A Theological View of Sin

Originally posted by UnrealZA
You come across as one who is so "know-it-all" yet you have no concept of anything dealing within the realm of Theology.

Sorry about that. then....I certainly do not know it ALL - but what I DO know, I only know and have confidence in knowing because God gave me to know it....
So if my confidence in God offends you, I really can't even apologize for that. But I don't mean to offend - I am just 'fired up' pretty much 24/7.

As far as the 'realm of theology' - who needs it? Why study God when you can know Him from the inside out? Theo Logic makes more sense to me..God IS logic....but he doesn't make up new words that aren't in the bible to explain things that don't otherwise make consistent sense with what He's already given.

You have a brand of "cafeteria" religion.

Maybe so. It IS the best food I've ever had - I eat 3 meals a day there - sometimes 4!

You take what you like and pass on everything else. You speak fluff, empty words with no substance but yet you love to say things that will please men.

Pleasing men? Name one! Ha Ha! Certainly not you - I get more abuse than positive feedback for what I say than any sort of 'man-pleasing' sort would put up with...
And still, it's all good! I love all of you anyway - and you don't even make me made or even irritated...because of God's love, not mine....

...and so I will continue at spew my fluff at every possible opportunity - and the day someone 'buys' into it, I'm promptly going to give all their money back and then give glory and praise to El Elyon!!

Likewise within Theology words have be used to describe things and events. We use the word "Incarnation" to define God taking on flesh. The word itself means "in flesh". The word or phrase I used, "Hypostatic Union" defines the joining of one nature with another, one nature does not overtake the other but rather they are both equal. It's a dual nature, and in the case of Christ He was 100% God, 100% man.

Why is it necessary to use and apply words to the things learned of, in the bible, that do not come from the bible? God's word is perfect - AS IS...if He has not provided a word or description between Genesis 1:1 and Revelation 22:21 for a concept supposedly contained therein...then maybe it is actually NOT found in the bible!

For you to infer that the word is "another one of them made-up church words" is so ignorant it's ridiculous, mainly because you had to use "made-up" words to refute another "made-up word".

How so? Where did I use a made up word? I re-read my post twice - I must be missing it?

Ignorance is bliss.

Oh. Well, then cool!

I was beginning to seriously wonder if you weren't somehow being deliberately insulting with your repeated hearty assertions that I am ignorant. But now I see - you are just saying that you see how happy I truly am! Okay. Good deal.

As for Matthew 19:17 it is another passage that speaks of Jesus deity. None are good but God alone was Jesus reply so the ignorant morons use this passage to seek and deny that Jesus was God BUT what they overlook is that Jesus did EVERYTHING "GOOD" for there was no sin in Him and who alone is free of sin?? Well only God is for He alone is GOOD and Perfect. hence what Jesus was stating was more like "Do you understand that God alone is altogether good yet you have called Me good. Do you realize what you are saying?"

To be honest, I don't even know what YOU are saying with all that....I am totally lost so just forget it....I am not trying to convince you or anything like that - just pointing out some inconsistencies...but they are not that important if it going to reduce us to bickering. NOT good - not worth it - not helpful.

You can continue your esoteric (look that word up, it's also made-up) mumbo jumbo all you like but because you have built your theology on a lie everything coming from that shall also be a lie.

Well, if you are going to go THERE (with the lie accusation) then please understand why I probably won't be discussing anything with you for a good while - I am provoking you to say things you should not say and so be it. Better to leave it alone than to make things worse. I truly am sorry, too, UnrealZA, I did not mean to cause you to say such things.

God bless and keep you.

