doesnt work that way.

btw Sri Oracle wasnt offering a choice he is saying women must stay at home!

Actually i beleive the reason why Realestate is so expensive now a days is because Women CHOOSE to work, if they all stayeyd at home having kids or watching sopa operas Millions of couples wouldnt have such big dispensible incomes to afford expensive Homes and there fore the prices would be much lower!

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
you CHOOSE to work and raise a family at the same time...

Um, actually, I don't. I don't have any kids... but, for those who do, the cost of living has increased exponentially with no corresponding increase in wages. In my neighborhood, rent has gone up ridiculously in the last few years.

What were you saying about a choice?

btw Sri Oracle wasnt offering a choice he is saying women must stay at home!

You're right. I was just so pleased to see that POV that I just kinda scanned the rest. I agree with Rockpuck, in that women should have a choice either way, not this 'cultural coercion' that makes you feel like a freak if you're not career-minded.

Actually i beleive the reason why Realestate is so expensive now a days is because Women CHOOSE to work

That might be true, except, put it in the past tense. Today's women don't have much of a choice, real estate is already exorbitant. The trend was already well underway by the time we were born.

I think a little moderation here is a good thing.

There's a little too much black and white going on.

I do not believe that the Taliban has ANY right to existance. Not because of what they believe, but because of what they choise to do when they came into power. They are NOT representitive of the Islamic Faith. They abused their faith and the power that was given to them (largely by the US).

I agree with action in Afganistan, despite my condemnation of "The War on Terror" as a whole. The Taliban was installed by American hardware and funding. That makes them a responcibility of the US. Since they have such a poor trackrecord for rebuilding and aiding the PEOPLE of the nations they become involved with, I support international action there.

However, let us not lose sight of the fact that we, The West, are not unflawed. We have our failures. On the issue of women having to work without a choice, you can throw up any excuse you like and it's still a symptem of a failure in our system.

We should not be forcing our (flawed) system on anyone else. We should support them in their freedom to find a system that works for them. The Taliban's system not only didn't work, it's very nature was a crime against humanity.

Edit to Add: I don't believe in violance as a way to solve problems, but if I were to lay hands on the man (or men) responcible for this act, I would gladly make him (or them) scream. Alot. There are worse things than disembowelment.

Would solve anything, but it sure would be satisfying.

[edit on 1-12-2006 by BitRaiser]

Originally posted by 11Bravo
Can you title a thread without the use of the term 'islamofascist'?
You appear to suffer from a phobia.
Too bad you didnt grow up in the land of the free and the home of the brave, like me, because I dont fear 'islamofascists'.
I couldnt imagine living under the constant spectre of fear that you do.
How do you handle it? Does it keep you up at night worrying about the 'islamofascist'?

Seriously, with stories in the news about militaristic police actions resulting in the shooting death of innocent Americans, your only concern seems to be some foreign men in a foreign land doing heinous things.

Dont you care what is happening in America, or are you more interested in fostering hate of foreigners in far away lands?
That is what you are doing, make no mistake. You generalize an entire people when you use derogatory terms like 'islamofascist', and you imply that America has the right and duty to impose our beliefs on a people that have been around long before we have.
You probably dont see the irony in the fact that you call them 'islamofascist' and say that we need to 'liberate' them by imposing our standards on them.

Its classic double think.

Those people are terrible, horrible animals that want to rule the world, so lets just bomb the snot out of them, build military bases all around their land, and force them to live and think like we do.....
Who is the fascist again?

You've got some nerve criticizing this guy. Here you call him out for reffering to those "people" as "islamofacists" (which is pretty kind, if you ask me) and in the same breath jump on the "police kill the innocent" bandwagon. Its a bunch of media propagated bs. The old lady shot 3 three cops and they did find weed. The other kid who got shot a night before his wedding was DRIVING AT THE COPS AND IGNORING ORDERS TO STOP... so whatever. They had it coming.

And so I can assume that you think we should do nothing to rest for the world then?

Originally posted by NumberCruncher

Originally posted by centurion1211

And for the poster above that "was just trying to find something positive in all this".

Im the poster above and i dont get what you mean ?

Please explain.

