A Theological View of Sin

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
ooohhh poor misunderstood annie... leave her be... she is no different than the rest of us..

THAT is totally TRUTH....no different...at all...

The point we are all getting at is accepting and understanding eachother.. (all of eachother) and we'll finally move past our flesh as a barrier.. even the idea of individuality... will be scrapped..

Do you mean separately in purpose and direction (as opposed to 'personality')?

Maybe you might be misunderstood.....our many personalities make us a dicrete members of the ONE body (MIND), correct?

LOVE my friends... we are all even in this thread for that very reason ..

Exactly. And it's not always expressed or understood perfectly. But if it is done ALWAYS with love and truth to the best of our ability, then it will be FINE.

Because we love eachother... stop ignoring it...
Look, we even look to eachothers words to condemn the FATHER, but alas, the light hidden by the image of the FATHER will make itself known.

I like that word: eachother!
Perfect expression of what I perceive...

There are no idle words, just idle ideologies.

Idle minds are the devil's plaything...LOL

wow, I never thought that everyone would have gone about all this, this much, but hey there is some really good topics brought up in the thread here, But I had one serious question that is really rocking my head off.

If God is perfect, and he created angels that were perfect, than why did, or how did Lucifer be able to sin, and tempt all other angels to sin?

Was it a choice, did angels have the choice sin, but never did? or did like Lucifer invent sin, by just the thought of questioning Gods sovereignty?

Its confusing, but what do you all think?

Originally posted by ragster
wow, I never thought that everyone would have gone about all this, this much, but hey there is some really good topics brought up in the thread here, But I had one serious question that is really rocking my head off.

If God is perfect, and he created angels that were perfect, than why did, or how did Lucifer be able to sin, and tempt all other angels to sin?

Was it a choice, did angels have the choice sin, but never did? or did like Lucifer invent sin, by just the thought of questioning Gods sovereignty?

Its confusing, but what do you all think?

Good question. The answer is in searching the Scriptures for an area where God grants us and angels "free will". Can you find it?

If so then we can state with certainty that God allows each individual, human or angelic, to choose their own destiny. Humans can then choose to be saved. God has no say so in the matter.

If, on the other hand, you can't find where God grants humans and angels "free will" then it can be stated that God is the Overseer of all things, perhaps including our "will". For no where in Scripture are we told that we have a choice in our salvation. God has chosen those whom He shall save as well as those whom are not. He is the Potter and we are the clay. Some are predestined for salvation, some for damnation.

It has been said within theological circles that God allowed sin but man actuated it. To use an analogy (as with all analogy, press it too far and it crumbles), the atom has always been there but man chose to harness it to create a nuclear bomb/power. The wrong thought though is to state that God made or created sin. God has allowed it....for a time. To go further, from evil comes a greater good.

Originally posted by ragster
If God is perfect, and he created angels that were perfect, than why did, or how did Lucifer be able to sin, and tempt all other angels to sin?

God is perfected....the angels are servants....all human beings make mistakes - from limited vision and incomplete understandings....

Lucifer (not her name - it is Heliel) did not 'sin' - she fell, descended into flesh - because she loved the ones of the other angels who had come down for fun and lost their way...in danger of losing all....and she loved them so much that something terrible and incredibly damaging to her psyche took place....and then she was lost for 2000 years....and she did have anger and rage for what took place, but she did not sin nor did she hate....she was found and woken up and healed and then the chance to return home was given....but she didn't go.

For Lucifer/Heliel is the angel of fire which is love that gives life...in the days long before these things took place, she was often called the 'goddess of love' just as the angels were called 'gods'....but they took on human form and did a lot of things....

The condemnation for rebellion is not deserved. She stayed because she has people who are depending upon her and whom she loves dearly....and really she loves EVERYONE and wants the chance to heal them from the 7000 years of her brother's and her bungled good-intentions!

Was it a choice, did angels have the choice sin, but never did? or did like Lucifer invent sin, by just the thought of questioning Gods sovereignty?

Angels are just spirits - human souls....when they are in bodies and know this they are living souls...in AND out of the body they are ministering spirits to those who do not realize or have not yet been vivified according to the realization of the soul that is does not have to die without a body....

