A Theological View of Sin

Sin is a word that brings many things to mind and never anything resulting in some good. Sin is defined as any wrong or unmoral thing. A total abomination of good and things that is right. Sin and evil are matched the most. Sin is of the devil, ever since the beginning man. Adam and Eve first sinned against God, thus giving all the sin for ever.

The Bible views sin as a crime against God and has nothing to do with God and sin together. Sin is against the Law, and therefore wrong. Sin is a violation, an offense to all good, to all the Law. Sin is any way you see it or understand it to be wrong. Sin will never be good nor will it ever earn peace and excellent grade in life. Sin is easily understood as when you do something wrong against the Bible as the Law, it is a sin.

All people are born with sin in there life. It is intrinsic to everyone, passed down from person to person. A cause for an effect, every baby is a sinner just as the next person. Sin is the flesh and ability to go against what is correct. All of man has a sinful nature embedded within him. Everyone is a sinner, even if you believe you never have sinned, you are always a sinner and have been a sinner.

Man always sins and it’s either physically or mentally. Sinful thoughts will cloud a mans mind and keep from real truth. If even you think a sinful thought you have committed it. Sin can overwhelm any soul any person even knowing the right and doing the opposite will fall within sin. Sin is all covering of any wrong. There is no escape, if you do something wrong it will be a sin.

Through the acts of sin you will endure guilt and pain of doing wrong. Through sin, man is fallen short of Gods glory. Through Guilt there is blameworthiness and obligation to have remission of the guilt. Sin has no good within it, but it appeals to man as an easy way out of working for something good; fast and easy fun and than to suffer the guilt of sin.

Sin was originated long before man was made. Satan was an angel that was cast down from heaven for evil thoughts towards God; this bringing about all sin in the universe. Satan convinced Eve to go against God resulting in mans nature of sin and sin on the earth.
Through sin comes, depravity, a means that man has no good, no help or hope. Separation from God comes from the sin with man, and there is no hope of peace with God due to this; giving mans a passage to hell for all of his sins. Gods will judge man for his sins and there no escaping the power of Gods ruling over sin. There is a sin however which is worst sin, talked about by Paul and John in the Bible as the unpardonable sin. This is highly disputed and there is not a definite. The sin could be not accepting the only forgiveness for sins as Jesus Christ for all mans sins.

Sin holds its own set of punishment and standard of ruling. As sin is wicked and ensnares anyone to bring punishment upon him. Sin will cause harm to you, others and God. God hates sin and despises us to have it. Because of sin there is pain and death. If there was no sin there would be no hurt or sacrifice for man. Sin is held as a possible root of a basic something, but never fully looked upon as a possibility. Sin is all the same, and never is worse or better. There are sins that are understood and specified. There can be basic sins which distort the life of God and us. The desires that hurt you or a relationship and God will hurt you. It is only a definition of wrong sin.

Sin is differed to be measured by God and man. Man will measure sins as not so bad to good sins. All sins are going to be punished, being a sinner you will receive the same thing as everyone, death and hell. Sinning more or less will not help nor hurt. Sinning more though will make it harder for you top overcome and be on track with Christ and life with Him. Grace is given by God, and love is given by Him for all to receive. Sin will separate man from this and life eternally with God. Guilt will be heavier through either sin, worse or not. Sins following each generation give man a less burden of wrong and toleration of these sins make it worse and worse for God to reach the lost.

But the reality is: God no longer measures our sins; He 'remembers them no more.'

So we need to let the idea go, too and just love one another without fear and the anxiety that comes from the naggy thoughts of sin - what is it - did I do it...etc.

God bless you!

Originally posted by queenannie38
God no longer measures our sins; He 'remembers them no more.'

God no longer remembers your sin ONLY if you believe that Jesus Christ (Yeshua Bar Yusef to be correct, or is Bar Yahweh?) was the Son of God and that he died for your sins. Not everyone makes that leap of faith unfortunately.