I've a feeling he was actually referring to me. I believe he misunderstood my point to mean "trying to put a positive spin on this" which was absolutely not what it was. All I was trying to do was push the discussion away from generalized insults and such. All I was trying to do was make this thread have a purpose other than that -- insults and such.

But some people don't think before they type. Much less before they speak I would imagine.

Originally posted by rdang

Originally posted by rich23

Iran has been supplying arms to the terrorists in Iraq for some time

Really? Which terrorists? How many different factions are at work in Iraq? To which ones does Iran supply arms? Might there be any other reasons apart from "Islamofascism" that they are doing so? Have you any idea about these questions, or are these people just "Islamonazis" to you, because if that's the case, then you have no hope of understanding what's going on out there - and therefore anything you have to say about it will be completely without merit.

Well you can start here:Al-Sadr's Mahdi army.

No, I was asking you. I already know about the Mahdi army, thanks. I'll ask you again: how many different factions are at work in Iraq? I have some idea, but I know that my knowledge is not complete and that the situation is more complex than I can know. If you think that putting a link to one story about the Mahdi army is a sufficient response, think again. All you're doing is confessing your intellectual laziness.

You could have a look at this article which would give you an idea of how things look from the Iraqi point of view. Don't worry, it's written by an American, and he's actually scrupulously fair in what he reports. There are things in there that make the Shia look bad, you'll be happy to know. BUT it gives an idea of how many different factions there are, who supports them and why.

However, as it portrays the people concerned as people rather than "islamofascists", you'll probably lose interest after the first few sentences.

You, on the other hand, want to see things in black and white, good and evil, because it's nice and simple. Well, reality is more complicated than that, and while it may give you a nice buzz to take the moral high ground and demonise these people as evil, all it makes you is a tool of the US government, in whose interests it is that the majority of the population dehumanise Iraqis and Muslims generally.

I also believe that the US is better than the terrorists or Iran.

That is indeed your problem. You subscribe to the utter myth that the US is better than those places. This is entirely due to growing up with a sanitized version of US history and being subjected to emotional manipulation from an early age. What do you think the pledge of allegiance is? It's thought control. One of the reasons people think I'm anti-American is I insist on referring people to actual history rather than the eviscerated nonsense they are taught in the US. And trust me, I've been there, lived there for a time, and even hunted out some history textbooks in a second-hand bookstore. I was almost shocked by what I found, but, hey, I live in the UK and they never teach you about the opium wars in school here, for example.

The difference is, I know that there are things that are just not talked about, and I know that there's propaganda going on. You just lap it up, because it makes you feel good about living in the USA. The trouble is, it's all half truths. The missing facts are what make the picture complete, and you don't want to look. You get a much bigger buzz from puffing yourself up on hot air and half-truths, and demonising people whose natural resources your country wants to rip off.

One of the points I try to make is that the US is responsible for the Islamic extremism in Iran. Ever heard of President Mossadegh? He was the democratically elected President of Iran, overthrown by the CIA in a coup organised by Kermit Roosevelt in the fifties. And, yes, he was one of those Roosevelts. The CIA brought back the Shah and trained his death squads to keep the proles in line. Two decades of brutalisation and you have the reaction: an extreme form of Islam and a fundamentalist revolt.

Mossadegh's crime? He kicked out the multinationals who'd refused to renegotiate oil contracts that were an absolute rip-off of the Iranian people.

If the US had not ousted Mossadegh, Iran would still be a democracy, not a theocracy, and would probably be thoroughly secularised and "modern" by now.

Oh, and congratulations on the avatar. Maybe I should get one of a burning Stars and Stripes. But I'm not that childish. I'm here to deny ignorance, not celebrate it.

[edit on 1-12-2006 by rich23]

Originally posted by Beachcoma

Originally posted by chron
you know if you trained and armed the women of afganistan and let them go after the taliban you might not hear of them anymore.

Who says they aren't trained?

It's not the fact they're not trained, I believe it's the mindset they are not altogether prepared to take upon the male population of this religion together at once.

This is truly sad to hear of such an event. For anything to superscede the basic inscinct of man (eg religion) to this extent is amazingly depressing.

May God have mercy upon those involved (if He/She so chooses).

Take care and peace,
- Naz