ALL is free....but there was a 'vow' taken amongst the leaders who came down for fun - that vow remained even when details were forgotten....that is the reason for 'predestination.' The will of those who made a vow and who knew that all vows are kept to the fullest extent possible - even death. It makes it appear there is no free will...but the free will gave the vow....then the rest follows that single direction of the will!

Originally posted by ragster
wow, I never thought that everyone would have gone about all this, this much, but hey there is some really good topics brought up in the thread here, But I had one serious question that is really rocking my head off.

If God is perfect, and he created angels that were perfect, than why did, or how did Lucifer be able to sin, and tempt all other angels to sin?

Was it a choice, did angels have the choice sin, but never did? or did like Lucifer invent sin, by just the thought of questioning Gods sovereignty?

Its confusing, but what do you all think?

GOD is HUMANITY (THOUGHTS ONLY) collapsed onto the material plane......
so, thus GOD(Who is) is Perfect, and humanity created angels who were perfect in the IMAGE of Perfection...... (therefore it was the best parts of the thought that were made manifest NOT that imperfect parts)..
Which means that the equation that ALL our thoughts run through makes ONLY perfect results... (the MOST perfect it CAN be with the THOUGHTs its given, by US)
Thus the world upgrades as WE (Thought) upgrades.
.......

the invention of SIN arises from single people (I don't mean single as in dating) .. I mean seperate individuals ..
Humanity KNOWS what it needs to advance and to prosper and LIVE...
but as a single individual asked about this, we will say we don't know where to start.
Because we don't know who we are... We think we are flesh, which is totally WRONG, this body of FLESH thinks for itself ... Sure it takes our input from time to time, but OUR input is only a REACTION to its demands and 'needs' ..

My flesh is addicted, My flesh is currupt..

in the cold, it craves warmth
in the warmth, it craves cold
in thirst, it craves water
in hunger, it craves food
when alone, it craves company
when sober, it craves a high
it craves alcohol, it craves cigarettes, it craves sex, it craves cleanliness, it craves attention more than any other person I know. It runs my life.. It IS my life....
BUT
if I am not FLESH or body but it is my life? .. than what am I? that has been given this life? .. given this flesh.. I AM THOUGHT!
THOUGHT is master, not flesh..

I AM A WAR LEADER.

The WAR without TEARS, no tears for Fallen Soldiers and Families.

My WAR is WAGED against SIN, against FLESH, against its domination over this planet.
My friends.. NAMASTE
I see you, you cannot hide.... I know you intricately.. you are THOUGHT and you cannot hide... You had better be prepared to change, or to fall with your flesh.
For without pure thought, the flesh WILL die. Just give it time. My friends.. IF you do not fast from the world you shall never see the kingdom, your body IS of the world.
But YOU are from HEAVEN.. you are THOUGHT, so BE GREAT! increase the vibration of your thought.

The body created the SIN when it no longer recognized what was in the body.

YOU have full command over your cells and brain functions. It is a ladder to climb, gaining control over the material plane will take practice.. and control. CONTROL YOURSELF.. not your flesh.. YOU ARE THOUGHT.. as THOUGHT you have control over the FLESH.

You are not making sense, my brother. What is up? You seem as if you aren't YOU.

WHO are YOU if not YOU?

Originally posted by queenannie38
You are not making sense, my brother. What is up? You seem as if you aren't YOU.

WHO are YOU if not YOU?

Perhaps you were listening to someone else.. lol perhaps .. lol
People tend to listen to the person inside that tells them what the outside people are like.
does that make sense?
to stay on topic..

If the body did not exist, that is... if SIN did not exist... WOULD energy still exist?... WOULD thought still exist? ... oh yes my dear it would. scary to think of, of course!
but all it takes is what? conciousness of conciousness to do what? .. to NOT DO! to do something better, to do something greater.
So what is the most sinful creature? the animal that kills out hunger? or the animal that chooses to kill for sport? or .. perhaps war... its so raw, what a rush! eh soldiers?, nothing like hunting the most intelligent prey ever!