John 14:17
[14:12] Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do
also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I
go unto my Father. [14:13] And whatsoever ye shall ask in
my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in
the Son. [14:14] If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will
do [it.
][14:15] If ye love me, keep my commandments. [14:16]
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another
Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [14:17]




John 8:37
[8:37] I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to
kill me, because my word hath no place in you. [8:38] I
speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that
which ye have seen with your father. [8:39] They answered
and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto
them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the
works of Abraham. [8:40] But now ye seek to kill me, a
man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God:
this did not Abraham. [8:41] Ye do the deeds of your
father. Then said they to him, We be not born of
fornication; we have one Father, [even] God. [8:42] Jesus
said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me:
for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of
myself, but he sent me. [8:43] Why do ye not understand
my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. [8:44]
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of [your] father
ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and
abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.
When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a
liar, and the father of it. [8:45] And because I tell [you] the
truth, ye believe me not. [8:46] Which of you convinceth
me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
[8:47] He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore
hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.

As far as the 'realm of theology' - who needs it? Why study God when you can know Him from the inside out? Theo Logic makes more sense to me..God IS logic....but he doesn't make up new words that aren't in the bible to explain things that don't otherwise make consistent sense with what He's already given.

If you read the Bible you are studying THEOLOGY...Theo being God and Logos being Word. See what I mean about ignorant? Ignorance is a condition which can be changed and I hope you seek to change it, I highly doubt this though as you feel you have no need for correction. When I state that one is ignorant I am not insulting their intelligence but rather pointing out that they are uninformed. I am ignorant of many things and about many things. I have been debating thelogy, religions and philosophy with atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, JW's, LDS, wiccans and a host of others for years and years now and I was ignorant at one time of each of their core beliefs and in debate they trampled all over me. It is a condition though which can be changed.

When I see statements like yours...

Why study God when you can know Him from the inside out?

It makes me chuckle because you obviously didn't give it much thought. How can you KNOW God from the inside out without there being any STUDY of Him???

So God doesn't make up new words? Explain please the etymology of the english language? That's a word that we made up to describe or define the history of language. What's my point? Well ALL words are made up!!! At some point in time the words..."In the beginning......." DID NOT EXSIST so they were made up.

You though seem to mean that if the word, say for instance describing God, is not in Scripture then why do we need to make one up? Well I challenge you to find in Scripture the word Jehovah? Do you use that word? The word Jehovah is no where in Scripture but it is made up of two other words found in Scripture.

You fail to grasp that the Bible, if you read it in english, is a translation and many of the words we have in our Bibles today are not in the autographs so what do we do? Read it only in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic? Even then we only have copies but not the real autographs.

Why is it necessary to use and apply words to the things learned of, in the bible, that do not come from the bible? God's word is perfect - AS IS...if He has not provided a word or description between Genesis 1:1 and Revelation 22:21 for a concept supposedly contained therein...then maybe it is actually NOT found in the bible!

Hey, Queenannie.....have you ever asked why you call it a "Bible" when that word is no where in the Bible? Men have given words to define things that are IN the Scriptures....God took on flesh so men defined it by the use of the word "Incarnation" and Hypostatic Union. These words do not take away from Gods word but rather help to define something IN Scripture. I challenge you to look up the word Incarnate and Hypostatic (Hypostasis) and see their Etymology. What does the word "hypo" mean?..Think about a HYPO-dermic needle...it goes in and/or under your skin huh? What of the word derm?

How so? Where did I use a made up word? I re-read my post twice - I must be missing it?

The words you are using right now and the ones you are reading right now at one time did not exsist. So they came from somewhere, correct? Did we find a scroll with english words on it or did we make the language up based on other languages? Did the word "computer" exsist 3000 years ago? How about 600 years ago? So again, you are the one being contradictory by knocking some theological words as being "made-up" when in fact the very words you make that claim with at one time were made up.

[edit on 22-11-2006 by UnrealZA]

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy

EVERYONE has his laws written on their hearts and minds... it is only those who SATAN/IGNORANCE has control over that are condemned....

Yes, unfortunately. The serpent = kundalini. It resides in each of us and once recognition of the life force is awakened = its like opening pandora's box and just what does that box hold? The destiny of growth of the soul from a child into an adult.

Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins to help us learn/understand our soul journey. Jesus Christ had to die on the cross to counteract Satan's deception.
We condemn ourselves. Forgive them Father, they know not what they do

It is only after growth do we learn that original sin did not exist. There was no punishment nor condemnation... we condemn our own soul. This deception was manifested by GOD to assist the soul's learning.

Has anyone ever wondered why GOD lets Satan out again after 1000 years?

Thanks for answering my questions Queenannie.

So you don't read anything else except the Bible? I'm presently doing a Theology degree and I've found that reading other people's insights on the Bible can lead me to a greater understanding of God. Particularly when studying the social and historical setting when certain books, such as Ezra and Nehemiah, were written.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seemed to pick up from your posts that you don't belong to any body of believers. Are you sure that's wise? Ok, I know a lot of churches have got stuff wrong, but surely you can find one that suits you? After all, 'it's not right for man (or woman) to be alone.' Not just in the marriage sense, but in general. Christ himself had his disciples, and the Holy Spirit didn't appear until 'they were all together in one accord' on the day of Pentecost.

Just concerned for you, that's all.

[edit on 23/11/06 by jimboman]

jimboman,

I, believe it or not, have the same concern for people like queenannie. Sure it seems I am coming across in a harsh manner but that's against her ideaology and theology not her personally. I'm sure we could sit down and have a great chat and become good friends.

She should belong to a fellowship of Believers but that's just it, she is not a Believer. She may claim that she loves God and Jesus and this no one can refute but the question becomes, "Which Jesus?" Obviously it's not the Jesus we find in Scripture for she takes only from Scripture what fits her preconceived notions or ideas of who and what Jesus is and this is why she can't belong to the body of Christ. She is a square peg trying to fit in a round hole and she herself may admit that she never "feels" welcome or "at peace" in a church setting. Afterall in her eyes there is no need for a church building, theological words nor should we worship a mere man, this man being Jesus.

Thids is a simple case of man making God in his image.

"I don't think god is a god of justice AND mercy, just mercy. I don't think god is a god of wrath and love, just love. So obviously then the Bible must be in error when it states these things so I'll ignore that and focus only on the love parts."

People like this, these "lone rangers" can never be corrected nor rebuked for many of them, like queenannie, claim to get direct spiritual revelation from God. The Scriptures only contain some things correct the rest is made up by men. These types also feel that they have moved beyond the average person in their spiritual journey and have become free from all things unrighteous. Some claim to sin no more, have no unpure thoughts and all of their actions are unselfish. Many go as far as to feel like martyrs.

Now again I am sure queenannie is a sweet and loving person and it is my prayer also that she come to know Christ as her Lord and God. I pray for her mother and I wish no ill upon them. My rebuke and correction come to her message that others read and see.

Happy Thanksgiving to all

Thanks for your input UnrealZA. Guess this is our mission field, the internet I mean.

Some can stand on street corners preaching. Me, I'd rather try and point out what the wrong ideas about God and Jesus that people come up with and why they're wrong. The ideas I mean.

I pray for Queenannie too. Yes, 'God is love', she's correct there, but this isn't a loving world. It's a fallen world and s*** happens, even to good people.

Keep the faith!

Originally posted by NJE777

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy

EVERYONE has his laws written on their hearts and minds... it is only those who SATAN/IGNORANCE has control over that are condemned....

Yes, unfortunately. The serpent = kundalini. It resides in each of us and once recognition of the life force is awakened = its like opening pandora's box and just what does that box hold? The destiny of growth of the soul from a child into an adult.

Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins to help us learn/understand our soul journey. Jesus Christ had to die on the cross to counteract Satan's deception.
We condemn ourselves. Forgive them Father, they know not what they do

It is only after growth do we learn that original sin did not exist. There was no punishment nor condemnation... we condemn our own soul. This deception was manifested by GOD to assist the soul's learning.

Has anyone ever wondered why GOD lets Satan out again after 1000 years?

Yes I understand this ....

It will take us 1000 years to correct our thinking patterns.. to... categorize positive entangible to tangible phenomenon, and negative entangible to tangible phenomenon...
Once we finally get it right... we will begin to IGNORE the negative entangible to tangible phenomenon.....


