It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by kindred
Well if you go around invading countries and killing innocent people on a pack of lies, what the hell do you expect.
there are plenty of Islamic countries who do not in any circumstance tolerate crime.
They do have laws and in most countries the crime rate is alot lower than America's because of there stricter laws.
This just goes to show how ignorant you are towards muslims and borders on facisim.
… which you and people like you …
They are the terrorists you should be worried about.
Hitler was an imperialist and Islamic countries are not, …
And Yes I am right, It is you who are wrong.
Flyersfan wrote
Oh brother! You really believe that all the Islamic violence around the world is because America went into Afghanistan and Iraq? That’s pathetic and uneducated.
The TERRORISTS are the terrorists I am worried about. They blow up planes, trains, and infrastructure. They have promised to destroy America if we don’t convert. THOSE are the terrorists that I worry about, and also terrorist enablers and apologists.
jrdc099 wrote:
I dont really think that anybody in the U.S. is really losing any sleep because your not happy with our foreign policy.
Originally posted by kindred
Both America & Great Britain are however responsible for the increase in violence in both Afghanistan and Iraq.
Thats a fact. You deal with it
please in future can you please refrain from resorting to insults.
It's you who supports terrorism, not me. There's no reasoning with people like you.
Maybe some day you'll wise up and realise that hatred and violence begets hatred and violence.
In that respect your no better than the muslims you despise so much.
It's that kind of attitude that fuels terrorism around the world.
It's no wonder people around the world are fed up with Americans if that's your attitude.
Rich23 wrote:
That is indeed your problem. You subscribe to the utter myth that the US is better than those places. This is entirely due to growing up with a sanitized version of US history and being subjected to emotional manipulation from an early age. What do you think the pledge of allegiance is? It's thought control. One of the reasons people think I'm anti-American is I insist on referring people to actual history rather than the eviscerated nonsense they are taught in the US. And trust me, I've been there, lived there for a time, and even hunted out some history textbooks in a second-hand bookstore. I was almost shocked by what I found, but, hey, I live in the UK and they never teach you about the opium wars in school here, for example.
The difference is, I know that there are things that are just not talked about, and I know that there's propaganda going on. You just lap it up, because it makes you feel good about living in the USA. The trouble is, it's all half truths. The missing facts are what make the picture complete, and you don't want to look. You get a much bigger buzz from puffing yourself up on hot air and half-truths, and demonising people whose natural resources your country wants to rip off.
One of the points I try to make is that the US is responsible for the Islamic extremism in Iran. Ever heard of President Mossadegh? He was the democratically elected President of Iran, overthrown by the CIA in a coup organised by Kermit Roosevelt in the fifties. And, yes, he was one of those Roosevelts. The CIA brought back the Shah and trained his death squads to keep the proles in line. Two decades of brutalisation and you have the reaction: an extreme form of Islam and a fundamentalist revolt.
Mossadegh's crime? He kicked out the multinationals who'd refused to renegotiate oil contracts that were an absolute rip-off of the Iranian people.
That, just to be clear, is terrorism. And it's not the last time the CIA would use bombs (blamed on other people, of course) in the Middle East.
quote: Originally posted by Valhall
Wait...you guys aren't listening to Sri Oracle's argument.
If we stop all our "Great Satan" ills (such as women working for a living and being able to spell their own name) you can stop all the moral decay going on in the "non-Islamofascist" world.
For instance, as you can readily denote, us working women in the western world who let other people provide our little girls with a little paper container of milk every day while they're learning needed knowledge to be a productive member of society, according to THEM, that is the reason the world's going to hell in a hand-basket.
BUT by and large our kids are NOT blowing themselves up in the midst of innocent people to just make some radical twisted religious statement on how the morally corrupt other side are showing too much cleavage - or whatever the hell the twisted morons think is worse than taking people's lives for the sake of pointing out how bad not being an Islamofascist is.
When you really put your mind to comparing the "ills" of the western world to the "means" of the sick bastards trying to make a "moral high-ground" statement...
Don't even try to make me understand your sick position in backing this type of violence...every syllable you use in that effort plants you more firmly in the "sick-bastard" category.
quote: Originally posted by jsobecky
Do not attempt to equate yourself with the Amish. They truly believe in peace and brotherhood. Your views are an abomination against God and man.
Instead of quoting Amish values, why not try to defend Sharia law? Once again, you attempt to deflect the discussion away from the real issues.
Owing debts does not exclude a woman from having children.
that is exactly what makes their beliefs perverted - using God as justification for acts which are inhuman.
Being enslaved to the views of "men" who are afraid to have their beliefs be washed in the antiseptic bath of sunlight is not much of an alternative.
quote: Apparently there are 4 men on the other side of the earth that deemed it sound and proper. That should at least feed thought before being glossed over as madness.
To what purpose? It would never result in justification for their acts
quote: No my brother. In the Lords eye... Intention is everything.
I suppose he told you this personally? He can see through your weak excuses, and justice awaits you on the other side.
I frankly don't care if you practice your views among those who willingly choose to. But when you make them a prisoner, and prohibit them from seeing how the rest of the world lives, and what choices may be made available to them - that tells me that followers of your views are nothing but cowards who intimidate the weaker among them.
quote: Originally posted by Flighty
Good lord. How did working women get brought into a subject of an afghani teacher being ripped apart for teaching girls?
A child is only at home for the first 5 years of its life, it then goes to SCHOOL between
9-3, 5 days a week.
I think a woman sitting at home twiddling her fingers during
these hours with no children in the house, would be bored. Which is when her education
and employment skills would come in handy. No one likes being unproductive.