But whats really DRIVING that machine? .. (the body).. ONE THOUGHT, ONE WORD, ONE FORCE......
ONE THOUGHT, in command over all other 'lesser' thinkers within its own body, cells, etc etc.. What a burden that is to know that.. and see it for what it is..

How many inncoent cells have you killed doing drugs?, smacking your head, deciding to do things KNOWING it KILLs cells.. ???
How much have you tortured your own body? THINKING!
How badly have you treated other peoples bodies? by effecting their thinking?!

Perhaps you were listening to someone else in my words.... and now hear my personal voice... or perhaps the echo changed on the way to you.. but none-the-less .. as I have been saying all along.. you are THOUGHT. in a thinking body.

How many inncoent cells have you killed doing drugs?, smacking your head, deciding to do things KNOWING it KILLs cells.. ???

Now suppose queenannie has smoked pot since she was young. Would you say that is wrong of her? If she has killed off alot of brain cells could that be reason for her dilusionary mindset??

Makes one wonder, eh?

[edit on 26-11-2006 by UnrealZA]

Originally posted by UnrealZA

How many inncoent cells have you killed doing drugs?, smacking your head, deciding to do things KNOWING it KILLs cells.. ???

Now suppose queenannie has smoked pot since she was young. Would you say that is wrong of her? If she has killed off alot of brain cells could that be reason for her dilusionary mindset??

Makes one wonder, eh?

[edit on 26-11-2006 by UnrealZA]

I wasn't just talking to her... I was talking to everyone.

I fully understand that PureEnergy. My question though was asking if you would say it is wrong for her to smoke pot? I ask this because she seems to claim to be some servant of God, a person in the "know"....Gods right hand person so to speak. I mnean she claims she is the Judge of all and walked with Jesus. Would God approve, in your opinion, of someone using mind altering drugs?

No need to be politically correct here. If it's wrong for one it's wrong for all, correct?

Originally posted by UnrealZA
I fully understand that PureEnergy. My question though was asking if you would say it is wrong for her to smoke pot? I ask this because she seems to claim to be some servant of God, a person in the "know"....Gods right hand person so to speak. I mnean she claims she is the Judge of all and walked with Jesus. Would God approve, in your opinion, of someone using mind altering drugs?

No need to be politically correct here. If it's wrong for one it's wrong for all, correct?

I think you've answered your own questions.. but you have to ask yourself.. does this person believe these facts as concrete facts or figuratively speaking? ..
symbolic ? ..
regardless I don't think GOD would have a problem with her lightin' up.. lol You have to ask yourself, does it happen all over the world right now? .. and what do people think of it? .. if we did a massive poll, of every citizen of this planet we call earth.. Do you think we'd come up with the consensus that its evil?

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy

Originally posted by UnrealZA
I fully understand that PureEnergy. My question though was asking if you would say it is wrong for her to smoke pot? I ask this because she seems to claim to be some servant of God, a person in the "know"....Gods right hand person so to speak. I mnean she claims she is the Judge of all and walked with Jesus. Would God approve, in your opinion, of someone using mind altering drugs?

No need to be politically correct here. If it's wrong for one it's wrong for all, correct?

I think you've answered your own questions.. but you have to ask yourself.. does this person believe these facts as concrete facts or figuratively speaking? ..
symbolic ? ..
regardless I don't think GOD would have a problem with her lightin' up.. lol

You have to ask yourself, does it happen all over the world right now? .. and what do people think of it? .. if we did a massive poll, of every citizen of this planet we call earth.. Do you think we'd come up with the consensus that its evil?

A consensus of people thinking it's OK does not make it OK. This is a logical fallacy in holding that if a certain number agree with it then we all should. Murder happens all over the world right now also. That doesn't make it right.

One may then state, "Yea but smoking pot doesn't murder anyone!" Well as long as we don't include drug deals gone bad where someone dies or while under the influence some innocent person is killed. You even stated that "brain cells" are being killed.

Does God have a problem with it? Yep. If we look at Scripture we have the word "sorcery" or "sorcerer" and in the NT that word in the Greek is "pharmakeia" where we get our English word "pharmacy". A sorcerer was one who would go into trances to have visions (also witchcraft) and they did this by the use of "drugs"....mind altering drugs. No one who practices sorcery will be allowed in heaven. Those claiming to be sent from God would not use them either.