[its taken us what we call FOREVER to finally learn what we stole from the tree of life.. (the knowledge of good and evil) .. well we've come to the end of that class, and its time to caption/list all the principles we've learned.]
So we're going to spend 1000 years sorting out the good from the bad, and after that 1000 years we will than ignore the bad..

[edit on 11/23/2006 by PuRe EnErGy]

Originally posted by jimboman
Thanks for answering my questions Queenannie.

So you don't read anything else except the Bible?

Actually, no, I didn't mean it that way.

Sorry. I do not turn to human commentaries on the bible in order to understand the bible. I rely on the Spirit within me to discern and guide me. BUT the Spirit within can only use what the hands and eyes without seek to send internal, by reading and studying...I read constantly - always have. So I also have 20 something years of being an 'informational black hole' and devouring anything with words on it without delay...and I have been blessed with an excellent memory...so I've got a whole lot of data, already, to draw from.

Also - I truly believe that it is essential to understanding the OT (and the NT) in regards to many things - all basically related to the culture and era in which these were written...the same applies to all ancient texts, sacred and otherwise!
And, so even though for the first year or two, my only outside reading was lexicons and other references (excluding commentary), these days I am devouring all within reach, as it is in my nature to do so...I can't help it!

So all things increase understanding...and the amazing thing is (which so many people never have the chance to realize because of time or others constraints - including the self-imposed boundaries of mental exploration) that there is no conflict in our knowledge (mankind's) or in our religions...there is only cultural variety which is a very good 'costume.' And all things are 'true' and all things wear a 'deceptive' veil.....somethings have only a wee bit of truth underneath 100's of veils, and somethings are mostly truth with only 3 veils covering, etc...

I'm presently doing a Theology degree and I've found that reading other people's insights on the Bible can lead me to a greater understanding of God.

I do, too, truly - even if I don't agree or can't understand their perspective, I still can ALWAYS learn -ALWAYS!

The phrasing of your initial question led me to understand you were suggesting I seek to another person's understanding of God and measure my own against it, to compare or validate. I apologize if I misunderstood. And if that had been so (which it does seem I have mistaken) then surely you would understand why I answered in suc a fashion, perhaps?

Semantics rears its trickster head once again!

Particularly when studying the social and historical setting when certain books, such as Ezra and Nehemiah, were written.

No doubt! That makes quite the difference, doesn't it? I agree.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seemed to pick up from your posts that you don't belong to any body of believers.

Sure I do. It is called 'Christ!'

Are you sure that's wise?

The only wisdom I have is trusting God. After that, I am hopelessly foolish. Luckily, with complete trust, the foolish part of me never gets a chance to interfere - most of the time - my fool CAN BE persistent...

Ok, I know a lot of churches have got stuff wrong, but surely you can find one that suits you?

Not yet...the church is not gathered, yet. Physically, that is... We should all be able to understand that.

However, the congregation/assembly (church) IS beginning to manifest, through spirit, on the internet! And soon, very soon, it will be manifest in materiality! But truly, all that is needed for the power of Christ to come through His assembly is the spiritual manifestation! I can see the effects of it, even here at ATS! And it's only been a short time...it will increase exponentially - I nearly certain it will!

After all, 'it's not right for man (or woman) to be alone.' Not just in the marriage sense, but in general. Christ himself had his disciples, and the Holy Spirit didn't appear until 'they were all together in one accord' on the day of Pentecost.

Right. But THEN they did go out on their own, didn't they? They had the spiritual understanding after that - no one to watch their backs (or two or three, ) but they obviously were destined as martyrs...
And I do have companionship - spiritual and physical - guidance and protection. The former with the former and the latter to the latter! And some of the latter are joining in the former!

Just concerned for you, that's all.

Yes, I know that. And I do thank you for that, TRULY....I know your intentions come from love....and in the end, charity is the 'greatest of these.'

God bless and keep you, my friend!