Originally posted by ragster
All people are born with sin in there life. It is intrinsic to everyone, passed down from person to person. A cause for an effect, every baby is a sinner just as the next person. Sin is the flesh and ability to go against what is correct. All of man has a sinful nature embedded within him. Everyone is a sinner, even if you believe you never have sinned, you are always a sinner and have been a sinner.

Therefore from this statement, jesus would have be born a sinner as he would have a percentage of his mothers sinful blood in him.


G

That's basically it, yes. But no one wants to admit that - then they would have to admit there is NO perfection just be 'believing' in someone supposedly perfect from birth.

It makes perfect sense to me:

After all - does a good father make his son start at the bottom rung of the family business and work his way up, for his own good as well as the estate? Or does he let him butt in at the top with no knowledge gained or experience to temper wisdom? How can one teach another one that which he has never, himself, had any experience with at all?

Originally posted by queenannie38
But the reality is: God no longer measures our sins; He 'remembers them no more.'

So we need to let the idea go, too and just love one another without fear and the anxiety that comes from the naggy thoughts of sin - what is it - did I do it...etc.

God bless you!

Yeah actually..

John 5:22
Christ is qualified to be the Judge of all mankind. Through CHRIST, man is judged by one of his own. Jesus said, "The Father judges NO ONE, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son.

Christ is the acceptance and understanding of all things (it is a PROGRAM of thought)
The Father is the flesh/body, which is the vehicle of thought.. So that sentence is correct, the Father judges NO ONE, it is the SON (the THOUGHT) inside of us.
Christ is a particular TYPE of thought.. which is the acceptance and understanding of all things.


psalms 82:6
You are 'gods'; you are all sons of the Most High

phil. 2:6-8
Christ, being in very nature GOD, did not consider equality with GOD something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being FOUND in appearance AS A MAN, he humbled HIMSELF and became obedient to death - even death on a cross!

We were born into sin, because we were born into a neuro-net ...

engraphed into another neuro-net and eventually we adapt and create our own unique neuro-net... (we call it 'growing up') .. based on the perceptions of the past and present we were programmed with from birth.

Christ died for us all - as a redemption for our sins...

Oh, and jesus sure as heck didn't think kids were born with origional sin... as he had strong ideas about their status and protectiveness towards them...


I'm not having a dig at you ragster, far from it, but i think that the concept of origional sin is utter total b#######. Sorry, i really feel extremely strongly about that stupid and ignorant concept ..... If kiddies were such bad sinners, how come jesus again and again issued such protective statements regarding their special status??

Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght
Christ died for us all - as a redemption for our sins...

Oh, and jesus sure as heck didn't think kids were born with origional sin... as he had strong ideas about their status and protectiveness towards them...


I'm not having a dig at you ragster, far from it, but i think that the concept of origional sin is utter total b#######. Sorry, i really feel extremely strongly about that stupid and ignorant concept .....

If kiddies were such bad sinners, how come jesus again and again issued such protective statements regarding their special status??

because a childs neuro-net isn't yet fully formed.. to hold them ..

Ragster, I do however have a query about these two sentences...

"a sinner you will receive the same thing as everyone, death and hell. Sinning more or less will not help nor hurt."

??? Dude, I'm lost to that concept....sinning more or less won't hurt?? ummm... ok i'll admit i'm having a hard time figuring that one out....so your saying that a kiddie who steals a 2 penny sweet is viewed in Gods eyes as same as some one who murders a man in Gods eyes?? no way - I cannot for one second believe that - no way.

Sinners ... Jesus came to save sinners, and a sinner can repent and save themselves through actions words and deeds.... Jesus himeself said he didn't come for the blameless but for the sinner.... If you do some thing wrong, and realise it, you can ask for forgiveness - God and Jesus will know if in your heart your sorry for what you have done...... Not hell for all and every sinner... because then heaven would be empty - there would be NO human souls in heaven. No one, not even Popes and the like could get in if ALL sinners went to hell...we all sin at some point..


Ragster, can i ask which Church / belief system you follow? because its so far from mine that I cannot reconcile myself with any of your views... and more study and thought is needed on my side to see if I can find out for myself from what angle your coming from.

Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght
Ragster, I do however have a query about these two sentences...

"a sinner you will receive the same thing as everyone, death and hell. Sinning more or less will not help nor hurt."

??? Dude, I'm lost to that concept....sinning more or less won't hurt?? ummm... ok i'll admit i'm having a hard time figuring that one out....so your saying that a kiddie who steals a 2 penny sweet is viewed in Gods eyes as same as some one who murders a man in Gods eyes?? no way - I cannot for one second believe that - no way.

Sinners ... Jesus came to save sinners, and a sinner can repent and save themselves through actions words and deeds.... Jesus himeself said he didn't come for the blameless but for the sinner.... If you do some thing wrong, and realise it, you can ask for forgiveness - God and Jesus will know if in your heart your sorry for what you have done...... Not hell for all and every sinner... because then heaven would be empty - there would be NO human souls in heaven. No one, not even Popes and the like could get in if ALL sinners went to hell...we all sin at some point..


Ragster, can i ask which Church / belief system you follow? because its so far from mine that I cannot reconcile myself with any of your views... and more study and thought is needed on my side to see if I can find out for myself from what angle your coming from.

yeh actually you are right to a degree..
GOD as humanities entire thoughts doesn't deem a child stealing a 2cent candy as badly as a murderer, even a child murderer. But GOD as humanities entire thoughts does still consider it bad, hence the parents scolding the child
Jesus won't know anything.. he sacrificed himself as flesh, to raise himself as Spirit...
Spirit is THOUGHT
To ask GOD for forgiveness is to ask humanity for mercy and forgiveness, unfortunately man-kind is not ready to forgive people.. so it appears GOD judges people..
The Son is within you... that is... Christ, and that is the acceptance and understanding of all things... so YES Christ will know you are 'sorry' ..
Hell is a state we put ourselves in thru thought.
Heaven is a state we put ourselves in thru thought.

Originally posted by shihulud

Therefore from this statement, jesus would have be born a sinner as he would have a percentage of his mothers sinful blood in him.


G

I have heard this a couple of times and one time within the last month at a Bible study. Sin is passed on through a person's father. That is why the virgin birth of Jesus is important, He didn't have an earthly father who passed along sin to Him, His Father is God. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, therefore He was/is without sin and could be the Perfect Sacrifice.

and i go back to my origional thoughts....

Jesus, clearly, time and time again stated that children have special protected status within Heaven and god's eyes....

it goes some thing along the lines that to even harm a hair on a childs head would get a worse punishment for a man than those in soddom and gommorah...

Nope. i think origional sin is man made BS.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by shihulud

Therefore from this statement, jesus would have be born a sinner as he would have a percentage of his mothers sinful blood in him.


G

I have heard this a couple of times and one time within the last month at a Bible study. Sin is passed on through a person's father. That is why the virgin birth of Jesus is important, He didn't have an earthly father who passed along sin to Him, His Father is God. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, therefore He was/is without sin and could be the Perfect Sacrifice.

and this correlates to my explanation of the infinity symbol..

compared to the infinity symbol:
a mother is seen as a beginning...

and without the father, the beginning of one would not be compared against the end of the other...
and the end of one would not be compared to the beginning of the other.

another interesting thing to note ..
(this was on Daily Planet, on discovery channel) ..

Only men are influenced by pheromones from sweat, to make them act in a different way...
they put some pheromones on plastic slides and taped them to bathroom stall doors, only one of the slides actually had pheromones..
They found that men avoided the stall that had the pheromones on the door (almost like a marked territory) .. women were uneffected by the pheromones..
so pheromones effect women differently than men..
In a sense it is saying that Jesus was born with a 'human' mothers beginning and end, that was connected (as the infinity symbol) to GODs beginning and end... (the alpha and omega).....

I'm sure I could have wrote this more practically and easy to understand but I'm sure you get the idea ..

[edit on 11/21/2006 by PuRe EnErGy]

Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght
Ragster, I do however have a query about these two sentences...