So if one makes wild and irrational claims and then learn that they may be taking mind altering drugs what then do you think may be the source of those irrational remarks?

[edit on 26-11-2006 by UnrealZA]

Originally posted by UnrealZA

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy

Originally posted by UnrealZA
I fully understand that PureEnergy. My question though was asking if you would say it is wrong for her to smoke pot? I ask this because she seems to claim to be some servant of God, a person in the "know"....Gods right hand person so to speak. I mnean she claims she is the Judge of all and walked with Jesus. Would God approve, in your opinion, of someone using mind altering drugs?

No need to be politically correct here. If it's wrong for one it's wrong for all, correct?

I think you've answered your own questions.. but you have to ask yourself.. does this person believe these facts as concrete facts or figuratively speaking? ..
symbolic ? ..
regardless I don't think GOD would have a problem with her lightin' up.. lol

You have to ask yourself, does it happen all over the world right now? .. and what do people think of it? .. if we did a massive poll, of every citizen of this planet we call earth.. Do you think we'd come up with the consensus that its evil?

A consensus of people thinking it's OK does not make it OK. This is a logical fallacy in holding that if a certain number agree with it then we all should. Murder happens all over the world right now also. That doesn't make it right.

One may then state, "Yea but smoking pot doesn't murder anyone!" Well as long as we don't include drug deals gone bad where someone dies or while under the influence some innocent person is killed. You even stated that "brain cells" are being killed.

Does God have a problem with it? Yep. If we look at Scripture we have the word "sorcery" or "sorcerer" and in the NT that word in the Greek is "pharmakeia" where we get our English word "pharmacy". A sorcerer was one who would go into trances to have visions (also witchcraft) and they did this by the use of "drugs"....mind altering drugs. No one who practices sorcery will be allowed in heaven. Those claiming to be sent from God would not use them either.

So if one makes wild and irrational claims and then learn that they may be taking mind altering drugs what then do you think may be the source of those irrational remarks?

[edit on 26-11-2006 by UnrealZA]

lol you fell for my trap...

I knew you were going to say that..

But I wanted to make this point... but without you saying that, it would have had no meaning..

We eat food, that alters our mind... it makes us go from hungry to full...
it also does a lot more for people who are addicted to food... (gluttony) ..

do you see where I'm going... Humans are addicted to the outside world by nature, it is a constant doing, to crave outside 'influences' ..

You may argue, but we are soo addicted we even crave the sun... we know that these things are necessary.. sun-bathers are feeding addiction, people being in control or bossy are feeding off of the peptides that are released during that addiction....
so why not ask if GOD supports addiction... you're even addicted to your house, which is why it looked familiar and looks like YOUR HOUSE when you look at it, as opposed to looking at a house on some street in some city you've never seen..
You have created addictions your whole life.. people think you need money to LIVE even.. I was aware the equation looked like.. money=living life... I always looked at it as living life=making money=for the experiences/quality of life that I desire.
and thus we become addicted to it.. to OUR LIFE.. to the stability ..
we are addicted to everything outside of us.. and NOTHING inside of us..
but everything outside of us, is just releasing peptides WITHIN the brain, (hypothalamus) there are chemicals for satisfaction, pain, love, joy, disappointment, etc etc...
and we are addicted to them.. so if you are going to lump 'drugs' in there. look at it for what it is... just an intelligent name, because someone recognized addiction so they called them drugs.. but everything outside of you illicits a peptide to be released from the hypothalamus..
So, why was GOD so evil back in the day? in the old testament.. because GOD is HUMANITIES thoughts.. and it'll only be as 'GREAT' as the material that is present to make the equation of Humanities Thoughts=Material World.
So you should already know how much support POT has from GOD, because people laugh at it being a problem (most people) .. because they recognize there are way bigger evils that need tending too... the focus is all wrong.
If you try to quit smoking cigarettes, which is a mental addiction aside from a physical one.. than you find yourself doing something else in replace of it.. like what? .. eating?. .another addiction, gambling?. .another addiction, sex?. .another addiction, walking even?. .another addiction...

Sheesh......now you're ranting and making no sense.