Muslim women have big broods of children
quote: Originally posted by kindred
You generalize an entire people when you use derogatory terms like 'islamofascist', and you imply that America has the right and duty to impose our beliefs on a people that have been around long before we have.
Its classic double think.
Those people are terrible, horrible animals that want to rule the world, so lets just bomb the snot out of them, build military bases all around their land, and force them to live and think like we do.....
Who is the fascist again?
If the people of Iraq & Afghanistan are not happy with the state there countries are in, then its up to them and them alone to do something about it. It's nobody else's business but theres. So butt out.......
quote: Originally posted by FlyersFan
quote: The slaying of this poor man was a despicable act of evil, but no more so than the acts of evil that are carried out everday through out America.
Bull. There are a lot of bad things that happen in America, but it is not any wheres near the level of violence that happens when under Islamic religious law. There is a heck of a lot more and it is a heck of a lot more violent. In America crime isn't tolerated and we try to put a stop to it.
quote: Originally posted by IAF101
When was the last time an Amish teacher was killed for teaching girls ?? When was the last time an Amish terrorists flew an aeroplane into a building killing 3000 people ? What about "those" values??
Who gives a piss about their culture and their God or whatever?? Nobody anywhere does! There is only our values which are the right values, they should subscribe to them or die! And we can kill more of them than they can!
Instill values and discipline as a parent and everything can be accomplished.
If parents have no charecter by supporting a savagery, then the kid will grow up to be a savage too.
Do you suggest the "Do you want fries with that?" option ?? Or do you claim that education, sucess, hardwork and wealth are bad things because you dont have them?
burn your burka and crap, change your name and religon. Learn a civilised tounge and get an education
quote:
Apparently there are 4 men on the other side of the earth that deemed it sound and proper. That should at least feed thought before being glossed over as madness.
What they think or do is -immaterial, their exsistence -irrelevant. Humanity knows that this is barbaric and these animals should bow to humanity.
The Bible teaches very clearly that men and women are equal. But being equal in worth does not mean being the same in calling. Each has been assigned separate and distinct roles by the great Creator.
Where does 4 motorcycles and disembowelment come into picture here? Or taking a man from his wife and pleading children?
quote: Originally posted by FlyersFan
'the Man's bus' .... 'the Man's school' ... Sorry, but it really sounds like you've got some issues that need to be addressed by those comments. Please explain 'the Man' further .
If my daughter had been raised in a country that was under strict Islamic religious rule that doesn't allow education of women, she would be totally uneducated and basically a slave to be used as her father deemed necessary. Either that or she and I would be DEAD because I'd be educating her in secret.
What a waste that would be. A waste of a human life and a waste of a mind.
It is my belief that the 'intent' of those who killed the man was ... to kill the man. The intent was to murder him and leave his family in pain and poverty.
Originally posted by Sri Oracle
Option one... milk your cow and give organic milk to your children, as you impart the divine knowledge upon them necessary to serve God. Prepare them for Holy Work. Tending family fields, communicating scripture, carpentry, household chores... etc.
Originally posted by jsobecky
"If a man truely believes that what he is doing is right, and if he bolsters his "belief" with the teachings of a "holy" book, then all acts can be justified".
Once you adopt this thinking, you have free reign to commits all acts of abomination, because, after all, you believed that what you were doing was right.
Try peddling that to children and the others enslaved by your culture. It does not wash in the eyes of the free man or woman.
Originally posted by tha stillz
Flyersfan, jsobecky, you may have some factual points, but your indiference overshadow them to a point that makes me want to vomit.
My opinion: Your attitudes are the wrong one to have if you want to change peoples minds.
Originally posted by jsobecky
"If a man truely believes that what he is doing is right, and if he bolsters his "belief" with the teachings of a "holy" book, then all acts can be justified".
Once you adopt this thinking, you have free reign to commits all acts of abomination, because, after all, you believed that what you were doing was right.
11bravo wrote
Sir O,
Hats off to you for sitting down and spelling out the simplistic nature of the beast.
I wish I had your patiance and eloquence.
Unfortunatly your words will fall on deaf ears (or blind eyes as the case may be) , as the people that need to understand, the people that cannot grasp the concepts you put forth, those people will undoubtedly ingnore the soundness of your reasoning and logic.
Im amazed that the same tactics used to vilify the American Indian over the past 200+ years havent lost any of their strength.
Step 1. Find an enemy, preferably one that has something you want. (land, oil)
Step 2. Label the enemy, preferably with a derogatory name like 'Redskin' or "Islamofascist".
Step 3. De-humanize the enemy. Refer to them as 'animals' and 'savages', especailly in conjunction with the label.
Find and exploit the most outrageous behavior commited by ANY member in the enemy culture and use this as an example of behaviour by EVERY member of the enemy culture.
Step 4. Intensify the threat.
Remind people daily about these 'savages' that must be dealt with.
Have news stories and articles about how 'evil' the enemy is. If enemy is non-combative use false flag operations and political wrangling to elicit a response.
Stress the 'fact' that the enemy poses a very real threat, not just to individuals,
but to the entire world.
Step 5. Sit back and watch the peasants line up for a chance to 'stop the redman' or, in this case, the 'islamofascist'.
Originally posted by yanchek
Now replace holy book with Constitution and Bill of Rights, and there is your justification for usage of cluster bombs, white phosphorus and depleted uranium ammunition on civilian population. After all, we believe we are spreading freedom and democracy, don't we now?
Originally posted by kindred
Spot on 11Bravo, that's exactly how it is. People are being decieved by Bush & Blair and there phony war on terrorism. The only war we should be waging is against Bush & Blair and those who serve them. They are the biggest threat to Democracy and to world peace.