"a sinner you will receive the same thing as everyone, death and hell. Sinning more or less will not help nor hurt."

??? Dude, I'm lost to that concept....sinning more or less won't hurt?? ummm... ok i'll admit i'm having a hard time figuring that one out....so your saying that a kiddie who steals a 2 penny sweet is viewed in Gods eyes as same as some one who murders a man in Gods eyes?? no way - I cannot for one second believe that - no way.

Sinners ... Jesus came to save sinners, and a sinner can repent and save themselves through actions words and deeds.... Jesus himeself said he didn't come for the blameless but for the sinner.... If you do some thing wrong, and realise it, you can ask for forgiveness - God and Jesus will know if in your heart your sorry for what you have done...... Not hell for all and every sinner... because then heaven would be empty - there would be NO human souls in heaven. No one, not even Popes and the like could get in if ALL sinners went to hell...we all sin at some point..


Ragster, can i ask which Church / belief system you follow? because its so far from mine that I cannot reconcile myself with any of your views... and more study and thought is needed on my side to see if I can find out for myself from what angle your coming from.

Hey that is a good question, and I will address a couple of things, for religion I have none, I just truly believe the truth and that is all, and I believe the entire Bible as in the King James Version.

I do see that you believe works and sins are a huge part in your life, and i truly respect that, but that is where we will most likely hit heads, so I ask that we can keep it pretty cool, but able to understand each others view points and beliefs.

First

??? Dude, I'm lost to that concept....sinning more or less won't hurt?? ummm... ok i'll admit i'm having a hard time figuring that one out....so your saying that a kiddie who steals a 2 penny sweet is viewed in Gods eyes as same as some one who murders a man in Gods eyes?? no way - I cannot for one second believe that - no way.

In this gesture I was merely trying to explain in a figure of speech, and I should have been more simple about explaining this for it came off a different way. But that is great thing, from what you got to from that is a great question, and ill get to that next. But for the part where, it will "nor hurt" I meant as in, it will not hurt the situation, not physically hurt you as a person, ex=hell and etc...
The thing you did though get to that the view of a child, and a child who steals compared to a person who kills. Now you must understand I wrote this based on the Bible for that I will explain the reason why a child is the same as a person, no matter the age, but then I will explain the view of the age of accountability.

In Romans 3:23, It says

"For all have sinned and have fall the glory of God".

See the thing I hate a lot is just the mere problem with this in a whole, in that how a we all are sinners even a child. I think its crazy that this verse could be used in such a way to place on all people even children, but it is and happens all the time. But now I will try and explain to you why a child is just as much in sin as another person.

In the verse Romans 3:23, its states all people are sinners, that being all people have sin, sin with in them all of everyone, babies, children, teenagers, and adults there is no way around that. Then the verse continues to say, that they have "fall short the glory of God" this being broken down, is that to fall short, is to not make the cut be separated and never connected. And for the "Glory of God" this being with God, in heaven, free from sin.
Now this verse in it self explained makes enough sense, believable or not, that is what the truth is for many people. It does not have to be the truth for you, but for those who believe it is everything.

The next logical question to come to mind is that of a child, a simple little child, not knowing what is best or what is right. But right there is the explanation in its self, a child who knows no better, could never held accountable for sin. But the Bible never says a child that knows no better is born without sin. But the Bible does say we are with sin, and for that we are born in sin, all the way from Adam & Eve. For some religions will greatly differ on the age of accountability, and there is nothing wrong with that except this one verse, Romans 3:23.

so your saying that a kiddie who steals a 2 penny sweet is viewed in Gods eyes as same as some one who murders a man in Gods eyes?? no way - I cannot for one second believe that - no way.

But then what about this, "is stealing actually worse than murder?" in our life, in this world, yes it is. See the thing is that humans will never be able to comprehend is way God views sin, no matter how much it is explained there will never be a total explanation or understanding of the truth of why or what Gods views sin as. But for that the Bible will gives truth about this very subject in

Romans 6:23, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gist of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Now in explaining this verse I hope you can understand where I am coming from.