You can't say it can you? After you stated that doing drugs and killing brain cells is wrong you are now back peddeling and spinning this "just in case" Queenannie is a pothead, why? If it's wrong it's wrong, no matter who does it.

Now it's...."Well we all have addiction, you're addicted to your house.....blah, blah, blah"

What that means I have no idea..."addicted to my house"?? Because I know where I live I'm addicted to my house?

Look, plain and simple....doing drugs is wrong. Any thing which alters your mind is wrong if abused. One glass of wine is fine. Downing a whole bottle each night is abuse and wrong. Eating to satisfy your hunger and enjoying the taste of food is a pleasure and good. Eating so that no one else has any food to eat and gorging yourself with it is wrong and very unhealthy. Call a rose a rose.

Originally posted by UnrealZA
Sheesh......now you're ranting and making no sense.

You can't say it can you? After you stated that doing drugs and killing brain cells is wrong you are now back peddeling and spinning this "just in case" Queenannie is a pothead, why? If it's wrong it's wrong, no matter who does it.

Now it's...."Well we all have addiction, you're addicted to your house.....blah, blah, blah"

What that means I have no idea..."addicted to my house"?? Because I know where I live I'm addicted to my house?

Look, plain and simple....doing drugs is wrong. Any thing which alters your mind is wrong if abused. One glass of wine is fine. Downing a whole bottle each night is abuse and wrong. Eating to satisfy your hunger and enjoying the taste of food is a pleasure and good. Eating so that no one else has any food to eat and gorging yourself with it is wrong and very unhealthy. Call a rose a rose.

Exactly you don't know what I mean..
haven't you ever wondered why your house looks familiar to you whereas other houses don't... can you give me a tangible reason other than the fact you have memories there.. ?

I wasn't saying anything just incase queen annie is a pot-head.. thats ludacris, you are correct saying that if its wrong, its wrong... But why are you looking at the dust in your brothers/sisters eye when you haven't dislodged the beam from your own eye? ..
You are horribly addicted to things that aren't healthy yourself.. thinking patterns are addictions.. some produce better results than others... but none-the-less it all leads to death..
Perhaps I was dwelling on the future, when I said that the material plane is the causative(sp?) reaction to humanities thoughts and that it rests on the material plane in the 'best' possible situation..

a better way to look at it is this..

A tree... has one trunk in the visible world.... but has many many little nutrient soaker-uppers (roots) in the 'invisible' world (when the tree is planted, its out of sight).... this is all very basic information, everyone knows (or should) what a tree looks like and how it works.. ..

The human being is like this tree..
in the invisible part of the human there lays a massive root system.. made up of neurons called our neuro-net, it started as a seed, but grew (the neuro-net)
and as a reaction to this neuro-net just like the tree, we have ONE trunk, in the visible world.. ONE BODY... and the branches, are actions/reactions to situations that were present around your roots..
in other words.. Your neuro-net takes the nutrients the body tells it, it needs for survival, (keeping in mind everyone has a human body, so the bodies do what they need to further the entire race)
So what is really manifest in the world is everything we need to work on, ..
there is no such thing as NEW sin... every sin has already been commited, you can't really be original there.. unless you want to combine a whole whack of them, ..
What is manifest is everything we need to recognize and know.

We STOLE the FRUIT of the TREE of the Knowledge of GOOD and EVIL...
...
The branches move around on a tree to find the best spot to absorb the light it needs .. to create photo-synthesis... what does that word mean to you?
PHOTO-SYNTHESIS? .. = Picture Making? ..

so .. the human trunk is no different.. its branches (actions/reactions) move around to find the most suitable place to absorb light...

SIN is the Human CheckList, ...
SIN? for Satan is Niiiiissssssss...
Once upon a time it was actually hard'er for people to sin... it took actual initiative..
Now you can walk to your corner store and sin to your hearts content.
Sin is everywhere... We grew it.. because we wanted to inspect it.. so we could know it.. if you just steal the fruit.. you will never know the tree.. (so jesus came and instructed us) ..
You cannot have knowledge of something without experiencing it. GOOD AND BAD.
So thats what we came here to do.. Learn sin.. its like the last class before you graduate.. lol and get your body.. (the resurrected one) ..
Once we recognize SIN for what it is.. (THOUGHTs that create horrible tangible results) .. than we can uproot it..
I obviously angered you in my previous post, I suppose I didn't say what you were expecting.. I apologize, but I was not defending any one person or one sin.. I was calling it how I see it.