Originally posted by UnrealZA
jimboman,

I, believe it or not, have the same concern for people like queenannie. Sure it seems I am coming across in a harsh manner but that's against her ideaology and theology not her personally. I'm sure we could sit down and have a great chat and become good friends.

Well... well how very righteous of you both! Coming across in a harsh manner... too right. Borderline offensive, insulting and rude The sexist taunt too caught my attention. So Queenannie is playing it up for the boys!???? I think everyone here can see your agenda even though YOU cant.
Well, I love Queenannie, she is absolutely beautiful. Always loving, compassionate and you can sense her smile and spirit in the energy of her posts. I can pick up on your energy too, pity I dont sense the same of you.

She should belong to a fellowship of Believers but that's just it, she is not a Believer.

should? Just who are you?
she is not a believer? Are you GOD???? What right do you have to attack her and JUDGE that she is not a believer? I suggest you take a long hard look in the mirror.

she takes only from Scripture what fits her preconceived notions or ideas of who and what Jesus is and this is why she can't belong to the body of Christ. She is a square peg trying to fit in a round hole and she herself may admit that she never "feels" welcome or "at peace" in a church setting.

So here again, we see another attack on Queenannie. Her crime? That she doesnt go to Church? You assume/desire that she 'may' admit.... :shk:
Shame on you! Oh like you KNOW her? Do you even know yourself?

claim to get direct spiritual revelation from God

Are you even in touch with the Holy Spirit? Do you know how GOD works?
Seems to me as you haven't had a direct spiritual revelation from GOD, you reject those that have.

Now again I am sure queenannie is a sweet and loving person and it is my prayer also that she come to know Christ as her Lord and God. I pray for her mother and I wish no ill upon them. My rebuke and correction come to her message that others read and see.

Shame on you. Really!

Originally posted by NJE777
Yes, unfortunately. The serpent = kundalini.

Yes!!

The rainbow serpent...

It resides in each of us and once recognition of the life force is awakened = its like opening pandora's box and just what does that box hold? The destiny of growth of the soul from a child into an adult.

And, I think - from personal experience, that it is truly love and acceptance of all things, both 'black' and 'white' within our own hearts/minds/souls that does the work of clearing all the obstacles...opening the gates...

Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins to help us learn/understand our soul journey.

And to know Death is not PERMANENT or bound in flesh...to not fear...

I also am beginning to strongly suspect he was basically done with his work - there wasn't much more he could do without the Holy Spirit (the fiery spirit of the seraph) coming to finish the work....Only a few seeds are needed in order to have an entire rain forest in 2,000 years! Maybe only one! Hopefully there were two. But I know there was at least one that lived on...the Magdalene...and then there was also Paul - who served a double purpose (of which most people are not yet hip to).

We condemn ourselves.

Indeed! And in order to reinforce that, within our own limited minds, we must condemn others - especially those in which we see a side of ourselves that we'd rather deny that accept!

This deception was manifested by GOD to assist the soul's learning.

As well as the ultimate manifestation of His true Glory and overwhelming POWER!

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
~1 Corinthians 15:42-44

And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.

Has anyone ever wondered why GOD lets Satan out again after 1000 years?

Well....not even Satan DESERVES to be trapped in captivity (the fleshly prison of materiality) ALL the time! After all, 'he' does what God says! Satan didn't rebel in the sense that men suppose - and 'Lucifer' fell so men can rise!! A sacrifice that was, as well!

But what is YOUR take on that? Since you asked it of us?

God bless and keep you, my love!

Originally posted by UnrealZA
Sure it seems I am coming across in a harsh manner but that's against her ideaology and theology not her personally.

No. Just unbelievably arrogant. But that's okay - we all have the same propensity. God humbles us when it is His time to do so.

She should belong to a fellowship of Believers but that's just it, she is not a Believer.

You judge unrighteously and according to the flesh! I judge no one!