In the verse it says "the wages of sin" now we all know what wages are, the true reason why it was used was that of the wages of a person in that time, wages were a significant part in everyones life and it was very practical to use to help everyone understand what sin offers us humans. As sin is the total separation from God, we earned this... Hold on! wait??? Earned??? Yea I know I like do not agree with this either at first, but then looking upon the truth of what the Bible says, man is from Adam who sinned and forever passed sin down to all off everyone. The sin in my heart was the same as anyone even Hitler. Did you know God views Hitlers heart and my heart the same, we both have sinned, no matter that if I have mass genocide or not, I am the same as him, but in society that is not true. That will never be true and is just stupid. But that is in our life, a sin filled life, that will never be able to comprehend the total truth of Gods view of sin.
So if I earned sin from Adam, which is totally not my fault, than what do I do, I have nothing as a matter of fact, I am what you would say, messed up. But the verse continues to say, "but" the biggest word in this verse, saying that no matter what has just been said, there is something else most likely going to disprove it. And it does "but.. the Gift of God is eternal life" right there you see there is grace given by God to all sinners, young and old. It is the Gift of eternal life, and in that you find salvation from sin, through "Christ Jesus". Now Jesus was in the Bible, and He was just no ordinary prophet like in Islam or Judaism, He was the One, The Holy and Acceptable Sacrifice for all of man. Now the thing is that was brought up earlier is that of this-

Therefore from this statement, jesus would have be born a sinner as he would have a percentage of his mothers sinful blood in him.

O yes now this is a truly deep question indeed, now see I will not try and prove to you how God can fertilize a baby in a womb without a human a egg, cause that is just something that in unbelievable, and unprovable so why try.
But I can try to explain through the Bible which you can believe or not, but this is what I have based this on, that Jesus no matter being born from a woman in sin, but that the reason Christ was a perfect sacrifice was that Christ lived His entire life committed not one sin. In the Bible Jesus is the only person ever to be labeled as the Lamb of God. This can be quiet confusing especially if it seems that Jesus was an animal which he was not, but going back into the old testament will explain this.
In the old testament, the way any human could ever be cleaned from there sins is that of a sacrifice, but not just any sacrifice it had to be of blood, of the most pure blood of an animal.

Exodus 29:38-42

38 "This is what you are to offer on the altar regularly each day: two lambs a year old.
39 Offer one in the morning and the other at twilight.
40 With the first lamb offer a tenth of an ephah of fine flour mixed with a quarter of a hin of oil from pressed olives, and a quarter of a hin of wine as a drink offering.
41 Sacrifice the other lamb at twilight with the same grain offering and its drink offering as in the morning—a pleasing aroma, an offering made to the LORD by fire.

42 "For the generations to come this burnt offering is to be made regularly at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting before the LORD. There I will meet you and speak to you;

The speculation now for many people is that God truly had planned this all out, ever since Adam and Eve were created, God knew they would sin, and for that sin there would have to be remission of sins, and for that the animal sacrifices offered that. But it was these sacrifices that brought way for Jesus being the ultimate Sacrifice. In 1 Peter 1:18-20

18For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers,
19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.
20He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

These verses explain the truth about who Jesus was, and that to the utmost importance that no thing of this world, the world in sin will never be able to get anyone into heaven.

I will continue to talk about the Original sin and other subjects... (I am out of room)

So then we find ourselves questioning the Original sin, and it seems this is a most confusing subject.

I again will be pulling my resources from the Bible.
Romans 5:12-14 and 5:19

12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned
13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.

In the Bible verses Romans 5:12-14 and 5:19 it shows a complete explanation of the original of why man destiny is born to hell.
In this it tells that sin came into "the world through man" Death=sin it says. But here is the significance of how and why the original sin is everyones sin. "and in this way, death came to all men"
It explains everything there in it self. Death through sin came to all men.

Even King David recognized the truth of his sin.
Psalm 51:5

Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

So this is all what each person wants to take, all this information is completely absolute and subjective. It is the truth I have, but life is relative and any belief is objective, so feel free to say whatever this is just what have truly found.