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy

Exactly you don't know what I mean..
haven't you ever wondered why your house looks familiar to you whereas other houses don't... can you give me a tangible reason other than the fact you have memories there.. ?

I wasn't saying anything just incase queen annie is a pot-head.. thats ludacris, you are correct saying that if its wrong, its wrong... But why are you looking at the dust in your brothers/sisters eye when you haven't dislodged the beam from your own eye?

You cannot have knowledge of something without experiencing it. GOOD AND BAD.
So thats what we came here to do.. Learn sin..

First, My house is familiar to me because I have lived in it for the last 15 years. It's the house I pay to one day own. My name is on the mortgage. I always go to my house because if I went to another persons house and just walked in I would be beaten, arrested or shot dead. So I stick with my house. Sorry for this comment but you're making no sense with that statement.

Second, you ask me why am I looking at the dust in my brother/sister's eye when I have a log in myown?? Well if I remember correctly YOU were the one that first stated that doing drugs is wrong, correct?? So why not ask yourself that question..."Why do you tell others what's wrong when you have a log in your own?"

The reasoning around here is pathetic.

Third, I can tell another person that what they are doing is wrong as long as I am not doing that same thing. I would then be a HYPOCRITE. So if you warn others not to do drugs and tell them it's wrong to abuse their bodies like that you are NOT judging them in a hypocritical manner as long as you don't abuse drugs. This is exactly what Jesus spoke of in Matthew 7.

Lastly, I have no knowledge of being burned alive nor do I need to to KNOW that fire burns. I do not need to "experience" falling off a 10 story building to KNOW that upon impact I'll be a liquid mess. No one is here to "learn" to sin but rather we are all born in sin. We will all seek out sin for sin is a pleasure to the flesh and senses. We gravitate to it . We are not here to learn sin.

Originally posted by UnrealZA

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy

Exactly you don't know what I mean..
haven't you ever wondered why your house looks familiar to you whereas other houses don't... can you give me a tangible reason other than the fact you have memories there.. ?

I wasn't saying anything just incase queen annie is a pot-head.. thats ludacris, you are correct saying that if its wrong, its wrong... But why are you looking at the dust in your brothers/sisters eye when you haven't dislodged the beam from your own eye?

You cannot have knowledge of something without experiencing it. GOOD AND BAD.
So thats what we came here to do.. Learn sin..

First, My house is familiar to me because I have lived in it for the last 15 years. It's the house I pay to one day own. My name is on the mortgage. I always go to my house because if I went to another persons house and just walked in I would be beaten, arrested or shot dead. So I stick with my house. Sorry for this comment but you're making no sense with that statement.

Second, you ask me why am I looking at the dust in my brother/sister's eye when I have a log in myown?? Well if I remember correctly YOU were the one that first stated that doing drugs is wrong, correct?? So why not ask yourself that question..."Why do you tell others what's wrong when you have a log in your own?"

The reasoning around here is pathetic.

Third, I can tell another person that what they are doing is wrong as long as I am not doing that same thing. I would then be a HYPOCRITE. So if you warn others not to do drugs and tell them it's wrong to abuse their bodies like that you are NOT judging them in a hypocritical manner as long as you don't abuse drugs. This is exactly what Jesus spoke of in Matthew 7.

Lastly, I have no knowledge of being burned alive nor do I need to to KNOW that fire burns. I do not need to "experience" falling off a 10 story building to KNOW that upon impact I'll be a liquid mess. No one is here to "learn" to sin but rather we are all born in sin. We will all seek out sin for sin is a pleasure to the flesh and senses. We gravitate to it . We are not here to learn sin.

Nevermind with words..

Its funny to me, because I understand everything you write.. not that I had to make a point of it, but I DO... .
Where funny enters into the equation is where you don't understand what I'm saying so you attack it.. Try understanding it first..