Also - you have just been given a demonstration of the love and fellowship which is inherent in THE body of Christ. I don't believe in men's theology...I trust in God's almighty power to bring about ALL that He has promised. Including a 'peaceful and expected end.' (Jeremiah 28)

She may claim that she loves God and Jesus and this no one can refute but the question becomes, "Which Jesus?"

Obviously it's not the Jesus we find in Scripture for she takes only from Scripture what fits her preconceived notions or ideas of who and what Jesus is and this is why she can't belong to the body of Christ.

You are right - I don't know that same Jesus...even as a child I remembered Him from times before according to His true nature - I KNEW him before I knew him as Christ....

She is a square peg trying to fit in a round hole and she herself may admit that she never "feels" welcome or "at peace" in a church setting.

No, just bored....uninspired....and then sad....
I get to be in 'church' 24/7! And so I am! I never leave! There is nothing outside of it to lure me!

Afterall in her eyes there is no need for a church building, theological words nor should we worship a mere man, this man being Jesus.

Howbeit the most High dwells not in temples made with hands; as said the prophet, Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will you build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Hath not my hand made all these things?
You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do you.
~Acts 7:48-51

Exalt the LORD our God, and worship at his footstool; for he is holy.
~Psalms 99:5

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
~John 4:24

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones, as you see I have.
~Luke 24:39

?!?

This is a simple case of man making God in his image.

No - it is a case of allowing myself to be re-made NEW in Christ's image!

"I don't think god is a god of justice AND mercy, just mercy. I don't think god is a god of wrath and love, just love. "

NO - I know God loves justice (judgment) - always have! Now I realize that His ways are not our ways - or thoughts - and also, His idea of justice is a far cry from our own..and much better, I must say!

People like this, these "lone rangers" can never be corrected nor rebuked for many of them, like queenannie, claim to get direct spiritual revelation from God.

Would you rather I lied and not admit to the source of my guidance? Or is it that you think I certainly cannot have that which you don't seem to have submitted fully to, yourself? If you deny me the possibility, you also deny it to yourself.

have become free from all things unrighteous.

Yes! Free! Isn't that the plan?

Some claim to sin no more, have no unpure thoughts and all of their actions are unselfish.

I am not a slave to sin. I do not serve sin. I do not worry about sin - mine OR yours...and if I do not worry about these things, my thoughts DO become pure....
Pure means 100% one thing ONLY.
And while I do act in a selfish manner from time to time - it is NOTHING compared to my old ways - which were 100% selfish... God has worked a miracle in me and my intention is to serve as living witness to that fact - His power to make even the most dishonorable vessel new and suitable for serving HIM!

Many go as far as to feel like martyrs.

Did they tell you that? How do you know?

Now again I am sure queenannie is a sweet and loving person and it is my prayer also that she come to know Christ as her Lord and God.

Well, I am NOT sweet - but I AM loving! Thank you! And thank you for your prayers - I do know Christ, though, I know Him quite well.

I pray for her mother and I wish no ill upon them.

Thank you, UnrealZA. That is truly kind of you and I do not reject or refuse your kindness! God bless you!

My rebuke and correction come to her message that others read and see.

That is all fine and good. For only by being witnesses can any soul judge rightly for itself.

Originally posted by NJE777

Well... well how very righteous of you both! Coming across in a harsh manner... too right. Borderline offensive, insulting and rude The sexist taunt too caught my attention. So Queenannie is playing it up for the boys!???? I think everyone here can see your agenda even though YOU cant.
Well, I love Queenannie, she is absolutely beautiful. Always loving, compassionate and you can sense her smile and spirit in the energy of her posts. I can pick up on your energy too, pity I dont sense the same of you.

should? Just who are you?
she is not a believer? Are you GOD???? What right do you have to attack her and JUDGE that she is not a believer? I suggest you take a long hard look in the mirror.

So here again, we see another attack on Queenannie. Her crime? That she doesnt go to Church? You assume/desire that she 'may' admit.... :shk:
Shame on you! Oh like you KNOW her? Do you even know yourself?

Are you even in touch with the Holy Spirit? Do you know how GOD works?
Seems to me as you haven't had a direct spiritual revelation from GOD, you reject those that have.