[edit on 21-11-2006 by ragster]

Originally posted by queenannie38
But the reality is: God no longer measures our sins; He 'remembers them no more.'

So we need to let the idea go, too and just love one another without fear and the anxiety that comes from the naggy thoughts of sin - what is it - did I do it...etc.

God bless you!

The reality is that your statement is in error. Your no better than Satan telling Eve she won't die.

So God no longer remembers our sin? From what Scripture did you twist that out of? Oh I forgot, you don't need Scripture....cept the ones you can butcher.

Originally posted by shihulud

Originally posted by ragster
All people are born with sin in there life. It is intrinsic to everyone, passed down from person to person. A cause for an effect, every baby is a sinner just as the next person. Sin is the flesh and ability to go against what is correct. All of man has a sinful nature embedded within him. Everyone is a sinner, even if you believe you never have sinned, you are always a sinner and have been a sinner.

Therefore from this statement, jesus would have be born a sinner as he would have a percentage of his mothers sinful blood in him.


G

The Scripture paraphrased states that "all men have sinned" and if Jesus were ONLY man then yes, He would also be a sinner. This though is not what the Hypostatic union means or states. Jesus, in order to be fully human, would have to have been born of a man and a woman but because Jesus, who is God, took on flesh, He had no need for a physical father. Mary only provided a flesh body for God to dwell in.

God took on flesh, a second nature, yet He was and is still fully God and God knows no sin. Evil is a LACK of good and God is the very essence of "good". Fully God and fully man, the "God-Man".

Originally posted by queenannie38
That's basically it, yes. But no one wants to admit that - then they would have to admit there is NO perfection just be 'believing' in someone supposedly perfect from birth.

It makes perfect sense to me:

After all - does a good father make his son start at the bottom rung of the family business and work his way up, for his own good as well as the estate? Or does he let him butt in at the top with no knowledge gained or experience to temper wisdom? How can one teach another one that which he has never, himself, had any experience with at all?

Using this sound logic Jesus had to be a bi-sexual, murdering-child molesting-lying fornicating-thief! Afterall, He needed the experience, right?

Since Jesus is God He, in the nature of God, knows all things.

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy

Originally posted by queenannie38
But the reality is: God no longer measures our sins; He 'remembers them no more.'

So we need to let the idea go, too and just love one another without fear and the anxiety that comes from the naggy thoughts of sin - what is it - did I do it...etc.

God bless you!

Yeah actually..

John 5:22
Christ is qualified to be the Judge of all mankind. Through CHRIST, man is judged by one of his own. Jesus said, "The Father judges NO ONE, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son.

Christ is the acceptance and understanding of all things (it is a PROGRAM of thought)
The Father is the flesh/body, which is the vehicle of thought.. So that sentence is correct, the Father judges NO ONE, it is the SON (the THOUGHT) inside of us.
Christ is a particular TYPE of thought.. which is the acceptance and understanding of all things.


psalms 82:6
You are 'gods'; you are all sons of the Most High

phil. 2:6-8
Christ, being in very nature GOD, did not consider equality with GOD something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being FOUND in appearance AS A MAN, he humbled HIMSELF and became obedient to death - even death on a cross!

That's not an exegesis of Scripture but rather a raping of Scripture, pure and total eisogesis. In other words your interpretation is self-imposed, you have placed a foreign meaning to those Scriptures.

The Psalm passage is speaking of earthly judges, not that we are literal gods. God gave to mankind the ability to JUDGE people of their crimes and if need be sentance them to death. In this way or in this aspect they are viewed as "gods" for only God is in control of ones life. A PROPER reading of this passage tells us that literal gods is not what God is speaking of because God goes on to say that even though He has called them "gods", "They shall die like men"......as in just like the men they truly are.

Your Phillipians passage is perhaps one of the most powerful evidences for Jesus being God Incarnate and because of that I have no idea why you would seek to use it in such a way as to try and prove otherwise.