I can't believe you still don't understand the house thing..
YOU ARE ADDICTED TO YOUR PAST, To memories.. so is everyone around you..
So why would we worry about WHAT we're addicted to, instead of ADDICTION.
All of those reasons why your house is your house is due to experience.. memory..

You don't need to experience falling off a building to know you'll die, someone did that for you.. they sacrificed their life, so you could know.. everyone in your past has done stupid things so you know they are stupid.. so YOU don't do them .. but we keep looping the circle because we are addicted to the past, addicted to doing stupid crap... and we love it so much we give ourselves reasons and excuses to do it.

[2:8] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: [2:9]
But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are
convinced of the law as transgressors. [2:10] For
whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one
[point,] he is guilty of all. [2:11] For he that said, Do not
commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit
no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor
of the law. [2:12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall
be judged by the law of liberty. [2:13]


[I] am in DAVID
and [I AM] iS David.
I cannot be ok, I can only be excellent, to the max, max power lol
(simpsons [max power] haha)
I have no wings, I have only flesh. My wings are my actions and reactions
that propel me unto the sun.
Once I reach that sun, my wings shall melt, and I will be left as I should
be, Master of the FLESH. the EYE. .. the [I]... without my wings to propel
me anywhere but where eye decide to go.

[edit on 11/26/2006 by PuRe EnErGy]

A house - a mortgage
a $775 a month habit

Kick the habit
Kick yourself out of your house?

Can't do it?
The thought of it hurts to bad to consider?

Mortgage

Mort Gauge

Mortification Gauge

How much longer before it is paid off?
And then how long until you are dead?

See - it all works the same way
Especially when you use numbers as quantifiers rather than qualifiers!


BTW- I have way too many brain cells as it is

Sometimes destruction is creation!
And other times, creation is destruction!

Just like when God split Atom.

Originally posted by UnrealZA
Good question. The answer is in searching the Scriptures for an area where God grants us and angels "free will". Can you find it?

Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
~Deuteronomy 11:26

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by UnrealZA
Good question. The answer is in searching the Scriptures for an area where God grants us and angels "free will". Can you find it?

Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
~Deuteronomy 11:26

Are you serious here? I mean how on earth can you read that passage....oh wait, yeah you don't read the Scriptures within their context. Sorry bout that.

Well for all those others who happen to be reading along I'll give the fuller context where that passage is found and to the person who seeks to use sound reason and logic they will see it has nothing to do with "free will" but rather a warning.

Deut 11:22-28
22 "For if you are careful to keep all this commandment which I am commanding you to do, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all His ways and hold fast to Him,

23 then the LORD will drive out all these nations from before you, and you will dispossess nations greater and mightier than you.

24 "Every place on which the sole of your foot treads shall be yours; your border will be from the wilderness to Lebanon, and from the river, the river Euphrates, as far as the western sea.

25 "No man will be able to stand before you; the LORD your God will lay the dread of you and the fear of you on all the land on which you set foot, as He has spoken to you.

26 "See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse:

27 the blessing, if you listen to the commandments of the LORD your God, which I am commanding you today;

28 and the curse, if you do not listen to the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside from the way which I am commanding you today, by following other gods which you have not known.
NASU


Now notice how verses 27 and 28 give us the CONTEXTUAL meaning of verse 26? It's self explanatory if one cares to read the Bible using proper hermeneutics.

Also, if this passage were describing "free will" does it then mean that Adam and Eve had no free will for this incident in Deut. 11:26 has taken place hundreds of years AFTER Adam. Also if this is about free will then where is the mention of angels?

So again, this passage has nothing at all to do with God granting man "free will".

Yet I know the reply....."This passage is describing that the people did have a choice, also known as "free will" in that they could either listen to God and be blessed or disobey Him and be cursed!"

Sure, they could either obey or disobey and we would see that as free will BUT what this does not take into account or acknowledge is that God ALREADY KNEW what their choice would be for He predestined it. It is God who "brings them" into the land.

Deut 11:29
29 "It shall come about, when the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, that you shall place the blessing on Mount Gerizim and the curse on Mount Ebal.
NASU


God is not just 50% Sovereign but rather 100% Sovereign over all His Creation, if not He would not be God. He is Absolutely Sovereign.