Now again I am sure queenannie is a sweet and loving person and it is my prayer also that she come to know Christ as her Lord and God. I pray for her mother and I wish no ill upon them. My rebuke and correction come to her message that others read and see.

Shame on you. Really!

First, where do I begin? People really need to take the emotions and leave them out of their posts or else you will embarass yourself.

Your post is in the sense of a rebuke directed towards me and my tone. Yet in doing so how are you free from also being judgmental? It is contradictory to state...."Hey, stop judging people, that's wrong and it shouldn't be done! Remember what Jesus said, 'Don't judge one another!!' " Because in making that statement you have judged me as "wrong" even while holding that judging another is wrong. Do you grasp that?

Secondly, am I to be in shame because I pray for queeannie or for her mother to be well?

Third, Scripture defines the Believer, not me. No one who denies Christ as Lord and God is saved, plain and simple. Queenannie denies this. She calims there is truth in ALL religions, even those that deny God. Have you even read Scripture?? If not then don't try and correct me on it. If you, or anyone else can by way of correct exegesis and reasoning show me where I am in error concerning a doctrine or teaching I will surely and most humble concede to it. It has happened many times in the past and will continue to happen as I grow in the grace and knowledge of Christ. So if you wish to correct me, rebuke me and edify me then do so as outlined in Scripture.

If you knew anything about Scripture and judgment you would know, grasp and understand that Jesus NEVER said to not judge people but rather we are not to judge in a HYPOCRITICAL manner. As I already noted that's like you saying, "Who are you to judge another, that's wrong of you!" -OR- "You kids stop smoking, it's wrong....now where are my cigs?" Those are both hypocritical statements.

In fact Scripture states we are to JUDGE, to TEST the spirits to see if they be of God. Yet how can one do this if there is no set standard by which we are to judge another? If you deny Scripture then you have nothing to use as a guide for judgment, rebuke and edification. Scripture sets the guide. In Scripture we are told how to test those that claim to be a prophet. If their prophecy does not come to pass they are false. Is that not judgment upon that person? Jesus judged the Pharisees to be wrong and in error. He said they would "die in their sin". So again my judgment is against queenannies doctrines and teachings.

Scripture is our "direct revelation" from God. There are no more prophets in the sense of those who get messages from God then they tell others. That's the purpose of Scripture. God has spoken and we now have it in written form. So you need to answer your own question, "Do you know how God works?".

Do I need to change? I need to change many things and I have many faults and I stumble alot as I am not perfect. Yet the one I place my faith in is Perfect and loves me regardless of my faults. So yea, looking in the mirror can be ugly at times.

Now if you wish, show me my error in light of Scripture by sound reasoning and proper exegesis. Don't just have an emotional outburst because what I state you do not care for.

[edit on 23-11-2006 by UnrealZA]

Originally posted by queenannie38
Well....not even Satan DESERVES to be trapped in captivity (the fleshly prison of materiality) ALL the time! After all, 'he' does what God says! Satan didn't rebel in the sense that men suppose - and 'Lucifer' fell so men can rise!! A sacrifice that was, as well!

But what is YOUR take on that? Since you asked it of us?

I am hesitant with this one. We are told in scriptures of a deception... and this is Satan. Is this cycle, orchestrated by GOD to help us? How easily are we deceived?

Originally posted by UnrealZA
Don't just have an emotional outburst because what I state you do not care for.

Can you understand what you are saying here?
Maybe you need to think about your emotional outburst?

You attack Queenannie, I defend and then you defend by attacking me. You fail to acknowledge just what you did. You then side step your original stance and now mask it with love and concern. Well, good to see you eventually reached the high road.

Lets not for entertainment purposes get into the cycle of the ego. You were wrong, you were insulting, end of story. And I will not expend my energy justifying my response to you.

queenannie,

When I use the word "church" I am not speaking of it to define a man made religous system but rather the "body of Believers". Those whom are "called out" from the world and are now the Bride of Christ.

There is no word "church" in Scripture but rather we have the word "eklessia" which means "called out". They meet in fields, homes, barns....wherever they could. Later certain places were designated as places for the body of Christ to gather. Israel itself was said to be a "body" or one (echad) in God just as the body of Believers today are one (even though many) in Christ and we are to not forsake the gathering of Believers.

So for you to be a lone ranger is not in accordance with Scripture. This is where wild esoteric teachings get born. I cannot deny your personal experience you claim to have with God BUT I can say this with 100% confidence, your messages, your visions or chats with God will never contradict Scripture. That's one main purpose of Scripture, so that we may know who is and who is not false as they claim to have "revelation".

By your account I can claim that God has revealed to me that we are incubators for an alien race. They shall come back on December 25th 2006 to gather up their offspring so that they can become angels who will, back in heaven, mate with other angels so as to populate another earth. All those with names starting with the letter "R", "F", "T" and "D" though are not able to return as those are cursed letters in heaven. They shall be jetisoned into space.

Am I wrong or right? If you say I am wrong then on what do you base that I am in error? If you state I am right what happens then when Dec. 25th comes and goes and no mothership comes?

If ALL religions and beliefs are right and have truth then who are we to say that others are wrong to offer up children to Molech, the fire god? Don't they have the right to do that, how can it be wrong? It is wrong for others to go in and save those babies?

Originally posted by NJE777

Originally posted by UnrealZA
Don't just have an emotional outburst because what I state you do not care for.

Can you understand what you are saying here?
Maybe you need to think about your emotional outburst?

You attack Queenannie, I defend and then you defend by attacking me. You fail to acknowledge just what you did. You then side step your original stance and now mask it with love and concern. Well, good to see you eventually reached the high road.

Lets not for entertainment purposes get into the cycle of the ego. You were wrong, you were insulting, end of story. And I will not expend my energy justifying my response to you.

Perhaps you need to re-read things. I am not apologizing in any sense for anything I stated. I attacked her teachings and doctrine. I called them fluff, empty words. It would be different if I called her a "stupid fat *itch". That would be ad hominem in a personal sense but my ad hominem is against her doctrine.

My reply to you is valid.

ooohhh poor misunderstood annie... leave her be... she is no different than the rest of us..

The point we are all getting at is accepting and understanding eachother.. (all of eachother) and we'll finally move past our flesh as a barrier.. even the idea of individuality... will be scrapped..

LOVE my friends... we are all even in this thread for that very reason ..

Because we love eachother... stop ignoring it...
Look, we even look to eachothers words to condemn the FATHER, but alas, the light hidden by the image of the FATHER will make itself known.

There are no idle words, just idle ideologies.

Originally posted by NJE777
I am hesitant with this one. We are told in scriptures of a deception... and this is Satan. Is this cycle, orchestrated by GOD to help us? How easily are we deceived?

Through the veil of flesh. Skin = separated by sin, paid with death.

It makes us think we are separate beings - organizable in particular groups - qualified and justified to judge ourselves and each other according to something that
IS NOT EVEN PERMANENT!

And in doing so, we forsake that
WHICH IS PERMANENT!

A riddle from the sphinx:
'Son of man: who is the one to which you can lie so easily and be believed, each and every time? Who is your worst adversary in UNTRUTH?'

Originally posted by NJE777
Lets not for entertainment purposes get into the cycle of the ego. You were wrong, you were insulting, end of story. And I will not expend my energy justifying my response to you.

All for the purpose of manifestation of the CHURCH and what it embodies - the love and brotherhood of CHRIST in the hearts and minds of men...

UNITED in one spirit.

I see three members (that I know of) on this thread right now.. I see all thread posters and future members with full benefits!

It is for these purpose that we say and do as we do...ALL of us....

LOVE is the end delight of El Elyon...the most High God...not Jesus Christ - Christ is the son of God...many members...one BODY too big for any building and certainly too small for arguments and strife!

PEACE be with you ALL and grace multiplied!